Ask Clear Admit: Can I get into a top MBA program?
WSO is excited to have the experts from the Clear Admit team on board to answer applicant questions in the business school forum.
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This thread will also be used by Clear Admit to answer any questions you have about their services. Can you get into that top MBA program? Drop your stats in here and see what the experts have to say!
Good luck to everyone applying to business school!
Patrick
Thanks for the warm welcome to the WSO community Patrick!
We're thrilled to offer our expertise here. Feel free to post your questions about MBA admissions and we'll do our best to offer prompt replies.
As a means of background, my name is Graham Richmond and I am a former MBA admissions officer from the Wharton School. I also completed my MBA at Wharton. As such, I have seen the admissions process as an applicant, a student and an admissions officer. I have also counseled hundreds of successful applicants to Harvard Business School, Stanford, Wharton, Kellogg, MIT, Chicago, LBS, Columbia, NYU, INSEAD (and more) over the last 10 years.
For more information on my profile: http://clearadmit.com/graham
Best of luck to everyone who is contemplating the pursuit of an MBA from a top program!
Regards,
Graham
Hi Graham, thank you for joining WSO and I believe your advice is extremely valuable to us - as a recent University graduate just joined work force, i'm eager to receive some bschool advice from you
Some stats about myself:
graduated from top 5 university in Canada, specialized in applied math and stats, has leadership experience CGPA: 3.9/4.0, CFA Level 1, GMAT(not yet taken but testing result at 770)
currently role: on a 2 year rotational program in wealth management(great senior leadership exposure, small project management, and client facing roles in some rotations) in top 5 Canadian Bank
has volunteer work
Purpose of getting into b-school is for a career change(consulting post bschool), and complement my quantitative background.
What are your suggestions in terms of improving my chance of getting into MBA business schools ">M7 ? Is this realistic for my background?
Thanks!
Hi Flying Chen,
I'm a Senior Admissions Consultant at Clear Admit and happy to answer your question.
You do appear to have the raw ingredients to be competitive at M7 business schools. Per an earlier post of mine, you'll want to focus in the following areas to improve your candidacy: -Demonstrated success at work - promotions and compensation increases are the strongest indicators. Also, developing project management and people management skills and accomplishments. -GMAT - generally want to set a goal of at least your target schools' average gmat score with relatively even percentile weighting between verbal and quant sections. A 770 score will help differentiate you from the applicant pool.
-Extracurricular involvement - leadership positions or other consistent involvement. Ideally linked with the extracurricular activities you were involved with during college. -Research and refine your career goals. In addition to a short-term career goal of management consulting, you'll want to think about a long-term career goal as well (10-15 years post-MBA).
Hope that helps! Please feel free to forward your resume to [email protected] for a detailed and free profile evaluation.
Best, Heidi
Heidi Granner Clear Admit, LLC [email protected] 215.568.2590
Hi guys,
Firstly, thanks for starting this discussion. It has been hugely helpful to read your responses to others' questions. I would be very grateful if you could offer any advice on my own profile and specific concerns I have about my application. I'm planning on applying next year and will most likely use a consultant given that I am terrible at writing cover letters and application essays. Below are my stats (as they will be at the time of my application):
Demographics: - Male, 30, international applicant (small, developed country)
Education - Undergrad: BS (engineering), 3.7/4, one of the top universities in my home country. Handful of interesting projects & publications. - Grad: MS (engineering), 3.7/4, top US university. Handful of publications and various teaching & research positions.
Work experience - 3 yrs at boutique management consultancy. Promoted once, faster than normal. Worked on various projects which got a considerable amount of press... not sure if this helps in any way? (Concerned people will have never heard of this company. Also got an offer from one of MBB not sure if this helps or how/whether to bring it up?) - 2 yrs at global tech company in their strategy team (but not in the head office). Promoted once. Worked on a few high profile initiatives within the company
ECs/Other - Nothing substantial since college
Target schools - HBS/GSB/Wharton/MIT/Oxford
Motivations for pursuing MBA (further than the requisite networking opportunity, life experience etc) 1) More international and global perspective on business - most of my work in both jobs related to my local market only 2) To see different problem solving approaches - even now the majority of people I interact with are consultants or ex-consultants.
