All, WSO has been a great resource for me during my path to break into banking. I wanted to give back by doing a Q&A given that I'm ramping down my current work load since I'm starting in a month. A quick background: I went to a non-target school, went into a non-big 4 firm (Houlihan, A&M, etc.) to do TAS. After 1.5 years, got an offer from a lesser-known MM bank.
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First off, congratulations! How were your marks and experience during school that helped you get into a non-big 4 firm? Did you simply just receive an offer, or did you network/apply for it?
Thanks! I had a 3.5+ during school so GPA wasn't an issue. I did a lot as far as extra-cirrculars were concerned - starting clubs, leadership positions in others, trying to work with the school administration to improve certain pieces of the cirriculum / student experience, etc.
I had an advisory Big 4 offer which I leveraged into the non-big 4 firm offer. I talked to one analyst in the group but that's it for networking. I think the thing that helped me in the final round was show a real interest in the TAS group. I also did my homework about what it would be like, the work, etc.
Congrats man! Can you expand a bit upon what your resume looked like when you graduated? Also do you think it would have been easier to brake into IB by going into Big 4 TAS vs non Big 4? Also with exit opps outside IB (consulting, PE, Corp Dev) do you think it would have been easier from Big 4 TAS vs non Big 4?
Thanks! I had a 2 internships in accounting-related functions, a high GPA, and good-to-great extracurriculars.
As for Big 4 vs. non Big 4, the big 4 name obviously helps you get your foot in the door better than a non-big 4 shop (although I would argue the difference is small since everyone in IB has heard of Houlihan, Alvarez & Marshall, etc.). The experience I had was much better than Big 4 given the type of projects, responsibility, and types of clients (YMMV).
For outside of IB, the same applies but I'd say Big 4 has better name recognition and would get you in the door over a non-big 4 firm.
In the end, my experience with some high profile public clients were major selling points during my interviews.
PS: when I say non-big 4 firm, I'm talking about the large international financial services firms, not a small 100 man TAS shop.
Congrats!
What was your major during school? I'm trying to decide between finance/economics or a finance/accounting double majors. Is accounting necessary?
I did accounting and truthfully took 1-2 actual finance courses and they were generally garbage. I did a lot of self-studying on finance concepts (EV vs. equity value, DCFs, EBITDA, etc.) which helped in my interviews for TAS.
I haven't started banking yet so can't comment there but it's been helpful in TAS. I have a better understanding of how things flow through the financials than a finance major does but they knew more about finance concepts. I'd say do finance / accounting but in the end, you'll learn on the job.
I would also add that while you may think the difference is huge, nobody really cares if you majored in finance/econ for finance/accounting. do whatever is easier to get a better grade in / what you're interested in.
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I networked a lot with various banks (mostly targeted MM / EBs since I assumed BBs would be less receptive to my background. Got to final rounds with a few other MM's / EBs but ultimately they took kids who were at boutiques looking to move to a better bank.
I'd suggest using linkedin to search for people in the groups / offices you're targeting. It's especially helpful if you have the connection before you apply so then you can follow up and tell them you did.
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I was in the valuation part more so than FDD so people knew that I could do valuation but weren't sure if I understood the deal process. I was able to study up on it just enough to talk about it on a high level but obviously don't know the nuances of it. I said that banks didn't come to my non-target school and I've been trying to do banking for a little bit and that i knew my tas job would get me there. I'm basically starting as a first year analyst but I imagine that there may be an opportunity for quicker responsibility since I have a good footing on the valuation aspect although it'll be a learning curve about the M&A process.
I'm going into banking assuming I'll do 2 years analyst then do PE but who knows. I've always thought I'd go to b school but i have a few years before needing to make that decision. I don't think I would lateral to a larger shop considering my bank is a solid MM although lesser known. I don't need / want to be MF PE and don't need to brag about a $20B M&A deal that would only happen at larger banks.
I would say just reach out to people periodically. It's better when you have a current relationship with them before you tell them you've applied to their firm. The process is very random so I basically took the first offer I got and cancelled other banks that I was in the interview process with. I had a few recruiters (Selby Jennings sucks, btw) but they were largely useless. I got my current offer from just applying and networking.
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Congrats!
How different is the pay from Big 4 to MM IB?
I've heard stories of the huge difference but I would like to know from someone in MM IB.
I'm following the same path, currently in TAS at Big 4.
How different is the culture?
Any tips?
I didn't come from Big 4 so can't comment on that.
I was making (depending on bonuses) between 65-80k at my val shop but the hours were pretty long for that money. I'll be making ~110k+ for the banking role all in so from a compensation stand point, definitely a move up.
I haven't started yet so can't comment on the culture.
Congratulations! Can you expand on what your role was as TAS can mean different things at different places.. Valuations, Due diligence?
I did valuation but also had opportunities to do FDD. Ultimately, I thought valuation had more transferable skills to banking but both are a good starting point.
FWIW, I've personally seen more people go from val -> IB than FDD -> IB.
ok cool. yeah I definitely think the modeling skills gained would be transferable. how did you reflect this in you resume? like describing engagements as separate deals that you were a part of?
What kind of skills do MM IB shops look for? Risk training, valuation, modeling? All of the above?
Let me preface this by saying I don't think MM vs. BB vs. EB's look for different skills. Boutiques are where there may be a difference in skill set depending on how many people are at the firm, back end resources, etc.
Overall, I think banks are looking for three things:
The third one may be geared more towards lateral hires vs. undergrads.
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