2010 Investment Banking Associate Bonuses at BB

lisa's picture
Rank: Chimp | 4

Folks,

Its about that time of year to start discussing Associate bonuses! Keeping this thread to IBD associate bonuses at bulge bracket firms.

From what I am hearing top end bonus (not total comp) at Morgan Stanley and JPM in coverage groups are below.

Class of 2008: $225K
Class of 2007: $300K
Class of 2006: $375K

Could someone confirm/deny if this is accurate?

Comments (74)

Jan 16, 2010

I think those numbers are a bit high for a first year Associate and I believe 2007 had a higher payout than 2006.

Jan 16, 2010
ixjunitxi:

I think those numbers are a bit high for a first year Associate and I believe 2007 had a higher payout than 2006.

I believe OP means 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year bonuses, all for year 2009.

  • Child Please.
Jan 16, 2010

Yes, I meant 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year bonuses, all for year 2009 - sorry should have been clearer.

Seems like the general consensus is that these "rumor" numbers are too high ....

Jan 16, 2010

thats a big high ...

Jan 16, 2010

lol 2 people is the general consensus..you should not be doing finance related work.

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Jan 16, 2010
eliteculture:

you should not be doing finance related work.

eliteculture, I have already spent more time (3 years as analyst and now 3 years as associate) at a top tier investment bank. That is more than you ever will for the entirety of your life, so quit with the stupid unhelpful response.

Thanks everyone else for your comments

Jan 16, 2010

i think your numbers are higher by about 10-15%.. first yr top assoc expected to be around US$190 -200k at BB. Biggr Q is how much will be in cash vs. stock. anyone heard anything?

Jan 16, 2010

How long do you have to hold the stock for? Can you sell it right away?

Jan 16, 2010

From last year's stock payouts to associates, the stock vests fully in about 3 yrs

Jan 16, 2010

these numbers are way too high

Jan 16, 2010

If these are top end bonus then they maybe correct. I am hearing median all-in class of 2008 numbers of 280 and class of 2007 median of 330. Wouldnt be surprised is top end is 50-60K above median....
so a bit below 2006/2007 comp levels but the real issue this yr is deferred comps which i have heard will be a much bigger portion of comps

Jan 16, 2010

given the recent announcements by BAC and JPM, i highly doubt that this year we will see numbers close to 2007. if we do, it will be because of the unvested stock component which you can pretty much ignore unless you plan on spending your entire working career at the bank. funny money...

Jan 16, 2010

3 years = entire working career? Can you please explain to a noob such as myself?

Jan 16, 2010

the stock grant every year has a 3 year vesting so in 3 years you will be vested on the stock received this year but you will not be vested on the stock received from now till then. in other words you will always be unvested on a very large portion of your income - especially considering the increase in income from associate to vp to director.

Jan 17, 2010

We don't get our number for a few more weeks, but those ranges seem high. The rumor mill internally has suggested something just short of 2007, but with MUCH more stock and less of a normal distribution between ratings buckets. I'd personally be very happy even if those ranges were 25% too high.

Jan 16, 2010

25% lower sounds probably about right for all-in for the median bucket. i think we will see a top bucket that is pretty high but with very few people in it and a lot of dispersion with some people getting really hosed. also this year will be see a big difference across firms - a lot of the middle markets and boutiques did not have that good of a year and will def not keep up pace on the top buckets with the bulge brackets. the median bucket might be similar.
this stock shit blows really bad...

Jan 17, 2010

Just curious, but can the OP comment on the source of those initial ranges?

Did it come from your staffer? Comment by an MD? Another Associate? Rumor mill feels exceptionally quiet this year. Am wondering about the potential source credibility.

Jan 16, 2010

What would happen, lets say, if you were fired before the stocks vested? No money?

Jan 19, 2010

Probably nothing would happen to the stock. You'd own it just the same, and you'd have to wait to liquidate just the same.

Jan 16, 2010

if you are laid off it vests immediately, if you are fired for a cause you lose it, if you quit before it vests you lose it. also you pay taxes as it vests, even though you may be restricted from selling it which is always fun...

Jan 16, 2010

That is funny. I guess the plus side is, if the stock goes up, you make more money.

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Jan 19, 2010

Hearing same thing for MS, ranges follow (supposedly from insider). Also heard Centerview got numbers that were inline with below. Most JPM gets numbers this week.

Class of 2008 - 190, 255, 280, 305

Class of 2007 - 230, 315, 340, 370

Class of 2006 - 300, 405, 430, 475

    • 1
Jan 19, 2010
HP12C:

Hearing same thing for MS, ranges follow (supposedly from insider). Also heard Centerview got numbers that were inline with below. Most JPM gets numbers this week.