After completing my MBA I'd like to either return to my company, or another tech company in a similar but more senior role. Alternatively (or concurrently) I'd like to take a go at starting something myself :)
My key concerns are: 1) Realize there isn't that much detail above but is my 'story' plausible / likely to be effective? That's genuinely what I think but at the end of the day, 2 years is a long time and motivations can change so happy to say whatever I need to to get in ;)
2a) I have no impressive or substantial ECs - do I still have a shot at a top program? I've never started a not-for-profit nor do I chair half a dozen committees. But (I like to think) I'm not a one-dimensional boring hack - I do play a few different sports socially... but don't think this counts for much (used to play for my college team but do not play competitively anymore). I also volunteer but have done nothing substantial or regular (i.e. soup kitchen a few time, various charity runs, donate old clothes to orphanage every time I go overseas on vacation, mentored a disadvantaged high school student in college but that was a long time ago...). I also serve as an informal adviser to a handful of friends who are starting their own businesses... I don't get paid but love talking business strategy and brainstorming ideas with them which they then go and attempt to execute. So a random collection of interests but not much save-the-world type stuff...
2b) I have no impressive awards... problem?
3) I'm not sure if my leadership examples are strong enough. I have been solely responsible for leading several projects at my corporate where I have engaged people from other parts of the business to perform work for me, but I do not have any full-time direct reports... is that OK?
4) I suck at standardized tests... but guess I just have to suck it up and study a lot :(
Cheers!
biggles15 –
Thanks for the post and for your patience in waiting for a response. I’m happy to hear that you plan on applying in the next cycle since that actually gives you some time to address some aspects of your profile, but before I get to that, we need to talk about GMAT and I’m actually going to start with your last comment first . . .
Before you really start considering target schools, you need to have a gmat score. It obviously needs to be a pretty phenomenal one given the schools that you’ve mentioned. It’s not as if the GMAT is the end all, be all of an application, but given that you’re concerned about your performance, it’s important to know just what kind of score you’re working with before you start aspiring to the schools you’ve mentioned. I recommend making the investment in getting some GMAT prep assistance to help ensure that you are maximizing your potential. Once you have a score (hopefully somewhat soon), you’ll have a better idea as to what programs can be categorized as stretch/target/safety for you. You need to have a range of programs in the mix, especially given your age/experience. It’s not going to get easier for you as time goes by, so this is likely the year to make it happen if you want to do a traditional, full-time MBA program.
A few comments about your other concerns . . . ECs. This is another benefit of having a bit of time to do some work and at least you have something to start with as opposed to individuals who don’t really have any EC to reference at all. Pick a few of the things that you’ve been involved with and MAKE them regular, more substantial, more cohesive.
Leadership . . . so you might not have a leadership role as it’s often traditionally defined where you have people reporting to you, you’re guiding their work/development, etc., but I do see that you’ve been successful in getting people to follow your vision, positively impacting your company, etc. I think there’s potential to work with what you have, and again, you have time to be proactive in pursuing additional opportunities between now and the application deadlines.
Your goals generally sound reasonable and build upon your prior experiences.
All in all, though, I’m not seeing much of the special sauce that’s required to get into an ultracompetitive MBA program. What about you is game changing? With HBS, how can show that you’re a born leader? Do you have the necessary pedigree? With GSB, how do your goals convey a grand vision for impacting your industry and world?
My first piece of advice was to get a great GMAT, but a great score is only one part of the equation. Make a plan for the next six months that deals with GMAT, your ECs, and leadership/work. Then execute perfectly! Shameless plug, but since you mentioned that you are likely to use a consultant, I’m pretty confident that I can help you with that execution and with making the most of your experiences.
I hope that helps and best wishes to you on your applications.
Regards, Jon
Hi Graham,
Thank you in advance for your advice.
My background is not as impressive as many others, but I wish to know my chance of getting into decent MBA programs (probably not MBA business schools ">M7, but Yale, Stern, etc) and how I could increase my chance of being admitted.
Academic - Graduate from HKU - GPA 3.42/4 (second honor upper) - Major in accounting & finance and minor in French
Career - Consultant in IBM (1.5 years), one promotion - Data analyst in Bloomberg (just started one week ago)
GMAT - First take 730. Considering whether to retake
ECA - Back in university, volunteer to provide consulting services to local SMEs.
