1st year at BB (citi/bofa) in coverage looking to break into Apollo or KKR. I went to a non target (within top 50) with 3.9 GPA and 31 ACT. Don't really have connections at either firm, but I am hungry and a top performer at my current bank. Is this possible with my stats? How does a MF process work vs a MM?
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Comments (78)
I know someone who went to apollo from penn state lol
For PE or to answer the phones?
to make your mom whole
PE
Know someone who got into Apollo from a non target but worked at Goldman
Relatively low ACT for this industry. Non-Target. Not top BB. Unless you're black, latino, or a woman, Apollo or KKR are going to be very difficult. If you were at a target and were in levfin/sponsors at Bofa/Citi, I'd say differently. I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm telling you what is realistic and what is not. Going to or not going to Apollo or KKR won't make or break your career and it has nothing to do with how good you are at the job, but it just isn't realistic for your background.
Why does ACT matter? by time I do recruiting that would have been 7-8+ years ago. since when is levfin BofA better than a coverage group?
I'm not saying ACT matters to me, but it matters to most MF/UMM firms and headhunters. I guess it's supposed to demonstrate intelligence or work ethic. I have not worked at BofA but levfin there has consistently good UMM/MF exits.
Would it be beneficial for OP to get MBA from top program?
edit: deleted based on the clarification
to summarize if ur nontarget u must suffer from big dick syndrome and be able to walk me through a lbo if u want to have any chance
i personally know someone at apollo PE who came from Citi/Bofa, but he was at a semi-target
That person was in levfin which I recommended above.
why the MS for this guy? hes just being realistic
overstated optimism gives false hope
People are ignoring the fact that last oncycle apollo gave 6 offers to PJT RX (5 were accepted I believe), 2 from EVR RX, and 2 diversity from EVR M&A. But of course the non-target citi banker has a great chance at Apollo and to say otherwise is rude and wrong! I'm just trying to be honest and I think it's better to tell the truth rather than get someone's hopes up falsely. OP is in a great spot for recruiting for most PE firms including really great UMMs but Apollo is not going to happen.
You should be fine. Your school should not hold you back. You're at a BB doing banking so have proven yourself. Most ppl on wso have no idea what is going on, so I wouldn't let these silly posters discourage you.
EDIT: Who the fuck is giving me MS? I am a former MF guy so I know what I am saying here.
Op here. +1 SB. Appreciate it. Any idea who the headhunters are for MFs?
I did PE at a MF in London. Different recruiters. But most of my buddies did PE at MF in NY. We were all non target graduates (liberal art college graduates)
Back then from what I recall the MF recruiters in the US were Henkel, amity, SG, and oxy moron something. I don't know how these names have changed since then. It's been 9 years
Ratio for Apollo I believe, CPI for other mFs and etc
I've had mixed success with Winston Roark
Imnt OP but since you are a former MF guy can I PM You, I have the same question as OP but wanted to provide you more background info to get your thoughts
You're fine. The more work experience you have the less your school matters. What matters is deal experience and complexity.
I know a guy at Apollo who was as non-target as it gets but he was at PJT
ahah just when i thought i had some hope, then u said "PJT"
i personally know someone at apollo PE who came from Citi/Bofa, but he was at a semi-target
There's partners at Centerview that went to ok schools - at least one, prolly more I don't spend time physically looking everyone up on Linkedin. I don't think it matters if you show up, consistent, smart, trusted all those qualities. Moelis has senior people from regular schools. I haven't found any non traditionals at PWP but there may be a few. I know these are EB and Apollo is private equity but just in general not focusing on the school you have a chance prolly for Apollo and KKR if I had to guess.
I don't think being from a non-target school will be your problem. The problem is your bank tbh. Apollo's most recent generalist class for S'24 is 5 PJT and 4 EVR (I heard about 1 Lazard RX kid potentially but idk if true). I know 2 of the EVR kids are RX and the other 2 are M&A, but those M&A kids are URM. Not to say it's impossible but stats don't weigh in your favor realistically.
Biggest tip I can give is you need to make it in front of Ratio's co-heads (MHB and VQ) and they have to love you or else they're not putting you in front of their #1 client. They are likely your biggest initial hurdle.
Also, assuming that you're going to spend a 3rd year and recruit for S'25, I imagine they're going to want you to have some solid RX deal exposure.
Why the RX focus? Also I thought EVR was generalist
Apollo deals usually deal with a ton of debt / distressed / complex situations, which translates into RX experience being highly valued. Apollo is NOT a typical PE buyout fund by any means. During my interview with them during on cycle, I got absolutely grilled with credit investing technicals lol.
