Villanova v. Vanderbilt: MSF
Hello everybody,
I am graduating with a BS in economics in December 2011 and have been seriously considering both programs.I have no relevant internship experience and post grad employment doesn't look great. Basically my grades were not good enough to get into a good university(state non-target) and I need another chance at recruiting and to take the finance courses I missed out on as an econ major. I know both programs have pros & cons but I could really use some insight.(I have yet to take GMAT)
As an aside: I prefer to work in NYC - Eventually pursue MBA - Interested in M&A.
Cumulative GPA 3.8 major 3.94.
Have you checked MSFHQ.com? "Ant" on this forum also went to Villanova's MSF program, I think. You may want to PM him.
Villanova. Has some solid placement and is closer to the city for NYC networking.
Both schools have their pros and cons. I'll let this thread be an open debate before I inject my opinions.
Villanova. Because Anthony goes there!
Vandy because other better looking people are applying to Nova and don't want the competition...just kidding. Gotta go with Nova though. Networking, location, etc.
I am leaning toward Villanova because of the location which seems better for NYC recruitment. Also Vanderbilt is nearly $10,000 more in tuition. My only real regard for Vanderbilt is that after completing the MFS you can come back and complete an MBA in one year. Plus it seems as Vanderbilt alum have a strong presence in NYC, not sure compared to Villanova.
Yeah, the Vandy 1 year MBA is solid, but I would think that you could get into a better MBA program after some time on the street. Nova MSF places mostly NYC, but also in Philly. Alumni are concentrated in NYC. PM me for more info.
SEC>Big East. Placement be damned.
The opportunity to get a 1 year MBA at Vanderbilt after doing an MSF is NOT a selling point. If your GMAT is high enough to get into the Vandy MSF program, you will do way better than a Vandy MBA after a few years in finance.
Yeah, I agree with Buyside. Nova has a 1 year MBA option also (which before it gets flamed, is decent for those working in Philly). With that said, neither should factor in your decision.
Both good schools with pretty good placement. But for NYC, I would roll with Nova.
Best advice I can give: Land a relevant internship during the spring and summer before you start your MSF. Too many people enter into these programs w/o any experience and assume they can land BB FT offers. Not saying its impossible, just an uphill battle.
With the Vandy MSF I can see an internship before it starts, but with Nova would it have to be a part-time thing while you're doing the summer classes?
How do Villanova students typically cover this requirement?
Its not a requirement, just a suggestion. If classes start in the summer, find a boutique that will allow you to work around your schedule. Again, just a suggestion but it will pay off when fall recruiting rolls around.
Ok, I have a moment to reply.
Vanderbilt has a great MSF. They place very strongly down south and some in NYC. A good mix of F500 positions as well as some banking/trading/ER/PhD, etc. They are located out of Nashville so if you like the south and Nashville, you are good.
Villanova also has a great MSF. Placements for Villanova are mostly in NYC, with a strong Philadelphia pull. Very, very few F500 placements, mostly banking or RE/Commercial Lending/boutique shop stuff. My class was a normal class in my opinion. We placed into PE, MM banking, restructuring, corporate banking rotational programs, boutique shops in Philly and NY, some smaller consulting shops, etc.
On campus recruiting at Nova is mainly MM IB's, but bulge brackets come for the undergrads for S&T and some banking. GS has S&T SA recruiting on campus, JPM, BAC, etc. Many of my UG friends are working in S&T at BB firms or banking at BB firms. The school is extremely well off and well regarded.
We all know rankings are bullshit, but when I went for my MSF, the UG B school was ranked 10. It slipped to 20 after we graduated, but it goes back and forth. Yes, I know, most top schools do not have an UG B school. Even if you add them in front of Nova you still have the UG B school ranking in the 20-30 range. When you factor out that a Cali school will place more into Cali than NYC or Philly, you have a pretty solid school.