As I said, I wish to know my chance of getting into decent MBA programs. Or if I can't land on good MBA programs, what kind of master of finance/accounting programs will be within my reach.
Thank you very much again!
jackiez -
Thanks for your post. There are definitely a few things for you to consider to increase your competitiveness.
I'm guessing that you intend to apply to MBA programs in this upcoming cycle, so my first suggestion is that you wait. The fact that you will only have ~3 years of work experience at the time of enrollment coupled with the timing of your new job will likely hurt you a bit in the process. While the substance of one's work is obviously most critical, it usually takes 4 - 6 years for someone to have accumulated enough experiences to really be a competitive applicant. Also, if you were to apply in R1, I imagine that it'd be challenging for you to point to much impact, accomplishment, etc. at Bloomberg. That could still be true by R2. Your new supervisors might also have trouble being effective recommenders for you, too, given your limited tenure in your new job. The other complicating issue is that you just started a new job, and that impacts the "why now" question that you're trying to answer through your application.
If you do apply this year, I'd recommend you expand your school horizons a bit further, too. MBA business schools ">M7 have a well-deserved reputation for being hard to gain admission, but Yale, NYU, Tuck, Haas, etc., aren't what I would call "easier". NYU has been more selective than Wharton recently, and it's also more selective than Columbia, Booth, and Kellogg. Similar stories for the other schools, too. That's not to say that you shouldn't apply to some of these schools - I'm just trying to make sure you're clear on the challenge in front of you.
Regards, Jon
What has your experience been with applicants from F500 rotational programs (GE FMP etc)?
Do you consider them in direct competition with those applicants coming from financial services (IB, PE etc)?
Do you see additional experience past the normal 2 years of these programs as vital to admission?
Have you noticed a particular trend with those admitted to M7 schools from F500? (ex: higher GMAT, international experience, business development roles)
Thanks!
BeeGees,
Thanks for your questions!
My thoughts are as follows:
1) The folks coming from F500 rotational programs are NOT typically in competition with the I-Banking/PE crowd. While it likely goes without saying, this is a major advantage for the rotational crowd.
2) This depends on several factors - like which school you are targeting (even within the M7) and what you have actually accomplished in your two years. I've worked with folks who've managed several rotations (both domestic and international) in just a short period of time and those candidates can often make a compelling case to head right to b-school. Another factor to consider is your post-MBA plan. If you are returning to your current employer, you may have a better case at the two year mark than if you are a career changer who needs some additional experience to facilitate a jump.
3) The main trend I have seen over the years is that people from great rotations (J&J, Amex, GE) usually do quite well in the process - largely because they have a diversity of experience and can often present slightly less common career plans. I would not say that this group has trended towards scoring more highly on the GMAT or having international experience (although neither of these traits hurt). I will say that one of the key differentiators tends to be caliber of experience (exposure to senior leadership, client-facing roles, leading small projects, etc.) - whereas many in IB or consulting often feel more cookie-cutter. It's also often the case that this group has better/more developed outside activities and interests (presumably due to slightly less insane work hours when stacked up against the finance or consulting worlds).
Feel free to send your resume to [email protected] if you'd like to take a deeper dive on your specific profile. Clear Admit offers a free initial phone assessment with one of our counselors to anyone who reaches out to us.
Best of luck and thanks again for the great questions!
Regards,
Graham
What is the best thing that older applicants (28-30) with otherwise very strong profiles can do to increase their odds at H / S / W? Thanks!
Ravenous,
Thanks for your question.
While each of the three schools on your list assess candidates in a slightly different fashion, there are a few things you can do to help your chances across the board as an older applicant:
1) Make it clear that you have a lot to add to classroom discussion (diversity of experience, etc.) without sounding like an 'old dog who cannot learn new tricks'.
2) Convince your admissions reader or interviewer that you are likely to be VERY active as a student (beyond showing up for class and going through the recruiting process). Showcase your capacity to lead specific activities/clubs/conferences on campus.
3) Hit things out of the park on the numbers front (GMAT, GPA).
4) Express a career plan that your target schools' career services office can get on board with. In other words, if you are a 30-year old IT Consultant with no exposure to Wall Street (beyond a hobby of investing in stocks or having taken a CFA exam), don't pin your goals around joining an investment bank or PE fund. Put yourself in the shoes of the recruiter at your post-MBA target firm and ask yourself if that firm would be interested in your CURRENT profile. If the answer is 'no' revisit your goals.
