Q&A: London UMM/MF PE Associate

Hi all,


Know some of these bigger posts are helpful for people and they have been helpful for me. 


I have moved to the buyside in the last 6-12 months after 2-3 years of BB IB after studying at a target school. 

I am working for a Large Cap Fund with multiple strategies and spend most of my time doing PE like deals. 

I will answer most questions except questions around my background / specific to my fund for obvious reasons beyond what is already mentioned above.


Cheers,

PEM

 

When did you recruit and what was the process like? Does your firm hire MBB consultants and is the process different for them?

 

You can really recruit anytime so not a large consideration.
 

Process was fairly standard (and I say this after interviewing at multiple funds). Few interviews with the team, doing a case study, meeting few senior people, a lunch/dinner with some other members of the team, meeting more senior people and the offer. 


My fund does hire MBB consultants but I think there is more scrutiny on their technical skills vs a banker (i.e. I’ve heard of some people having to do a modeling test on top of the case study). Bankers are probably more questioned on the commercial side of things. 

 

What are your thoughts on PE straight out of undergrad vs 2/3 years at a reputable bank before making the switch?

From your own insight what does it take to land the PE analyst seats available in London since there just aren’t that many?

Thanks!

 

I don’t know - I never really took part in PE analyst recruiting. But I think that it’s extremely competitive to land these jobs and there is a big element of preparation that a lot of people don’t have coming out of school.
 

I think that some seats (Silver Lake, KKR, BX etc) will be great (although there is an element of self selection so is it that the job is great or the individual is outstanding and will be doing just fine regardless of the job) with the usual caveats: small class so lack of network, lack of formal training, less deal volume than in IB, and maybe more that I cannot think about right now. There are also pro’s for such jobs (that are in line with reasons why people move to the buyside in general).

 

I probably work 9-11/12 on average M-W, 9-8 T-F (I try to sneak out by having drinks with friends on the sellside/buyside and justify them as networking on Thursday) and 3-10 hours on the weekend (mostly reading / getting ahead for the following week). I think am lucky that my team doesn’t care about when/where you work as long as you get things done (seems more the case on the buyside vs sell-side).


I would say however that you have better visibility on your schedule - some weeks will be super quiet and others where you’ll be crazy busy and/or traveling. 
 

 

Look some funds hire consultants and others don’t. In general they almost only hire from MBB with maybe few coming from LEK type shops which will be a minority. 
I have no clue if its easier or harder than the IB path having only done IB myself but what I can tell you is that PE recruiting is not easy for anyone. Do what you will enjoy for 1-2 years and what you think you will be good at (i.e. your ranking/bucket in your analyst pool will matter more than being from MBB vs IB). 

 

1. What was you strategy around recruitment i.e. entering processes as Analyst 2 vs Associate? Would you try to move as Analyst 2, or wait it out spend extra year in banking and prepare more thoroughly?

2. To what extent closed deals matter in recruitment vs ones knowledge and skills? i.e. you have what it takes to get through interview rounds, but you did not manage to get an M&A deal on your CV

 

1. I was recruiting for a bit but was waiting for what I felt was going to be the right opportunity more than thinking I want to leave after 2 years specifically. Good opportunities come and you need to take them, but don’t rush leaving banking because your peers are leaving. I don’t think the extra year completely changes your ability to recruit - hopefully as an analyst 2 your skillset should be there and not move too much.
 

2. I think having deals that you can talk about - closed or not (i.e. failed or underbidder) is a must. If you only do ECM/DCM deal that’s not great because these lack technicality and also will be of little relevance for your next job. I think having 2 deals to talk about is good and frankly you should have that after c.2 years in banking unless you are really unlucky or in a bad team.

 

I think this evolves during your career and varies depending on the shop (how good support functions are), strategy (is your fund running a concentrated portfolio or not) and your tenure (the longer you stay at a fund the more you have with existing portfolio companies etc).

Currently I would say its 10-15% sourcing, 10-15% admin (incl. portfolio reporting) and the rest so 70-80% active work. Now as I get more senior to have more portfolio companies leading to more admin but also spend more time sourcing from the VP+ level.

Sourcing also varies on the fund, some only let Principals / Partners source, others are pushing juniors to source as well.

 

What are the most important factors in getting buyside interviews at UMM/MF shops?

Bank? Group? Uni? Ranking? Network? Good looks? 

 

Hey thanks for this and congrats!

1)how did you go about finding what's the right fund for you? (e.g. We often get approached for buyside opportunities by headhunters etc. Is this how you got the role? Or did you ever say I'd only want to work at xyz places and targeted them specifically?

2)Does staying in ib as As1 or As2 really limit your London buyside exit options? (You kind of answered that I realise) 

3)were you in M&A or a product group before and if the second was the move to pe challenging? Asking a LevFin guy

Thanks! 