Example, UCLA is a better school than Villanova (pure rankings), but Villanova will place you better in NYC and Philadelphia. So if you want to work east coast, go Nova.
I digress.
Tons, tons of alumni in NYC.Tons of alumni in Philly. I interned at 3 shops when I was going for my MSF. You can easily do internships during the year since you are 15 minutes outside of Center City. Some people love Philly, some hate it, but it 100% does have a lot of finance and financial firms.
The MBA's at Nova are also pretty legit. It is a function of Villanova being the best PT MBA program in the Philadelphia area (pure rankings). I am in class with PE guys, corporate bankers, ex Goldman asset management VP's, mid level corp finance people, KPMG, Duff & Phelps, Blackrock, etc. Once again, not Wharton, but if you want to work in Philly or NYC, plenty of fish in the sea.
Salary in Philly is going to be less than NYC (obviously). Street in NYC is like 70-75. Pay in Philly for banking will be in the 60's. bonuses will depend on the shop. Housing in Philly is 1/4 the price. A sick loft in Philly is 1300 a month, center city. Quadruple that in NYC. Yeah yeah, I know, Philly is not NYC, but it is 1 hour away and it is a great city so who can complain.
Nitty gritty.
Nova is a very rich and very small school. Girls are hot (legit hot)
http://www.brobible.com/Story/104259
The MSF program is established and on its 6th or 7th year. We have alumni going to Booth, as associates at banks, VP's at some, in PE in NY and in Philly, in PhD programs, etc. I am happy I went and love the school.
I personally am working very, VERY hard at improving the program and if you decide to go to Villanova you will run into me more than once. I know all the past MSF alumni, the current class (before they came) and most of the forming 2011-2012 class.
Anyone interested in Villanova or MSF programs in general, please feel free to PM me. As people in this thread can attest, I make time no matter what.
Anthony
Wouldn't BC versus Nova be a better question?
Vanderbilt MSF vs. Villanova MSF (Originally Posted: 02/13/2013)
Vanderbilt wants a $1,000 deposit by next week, so I need to make up my mind. I am still waiting in WUSTL and MIT.
Both schools have offered me fellowships and/or really nice scholarships. Villanova is offering almost $10,000 more, but the cost of living is also higher. I care a lot more about getting into IB, so money is not that big of a criterion.
I have had a boutique PE and two boutique IB internships, so Villanova starting in the summer does not concern me.
I am leaning towards Villanova because of the location. What are your thoughts? I could just pay the $1,000 and wait for the other schools, but $1,000 is $1,000 lol
How is the cost of living at Villanova that much more expensive than Vanderbilt? And doesn't Nova require a deposit also?
Villanova wanted $500 a few days after admitting me back in December, which I paid since they were the first to get back to me.
Not sure about the cost of living. I am just going off of what I have read here in other threads.
Congrats KKS,
And I'd take Vanderbilt if you'd prefer Southern/Southwest IB. Peronally, I'd take Vandy, but I want to work in Houston.
But yeah, Villanova will place better into NYC.
Villanova is going to be about as expensive as Vanderbilt. Maybe Vandy is a little cheaper, but not going to be a major difference.
So now you are going to go $1,500 into the hole and then have WUSTL and/or MIT come back and make offers and want demands.
All of these programs are different, with different campuses and different placements. I can understand taking MIT above all else, but there shouldn't be a debate about Vandy - Nova - WUSTL.
It's a pretty easy answer between the two. Do you want to work in the Southeast or NYC/Philly?
Obviously you could break into ny market from Vandy and vice-versa, but each program predominantly places you into a certain region. Both schools have a good bit of alumni on the street, I would think more nova, but not sure. I can vouch for nova alum being extremely helpful. Also, if your gunning for straight IB positions, I think Vandy has a good cachet in Charlotte boutiques.
This shouldn't even be a debate. Vandy >>>> Nova.