Class of 2008 - 190, 255, 280, 305

Class of 2007 - 230, 315, 340, 370

Class of 2006 - 300, 405, 430, 475

is this all-in comp or just the bonus?

Jan 19, 2010

Sorry, yes all-in.

Jan 19, 2010

Also heard that if bonus less than $250 then 25% deferred, over $250 then 35% deferred. Also curious about what happens with bases.

Feb 11, 2010
HP12C:

Hearing same thing for MS, ranges follow (supposedly from insider). Also heard Centerview got numbers that were inline with below. Most JPM gets numbers this week.

Class of 2008 - 190, 255, 280, 305

Class of 2007 - 230, 315, 340, 370

Class of 2006 - 300, 405, 430, 475

are these all-in comp or just bonus? seem really high if it's just bonus

Jan 19, 2010

Was not able to confirm Centerview.

Jan 19, 2010

can anyone tell me what happened to assoc. joined in 2009 summer? how is their half-year bonus like in GS/MS/JPM please?

Jan 19, 2010

Just heard for JPM Assoc:
08 - 270 top, 136k cash, 34k deferred bump to 110k base
07 - 310 top, bump to 120k base

These are all in.

Heard JEFF assoc 0 got 40k stubs.

Jan 19, 2010

JEFF = Jefferies?

Jan 17, 2010

Are people at JPM pretty happy with those numbers? Seem pretty solid, though who knows what the 2nd highest rating bucket got relative to these numbers.

Why would they defer just $34K. I mean, I don't think many people are going to stick around slaving away just to earn their incremental $34K pre-taxes if they just got $136K cash and have a healthy base salary.

Jan 19, 2010

Ppl seem pretty pissed in my group. Our numbers were nothing close to MS's numbers. I'm a 2nd year associate and got a salary bump to $160K but bonus was $160k of which $32k was deferred. The deferred amount is the amt given in stock, think it's an appearance thing. I agree pretty small number, worse they gave analyst stock too which totally doesn't make sense.

Jan 17, 2010

jpmassociate, if you aren't at JPM, do you mind saying where you are (or at least comparable banks)? $160K does seem a bit light for a 2nd year, but that $160K base is pretty healthy, though I'm sure it doesn't soften the sting of below expectations numbers. I'd be pissed if they tried to rationalize a low bonus number by inflating the base salary.

Giving Analysts stock makes no sense they probably won't survive long enough to see the vesting period expire. On a related note, if you are in a group where Analysts received bonuses as well, is it fair to assume you are in a product group such as DCM/ECM or Global Rates?

Maybe the JPM #s mentioned above were for M&A or some coverage group.

Jan 19, 2010

I'm at JPM and in Global Rates. The base salary increase gets factored into next year's comp so can't quite rationalize. They did say it was because of the UK taxes but wouldn't say how much. Hoping for more data points to see how I fall in the range. EIther way definitely not being paid what they paid in year's past for a second yr associate, not even compared to last year!

Jan 17, 2010

Sh*t. That's rough if they're taking the UK tax impact out on U.S. employees. I guess it was unavoidable, but hate to see it happen to people at our level.

Jan 19, 2010

We were told they definitely did that at JPM. Read in the papers that UBS did it as well.

Jan 17, 2010

If you get other data points from coverage groups over the next few days, would you mind posting?

Jan 16, 2010

Heard that in Asia IBD for JPM, Assoc 1 (class of 08) full yr bonus top end is just shy of US$200k (stock component 20%). Add to base of US$115 - 120k (give or take fx rate), total comp = ~US$315k +

There are expected to be wide variations within brackets

Anyone else with data points?

Jan 20, 2010

To be above: yeah ... In terms of pay, Asia IBD > US IBD > London IBD

And that's not even adjusted for the lower taxes in Hong Kong and Singapore. If you adjust for taxes, the difference is even more stark.

Jan 20, 2010

Do all groups of the IB get the same bonus for each tier? Or for example, are Debt Capital Markets bonuses less than M&A bonuses?

Jan 20, 2010

Rumor has it that MS bonuses are a lot lower than expected. Can anyone confirm?

Jan 17, 2010

Can't confirm, but over at Dealbreaker, Morgan Stanley folks seem to be pretty pissed based on the comments they've posted. Tough to tell how authentic the commentators are over there though.

It's really hard to imagine that they could pay 50% of the bonus that JPM paid. Can't remember a time with that much disparity between investment banks in the same general tier.

Jan 21, 2010

Got an email from my buddy at Citi that they got screwed.

Jan 17, 2010

So it sounds like Goldman, Morgan and Citi got screwed? Did anyone get paid well besides JPM?

Jan 21, 2010

I'm surprised Goldman would get screwed. Banana when do you get your numbers?

Jan 17, 2010

Few more weeks. Apparently numbers have been approved internally, but are subject to Board approval.

Ratings have already been communicated.

