Best Foreign Language to Learn for IB

Hi guys!

I have already read a ton of threads about foreign languages but I am still unsure about which one (or if) should I learn.

I speak Greek (I am from Greece), English and some German and I am interesting to learn another language useful in IB.

I am now among Portuguese, Japanese and German.

Some points about:

Portuguese:
pros:
-easy to learn
-IB soars in Brazil
-Brazil is a nice country with a western culture (the only BRIC)
-few people speak English fluently

cons:
-not very useful outside Brazil
-a European language pretty useless in Europe

Japanese:
pros:
-Japan is still one of the wealthiest countries ( and will remain in the near future)
-Japanese people will impressed if a white guy can speak Japanese
-I love Japan and its culture

cons:
-only in Japan
-hard enough to learn
-not so easy to get a job in Japan

German:
pros:
-I know already some
-DB, UBS, CS
-Germany is Europe's largest economy

cons:
-almost all Germans (Swiss and Austrians too) speak fluently English
-Frankfurt looks quite dull comparing with other financial hubs (London, Tokyo, NY)

I am looking forward for any advice you have for me in order to make the right choice and I am open to hear about other languages too, except the three ones above.

 

I think you should work on your American English skills first.

Love how people like blastoise and mudkipz are banned but people like this run rampant and start 100+ reply threads. Sigh.

Calm down.
 

Why don't you tell us where you want to work & what kind of work you want to do?

In regards to Brazil, I disagree. I know quite a few Brazilians in my line of work who are fluent in English. Several of them got their MBA's from top institutions in the US or Europe, so people like them are are naturally ahead of you in the pecking order. Also, deal flow in Brazil is significantly lower compared with the commodity boom years of 2007-2010 (i.e. ECM deals -59% vs 2010, -25% vs 2009).

As for Japanese, unless you have native Japanese fluency for specialist roles, you won't need it outside of Japan.

All the world's indeed a stage, And we are merely players, Performers and portrayers, Each another's audience, Outside the gilded cage - Limelight (1981)
 

Do not waste your time.

Two Reasons:

  1. English is the language of international business and finance.

  2. There are so many people who are in IB now who are native speakers of a multitude of different languages that you are fighting an uphill battle with. A major bank (either U.S. based or not) is not going to hire a kid from the U.S. with a Harvard MBA who also speaks Portugese when they can hire a native Brazilian with a Harvard MBA (who oviously speaks English as well as being a native Pgs speaker).

The amount of foreign nationals who are educated in the United States (and Europe) is staggering, especially when compared to how many there were even 15 or 20 years ago. What would really be valuable is bringing a STEM background to the table, espcially if you want to work in a Tech, Industrials, Healthcare or Oil & Gas coverage group.

 
FormerHornetDriver:

Do not waste your time.

2. There are so many people who are in IB now who are native speakers of a multitude of different languages that you are fighting an uphill battle with. A major bank (either U.S. based or not) is not going to hire a kid from the U.S. with a Harvard MBA who also speaks Portugese when they can hire a native Brazilian with a Harvard MBA (who oviously speaks English as well as being a native Pgs speaker).

The amount of foreign nationals who are educated in the United States (and Europe) is staggering, especially when compared to how many there were even 15 or 20 years ago. What would really be valuable is bringing a STEM background to the table, espcially if you want to work in a Tech, Industrials, Healthcare or Oil & Gas coverage group.

Scandal:

You're not going to be proficient enough to use the language in IB unless you're a native speaker. Even fluent is not enough.

+1

 
Best Response

Okay, let's stop this nonsense.

You're not going to be proficient enough to use the language in IB unless you're a native speaker. Even fluent is not enough.

In this thread, you can't even spell English words properly, and have several grammatical errors. I highly doubt you can obtain an IB job with these language skills. Now imagine you're taking on an additional language - you're not going to get nearly as much experience with it since you're not using it daily or interacting with people who speak it. Also, for any languages that you didn't grow up learning, you'll miss some of the crucial cultural speak and other slang, no matter how hard you try to learn them.

Finally, think about your job in IB: looking for grammar/spelling errors, correcting pitchbooks, building models, admin, interacting with everyone. How can you do this with anything other than a native command of the English language or whichever language you choose to learn? If you mistake EBIT for EBITDA or screw up the client's name, you're going to get fired on the spot.

You should work on mastering the languages you know; learning a new language is a lifelong process that requires dedication and total immersion.

Calm down.
 

@Scandal I am working on now and I am going to take TOEFL and GMAT this year. I know that I have a weak grammar. Maybe the best choice is to make perfect my English.