Vandy vs. Nova
They are both regional.. but nationally which would rank higher? If I go to Boston, La, SF, Chicaca, NY, Atlanta, and Austin which would be more recognizable?
Vandy. And it isn't even debatable. Nova is a no name outside of Philly/NYC.
Vandy has a better presence in NYC than some give it credit for. I know a few guys at BB in S&T and a few at HFs.
Nova if you want Philly/NYC
Vandy if you like down south more. Really simple.
The campuses are different. The program structure is different. Villanova has a lock step program with classes only for MSF students. Vanderbilt uses more MBA classes so you can customize this.
Pros - You can study with more flexibility.
Cons - You are in MBA classes which are less in depth and you might not get the super tight bond you will get in a cohort program.
Nashville sounds awesome, but is hard to find an internship in. You are also far from NYC. Villanova you can intern in Philly and be in NYC or DC in an hour and change (maybe like 2 for DC). If you need an internship then this might be an issue. If you want to network in NYC every weekend, which Nova students do, then being in Nashville might be a hindrance.
Vandy is about $10k more. Is money an issue? Villanova is a relatively small school in a rich area. Do you like small schools or something bigger?
These are all personal questions and need to be answered. Vanderbilts reputation really isn't any better than Villanovas. Their MSF programs are comparable.
Listen, I love both programs. I know the adcoms at both. I know students who have chosen nova over vandy and vandy over nova. This is something you need to decide. If you are going into this decision without knowing the answer to these questions you will find it difficult doing the things that are needed to secure a job once in whatever program you choose.
I actually hope I have this decision to make... Lets see how R3 goes
This kind of got into a Vandy vs. Nova debate, but if I were in your shoes I wouldn't care about dropping 1,000 to save a spot at Vandy. I'd do whatever it took to hold out until MIT. If that meant pissing away 1,000 dollars then so be it. That MIT name is as prestigious as it gets and you'll recoup that 1,000 with a sweet job after graduation.
If MIT dings you, then you'll still have a spot at one of the best MSF programs.
Agree. This is an MIT vs. everyone else thread. Nova - Vandy - WUSTL is about fit and what you like. The brand and OCR benefits or differences are deminimus.
I agree with you about MIT, but paying the $1,000 makes no sense, unless Vandy is my backup to MIT. If MIT dings me, I will have to make that decision (Nova or Vandy) anyway. I might as well make it now.
And no one is saying Vanderbilt isn't a reputable name. I just think you are placing too much emphasis on it.
As a Villanova alumni I freely admit the limitation of the brand and reputation. As a Vanderbilt alumni you ought to also.
Peinvestor completely detracted from this thread and forced TNA to have to try and defend insignificant talking points. The MSF is a professional graduate degree, not a degree leading to a PhD. In other words nobody cares about the school rank if they can get a job afterward.
In fact there are many cases where you get a much higher ROI by going to a "lower ranked" university that excels at placing in the graduate department you're pursuing. Do you really care about having a marginally better name on your resume to miss out on career opportunities?
And you must be a Vandy grad to defend it like you do. FYI I said I was a nova MSF grad earlier. I have no UG alliance to the school and I know the adcoms at your school very well.
I've got no affiliation with Vandy. I just call it like it is. Nova is a mediocre school. Period.
Vandy is a Top 20 school and Owen is 50 times better than Nova. Even for MSF, they have a stronger alumni network.
That would be my choice. OP can do what he wants.
Vandy is attractive to me because its a new city/place, SEC sports, bigger school, I do feel it has a better national brand name as a whole(right or wrong), I have been in the northeast for almost 6 years and would like to get out of the snow eventually, andddd did I mention SEC sports (Vandy sucks, but they get to play bama, lsu, etc)
Villanova is attractive to me because of.. Location both because it is close to NYC, Philly, and DC; location because it is like 70 miles from me and would be an easy relocation, Internship opportunities during the program (HUGE for me giving what I am trying to do post MSF and because of my profile now), and cost as its 10k cheaper to begin with
Though it is interesting you brought UT up as a potential national presence. Is that because of the strength of the undergrad and strength of the MBA?