Jan 21, 2010

Anyone have Citi numbers? And when do GS numbers come out?

Jan 16, 2010

Anyone have any perspective on what the elite boutiques will pay?

Jan 17, 2010

So, was it so bad that no one can bear to reveal their bonuses if they don't work for JPM?

Jan 22, 2010

What are well-know MM banks like HLHZ, Jeff, Piper, HW paying (all-in) for associates? 95-100 base + 100 bonus in the right ballpark are?

Jan 22, 2010

Go to your own shitty MM thread. This is for BB's only.

Feb 6, 2010
1styearBanker:

Go to your own shitty MM thread. This is for BB's only.

1styearbanker, you are a fucking total douchebag and this is coming from someone that knows you and is from the top tier bank of them all; and I can just tell you that you have no credibility on this site and you should just get lost

Better watch your ass

Feb 10, 2010
1styearBanker:

Go to your own shitty MM thread. This is for BB's only.

Can we seriously ban this guy?

"Whenever I'm about to do something, I think, 'Would an idiot do that?' And if they would, I do NOT do that thing."
-Dwight Schrute, "The Office"-

Jan 23, 2010

What were Goldman's numbers this year?

Jan 17, 2010

Anyone w/ more insight on Associate numbers across the street?

Jan 26, 2010

I think BAML and MS were the same for S&T and also research (I talk to research guys alot)

Jan 31, 2010

Anyone know numbers from GS, CS, Citi, DB, Barcap, UBS and CS? In line with JPM and MS?

Feb 5, 2010

Great thread. Anybody know how Associate bonuses in Equity Research look like this year at BB in NYC? I know we have our own forum but its dead over there.

Jan 22, 2010

Thanks troll, may I have another? Sorry about pushing your buttons I know it sucks working at a shitty MM shop like yours. Keep your head up champ!

Feb 6, 2010

just to comment on the UK tax issue. I read that DB is considering pulling out its HQ from London because of it. Maybe UK will re-consider its harsh treatment to bankers compensation.

Feb 6, 2010

You're only pushing your own buttons loser, I'm having quite a good time slamming you punk.

Better watch your ass

Feb 10, 2010

Be nice. 1styearanalyst is probably feeling irritable because his bank received extraordinary assistance and he had a weak year to boot so he's getting less than the folks at the MMs.

Feb 10, 2010

slammaster - please post 1styearbanker's name and where he works please

Feb 10, 2010

MS associate 40k stub 1st year vp is 375-600k 2nd year asso is 200-300 3rd year asso is 300-400

reliable

Feb 20, 2011
InassessableTangents:

MS associate 40k stub 1st year vp is 375-600k 2nd year asso is 200-300 3rd year asso is 300-400

reliable

This sounds high--is this all in or bonus only?

Feb 6, 2010

I have a few of these bastards names. May be able to PM you on this, but I may publish in a post. I'm working on getting a few more. Could be legal action too, from a few PMs I got.

Better watch your ass

Feb 10, 2010

Please keep us in the loop.

Feb 6, 2010

I may not be able to due to legal ramifications. But it will all come out.

Better watch your ass

Feb 14, 2010

Does anyone know about the bonuses at BAML and WF specifically? I am interested especially after reading this article.

"Bank of America this year changed the way it awards bonuses to investment bankers, in an attempt to tie pay more closely to performance. The bonuses that Bank of America will award Monday will generally be about 25 percent cash and 75 percent tied to stock, said spokesman Bob Stickler.

The higher-ranking bankers will be paid the least cash, with some getting as little as 5 percent cash.

Also this year, the bank put "clawbacks" on employees in global markets and global trading, provisions that allow for reclaiming bonuses if failings surface later.

Stickler said that, on average, investment banking bonuses for 2009 performance will be higher than those awarded for 2008 performance, a down year. But they will be lower than most previous years.

He declined to comment on the size of the bonus pool, though some reports, citing unnamed sources, have said the bank will pay investment-banking employees from a bonus pool of about $4.4 billion, or an average of $400,000 each. "

"Employees at Wells Fargo won't get their bonuses until next month, but the bank says that its total pool for bonus and commission pay is up about 66 percent over last year.

According to its latest earnings report, Wells had $8 billion in its pool for total bonuses and commissions, up from $4.8 billion last year for the combined bank. Those numbers include year-end bonuses for bankers as well as commissions for mortgage consultants and stockbrokers. However, some of that money has already been paid out, because commissions are awarded on a monthly or quarterly basis.

Wells reported a profit of about $8 billion in 2009, counting preferred dividend payments."

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/business/story/12...

Jan 17, 2010

WF bonuses aren't communicated for another week or two. All the rumors appear to suggest very strong levels, but who knows what will actually get paid and what consideration mix will be.

Feb 24, 2010
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