Q&A: Former H&F Associate
I completed an associate stint at H&F a couple of years ago. This site was extremely helpful to me while in college so hopefully I can return the favor for some of you today!
1. Was it worth it? Had an IB colleague of mine join and know its a grind. Can you provide context in hours depending on deal or not? Weekdays and weekend if there was any division? How were people above you in terms of interaction (decent people)?
2. Whats comp usually post H&F for HF exits or PE? Did you stay in PE?
3. How far ahead did doing an associate stint put you relative to other associates?
4. Finally, was business school (presumably HBS or GSB) worth it from a career perspective (not social)?
Thanks for sharing. No longer relevant for me but I find it interesting
I liked the people that I worked with, but disliked the experience. Looking back it was worth it and I do believe that I learned far more relative to my associate friends at other shops. In terms of exits, I don't think doing an associate stint at H&F vs any other good to decent megafund provides a noticeable shift in quality of exits.
I opted to go to HF after H&F, but I have friends to moved to different megafunds or went to bschool. Not sure about PE comp, but the HF numbers that I saw ranged from 400-500k.
Thank you!
Just saw that you edited your comment, will answer your remaining questions.
Hours ranged from 80-100, 90+ was the norm.
I did not apply for business school, but H&F has fantastic placement into both HBS and GSB. From a career perspective, I don't think it provides the stereotypical H&F associate profile with significantly more upside (taking opportunity cost into account) than simply exiting from PE, but then again, I didn't go to bschool.
Can you maybe share an idea of the salaries of mds there? Net worths if possible i have offers from one other family office in london.
From both your personal H&F experience, H&F colleagues, and other PE friends - how did you eventually decide to make the jump to HF? Why HF?
How hard would it have been to get promoted at H&F, or other MFs that you have contacts? Is PE too crowded up top now, and was that a factor in leaving, even at H&F, one of the most lucrative top spots in PE?
My goal was always HF even prior to working in PE (due to a combination of lifestyle, stimulation, etc). It's quite challenging to make the jump to an SM, even from H&F, but you just have to be persistent and somewhat lucky (in the sense of a spot opening up).
It is very hard to get promoted, in my class there were only 1-2 who were offered promos. I think it's definitely easier to leave H&F for another fund and aim to climb the ladder there. At H&F, you don't necessarily leave, you're essentially pushed out after your associate stint.
Thanks! Super helpful and on a similar path (ignore title).
Do you think the incredibly hard promotion was a function of H&F, or just MF PE in general? I’m also an MFPE associate, and soon to approach that 4 YoE crossroads of whether I should: try to stick around and get promoted, switch to another firm, leave to HF, B-School, and so many more options.
What type of HF are sought after for H&F associates. Do pod shops have any traction at all?
When you say it's quite challenging to make the jump to an SM, how long was your recruiting process for HF from initial prep to getting your current offer? Any advice for current PE assos looking to make the transition to HF?
Within H&F, did it really seem like most associates were from MBB or MS/GS/EVR? Were there investors from Laz/Moelis/PWP or JPM?
Most were from MBB and GS/MS/EVR as you said, but I also saw Lazard RX and PJT RSSG. The rest were all one-offs, if any.
Were all of the ASOs at H&F from MS coming out of their M&A group, or were there other groups with a presence?
1. H&F appears to be very pedigree-focused and cookie-cutter in its approach to U.S. associate recruiting. Do they offer interviews to candidates who do not come from traditional backgrounds (i.e., target school, BB, EB, MBB)? If not, what would you recommend for someone from a nontraditional background to stand out, aside from lateraling?
2. Are there any differences between the SF and NY offices in terms of culture or industry focus?
Speaking frankly, I think it's essentially impossible unless you fit the 'traditional' H&F background. All of the associates in my class fit that bill, and I think it's still the same now.
No difference in culture, SF is the HQ and the associate program is generalist so the experience is mostly consistent across both U.S. offices. The SF office does have a larger focus on tech, however.