@Red_Barchetta I want to work in IB. The truth is that I am mostly interested in US or other English-speaking countries. I want to learn a foreign language that would be useful in NY or London.

@Sullivan I think Spanish and Chinese are overrated and also there are many natives in US.

 

London is the third biggest city in terms of French population, including everywhere in France itself.

'Corruption? Corruption is government intrusion into market efficiencies in the form of regulations. That's Milton Friedman. He got a goddamn Nobel Prize.'
 

L

'Corruption? Corruption is government intrusion into market efficiencies in the form of regulations. That's Milton Friedman. He got a goddamn Nobel Prize.'
 

@Bolty

I believe that's your best choice; not to discourage you from learning a new language, but you should only do it if it's a burning interest you know you won't lose in the near-term. I hate to see people who pick up a language, get bored or don't have time, and drop it - you end up basically wasting all that time for nothing other than a gimmick when you're abroad.

Calm down.
 

Learning a language for IB or business in general is overrated imo. Especially if its Chinese/Japanese/Korean, all those countries are incredibly insular and rely heavily on connections. Even if you are ethnically Chinese and are perfectly fluent in Chinese but were born/grew up outside of China they would still consider you a foreigner.

 

@Scandal

I agree with you and even I have a great interest for learning a new language I think that I should improve my English first. Thanks for mentioning my mistakes and make me to thing about spending more time for my English.

 

I'm not being rude here, focus on perfecting your English. There's still a lot of mistakes in your original post and as it is, it is not of sufficient standard to conduct business in. Focus on something else is my view such as studying for the GMAT and going for a 700+ score. English is the language of business, if they need someone to speak another language for them they'll hire an interpreter who is significantly less likely to make a mistake.

 

Seriously, stick with perfecting your English, especially as you mentioned the US or the UK as your target locations.

All the world's indeed a stage, And we are merely players, Performers and portrayers, Each another's audience, Outside the gilded cage - Limelight (1981)
 

Bolty,

While there are a number of people in this thread pointing out your mistakes, don't get discouraged. Your English skills are quite good. The few mistakes you've made are VERY common mistakes made by non-native English speakers. Also, I know a lot of non-native speakers that are very good in conversation while weak in written forms of communication. A lot of it depends on how you've practiced and learned.

Outside of the comments above, I'll mention one thing regarding Brazil. If you look at the job postings for many of the "elite" jobs there (such as MBB consulting), they require fluency in English, Portuguese, AND Spanish. So if you're looking to work in Brazil, I suspect you'll need to learn both Portuguese AND Spanish before you're on par with your competition. Best of luck.

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

If you're aiming for a position in London (not just at DB, UBS or CS), then "fluency" in multiple European languages is definitely a plus. Since you already know some German, why don't you hone your German skills? Mastering German will open additional doors for you in Europe (not just in Germany).

Btw, I think you're dreaming about Japan. - It may be the 3rd largest economy in the world, but the so-called lost two decades really hit their quality of life. Also, Tokyo was replaced by HK as Asia's financial hub.
- Regardless of your Japanese skills, most Japanese girls will jump all over you if you look decent. Also, the number of foreigners who speak Japanese has significantly increased over the past 10-15 years, and their fluency also improved. - You can work in S&T in Japan even if you don't speak the language.

 

@CompBanker

Thanks for your comment. I am really better in speaking and reading than writing, as I am not write very often. I am working on now and I am going to take TOEFL and GMAT this year. You said above that for Brazil I will need both Spanish and Portuguese. That means that my focus would be LatAmer (and English speaking countries too). Do you think that this is a good choice for someone intresting in IB or German would be a better choice (Which market it is better for IB)?

@Puss

My first thinking was to take German but I dont know if that is a good choice as almost all Germans speak fair English.

 
Bolty:

@Puss

My first thinking was to take German but I dont know if that is a good choice as almost all Germans speak fair English.

Well, I don't know how many years you have left to study a new language, but honestly competing for a coveted spot in Latin American desk / office in banking would be challenging to say the least unless you gain full professional proficiency. The same applies to other languages as well.

In my opinion, you should focus on perfecting your English because English (both written and spoken) is absolutely mandatory in banking. Why don't you apply to banks in London? You're already authorized to work in the UK, and I imagine your Greek language skills will be viewed favorably. Additional knowledge of languages is a plus but there are more important things for you to consider (reputable university, GPA, valuation skills, etc.)

I'm by no means discouraging you to study a new language but just don't do it in hopes of breaking into a regional office.