Also, EVR M&A FT hasn't been generalist for like 3 years, and RX is an entirely separate hiring process.
What about JPM/GS at a mid tier coverage group but with non target background
Also curious
It's really hard to say. All depends on if you can get traction with Ratio
do you know how many of the 5 PJT are from RSSG vs M&A?
Not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were mostly RX. They have taken M&A ppl in the last though.
i personally know someone at apollo PE who came from Citi/Bofa, but he was at a semi-target
i personally know someone at apollo PE who came from Citi/Bofa, but he was at a semi-target
The real question is you came to those 2 PE shops by any metric other than "wso prestige ranking".
You wouldn't take an offer from Blackstone? Or Warburg?
Any MF or even UMM is insanely difficult to land a job at. I'm at a UMM now (ignore WSO title) and there's resumes that we don't even interview that come from HYP -> GS/MS/JPM. There's just so many qualified candidates and so few seats.
If you want a big fund, that's understandable and there's probably ~25 funds that are relatively comparable. Maybe 10 are true "MFs" but I promise it's not a meaningful difference. But you can't just pick two of the most selective seats in all of finance and be like "can I get these" when the kid with a 4.0 from Harvard at PJT can't even count on an Apollo offer.
Don't know why you got ms, that's straight fax
Spot on. Also, KKR and APO could not be more different from one another besides being MF/prestigious. At one, you'd be recruiting for generalist "buyout" with a heavy flavor for credit, and another you'd recruit for as an industry specialist focused on more traditional buyout. The experiences would not be remotely similar.
Yup, and the headhunter will see through this. I remember my intro call with Ratio I talked about how I wanted buyout PE and rattled off a few names that fit my interests from their client list. I included Apollo and she cut me off and was like "how does Apollo fit this list at all". I did not get an Apollo look (lol)
RT - at UMM as well. Saw a resume with perfect SAT and SAT IIs across the board they didn't get an interview. The comments on low ACT made me laugh. So much more to the equation. All PE seats are hard to get so setting goal to a specific APO/BX/H&F/LGP/Other Fund most can name is a good way to feel disappointed after getting an objectively great job at any PE shop. The economics work well at any scale. If you want to buy a mega yacht, you'll need to found your own or be a top 1-2 person at a massive fund which is so unlikely even if you are worlds greatest ASO/VP.
People really be optimizing their careers for mega yacht or bust these days
seen some non-targets at Apollo LA. Lot of semi targets too. Main target is Wharton (~50%) but at least in LA apollo seems more diverse in terms of school representation
My question is why anyone would want to work at Apollo. Everyone who I've met who works there seems miserable. And I don't mean relative to "lifestyle LMM" funds, I mean relative to other MFs.
I think amongst MFs, apollo is one of the shops that cares somewhat less about school etc. But as others have said, your bank is going to be your biggest hurdle. Apollo favors boutiques over bulges, especially the 1b bulges like BofA / Citi. It is theoretically possible but your odds aren't great if that's the type of answer you're looking for. I know someone who did get it from a worse bank and non target, but he was also insanely talented and you would recognize it quickly (I don't say that much in this industry, most of us are not that special).
more generally, why Apollo? Seems a bit myopic. It's one fund, and recruiting is so difficult to predict. Even if you were top of your class at HYS at GS/EVR/wherever, I'd tell you that targeting a single mega fund is sorta silly. Most of them are relatively similar, and very few people get more than a couple of MF offers. Apollo is notoriously awful to work at as well.
if I were you, I'd reframe the Q to: can I get a mega fund? The answer is definitely yes. Just work the process hard, prep, and get rid of the attitude that some single fund is some special object.
i personally know someone at apollo PE who came from Citi/Bofa, but he was at a semi-target
I don't think your mediocre college resume matters as much as your current role, which is decent.
So to answer your vague and nebulous question, yes it's possible.And just fyi, the longer you are removed from college, the less people care.
In fact, never once in my life, during an interview, has anyone commented, praised or even cared I went to an Ivy undergrad or mba. They only care where I worked and what I am doing in my current role.
There are UT Austin and A&M grads at apollo. Pretty much says it all. Don't believe the hype
lol those are good schools
With acceptance rates between 30-60%. They are fine, they are not even close to great.
VP at my firm (REPE firm $40B AUM) was previously at Apollo as an associate for a few years. Prior to that he was doing IB at Citi/Bofa/Wells and went to Boston University/Boston College/Northeastern/Tufts
In the process of preparing my resume to apply to Apollo-- any suggestions of how to get in the firm for a non PE role?
howd he get in?
No clue. Must have networked his ass off but just goes to show it's possible
Timebrook investment
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