How, if at all, did H&F help you get your next position? Did they provide significant help to all the assoc that they didn’t get the promote?
Can you talk about any office politics / deal politics? Thanks!
Yes, H&F does help associates with finding another position (to some extent) if they decide not to go to bschool. This means connecting you with other funds, letting you take time to interview at other places, writing stellar recs, etc.
My associate class was quite tight-knit in a 'we're all in this together' sense, so there wasn't too much competition among associates. I don't want to speak on specific deals / people because I'd be identifiable.
Seems like you didn’t enjoy / disliked the experience. Any specific reason that you can talk about?
Interview tips?
Don't have any tips that are unique. Just make sure to get tons of reps in (mock interviews), overprepare, and match your interviewer's tone/style.
Thanks! As a follow up, I’ve heard their interviews are more consulting case heavy, how do you recommend you prepare for those?
At what point did you start to get into investing (university clubs?) and what are some good beginner resources that helped you think beyond simply financial statements, but about companies as an investor.
I started getting involved with finance-related clubs during my freshman year in college. The biggest thing that helped me learn while in college more than anything was reading books on investing/finance/economics/global business (I'd read ~4 books a month).
Any book recs?
Book recs?
Do you have any #s for Principal comp (cash + carry)?
Don't have exact figures so don't take my word for it 100%, but from what I've heard / estimating, base is ~$900k-$1mm+ and carry is in the $5-6mm range.
Would you say that’s the typical range for private (not publicly traded) MF VP/Principal level folks?
Any idea for what H&F pays Directors? Believe the title progression at H&F goes associate > principal > director > partner. Thanks for doing this!
Just wanted to clarify something. You also said that the title sequence at Hellman was associate (no senior associate?)--> principal--> director-->MD. So you're saying you started at $300k as a 1st year associate, and after 3 or 4 years, you become a director and make $900k (I'm assuming you meant $900k base + bonus, not just base)?
Couple of questions.
1) what was the typical day in the life like during a deal and when not on a deal i.e. split of work between live deals, reporting, portco work etc.
2) how involved were you on portcos? Did you attend board meetings etc
3) how does your current role in hf compare? Do you enjoy it and what do you prefer about it over pe
thank you for doing this
1) You have zero time for yourself on a life deal, expectation was to be available almost 24/7. When not on a deal, the majority of your time is usually split between conducting diligence / analyses / modeling for an opportunity, portco reporting and management, writing memos, attending calls, etc (not too much time is spent sourcing). The DD doesn't get too annoying until it makes it past our initial review, then we dive into every minute detail, doc, risk, data point, etc while informing our model assumptions. There's also quite a bit of traveling involved.
2) Very involved compared to other megafunds, and I observed on a few boards. H&F is great in the regard that they teach you about working with senior management early in your career.
3) My current role is equally high stress, but the hours are better and the culture is less aggressive. I prefer it to PE because of the higher degree of autonomy, more 'intellectual' work (that I find fulfilling), and having a flexible/predictable schedule. Having a flatter org structure (w/ less politics) is a nice bonus as well.
Appreciate it and sorry for the follow up. On the initial opportunity review, was that just a basic model, some expert calls etc I.e. very high level or was that also more involved?
Did you prep at all between your IB stint and starting Pe?
Yes I did
How?
what was the first month like, while you were onboarding into the PE gig, versus say 1 year in when you had a better feel for things? Would be appreciated if you could address both the work responsibilities and the stress angles
Major imposter syndrome in the first month. Started to feel comfortable managing multiple workstreams about 4-5 months into the job. The primary difference in work responsibilities moving from IB was that PE was simply more cerebral, and having to 'think' while sleep deprived and having 10 things on your plate was overwhelming. In my first few months, I was assigned tasks that I had absolutely no idea on how to do, but by the fourth time it became muscle memory. You're also frequently given work when you're already busy with other assignments all due in a very short time frame, which made me feel like I was 'sinking' sometimes. A few other bad aspects were having to create models that were 20 times more complex than necessary, spending your weekend conducting exhaustive DD to get the opportunity ripped apart in IC, getting an email at 1 AM about projections from 2 nonsensical scenarios that a senior wants modelled that end up going nowhere.