 
Bolty:

CompBanker

Thanks for your comment. I am really better in speaking and reading than writing, as I am not write very often. I am working on now and I am going to take TOEFL and GMAT this year. You said above that for Brazil I will need both Spanish and Portuguese. That means that my focus would be LatAmer (and English speaking countries too). Do you think that this is a good choice for someone intresting in IB or German would be a better choice (Which market it is better for IB)?

You're still thinking about this all wrong. There are IB opportunities all over the world. It is unlikely that a language you start learning now will enable you to get an IB job in the region where that language is spoken. So please do not try to pick a language based on how much IB activity is conducted in that region. Instead, pick a language based on your desire to travel or perhaps live in that region. Did you read the links that Scandal posted above? I highly recommend you do so if you have not yet.
CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

@CompBanker

Thanks for the advise. I have read the links Scandal posted before start that thread. I just wanted to know what people here in wso thinks about in order to decide what to do. I will stick to English and other things for now.

 

That's not true. I just saw a job posting at CS for "Analyst, IBD Greece & Cyprus" in their London office. It says fluency in Greek and Eng is essential. It sounds like a perfect role for you.

 

Ted Mosby,

Fluency =/= native. You'll make careless errors w/ your spelling/grammar, but you're still considered fluent.

Common misperception is that you don't have to speak Japanese and still work in S&T in Japan - while this may be true for the middle office roles, the FO roles, unless you're a sales trader, still require at least business level Japanese. Language fluency is pretty much required unless you work for a foreign firm in Japan, now more than ever after Abenomics and an influx of overseas and Japanese-speaking candidates coming to Japan.

Calm down.
 

Well if you consider fluency in a way that you are still making multiple errors I agree.. But you don't have to be a native in order to master a language completely. Having your entire university degree in English or living in an English speaking country gives you a great platform to master the language completely up to the level of a native speaker.

 

Ted Mosby,

Except you'll never get the accents correct/recognize some of the more subtle aspects of the language. For example, Americans who learn Mandarin can become fluent, but they'll never reach native level because they'll still have some semblance of their American English accent. Same thing w/ native Mandarin speakers and American English - everyone knows the Chinese accent all too well, and you can learn all the English you want but it'll still be obvious you aren't a native speaker.

Calm down.
 

This is all in the context of picking up a new language for work purposes - it'll take way too long for you to be at an acceptable level for business, and you'll get beaten out by native speakers all the time. Of course, you can definitely become fluent and near-native after years of study/practice, but that requires you to be speaking/learning it every single day, a luxury a lot of us in finance don't have.

Calm down.
 

@Scandal

Have to agree here (in a career context). Even if you were "fluent" in the local language & placed in an overseas office, do you really think you would get placed in front of important, local clients? Doubtful. They'll let the native sons/daughters handle that. I am fluent in Japanese & worked abroad for many years, yet my role was to cover US-based clients or English speaking regionals/locals.

All the world's indeed a stage, And we are merely players, Performers and portrayers, Each another's audience, Outside the gilded cage - Limelight (1981)
 

If I were you, concentrate on German. However, this will not automatically mean that you will be able to get a job in any of the German speaking countries. Especially in Frankfurt people are very anal about their perceived level of your German skills. Frankfurt isn't really a financial hub, maybe for the DACH region, but so much of that still comes out of London that Frankfurt is probably more of a regional office.

As for the rest, what about the portuguese & spanish combination? Would allow you to do business in Latin America etc. and these are much easier to learn to a business level than German.

I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing. See my Blog & AMA
 

Dude...there are Japanese-Americans, Russian-Americans, Chinese-Americans and Arab-Americans who are bilingual. Learning another language at this point isn't going to help you at all.

-------------------------------------------------- "Whenever I'm about to do something, I think, 'Would an idiot do that?' And if they would, I do NOT do that thing." -Dwight Schrute, "The Office"-
 

You want to really expand your horizons? Learn PHP or Ruby on Rails. These "languages" will open your brain up to a different type of problem solving, and will honestly probably help you relate to tomorrow's leaders more than any additional spoken language. Plus, you'll be able to create a website/web app (like WSO or Facebook) from scratch, which is pretty awesome, and easier than you think.

- Capt K - "Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
 
CaptK:
You want to really expand your horizons? Learn PHP or Ruby on Rails. These "languages" will open your brain up to a different type of problem solving, and will honestly probably help you relate to tomorrow's leaders more than any additional spoken language. Plus, you'll be able to create a website/web app (like WSO or Facebook) from scratch, which is pretty awesome, and easier than you think.