There are many other things you could do, but this list should provide a good start! Feel free to reach out to Clear Admit directly if you'd like to learn more about your services.
Best of luck,
Graham
Hi Graham,
Thanks for joining us on WSO.
Stats:
Employer: F100 Tech Company Financial Analyst, has promotions, ( 5 Years )
Undergrad: 3.6/4.0 BS. Finance Large State School, Leadership Experience, Alumni Board
GMAT: Not Taken
Extra: Dual Citizenship, CFA L1, local awards in a sport,
Question:
What MBA programs are best for candidates interested in corporate development, treasury, strategy, for a F500? Do MBA programs value a candidate more or less if they want to go the non-traditional finance route of going into a F500 rather than consulting / IB?
Does the CFA carry any weight? If so, can it compensate for a low GMAT?
How much does volunteer work factor in? Does everyone need SOME volunteer work?
Hi YellowRanger,
Thanks for your question. My thoughts are as follows:
1) If your goals are presented well in your materials/interviews, the top schools will actually value the non-traditional element. As long as your goals come across as being feasible/logical given past experience (shouldn't be a problem for you) and as long as the school feels like they can help you land the post you are targeting (check out the employment reports of your target schools to see if F500s are hiring in the role(s) you seek at your target schools) - you should be fine.
2) Your general stats (GPA, years of exp., etc.) look competitive. The GMAT will be important - since it will be used to 'benchmark' your GPA/the caliber of your undergraduate degree (and since you are likely to be in a fairly competitive portion of the applicant pool).
3) The CFA is viewed as a professional (NOT academic) credential. It will not help compensate for a low GMAT (the GMAT is viewed as a measure of academic aptitude). [Note: this is a great question - and a subject that so many applicants fail to fully grasp when it comes to admissions strategy.]
4) The schools care about outside interests/activities - e.g. what you do when you are not at work (or not in class as an undergraduate). As such, it doesn't actually matter that much if you are serving meals in a soup kitchen or playing drums in a jazz quartet with your spare time. They key is to show consistent, passionate involvement outside of your professional life. There are MANY ways to do this.
Feel free to reach out directly by sending your resume to [email protected] if you'd like a more in-depth assessment with one of our counselors.
Best of luck,
Graham
Thanks for you help Graham! Solid advice.
What can someone going into the middle office at a large/renowned firm do to compete against FO applicants at the M7, whether it be on the job (obviously look for leadership opportunities) or off the job?
Thanks!
Dear Inspiredude,
Thanks for your question. A few thoughts:
1) While front office roles are typically viewed as more glamorous/prestigious/harder to get, they are also far more plentiful in the applicant pool for top-tier schools. As such, one benefit of your middle office role is that it will be less common.
2) As to how you compete with the front office types, there are many ways. On the work front, the key will be to showcase leadership experience, projects you've initiated, creative solutions you've devised, etc. You should also be sure to "own" your career path - and showcase a passion for what you've done (as opposed to more of an "I wish I was front office" mentality. Academically, you should strive knock the cover off the ball when it comes to the GMAT. It would also help to have a great ugrad GPA from a reputable/top-tier undergraduate institution.
3) Of course many candidates in the pool from all kinds of posts/industries bring strong experience and numbers to the admissions process - so the key to you success will likely come down to some of the intangibles like your personal background, outside interests, travels, community involvement, etc. - and how these elements are represented in your essays, recommendations, data forms, resume and interview.
Best of luck,
Graham
Hey Graham quick question on my chances for a M7?
Stats:
3.4 CGPA with 2.9 GPA in Econ (Big 10) Current Position: IT Sales GMAT: 640
I know my stats aren't t impressive, how can I improve my chances? Thanks in advance mate.
Dear GoWithTheFlow,
Thanks for your post!
My thoughts are as follows:
1) Your overall GPA of 3.4 is in the ballpark for top schools, albeit a bit below the average at the top-end of the M7.