What was all-in associate comp? Also, how much carry did partners have?
A bit above 300k cash excluding shadow carry which you're never seeing. Don't know how much carry partners had but know it is extremely variable.
What even is this “shadow carry” you speak of?
Will be answering all new questions tomorrow or the day after, don’t have time today!
What type of funds do H&F ASO even consider to lateral to
I did not try to lateral but the opportunities for those who go to neither bschool or hf are extensive. You can get interviews at MFs, UMMs, MMs, essentially almost anywhere you'd like. As for where associates 'considered' lateraling to, it just depends on their preferences. It's generally MF/UMM though since the burned out associates would rather go to bschool and recruit afterwards than go to a chill MM.
Where did most others in your class end up who wanted to stay in PE but weren’t promoted? Did they end up at UMM/MM shops with upward mobility?
A large portion went to bschool, and many others went to MF/UMM funds.
Did those that lateraled to other MF/UMM funds have any success in climbing the ranks there?
Thanks for doing this Q&A. What do you think differentiated the 1-2 in your class who were promoted? When did they know that they were getting promoted?
Don't want to share identifiable specifics, but they were well liked by seniors, actively took on more responsibility while keeping their existing work from degrading in quality, etc. They were also just all-around great associates and intelligent investors. One other thing to consider is that many associates don't actually want to stay, and the ones who did want to stay were more proactive in their approach. I don't know when they were told, but I found out close to the end of my second year.
Does the interview process differ for bankers vs consultants? Thanks
Nope
How would you describe H&F’s investment strategy? Value or growth oriented?
They paid close to 50x for Zendesk, wot do u think?
sup dawg
Growth
Could you describe how the shadow carry and co-invest works for associates? (And ballpark ranges of each if you can provide that info)
Shadow carry is in the 150-200k range, but it doesn't matter at the associate level since you're never touching it
Curious to hear about your experience in HF? How are you liking it vs. H&F and what kind of setup is it? How do you think about the long-term career arc at a HF vs. PE?
See above response for why I prefer it to H&F. The fund is an SM, won't get any more specific to keep myself unidentifiable. Both HF and PE have their pros and cons, but the best way to decide is to do what you're better at / fit better with from a personality standpoint and you'll get paid accordingly. The risks regarding HFs are overblown and PE, believe it or not, is not as 'risk-free' as people make it out to be. I'm happy to answer any specific questions you have about HFs but will be vague regarding my own fund.
How does recruiting for PE to SMHF work?
Can you elaborate on the overblown risks re: HF? There is a very long thread in the HF forum about other people with similar backgrounds (MFPE) who have progressed further down that career path and have regretted it. I personally have a very similar background, went into HFs, and am now seriously trying to go back.
I think there are structural issues with HFs (lack of transferable skill set, you live and die on your yearly P&L, etc.) along with a shrinking of "good seats" in HF - stuff that is stable, good upside, low turnover, decent WLB... the lack of a real moat around the business is very stressful and success feels like a continual knife fight unless you are at a Pershing / Soroban / etc.
Any advice on how to be a great private equity associate? Any resources you would recommend to prepare for the more advanced technical aspects of the job between banking and private equity.
Know anyone still there? What’s the mood music? Seems like the last 2-3 funds are uncharacteristically struggling quite a lot — has this had negative knock effects or people keeping their heads cool?
How did you prep to make the transition easier between IB and PE?
What were some of the hardest things to learn once you hit the desk (e.g., modeling, advanced accounting, stakeholder mgmt., etc)?
Comparison of H&F tech to other tech funds (i.e. TB, Vista, FP, SLP)
Did anyone leave H&F without something lined up? Know about the Charisma on Command dude
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