I second CaptK's suggestion. Scripting languages like PHP and Ruby with Rails framework is pretty easy to learn nowadays and useful. You don't need to be an expert at all but can add and "extra" skill to your repertoire.

Another good choice is Esperanto. Even George Soros is a native Esperanto speaker.

As for learning the other languages mentioned: Russian, Chinese (Mandarin), Indonesian, Japanese, etc. It will be much more difficult and challenging than learning Spanish and/or French. English is a mix of Germanic and Romance language. French, Spanish, Italian, etc. are romance languages. There's a lot of similarities among the mentioned Western languages syntax. I've only have brief exposure to Russian, but I've studied both Japanese and Mandarin Chinese. The way sentences are constructed are vastly different from English and a lot of Western languages. My friend speaks a variant of Russian and he was explaining sentence structure and it is very different from English.

My point is. Though it's fun to "learn" a language. But to truly master one is very difficult. Especially Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Arabic, etc. with vastly different syntax structures. My advice learn Esperanto and/or a simple scripting programming language.

----------------------------------------------------------------- Hug It Out
 

One tip that I got from a MD at a BB was that if I were not to master a certain language to the level of understanding its sophisticated jokes, do not attempt to learn it in the first place. It will not be of much help in the work place. If you have some different goals in mind(e.g. traveling, making friends), it can be a totally different story, though. That being said, I wholeheartedly agree with CaptK. If you have enough time to become a tri-lingual(since you're already bi-lingual), it might be better if you spend 1/10 of that time on learning several different programming languages.

 

why indonesian is a good language to learn:

a) easy language with latin alaphabet, someone with average intelligence can achieve business level fluency in 12 months - unless you have been learning since a young age, you will probably never achieve enough fluency in a character-based language like chinese, korean or japanese for it to be useful in a business context.

b) 250 million people live in indonesia, making it the 4th most populous country in the world.

as it is still a developing nation, the amount of people who are highly educated and speak business-level english is extremely limited. in any developed nation, people at the top are expected to speak english - this is not the case in indonesia.

also, thousands of chinese/etc immigrate to USA, get a top level education whilst maintaining fluency in there mother language and then come back to asia to work - it is very hard to compete against these people on the basis of language skills. this isn't as popular in indonesia yet, and those who do manage to "get out" generally have no intention of "comming back."

c) indonesia has the largest economy in south-east asia. whilst china and india yet all the media attention, indonesia is growing hard too. according to wikipedia (lol), the growth inbetween 2003 and 2006 was;

  • Badan Pusat Statistik provisionally valued the banking industry at 97,708,300 million rupiahs (~10500 million USD) in 2006 thus registering over 31% growth since 2003.

ofcourse this was pre-financial crisis, but i still believe in indonesia's growth and potential

 

^^^^ Do not learn Indonesian (no offense to the good people of Inochina). Like CaptK said learn Ruby, SQL, C Objective, or Flash. Actually learn Flash, with all the only games right now you would be so freaking money.

This topic has been beat to death on here (so don't respond), but you really can make so much fucking money with those stupid little apps. I went down to Denver to tour the office of my classmates company (year ahead of me in CS). Caught a of peak of his w2 on his desk .... god damn.

Ace all your PE interview questions with the WSO Private Equity Prep Pack: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide/private-equity-interview-prep-questions
 
westfald:
^^^^ Do not learn Indonesian (no offense to the good people of Inochina).

Are you retarded? Though arbitrary from the get-go, Indonesia isn't considered part of Indochina...

-------------------------------------------------- "Whenever I'm about to do something, I think, 'Would an idiot do that?' And if they would, I do NOT do that thing." -Dwight Schrute, "The Office"-
 

Agree with most of what's been said above. Given the fact that any respectable business person will know english, learn GERMAN so you can impress in zurich and frankfurt.

 

Forget indonesia, nothing against the people or the country but it is not because there is a big population and a few years of growth that there opportunities in banking...people were saying the same thing about Thailand 5 years ago and then it totally crashed before any kind of financial marketplace was ever really built there...

I would suggest Japanese or Chinese Mandarin.

1) Japanese: Japan is still a very important place in Asia, it's not growing right now (its kind of the opposite actually !) so it's not the most exciting market to be in but in terms of recruiting IB firms tend to only recruit people speaking japanese, also it is still the most sophisticated market place in Asia. Shanghai recently became the biggest by market cap but honnestly Tokyo is still far ahead in terms of financial vehicles, sophisticated products, etc...

