Georgetown MPS Real Estate
Hi guys,
Just wondering if anybody has any thoughts on this masters? I'm currently London-based, working mainly as an energy journalist (though I also do some quant work and analysis) but am hoping to break into RE I-banking or possibly REIT work. I'd be moving to the DC office, staying in my current job, and doing this part-time over 2 years in the evening. Undergrad is from Cambridge, History and Management. I'm 25.
Do you think the course would serve as a good conversion platform? Any other thoughts at all?
Cheers,
Makes sense to me. The full-time programs at Cornell and Columbia are designed for people with 3-6 years of experience in Real Estate, so part time seems like a good option.
Is your move based solely on your current job, or are you doing it to enrol in the Real Estate program?
Working for a REIT would be a possibility. I don't see traditional IBs with RE groups recruiting from MSRE programs.
It'd be a good idea if you can see the type of placement the program has, as well as what, if any, career resource services the program offers. My hunch is that if it's a part-time program, you're really using the knowledge, credential and network that you gain from the program more than you are any sort of on-campus recruiting type stuff.
Thanks for the input guys. I'd be doing it chiefly to enrol in the RE program (it does look very appealing to me on paper at least) but also because the type of work I'd be doing in the DC office would be much more pleasant. It might also just be me, but there seems to be quite a dearth of good RE programs and jobs here in London. I haven't actually been able to delve fully into the careers aspect of the program as yet; it seems rather new. To be honest, I'm more interested in REIT type stuff than traditional IB. Does anybody have any ideas on admissions/competitiveness of the program at all?
Thanks again,
I saw this posted elsewhere and thought it was a good reference for real estate graduate programs in general: http://www.astudentoftherealestategame.com/graduate-programs/
There are a couple of reviews of Georgetown's program. You may be able to contact the reviewers directly for their take.
Good luck.
If you want to go into investment banking, you should get an MBA and target entrance as an associate.
unless you are in the MBA it is not the same as the grad program that is highly ranked. the Georgetown program just started a few years ago and while good, I WOULD NOT suggest it to career switchers..if you are in the industry...its good for advancement, if not...get a MBA
unless you are in the MBA it is not the same as the grad program that is highly ranked. the Georgetown program just started a few years ago and while good, I WOULD NOT suggest it to career switchers..if you are in the industry...its good for advancement, if not...get a MBA
This is what I was wondering about. I'm not sure I'm ready to load up on the mortgage-like debt required for an MBA, and to go back to living like an impoverished student again on about 18k a year while I'm doing it. So you don't think it's realistic to use the MPS RE as a means to break into REIT or research/strategy type work...?
Cheers,
No, trust me, not worth it. You can become a broker or work for a broker team...but REIT, no. Research, yes, but real estate research does not pay well (trust me on that). Honestly most jobs do not pay well in real estate unless you are working for the top REITs or I-Banks; unless you want to sell/lease and can be productive..that is one of the reasons I will probably leave the industry.
Style pm me if you'd like. I have two more semesters left before I'm done with Georgetown's masters program. I kighly recommended it...I can't stress enough how many doors have been opened because of the Georgetown name. My first real estate investment gig was as an analyst at B of A. I now work in asset mgmt, but looking t get back into acquisitions/ development.
Georgetown Masters Real Estate - Some Questions (Originally Posted: 05/09/2015)
Hey guys,
I am strongly considering this program for the coming fall/spring semester. I have been trying to scour the internet for a list of attending firms for this years Job Fair (Spring 2015). If anyone in the program could post that information, it would help immensely.
Furthermore, in a couple of other threads discussing this program it was mentioned that the real estate program circulates internal job/intern positions to its students. In your personal experiences, has that been the case?
Much appreciated,
Alex
This is a partial list, but it's what I could find in my email account. Quoting the email newsletter:
"The Career Fair included exhibitors from The Bozzuto Group, Coakley & Williams Construction, Inc., CohnReznick, Colliers International, Kinglet, Mark G Anderson Consultants Project Construction, Inc, Moseley Construction Group, Savills Studley, and the U.S. Department of State Overseas Building Operations as well as the CREBA and CREW associations."
I'm going into my 3rd semester in the program. I think the career fair is like kind of a drop-in-the-bucket of how one does recruiting. There are lots and lots of different events; myriad "field trips"; professors are from all different types of companies. Assuming the economy doesn't collapse and you don't embarrass yourself during the program you should be able to get a pretty good job post graduation.