 

1) I think its about truly asking yourself what interests you and what you want to make out of your next job rather than just thinking I want to go to a large PE fund with a decent name. I was specific in terms of fund strategy, industry, size, team dynamic that I wanted and made it clear to HHs / funds that I spoke to what I was after.

2) I don’t think it does, but you have to be fine potentially taking a pay cut / being brought back a year if you stay longer in banking but no-one will hold it against you. After Asso2 however people view you as too senior / likely to stay in banking but its not impossible to move over.

3) I think if you are coming from a product group (except M&A at some banks), you will be struggling a bit with the exception of LevFin given the lack of technical skills / exposure to what most funds do (PE and / or credit).

 

White male, English only proficient language, target European undergrad uni, no masters, mid tier BB, decent group resulting in good deal experience.

Realistically is there a possibility that I can break into UMM / MF PE after 2-3 years in banking?

What can I do to improve my chances of breaking in (apart from networking, interview prep and maximising ranking)?

Currently no industry focus. Will this count against me? Should I focus on geographical coverage roles in certain funds?

Thank you Pan. Appreciate all of your input on WSO, has been super helpful to me when breaking into banking and furthering my understanding of the industry.

 

Yes there are Large cap jobs out there for you, but maybe less than if you spoke European languages. You just need to nail the process for the fewer roles that may be open to hiring you. The sector focus is more a personal decision vs. a hiring decision. I think however that most funds now run either a geographic coverage or a sector coverage approach, so that’s something to be aware of and/or ask for when getting into processes. 

 

No regrets so far, look I liked my banking job, but had little to no-interest in doing the banking associate job / VP job of a banker that is to review slides all day for c5 years. I thought there was more thinking going on the buy side and so far I am happy. I may be more jaded in few months / years but who knows.

I think it’s also important to think what suits you as an individual, are you happy being focused on transactional experience or do you want more operational experience and get your hands dirty doing small M&A add-ons for instance. That should be the driver of your motivation more than just leaving for the sake of it.

 

1) A few processes (say 3-5 I would think) but as said I was highly selective about these.

2) I always thought that I would fail to get some offers on processes so I did not limit to 1 fund in my search so I guess some of the 3-5 processes that I did were preparatory.

3) It depends, some will be a 2 week process which is intense, others will be a 6 weeks process. Is your team flexible on working from

home or not (that makes is much easier to recruit for instance). But there are only so many funds recruiting at the same time if you filter a bit that it should not be an issue I would think. 
 

 

Congrats and great answers to the questions! I'm also at an MF in London. Do you see yourself here for the long term and was wondering if I've have I had a drink with you. Cheers 

 

What is your view on Brookfield in London? How does it stack up against other UMM/MM's in terms of pay, culture, prestige etc.?

 

Have done some large deals so would definitely not say its an MM fund, more an UMM fund. They are quite focused on Telco / Industrials / Infra related businesses.

I am not familiar with details of pay, but I heard that they pay well. 

On culturew they are quite formal (suit & tie every day, in the office most days) and their office is in Canary Warf which I would personally hate.

 

Hey, first of all thanks a lot for your contribution to the forum ! 

Just finished my first year as an Analyst, and would like to start looking for exits.

1) Could you share how you reached out to recruiters (LinkedIn, email, etc.) and what are the main HH in London to contact

2) When should you start contacting HH ? I would like to join buy-side in 6 - 12 months 

3) Are you happy you made the jump ? I am really liking my group as a junior but don't see myself do the MD job..

Thank you!

 

1) They mostly reach out - seen linkedin / emails being done before. Regarding the best ones - I have a list on my 20 most frequently asked questions thread.

2) Never too early to get the dialogue going, after 12 months of banking they should be receptive speaking to you.

3) I am happy I made the jump, I would flag however that the MD/Partner job in PE is not that dissimilar to that of an MD in Banking. You are still pitching yourself to investors, management teams as a partner and speaking to the various advisors.

 

Hi Pan, 

Thanks a lot for all your contributions, it has been really helpful for all of us prospects.

As I am currently a student but already signed a FT offer following a Summer internship at a European BB, I wanted to know what would be my chances of getting into large-cap buy-side after having spend 2 years in IB considering my profile: male, 3 languages (English + 2 continental), non/semi-target European master, European BB, strong group, past relevant internships (both IB off-cycles and PE internship at large-cap fund).

Thanks a lot!

 
Most Helpful

The interview had 8 rounds + a dinner (from what I have heard it’s maybe on the lower end) if I recall correctly - I would say the first 4 were to narrow down candidates followed by the case study following which it felt like I had the offer and it was on me not messing up with the senior folks and ensuring good fit / interest in the strategy. 
 