McCombs is a top UG and MBA b school. It is TX focused but will place well in TX and NYC
Settle down PE
Lol PE dropping the uninformed and biased post. Sorry man, but what you are saying is simply not true or backed up. Then again, this is America and everyone is entitled to their opinion, even incorrect ones.
I think as TNA has mentioned it all depends which region of the US you'd like to work in after your MSF. Please do not go to Vandy because they play (and get trounced) by big SEC football powerhouses. That's thinking like a 17 year old kid. I think they're both awesome schools.
I would seriously hope no one would do this, but then again...lol
Which has a greater number of alumni in banking: Vanderbilt or Villanova (Originally Posted: 06/08/2008)
Sorry if the answer is obvious...I am not from the USA.
So my Q is: Which school has a greater number of alumni in banking: Vanderbilt or Villanova? (Before anyone notes, I know these are not the first tier target schools.)
Both junior and senior level, and both in NYC and non-NYC locations (Texas, North Carolina, Atlanta).
I am also interested is smaller firms too, not just the BBs.
though not 1st tier targets, both have a good amount of alumni on the street. i'd say villanova has more of a presence in the nyc area because of its location. i can't speak for other areas of the country though.
i know bb's and smaller firms recruit at both - if you go to either and maintain a 3.5+ gpa, you'll have opportunities.
vanderbilt
Villanova has a number of alumni at both BBs and boutique firms. I know that Goldman, Deutsche and JPM all recruit for front office positions.
Having said that, if you are in the process of deciding between these two schools note that they are completely different atmospheres. PM me with questions regarding Villanova.
Vandy probably has more alumni in NC, Atl, and Houston offices, but Villanova probably wins when it comes to NYC. Vanderbilt has a little more prestige as an overall school, but you should definitely pick on fit. As CatsLHP said, they are completely different in atmosphere, and from personal experience, I've never felt that Vanderbilt was a very international-friendly school. Much more southern, frat-boy oriented, whereas Villanova, with its location, would probably be a better fit.
I've never seen Villanova on a ranking list.
Villanova has a very strong alumni network on Wall Street. All of the BB recruit for front office positions at Villanova. As others have mentioned I think that it also has an advantage on location. As for atmospheres I can't speak to that, but if you are deciding on career ops only, then I think Villanova would def be the right call.
An to indian-banker comment, I know that Villanova was ranked the 12th best undergrad b-school. I believe it has also has been on other rankings as well.
Go with Vandy.
At least 2-4 people in each class are from there. I might see 1 person from Nova in the analyst facebooks.
Also I'll take Nashville over Philly anyday of the week. Visit both schools, and you'll probably understand what I'm saying.
Which class you mean? NYC? So you are saying that even in NYC Vandy has an edge? Or just southern offices?
Vandy has way more social prestige, probably better for networking
I agree with ginNtonic. Even in NYC, I would say Vandy has the edge. Nobody really views Villanova as an academic powerhouse, while Vandy is a strong school nation-wide.
Vandy's a better school, end of story.
I never saw a Nova student at my internships. I did see Vandy students. Anecdotal, but probably telling.
A. I think it's pretty retarded to choose a school based on banking exit ops
B. Vandy is a Top 20 school, Top 20 party school (playboy), and a sweet 16 basketball team (I'll take SEC football/basketball over Big East anyday)
C. Warm weather, Nashville is a fun city, and all of the girls are hot (and scored over 1400 on the SATs)
D. It's actually a very highly-respected school (at least everyone in NYC knows of it), and a lot of people I know passed on Ivyies for Vandy, because of B. and C.
Villanova MSF or Vanderbilt MSF (Originally Posted: 04/09/2010)
Hello all,
First time poster on WSO here. Anyhow, I have been admitted to both of these programs and have to choose soon. I am mostly interested in equity or fixed income research. Which of these two options do you think will provide the highest chance of landing such a job?
Thanks for the advice.
Had a friend get an associate spot at a good MM out of Vandys MSF program.....I realize your interested in reseach, but I'm sure Vandy would be fine for that.
Message AnthonyD1982. He is a Nova MSF student and would be happy to answer all your questions.
Hi..Mr. machineman82
I would say whatever you opted to study (equity or fiexed income research) are at parity to give you opportunity in getting your dream job as long as you like doing what you're studying :D
And as for the place, I would say Villanova can be your first option as the uni provides so much for their students through their strcit requirement. For example, Villanova strongly discouraged full time work for students undertaking full time study in MSF.
If you wish to know more experience about people studyign in Villanova, you can check our website in http://businessbecause.com/why-i-chose/why-i-chose-villanova-school-of-…
You also can join businessbecause and get to know more ppl in other business schools across the world. Moreover, you can exchange experiences studying business ^__^
ps: you also can add me in businessbecause (Ni Wayan Dharkanti)
All the best for your future study
Can anyone else comment on these two programs? Thanks in advance...
vanderbilt isn't that in Tennessee? Wtf is that the blue grass state? who the hell wants to live there. what northeast big city would even recruit there for OCR?
No damn employer wants to fly into Tennessee unless Elvis comes back from the dead.
Vandy no d.
No summa classez = opportunity for internship.
Barbarian, can you please translate that in English? Thanks.
Vandy no doubt? No summer classes = opportunity for internship
I went to Vanderbilt for my undergraduate degree and can tell you that there are a good amount of recruiters (M/B/B, BB, etc.) from the Northeast.
Nashville is a great place to live but more importantly, you can be recruited for jobs in Atlanta, Charlotte, and other regional financial hot spots.
I admit, I have no love for 'nova. That being said, in terms of recruiting, I don't think nova has any presence for grad level roles. I'm sure there are plenty of monkeys from 'nova.
I'd suggest looking at the recruiting stats for both programs, and I'm confident that Vandy will have an enormous advantage.
I go to Nova. Message me and we can chat. I can put you in contact with a kid who went to Villanova for UG and is now in the Vanderbilt MSF. Figure that will be a solid counter weight to any pro-Nova comments I might have.
When I was looking at MSF programs I really just looked at BC, Vandy and Villanova. All three are about comparable in my opinion and all have their strengths and weaknesses.
Vandy had some decent OCR from what I remember. Places pretty well down south. I took this from their website: http://owen.vanderbilt.edu/vanderbilt/Programs/msfinance/msfinance-succ…
Honestly, I am going to assume since they put this on the programs website they consider this to be their "all stars" so to speak. I mean if Vandy places 100% into Goldman Sachs they would advertise that, correct? Villanova has alumni doing the same or better.
I will say this about Villanova. I was not a natural fan. Now that I am finished with the program I must say I am proud to list it on my resume. Program really incorporates suggestions and changes. Villanova's MBA program is all for people already with a job so the MSF is where all the focus goes. If you want corporate finance you will be surrounded by people working in that field so it isn't hard to go that route. Plenty of finance and F500 companies in Philadelphia and the surrounding area. The strongest thing is really the alumni base. Very helpful and all over in the financial community. Obviously not as deep and high level as say Wharton alumni, but if you cannot find a mid/senior level Villanova alumni at almost every single bank you are not looking hard enough. OCR is fine, mainly middle market IB and stuff. Bear and Lehman recruited heavily here so the school took a little hit. Things are picking up with the economy so I think you will be fine. Either way message me and we can talk further.
I can speak to the Villanova Alumni community, I had no finance work experience and as Sophomore an Alum opened a summer intern spot for me on his team at a BB.
..
Associate
Nova alum are crazy good. Will go to bat and will get you FO interviews.
If you can get an internship go to Vandy. If you cant go to Nova. Purty simple.
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