Hey! really sorry for bringing up an old thread, but have a question as I am looking into the program and concerned about job opps. What kind of jobs did you classmates get out of those companies that you mentioned? Looks like companies like Bozzuto mainly hire property managers, leasing consultant (sales) type. You dont need a masters for these jobs, do you? I was under the impression that this program will give me a leg up when it comes to looking for jobs in real estate private equity, acquisition, development or even lending/mortgages (Freddie Mac type jobs). Thoughts?
I know this questions is explicitly about the job fair, but I can offer some anecdotal insight.
One of my best friends graduated from the program and is doing very, very well for himself in NYC. He continues to be amazed by the lay prestige of Georgetown and attributes almost all of his success to the network and the name. Said way more people in his program got jobs from alumni and from "looking impressive" than from on campus recruiting or anything.
How difficult is to be admitted into the program as far as undergard gpa and work experience?
I got in for this upcoming fall with a poor gpa, good gre, and good work experience. I'll be going to another program though.
My buddy got in with a good gpa, good work experience, and a poor gre.
It's worth remembering that MRED/MSRE programs aren't "ranked" and care a lot less about stat whoring. If they think you're a good addition to the classroom and have the ability to get a good job and make them look good as a result, you're in.
CRE thanks for the response. I'm definitely considering it in the near future, seems like the program opens up some great opportunities.
Thanks for the excellent responses so far guys.
Virginia Tech 4ever, you mentioned that this is your 3rd semester in the program; What kind of exit ops have you seen your past/current classmates take?
CRE, I didn't see the GRE as a listed requirement - Is this something that you submitted of your own accord?
-Alex
Oh for real? Interesting.
I took it and submitted it because it was necessary on the other apps I did. I suppose I never checked to see if it was required for Georgetown, but my grades sucked so I needed to prove I wasn't a moron either way.
Singer and Bassuk, Meridian Capital, Ackman-Ziff, Related
I know a complete idiot that got into GU and not into Hopkins for the MS in Real Estate.
I would say that maybe about 10% of the GU class is composed of total morons. The other 90% are good.
I graduated from the Georgetown program and would say that if you are expecting recruiters and organizations to proactively contact you for employment opportunities more frequently pre vs. post-program you are going to be disappointed. The Georgetown name and an advanced degree from that institution undoubtedly provide a major credibility boost for leadership positions and are extremely valuable on a long term basis. Ultimately, though, if you are going head to head with a candidate with equal experience and without the degree who is more aggressive in reaching out to employers and displays overall better tact in handling the interview process, you will lose every time. I think a lot of people in the program have unrealistic expectations about how they will be treated with the paper degree in hand.
Hey!
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. Yeah, I totally dont expect the Gtown degree to get companies to give me a job on a silver platter. I am absolutely willing to work for it. I took a year off after high school to work to save money for school, worked all 4 years in college and I am willing to put in the work. So, as a graduate, any pointers/advice? Looks like in your experience, the students who waited around for on campus recruiting during the career fair were disappointed? Have there been any regrets about the program?
Bumping this to add a little more info on the program. Average years of prior work experience for the program is 6 years. 53% of students already work in real estate, 15% in financial services, and 8% in public administration to round out the top three.
Hi sorry for replying to such an old thread. I have been selected by Georgetown and NYU for Masters in Real Estate program, but I am unable to decide which program I should choose ? I know that NYU has excellent faculty and networking opportunity but is it worth the double tuition ?
Feel free to pm me as well if you would like more info or just share any specific questions you may have and I'll try to get back to you on the open forum. Either way. I graduated from Georgetown's RE prog a couple of years ago. Great prog, top profs, incredibly networking opps. Now work at a large REPE fund in acquisitions/development.
Georgetown MPS in real estate - 2014 update (Originally Posted: 08/11/2014)
I've searched WSO and found a few threads on this program, but most of the threads are pretty dated at this point. I'm starting the program this month.
What are the thoughts on this program? Does anyone currently attend? Any graduates out there with some feedback about the program? Can anyone suggest any professors or recommend any classes? What kind of time commitment is one looking at per class? Any insight into how to best leverage the program for job placement? How does the network look?
I'll start with the basic feedback for those interested in the program:
Why I decided to apply and attend:
I decided to pursue this degree for job advancement and/or transition (my current role requires an MBA or relevant master's degree, including real estate, to advance). I'm in a major market and my peers are pretty much all getting MBAs or MS degrees in real estate, finance, economics, etc., so I'm left with little choice--the decision came down to what degree program and at which school.
I felt like the Georgetown real estate program fit my needs as far as cost (about $30,000 all-in over 21 months, a cost which my current company did not find excessive), curriculum (finance/development curriculum for real estate), professors (heard great things and met one who was insanely brilliant), name recognition (Georgetown), location (located in a brand new downtown building next to a metro station), and schedule (all students--I think--are part-time and most classes have some start times around 8 pm).