My case study was a 4 hour one with a public company and I was asked what I would do with it. Sounds easy but obviously it wasn’t the easiest business (i.e. niche industry, lack of comps, accounting restatement). What made it interesting was that there were 2 main divisions with little synergies - so you could take about P2P or a carve out. There was also a sponsor with a 20-50% stake. So a lot of moves and considerations and ways to approach the case. I guess they wanted to have a more creative case and approach than the usual CIM case study. The expectation was a short deck - what one would consider a screening deck (15-20 pages) with business overview, thesis & risks, model and conclusion. I would say besides what was flagged above it wasn’t that different than cases that are out there other than the fact that it was more creative and less defined. 

My fund / strategy is not the most commercial / operational let’s say (and not really been an area of interest to be honest) so did not prepare too much the commercial side - I think a lot of it has to do with curiosity and thinking in a structured manner. I was always asking business model related questions in banking rather than pure numbers questions to management teams which was annoying to my VPs but I guess I always had an interest and logic to most business cases so never felt the need to prep there - the prep probably came from there.

Felt good about technical questions after few years of banking honestly and having studied finance / accounting previously. 
 

Honestly, I didn’t prep that much - and looking back it was silly - feels like I could have prepped more, but I felt ready due to my experience in banking (did quite a few technical projects with funky structuring - not your vanilla operating revenue model).

 
Pan European Monkey

The interview had 8 rounds + a dinner (from what I have heard it's maybe on the lower end) if I recall correctly - I would say the first 4 were to narrow down candidates followed by the case study following which it felt like I had the offer and it was on me not messing up with the senior folks and ensuring good fit / interest in the strategy. 
 

My case study was a 4 hour one with a public company and I was asked what I would do with it. Sounds easy but obviously it wasn't the easiest business (i.e. niche industry, lack of comps, accounting restatement). What made it interesting was that there were 2 main divisions with little synergies - so you could take about P2P or a carve out. There was also a sponsor with a 20-50% stake. So a lot of moves and considerations and ways to approach the case. I guess they wanted to have a more creative case and approach than the usual CIM case study. The expectation was a short deck - what one would consider a screening deck (15-20 pages) with business overview, thesis & risks, model and conclusion. I would say besides what was flagged above it wasn't that different than cases that are out there other than the fact that it was more creative and less defined. 

My fund / strategy is not the most commercial / operational let's say (and not really been an area of interest to be honest) so did not prepare too much the commercial side - I think a lot of it has to do with curiosity and thinking in a structured manner. I was always asking business model related questions in banking rather than pure numbers questions to management teams which was annoying to my VPs but I guess I always had an interest and logic to most business cases so never felt the need to prep there - the prep probably came from there.

Felt good about technical questions after few years of banking honestly and having studied finance / accounting previously. 
 

Honestly, I didn't prep that much - and looking back it was silly - feels like I could have prepped more, but I felt ready due to my experience in banking (did quite a few technical projects with funky structuring - not your vanilla operating revenue model).

very helpful, thanks! Just one question - what do you mean by funky structuring? Most of my peers (and myself) at BBs end up doing either merger analyses (pitch / board level decks mostly, prior to getting mandated) or just 20-30 tab operating models. So grateful if you could perhaps give some high level examples of the funky structuring stuff.

Also, whenever I have worked on funky strategic opps stuff, it’s rarely gone through (i.e, deal doesn’t go through but one still learns theoretically). Was your experience similar or was there a high conversion rate on a lot of these for you?

Finally, for someone lacking transaction structuring (capital structure variations) experience, how would you say one can brush up (subs, prefs, converts playing out etc.)? 

 

Is it possible to recruit for UMM/MF PE in London with 4-5 years of Banking Experience (i.e. lateral Associate at a Top 3 BB), speaking multiple EU languages?

In that case, is it possible to do it without a significant downgrade (i.e. same level and pay as applicants with 2-3 YoE)? 

Is it different for MM PE?

Yes. Although you will probably have some downgrade on comp. MM PE will probably downgrade your comp. 

 

This is purely based on my suspicion and what I have seen but MFs have set “entry points” - so your YoE wouldn’t really matter and they would take you back few years which might lower your comp for a bit. 
MM PE might be willing to take you at a more senior level (some funds do it and others don’t) but you are very likely to take a pay cut anyways given that MM PE usually pays less at the junior level but often with carry upside. 

 

thanks mate for your quality contributions on this forum. About to start FT at an EB in London next year (one that allows analysts to do both M&A and RX), I am wondering how HHs in London view EB analysts? Seems to me that there is a large variance of opinions on this forum regarding EBs in London … some say the exits are great, others say HHs only fill leftover spots with EB candidates and the opportunities are not comparable to lower tier BBs … any thoughts on that? (given I read that you’ve recruited for and networked with EBs in the past)

 

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