How much do you or can you make in this industry...?
If you aren't
1) on the Ivy/Target --> IBanking bandwagon
2) have any personal connections in the industry
I started my career about a year ago after taking a break after undergrad. I'm up to about 80K+ bonus right now working in real estate software technology. I'm getting better on the software side which is opening up more opportunities with that, and am wondering if I should close out my efforts in finding a job in real estate finance? All the job offers I've received on that side are in the 45-65K range.
I like the idea of moving in either direction, but I just want to fully understand the opportunity on the finance side for a guy like me that is 27 y/o and still not in the finance world, but has a high IQ
I guess part of this also depends on the person and their skillset. I do know Argus, Excel at expert level, and VBA at an intermediate level, but in interviews for the better jobs, I've heard things like "you don't have any ibanking experience." I've even heard one guy give me a hard time because I would be one of the only guys without an Ivy league degree. Pffhsst
How much can you make varies on what you kill. A good broker in the industry can make a few million without much issues. Fund owners can probably make a lot more than that.
Excluding brokerage positions, where are the 20-80% of guys at?
there are many facets of real estate; you have to be more specific
It can't be impossible to shed some light on the range for entry-level to 1-3-year's-experience salaries. There are brokers, financial analysts, researchers/economists, valuation & advisory, (enter level development jobs -- I don't understand this area as much as I would like to), property managers, etc,
Inside Fin Analyst jobs, there are AM jobs, Acquisitions, CMBS, IBanking, etc. I'm mostly interested in these, ex the IBanking stuff or stuff you need to get IBanking experience to get into because it's probably too late to get on that bus.
I'm not a well-sharpened tool as an economic resource, I have skills in computer programming to financial analysis to economic theory. I think it's fine to pursue all paths at once for a little while, but I am tending to think that sharpening myself in one area might be a good idea as a 2-5 year plan for me, rather than the whimsical approach of just pursuing whatever career interests I gravitate towards (as long as they are valuable skills), and then whatever happens, happens.
that range you gave at first is what I have seen as well for entrylevel jobs, meaning first job out of college. Financial analyst jobs for capital markets brokers, P/E, and CMBS
All of this for a small fund: Analyst - 60-70k + 10% bonus 2 years Associate - 80-100k +10% bonus 2 years Director - $115k + bonus (this can start getting to be more than 10%) 3-5 years VP - $150 - $250k +bonus (sometimes 50% of salary) 5 years
Sky is the limit after that
All of the above are rules of thumb.
Property manager - Maxes out at 80k. Don’t do it. This is the shittiest job in the business.
CMBS/I-Banking - Paid like bankers and worked like bankers. See the Ibanking forum.
Megafunds/Big PE - I have no idea, ask the P/E forum.
Valuation & Advisory - Do you mean appraisal? Pay is shit at the beginning, think 35k - 50k/year but it is a good entry point for someone right out of their undergrad. I would lump being an analyst at a loan origination shop or being an analyst on a brokerage team in the same bucket as this. They all pay between 35k - 50k. Brokerage and loan origination becomes sales based after that and is straight commissions. Eat what you kill son. People in these places that don't fit into a sales role usually jump out after 2 years as an analyst and move to buy side (see my pay scale above for those pay grades).
Good brokers and loan originators can make 7 digits.
Research/economists - I have no fucking clue.
The offer range you mentioned seems close to industry averages, in our area of the country. A $65k offer with minimal Cre work experience seems good, assuming that the job will allow you to build the skills needed to lateral into better positions in the future.
Have you looked into any positions that are more technical in nature? Maybe working at a company that specializes in building financial models for clients? Can you elaborate in the type of software you work with?
Yes! I have found few, if any at all, opportunities that combine my interest with real estate and also in technology. What kind of jobs out there would let me take advantage of this?
I work at one of the major firms that produces CRE software and solutions. Often what I see is that products that we sell are often models or reporting solutions that are honestly, 90% of the time, things I could have produced in Excel with VBA and a SQL connector. There are some benefits to having a desktop application developed with c#, but it's 100X more expensive when you are doing customized solutions. I don't understand why companies wouldn't hire a guy who knows finance, real estate, and technology to build these kinds of models or reports. Instead, they hire a software company that has to have 5 different departments work together (business analysts design the solution, coders develop the software, etc.). Some of this is just the nature of business (guy X knows guy Y and they strike a deal, whether or not it's efficient or not, they don't care).
I'm a master of none, jack of all trades on the tech side. VBA and SQL I know well, I know a little c#, and on the IT/server/network side I could get a job there if I wanted to move into that.
Can anyone provide more detail on typical comp, including salary and bonus ranges, in a major market at a small/mid size fund?
I met at a guy at a conference, he was a multi-millionaire, net worth probably around $50-75 million if I had to guess. Anyways this kid that was in the group with us, asked about exit ops, go figure. The guy says the exit ops for real estate is to own your own real estate. This guy moved up the ladder at a REIT and he and several partners pulled out from there to start their own firm. Most of the money he made is because of his RE holdings, not because he was in a high up finance RE job.
This is exactly the way i see it. If you want to make a high paying corporate salary your whole life, real estate can make that possible, but there are a number of different routes that provide similar stability with higher average salaries. The difference is that real estate provides a medium for those of us who want to work in a more entrepreneurial based environment, the sky is the limit when it comes to earnings - assuming your willing to eventually go out on your own..
sky is the limit when it comes to earnings - assuming your willing to eventually go out on your own..[/quote]
That is why I said that the sky is the limit after VP...
What kind of entrepreneurial skills are most important in real estate? Analytical skills? People skills? I know that brokers and loan originators can crush it, but that has a lot to do with connections and building a network. Is it the same when you cut out on your own and begin to own your own real estate?
That is why I said that the sky is the limit after VP...[/quote]
Sorry Mogul, I'm not trying to steal your spot light on a RE forum...
Econ- companies do hire people that know real estate, finance, and technology; not just software companies. Its quite common to hire outside consultants to come in and create specialized systems, models, etc.. Look up companies like Bridgepoint Consulting in austin and see if a role like that would work.
Entrentrepreneurial skills in every sector vary and depend on risk tolerance. If your able to identify earning potential where others cannot, and learn to leverage your skills, resources, and network - then you could make alot of money. I guess it depends on your goals and method of creating value.
The salaries are probably gonna suck in the beginning. But once you are in, you can always take advantage of the info you possess and have some personal investment in real estate.
A general rule of thumb is that real estate pays like crap in relation to comparable positions in high finance. But the others are right--the "exit options" are basically entrepreneurship. If you're not willing to be an entrepreneur--take on risk, build personal networks, intellectually invest in mastering industry analytical knowledge--then just forget real estate and go to a better compensated 9-5 career path.
Agreed. Start your own thing with guys that need someone like you (tech savy) if they have the relationships.
your firm size/pedigree matters A LOT. I am a lowly associate and I make over 250
In Manhattan or in Philadelphia? That's not ridiculous money in NYC.
International,
I'm in RE investment in an international financial center in the Far East. And you're right it's not redic money, it's just what the bigger REPE firms / internal principal investment divisions at banks, etc, tend to pay
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