2) Your GPA in Econ (presumably your major) is worrisome - not because the adcoms typically focus on GPA in major (in fact most of them don't even ask) but because they do examine transcripts and comb them for evidence of quantitative skill/exposure to MBA 'foundation' subjects (like economics, accounting, statistics, calculus). If you have some low marks in these areas it might be a bit of a red flag - even if your job is highly quantitative (since work experience does not really count in their measurement of your academic aptitude).
3) Your GMAT score of 640 is well below the average for M7 schools and is currently a liability in your file. This result will also color the perception of your undergraduate institution and could ultimately lead to a 'discounting' of your GPA (depending on which Big 10 program you attended and how the adcom feels about that school).
4) I would need to know a lot more about your role in IT Sales to offer insight. Do you work for a well known firm? Have you moved up in the ranks? Trained others? Made major contributions to the bottom line?
Assuming you are a white male (e.g. part of an over-represented portion of the applicant pool), I would say the odds at the M7 are stacked against you with your current GMAT result. How many times have you taken the test? What were the percentile results for math and verbal? Are you planning to take it again? Pushing through the 700 mark could do wonders for your case.
Of course, there are many other aspects to your profile that I would need to know to really pin down your odds with the top-tier MBA programs (perhaps you grew up in Indonesia and speak 4 languages, etc.). Feel free to send your resume to [email protected] if you'd like to have a chat with one of our counselors about your chances.
Best of luck,
Graham
Hi Graham - thanks for joining.
Some background info:
All that said, do I have any chance at NYU or Columbia? If not, would you recommend Rutgers or Pace, or NYU part-time?
Thanks
Hey Graham quick question on my chances for a M7 (esp Harvard, Booth, Sloan, and Tuck)
Stats:
3.86 GPA from U of Maryland Current Position: M&A Advisory PWC GMAT: 730
Extras - Former CEO of fairly successful start-up and Founder of non-profit focusing on education and serve on Exec Board of other Non-profit
Kevin, posted earlier...tell me what you think
Hi Jwalsh, thanks for your inquiry. You certainly have the raw numbers and a distinctive non-professional profile that would make you competitive at top schools. But of course not all M7 schools are equally hard or easy to get into - for most applicants, HBS and Sloan are tougher to get into than Booth and Tuck. Whether or not you are ultimately successful will depend on how you position stories and "market" your background. For example, can you be more specific about how "fairly successful" your start-up was? What were some quantifiable impacts that your non-profit has achieved? How do these partipications and your M&A job relate to your future goals? You don't necessarily have to tie all your major experiences into one neat package that tells a singular story, but it can be effective if done credibly.
Lastly, while your GMAT is strong, it is not strong enough to distinguish you from other accomplished applicants to the very top schools. In other words, your GMAT is strong enough to be a non-factor in your application, but it's not strong enough to be a positive factor. Is 730 the best you can do, or have you left some points on the table? If it's realistically close to the best you can do, then I do not suggest focusing more on the test, and you should move on to strenghten your profile in other ways. However, if you feel that you have left points on the table (e.g., that a 750+ is a possibility), given that we are still months away from the R1 deadlines, you may want to consider giving the GMAT another shot. When someone scores a 750+, schools start to look for excuses to admit that person :) It does make a difference on the margin.
Hope this helps! Good luck!
Best, Kevin
how haard is it to get into oxford
ty
Ty,
Thanks for your question.
On the whole I would say that Oxford/Said has a fairly competitive admissions process. Is it as hard to get into as INSEAD or LBS? Not quite, but the program's small class size means that they don't need the applicant volume of an INSEAD to be highly selective. Of course, the real answer to this question depends heavily on your profile, since some populations are less represented in the pool than others.
Here are some basic stats on the school's class of admitted students:
Class size: 248 GMAT average: 690 Work Exp: 6 years Avg. Age: 29
Read our insider's guide to the school as well: http://clearadmit.shop.studylink.com/product.cfm?productid=72
Best of luck!
Graham
hahha
Just curious, I don't have an application question in particular and I don't plan on applying -
How do the MBA applicants of today compare with the applicants from 10 years ago? Specifically, what was the avg GPA/GMAT back then versus today? How about work exp? I am sure there is difference since MBA admissions seem to get more competitive over time, but I want to hear your perspective.
Also, have the criteria for admissions evolved as well? Do adcoms look for a different type of class profile then they did 10 years ago?
No need to get too specific and don't feel obligated to answer. Like I said, I am just curious. Thanks.
