QT internship at market maker vs. full-time role at top BB trading desk?
Hi all,
Currently in a position where I have QT summer internship offers at prop market makers, e.g., firms like Optiver, Virtu, SIG, etc. I also have a FT offer at a derivatives trading desk at a top BB, i.e. one of GS/MS/JPM, that requires me to graduate one year early (which I can).
Which one would you choose? The MM route is definitely more appealing, both in terms of lifestyle and compensation, but there is of course a tradeoff between a summer internship vs. a full-time role. The former has some uncertainty surrounding receiving a return offer and being able to re-recruit if no RO, while the latter is a more stable position at a top vol trading desk.
Appreciate any and all thoughts. Thanks in advance.
Based on the most helpful WSO content, here are some key considerations for your decision:
Quant Trading Internship at Market Makers (Optiver, Virtu, SIG, etc.):
Full-Time Role at a Top BB Trading Desk (GS/MS/JPM):
Decision Factors:
Conclusion:
Hope this helps!
Sources: What offers would you take over a BB S&T?, Q&A: MBB, BB S&T+IB, Top MBA, US/Global, Centerview vs. Jane Street vs. Meta, https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/trading/qa-1st-year-bb-london-rates-trader-taking-your-questions?customgpt=1, https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/job-search/qa-undergraduate-quantitative-trading-decision-process-advice?customgpt=1
I feel like the first thing to research is the return offer rates at said market maker.
Depends on your background too. Generally if more technical and think you can succeed at it then I’d pick the internship- but if softer background then BB safer.
Background is math and CS double at a HYPSM. To be honest pretty confident in my technicals, but then again everyone at these internships probably is haha
Very true, trying to do that now. Seems like many of these firms both have variable return offer rates year over year and will cut a varying amount of first years too, which I’m considering.
Heavily depends on the BB desk. Would lean towards BB if Rates Vol due to exits. Otherwise, MM might have better pay/wlb and can exit to BB, while BB could be a pigeonhole.
Equity derivs desk
To be transparent, it would be easier moving from BB -> Market Maker Institutional Trading desk than moving from QT doing electronic OMM on screens -> BB as a block trader.
Most of those market making firms actually are hiring in small for those institutional trading seats from banks or other competitors. IMC's broker desk is MASSIVELY hiring and looking to take on positions.
Optiver has institutional trader seat, and CitSec's equity block desk is picking up more traction. I would not lean on QT at OMM -> BB exit to be something easy or set in stone, additionally you'd lose massive pay + move to much more of a beaurocratic environment with worse WLB. Something you wouldn't really do unless you got fired, which they will also know if you're on equities and did your FINRA stuff.
So moving from Optiver QT -> BB Associate is something that doesn't really happen as the norm. Regardless of how smart the QT candidate is/was or what offers they had previously, after some YoE or getting fired happens, everything changes.
Can you explain why choose rates vol over other vol desks? Thanks
Man, the environment for ROs is so fucking bad right now that I'm highly leaning toward telling you to graduate early and take the BB vol desk.
Given you have multiple offers if the QT offers are from: DRW, Optiver, SIG, CitSec, JS, I'd check in to see RO rates (Pretty sure all of these are 50 except SIG) for bit of a quick check.
Training will be better at every MM, early-career pay will be better, mid-career pay will be better most likely, and only those sell-side traders who move to a HF have the potential upside of those mid 7-8 figure bonuses. The style of trading there can also be very different.
Very options theory, game theory, flow focused stuff being on a block desk compared to a QT market making role sitting in the seat of the vol-adjusting plane as you fly.
Considering the OMM starts in the Summer and I know that Optiver/SIG at least prefer you to start in the same Summer cohort, if you continued school instead of graduating early, you'd be 1-1.5 years ahead right? At that point if you didn't like the BB style a few firms would definitely be open to taking you still, mainly CitSec re: interviews.
I think I'd go with the BB FT, unless you have interest in extending your academic career. Firstly, you never know what the market will look like next year. It could be a terrible year where lots of experienced folks are out of work, and offers are getting cancelled. Not predicting anything, but just saying. Secondly, I think that the bank job is more relationship driven and less specialized, and therefore in some ways less risky. Markets are fickle, and I'd rather have a broader skillset and more flexibility. But that's me. I've worked in both types of job fwiw, and now I do something completely different.
I'd bet $10 S&T job market is going to be terrible next year. My old mentor has already lost his gig and many others he knows.
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