2) Chinese: Other than the obvious interest and growth aspect Chinese mandarin would also be very useful since you could have a large pan-asia coverage through the chinese diaspora. Many people leaving in south asia actually speak chinese such as in thailand for example since part of the population originally emigrated from china to those countries so it's something to keep in mind...

 
antmavel:

Chinese mandarin would also be very useful since you could have a large pan-asia coverage through the chinese diaspora. Many people leaving in south asia actually speak chinese such as in thailand for example since part of the population originally emigrated from china to those countries so it's something to keep in mind...

I wouldn't go so far to say that Chinese will help you in Thailand, or even in most other SE Asian countries. English is spoken in Thailand's financial centers and tourist spots, but knowing Thai would be of more use than Chinese. Same for Vietnam, Indonesia, Phillipines. The only area of SE Asia that Chinese might be a bonus is Malaysia, specifically Singapore. But even then, there are many, many firms/jobs in Singapore and KL where fluent English is the only language requirement

Mainland China (ex-Hong Kong) is another story-- being fluent in Mandarin is more of a requirement there. I know a guy at State Street in HK who's friends with the Chair of China Investment Corp (China's SWF) and said he would introduce me, but I would have to be fluent in Mandarin to work there. Unfortunately, 我的普通话不是很好。

Quick Note on Thailand: I spent a month there last summer after Study Abroad in HK. If you love banking, then I wouldn't recommend going to Thailand (especially Phuket, where I was)... You will easily forget about banking, the stock market, school, and websites like this. You'll have the time of your life and never want to come back to this grind.

 

I would like to reiterate that there are Chinese-Americans, Russian-Americans, Indian-Americans, Thai-Americans, Japanese-Americans, Arab-American, German-Americans etc. investment bankers who are bilinguals, meaning they are fluent in English and their respective "native" languages. Learning a new language at this point will not get you anywhere.

-------------------------------------------------- "Whenever I'm about to do something, I think, 'Would an idiot do that?' And if they would, I do NOT do that thing." -Dwight Schrute, "The Office"-
 

If you want to work in Asia then it's better for you to learn Indonesian language. If you want to learn fast and easy it’s good if you look for Bali Indonesian teacher so that you’ll be guided and he/she can teach you what is right especially in writing and speaking.

 

if you're passionate about it, do it - don't factor it into your job search/career, business fluency is even more difficult than fluency

if anything, mention it as an interest - feigning fluency = allowing them to interview you entirely in that language

speed boost blaze
 

No it hasn't.

I still recommend learning one though. Just a personal fulfillment so to speak. And it would be a cool experience to travel to a different country and learn different cultures, with the language already on your tongue.

Caveat, I speak 4 languages. I wouldn't recommend Mandarin though. There was a post by Eddie a while back talking about how that is the most difficult language and if you are not native, it is extremely difficult to become fluent.

 

It really helped me get better at Arabic. I knew a little bit but was never conversationally fluent. RS is pretty good as a refresher or advancer. However, I seriously doubt its possible to learn a completely new language like Hindi or Mandarin through that. Simply because its really difficult.

In terms of best languages to learn. I'd say Spanish, Mandarin, French, Arabic, German, Italian and Hindi in that order. Keep in mind, Mandarin Arabic and Hindi will be very very hard to learn.

 

Are you from USA? If you want to work in Europe, learn German. It opens a lot of possibilities ( Switzerland, Germany, Austria). French would probably come easy to you as you know spanish.

"When a defining moment comes along you define the moment or the moment defines you."
 

I've taken 2 years of Mandarin (combined school + out of school) and have tried RS. Rosetta sucks, 1000%, for languages like Mandarin. Perhaps when you're simply trying to learn more vocabulary or brush up your skills it could be good, but for learning I think it's absolutely useless.

That was my experience with Mando - your mileage may vary with other languages, as no single technique is applicable to every language out there. I can see RS being useful with certain European languages given that you know Spanish. I'm a native Spanish speaker, and found that learning things like French and Portuguese isn't so difficult since there are so many similarities.

Side note: I studied German for a very short time in high school, and I remember only that it was very easy to learn. I still remember some vocabulary words and can do simple introductions and greetings, etc. This is from a few short weeks of study 8 years ago - I'm sure you could learn German in no time if you put in a good effort.

in it 2 win it
 

Learn russian, we are going to own the world soon.

You killed the Greece spread goes up, spread goes down, from Wall Street they all play like a freak, Goldman Sachs 'o beat.
 

Language of love

"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
 

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