Graham,
Thanks for taking the tme.
BA Economics - Top 25 USA School- 3.4 MSC Finance - UK Based Top 5 school
2 years at a bank, (founded and sold startup on the side) 1 year equity research 2 years in current venture captial role
What is the min GMAT for M7?
Graham,
Thanks for thoughts.
Had a question on how a masters in finance taken right after undergrad affects a profile. Is this viewed as a positive or negative? Would there be more emphasis placed on undergrad grades or MSF grades separate schools?
Also - GMAT 700 GPA 3.6 - worth taking the GMAT again?
Thanks.
Can you point me to the profiles of your consultants?
Ske7ch,
Thanks for your question. You can see the profiles of our consultants here:
http://www.clearadmit.com/mgmt.html
As you will see, we are a small team of full-time admissions consultants. We work with a select group of applicants each season and have been getting folks into top schools for over 10 years.
You can read more about our firm on the site's press page in case you are curious what independent sources like Forbes, WSJ, Economist, BusinessWeek and the Washington Post think about our expertise:
http://www.clearadmit.com/news.html
Thanks again for your question!
Regards,
Graham
Interested.
Hi Graham,
thanks for taking the time.
What do you think are my chances of getting into HBS or GSB? These are the only two bschools where I think that the time spent would be more beneficial for my career than to keep working.
Stats: Age: 25 BSc and MSc at two very well known European universities. GPA in the top 10-20% area GMAT 740-760 (haven't taken it yet but test GMAT scores were 750 and 770) Work exp. at the time of my application: 2 years at a highly known strategy consultancy but not MBB Extra curricular: Nothing since I started working, lots of sports in high school (national team level, smaller things during university - tutoring, active in university societies,...) Lots of international experience in Europe, Asia and the US (university exchange, internships,...)
Does it help that my employer would pay for the MBA if I promise commit myself to keep working there afterwards for at least two years?
Hi Graham,
Was wondering on what your thoughts are on a trader applying to a top MBA program (H/S/W)? Does the admission committee deem traders unfavorable? Lastly, from your experience do many traders apply to MBA programs?
Thanks
Graham,
Thanks for taking the time to answer questions.
Would an extremely strong GMAT make up for a weak GPA? If so - how strong of a GMAT would be needed to cancel out a 2.8 GPA? Assuming slightly over 2 years of finance work experience and a few years of volunteer work.
Hey Graham,
Stats:
Undergrad GPA - 3.3 in Finance from a large state school in Texas. GMAT - aiming for 700ish Work Experience - Financial Analyst at a fortune 5 oil company for the past 14 months, On top of my daily responsibilities I led a group of analysts on a year-long project. I am now about to start my second rotation in a BO/MO risk role supporting our NGL traders.
Will have a few EC's under my belt before MBA (United Nations Association member, volunteer at the public school district I was in as a child, member of Toastmasters International)
I want to start my MBA in the Fall of 2014. I will have around 3.5 years of experience by that time (will probably have completed 3 rotations by then).
I think M7 is a long shot but I'm interested in the next tier of schools (Duke, McCombs, Ross, NYU, etc.). I am looking to get into IB/PE after MBA at the associate level.
What schools do you think are realistic and how do you think I can better my application?
Thanks for doing this!
Hi Kevin,
I posted this earlier. Can you please comment on my chances...
Thanks for doing this.
Kevin or Graham, what is your opinion on this profile?
Thanks.
Hi Graham, really appreciate you taking the time to do this.
Shooting for M7 schools.
Undergrad GPA: 3.28 overall 3.6 upper level. B.S. Chemical Engineering top 20 engineering school
GMAT: 690 first time, going to retake to boost quant (aiming for 720+)
Extracurriculars: VP of student AIChE chapter, founding Treasurer of Entrepreneurship Society.
Work Experience: Internships in chemical process engineering and refining. Currently working as a deepwater drilling engineer in the GoM responsible for coordination of operations on the rig. Will have 3-4 years at matriculation.
I plan on applying in about 2.5-3 years (age 25-26) I realize that my essays and letters of recommendation will be very important, any other tips to improve my chances?
Thanks.
Hi Kevin, posted earlier and wondered if you'd give me your thoughts.
Thanks!
Gonna try this one again, for either Graham or Kevin: