Moving upstream — impossible ?
If one goes to a LMM fund , does it become basically impossible to move at the Vp or senior associate level to a MM/ UMM or even MF spot ? What if through HSW?
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I’m of the believe nothing is impossible, but shooting for the stars, when frankly in their eyes your ‘behind the 8 ball’ won’t be a walk in the park.
I’ve seen some LinkedIns that have been asso at no name PE’s even medium/large VC’s and have made their way to Blackstone, TPG, Apollo... Assume other MFs will house similar individuals.
You’ve got to assume the leap won’t be a one step process; this was the case re the aforementioned. This clearly comes with big downsides and considerations.
A) Carry, need I say more. If you plan on climbing the prestige ladder by hopping firms, kiss your golden handcuffs out the window, especially in the case of a couple of moves.
B) proof of worth, if you’re not working like you’re already in a MF (and have results to show for it) you’ll never get there. The top PE firms pick the best of the best, so in their eyes why the hell would they hire you if you don’t have a stellar record, and/or a demonstration of absolute excellence over a prolonged period.
C) End position sanity check. Say you work your balls off and 10-20 years later you land a MF role. You’ll perhaps land a position at a lower level than you might/should be at another firm. You’ve got to ask yourself what does progression look like from here, with the average track record of individuals at MFs how do you think you’ll fair with the politics at the top? Will a bunch of crème-de-la-crème happily welcome an underdog into the partner circle…. Read a couple of the Apollo threads on here and get back to me. Last point on sanity check is hours. Are you insanely mad enough with this stuff to be trying to prove yourself as the underdog in your life 10-20yrs from now?
I’ll round off with this:
• LMM to MF = not walk in the park… and do you really want a big chunk of your life to be assigned to this goal?
• I’m of the belief humans are the most malleable/pliable things on this earth, and if you really want something and you can rationalise it, you’ve got one life.
Bump
Not sure why this topic is consistently brought up. The simple answer is: LMM to MM sure, depending on the labor market. Like a previous commenter said, nothing is impossible but it’s as close to impossible in the finance world as it gets, moving from a $200M fund to Blackstone Corporate PE. Upmarket movement will be difficult no matter what in this market. People will throw out edge cases but just go look on LinkedIn or speak to people at these firms and the instances you’ll see these moves are few and far between, and typically always include an MBA for any big jump. But, LMM to MM definitely happens depending on the opportunity and level.
The problem with UMM and MF lateral moves upmarket is that the pipeline to get in these particular seats is so structured that there really isn’t a concept of “networking in”. They all almost strictly use HHs who will prioritize the candidates with the highest likelihood of placement. That coupled with the fact that an associate or VP writing equity checks for sub $100M EV deals is completely different than a $1B+ EV deal. Don’t take this literally, but if you’ve ever played football, it’s almost like comparing high school football to the NFL. The game is fundamentally the same but the process by which you play and operate is drastically different, which is seen as a negative for a firm. They would rather take an equally skilled candidate that can hit the ground running vs someone that may do just as good of a job but take longer to ramp. Hopefully that’s helpful and not seen as a discouragement.
My UMM fund has a bunch of upmarket lateral moves. I think its pretty common and possible at UMM but really depends on market conditions. If firms are growing in a good market, most people aren't willing to leave their seats so opens path to move upmarket.
I think some of the answers here are too long frankly.
Answer is yes, this is not possible.
I do think LMM (depends though which firm) -> MM is doable sometimes, again depending on which MM.
But LMM->UMM / MF I have NEVER seen (admittedly maybe single digit n during ZIRP got to a less prestigious UMM — but not the elite UMMs) and it just doesn’t make sense in theory based on the supply / demand of that labor.
I’m just saving myself from getting MS with the long post. If you bluntly tell people the inevitable truth, they get mad and say you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Two off the top of my head
Huron Capital -> GTCR (mid level)
Martis Capital -> THL
I went from an SA at an LMM to VP at a solidly MM shop, so can say that happens every now and then... LMM to UMM/MF I personally have never seen.
Know of a few people who have done pretty large jumps upwards:
1. Siguler Gulf -> Carlyle LBOs (believe flagship)
2. Acquiline -> a couple steps -> Thoma Bravo
3. Silveroak / PPC -> Lindsay Goldberg
4. FFL -> KKR
5. Lee -> Veritas
6. Rockbridge -> THL
7. Court Square -> Centerbridge -> EQT
8. Cypress -> Permira
Most / all w/o MBA. Blackstone has a few people who moved up firms a ton-post MBA, notably one SMD who went Piper Sandler -> Odyssey -> MBA -> Blackstone PE.
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