Criteria for funds to be considered MF, as opposed to MM

Hi all,

Going over a lot of topics in WSO, there are a lot of mentions of MM and MF PE funds. Just curious to hear people' opinions on what classifies funds as MM vs MF? Total AUM? Enterprise value of investment? Equity check size? Size of funds most recently raised?

Thanks!

 
Funniest

MF size is defined by the size of your own firm discounted by 10%

 

I don't think there's really a right or wrong answer. Really probably depends on the perception of the person asking the question. In my mind I would go with latest fund size and if that fund is $2bn or greater. Which means they're probably stroking $50mm to $200mm equity checks for every transaction and there's not many firms who can write an equity check that big for every investment in their fund.

Then again there will be some who disagree with me and that goes back to my original point of the perception of who is asking the question.

 

This stood out to be particularly wrong to me. 2bn seems a little low to qualify as MF, as the funds known to be in the MM (actively advertise themselves to be) like Madison Dearborn, Berkshire, etc. all have larger funds.

Equity checks $50m to $200m with current leverage quantum means enterprise value of $100m to $500m acquisitions. This is straight up MM.

 

Many people think of a core group of funds that were (i) some of the first to crack the $5b mark in a single vehicle dedicated to (ii) a generalist focus (iii) based in America. The consensus seven have been Blackstone, KKR, Apollo, Carlyle, TPG, Warburg, and Bain.

Those three criteria together strike out a lot of the big, credible, established guys that we all respect today. Apax is based in London. Silver Lake and First Reserve are sector-focused. American Securities only raised its first $5b vehicle in 2015. Berkshire, CD&R, LGP, and all the other strong MM firms are only recently cracking fund sizes that long.

On the other hand, there's a line of thought that a single vehicle >$5b makes the firm now a "megafund".

It boils down to the perspective you have. I find that a lot of younger guys who either haven't lived through or studied the history of the industry tend to have a more expansive definition of the term.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

APAE

Many people think of a core group of funds that were (i) some of the first to crack the $5b mark in a single vehicle dedicated to (ii) a generalist focus (iii) based in America. The consensus seven have been Blackstone, KKR, Apollo, Carlyle, TPG, Warburg, and Bain.

Those three criteria together strike out a lot of the big, credible, established guys that we all respect today. Apax is based in London. Silver Lake and First Reserve are sector-focused. American Securities only raised its first $5b vehicle in 2015. Berkshire, CD&R, LGP, and all the other strong MM firms are only recently cracking fund sizes that long.

On the other hand, there's a line of thought that a single vehicle >$5b makes the firm now a "megafund".

It boils down to the perspective you have. I find that a lot of younger guys who either haven't lived through or studied the history of the industry tend to have a more expansive definition of the term.

Based in the us is the dumbest most arbitrary criteria ever lmao. Bain and TPG are has beens also

 

I think this is quite vague to clearly define but I overheard one of my VPs outline as follows:

PE category should be thought of as fund size and equity check size, divided into 6 groups: megafunds, large-cap, upper MM, MM, lower MM, and small-cap.

For MFs level, they should have $10bn+ funds investing globally. They should also have a track record of being able to raise such a fund (so can translate into having 2 or more $10bn funds historically). Now, not every firm is structured as a global fund (Bain, Carlyle for example, but if you add the capital allocated to Europe, NA and Asia, they all add to $10bn+), but this criteria makes sense. Given this, only 10 funds are considered MFs: Advent, Apollo, Bain, CVC, KKR, Silver Lake, Blackstone, Carlyle, TPG and Warburg Pincus. I think most people will generally agree with this list.

For large-cap, you'll have the likes of H&F, Apax, Cinven, EQT, Onex, Vista, Thoma Bravo, Permira, Providence, etc. What separates these guys from MFs is only fund size since they compete directly with MFs on many deals. H&F most recent fund breaks the $10bn mark but since this is their first, we'll have to see how they do but I think they'll be MF in a few years time as well given their excellent returns and ability to raise another fund like the latest.

And finally, what separates large-cap from upper MM is the typical equity check size (does not invest below $200-250m per deal) and more global presence / platform.

 

Think this is a good characterisation, but feels like the legacy factor is a bit overplayed. Similar point to H&F but EQT for example just raised the fourth largest euro-denominated fund ever at 10.75bn - given that they're writing checks mainly in Northern Europe their presence there is definitely that of a megafund.

 

H&F has raised 3 $10B+ funds, with the latest being $24.4B, and there’s articles saying they’re coming to market for a $30B fund. Similarly, Permira is at €16B for the most recent fund and €11B for the one before that, while Apax consistently is in the $10B range ($9.5B and then $11B, with the one they’re raising now targeting $13B). Leonard Green has at least $13.5B for their current fund (final close tbd), $12B for the last one and $9.6B for the one before that. I’m sure there’s a few others that I’m missing, but that’s quite a few more that either strictly or approximately (in the case of Apax and LGP if you don’t count the funds that are being raised and say that ~$9.5B funds aren’t exactly $10B) a MF by your definition. Also if you include only funds that invest “globally” as in Americas, EMEA, and APAC, you’d probably have to exclude LGP since they don’t really do APAC (they do have a couple European deals iirc), but H&F should still be included because they’ve definitely owned and been in the running for deals in Australia (in addition to having US and London offices)

 

There are two distinctive ways to identify whether or not you work at a MF.

1) Your parents / family / and friends outside of banking (think they) know the firm. They’ve seen it somewhere...on their 401k...mutual funds...they know it’s Black...something...Black...rock??stone?! Anyhow that’s one way you know 2) college kids know it — because they read the WSO PE forum and have caught a few glimpse of mega funds (most of these kids know all the investment banks...including Centerview and if they are really well-read, perhaps also Qatalyst and Allen & Co.

Those two are the only ways you can define a MF. If your first year banking analysts know the name, that fund can be considered upper MM or higher. If the second year analyst who flunked out of first year cycle knows the name, that firm can be considered middle market or above. If the firm is somewhere your friend from college who fucked up during banking process and went, then it can be considered lower MM.

Hope these practical definitions are helpful.

 

PE Mega Funds definition: 

- Most recent vehicles > $10 Bn

and

- EV of investments > $1 Bn

To my knowledge, those criteria give a list of 17 funds (12 US based and 5 Europe based): 

  • CVC
  • EQT
  • Cinven
  • Permira
  • Apax

(I might have missed a couple firms, in particular those PE houses who have historically always been UMM but which only recently broke the $10 Bn threshold)

Then, middle market PE firms should be categorized as follow:

  • UMM: investment vehicle between $5 Bn and $10 Bn + EV of targets between $500 M and $1 Bn
  • MM:  investment vehicle between $1 Bn and $5 Bn + EV of targets between $100 M and $500 M
  • LMM: investment vehicle below $1 Bn + EV of targets below $100 M
 

Not sure why you’ve been given Monkey Shit, we’re raising $15bn and the Ingram Micro deal is certainly MF territory

 
Most Helpful

This discussion is incredibly stupid, but will do my best to give a helpful answer here for anyone reading -

I would personally break MFs into two groups - the legacy MFs that have the history as being the ground breaking firms in the industry, and the newer entrants. I personally define for this group is having a massive flagship, international presence, invest across industries, and a full-suite of capabilities (credit, growth arms, etc). These are all more than just PE funds, they’re full shop asset managers that have a history in PE. They also all have the willingness and ability to do mega-deals ($5B+).

Legacy MFs - BX, Apollo, KKR, Bain, TPG, Warburg, Carlyle.

Newer / less historical MFs - every bit as good as the above, similar sizes and capabilities and same targets. Bitter prospects can throw MS, but I’d argue there is no meaningful distinction between these groups - CVC, Apax, EQT, Permira, Advent, CD&R, (arguably) Clearlake, probably others I’m missing.

And then some other buckets I’d consider, again very subjective but personally:

Sector funds - all of these guys are pretty similar to the above but focused only on one sector, so just a different approach. Vista, TB, Silver Lake, etc. again not saying they are any worse than the above group, but I think it’s hard to group a one-sector fund with places like BX that invest in anything and everything.

Pure-play PE - I’d argue any fund that just has one main PE vehicle isn’t a MF, as one of the key distinctions of a MF is doing all sorts of stuff other than PE. This isn’t worse at all (arguably better if you’re a PE associate tbh) - think of the BB vs EB debate. Anyway, I’d say the clear example here is H&F, but there’s a bunch of great PE funds that have stuck to being PE funds rather than trying to go public and expand into random verticals.

Not trying to rank things across these buckets at all - personally am at one of the non-MF categories and there’s a ton of benefits to that. But just think the argument of Advent / Permira / etc isn’t a mega fund is the stupidest debate ever just because they didn’t have a big US presence 20 years ago

 

I just had a head hunter reach out for a MM PE firm in Philly. I am prior Deloitte consulting and the last 1 1/2yrs in Corporate Dev. for a 16B company. Its more P&L, DCF, ROIC focused, but want to understand what I am missing to land the job at the MM PE firm. The location of the PE firm, the role, and the firm in general is all perfect. I just want to make sure I am fully prepared. Are you willing to mentor?

 

Above answers generally sound right to me - would categorize MF by the following criteria:

  • Fund size > $10bn
  • Multiple international offices (typically 5 or more)
  • Ability to deploy $1bn+ checks in a single deal; oftentimes you'll see transaction TEVs > $5bn, and sometimes in a consortium, >$10 bn
    • Optional - multiple strategies (ie growth, credit, etc.)

That said - the most important criteria is the ability to write massive checks, which almost is certainly a function of having a large fund. Some top performing MM players (ie Genstar with a $12bn fund), I would not consider a MF as they focus on the MM. Warburg, while fairly dissimilar to the other MFs as it has most of its history in growth, is still a MF given its legacy and international presence. Multiple strategies is where the line gets blurry - funds like CD&R / H&F that have a single PE strategy are great funds, and many would argue they are MFs despite not having multiple strategies, because of how dominant their pureplay strategies are.

Think it makes sense to segment the MFs from a perspective of business models as per the below:

 

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