Application process:
Application process was not onerous at all. Did not require GMAT/GRE (frankly, a worthless requirement for a real estate program anyway). Did require an essay, 2 recommendations, official transcripts, and a professional resume. Admissions is on a rolling basis, which is super convenient (I just BARELY made the August 1 deadline for fall admissions). The admissions staff were extremely accessible and answered questions in a timely and friendly manner. Program requires a minimum GPA of 3.0 to get in, but I got in with a sub-3.0 as an exception because I have a ridiculous resume. They admitted me conditionally, placing me on academic probation for the first 2 of the 10 courses. My admissions letter specifically cites my professional background as the reason I was given special consideration.
The entire application process is completed online.
Aside
By the way, the cost to attend is bafflingly low by Georgetown's standards given what I've heard about job placement through the grapevine and on WSO (development, REITs, etc.). To put the cost of the program--$30,000, give or take--into perspective, the Georgetown MBA program costs something like $120-130,000 (one of my co-workers is starting in the fall part-time) and the brand new MS in finance program is something like $65,000. I can't imagine the brand new MS in finance program having twice the economic efficiency as the MPS in real estate, but what do I know?
Current student. This is a very solid program. Some classes are certainly better than others, but the network is fantastic. I have not had too many classes yet but Staiger, Boatwright, Grindall, are among those professors consistently labeled as excellent. Time commitment is much more than I expected--for more intensive classes, expect at least half of your weekends during a given semester to be devoted to classwork--probably 5-10 hours per week depending on the courses. You should be able to jump onto the principal side if you can demonstrate your expertise with some of the key concepts learned in the finance, private equity and accounting classes.
Lots of recruitment at the local level runs through this program, can't necessarily speak to opportunities outside of DC.
Thanks for the post VT. Sounds like a solid decision, in addition the reduced cost you also won't have to take 1-2 years off and then get in a queue to re-enter the workforce
Is there a certain time period your current company is requiring you to stay since they paid the bill? Or do you need to repay it if you leave within the first 1 or 2 years?
After each reimbursement I need to stay for 3 years to not have to re-pay. So I'd have to stay at my current company for 5 years from now to get the full benefit. That's definitely not happening, so I'm looking at it like an interest-free loan.
Thanks for all the insight guys. Looking into this program currently.
I'm a recent college grad and have been looking into this program to potentially apply in the next year or two. Any chance you know how many they accept each year? What level of experience do they prefer? Is there anything I could do to increase my chances of getting into the program aside from waiting to have more experience?
I graduated from the prog. They prefer people who have at least 2 yrs of RE analyst experience so they can add to the quality of classroom discussions.
Not BS. My classes had attorneys, insurance brokers, full time students, architects....a full spectrum of professions. A lot of people in the program are looking to make major field transitions, not the more minor switches you typically see pondered on WSO (ie, RE Asset Management to RE PE).
Congrats, sounds like a nice opportunity at the right price. I also like your thought on the zero interest loan from work.
This is probably worthless(UFlorida?), but it just showed up in my inbox: https://www.perenews.com/uploadedFiles/PERE/Non-Pagebuilder/Aliased/New…
Would the program be of any use for someone in Asset Management who is looking to multi asset class investing ( on top of caia and CFA)
Ricky Rosay.
I'm currently interested in attending the MPSRE at Georgetown, could you give some insight into the level of opportunities available (for someone not currently in the RE Industry) as compared to Johns Hopkins MSREI?
I only know one person who did this program and he enjoyed it and now works at a Multi-Family Reit in development.
Based on the list Prospie posted USC MSRE has the highest average salary upon graduation, even more so than UPENN MBA ect. pretty suprising.
Link or repost it please?
@"KLEEK" This depends largely on your current job--finance, law, undergrad, etc, and if undergrad, what school? What type of organization are you targeting? With no prior experience work experience, I honestly don't think the degree does much good for its cost in terms of future opps, unless you are an aggressive networker. There are a ton of international/full time students fighting for jobs in the DC market after graduation. Overall, I would say the degree is more valuable to bigger blue chip institutions (Tishman, Hines, JP Morgan AM, etc) than your local developer. Regardless of degree, I would honestly say RE opportunities available for anyone depend most, in order, on a) your networking skills; b) your prior experience; and c) graduate education. As others in this forum have consistently mentioned, career advancement in this industry is all about leveraging your networks and selling your individual story. People may disagree, but I would take it a step further and state that excluding networking potential, there is qualitatively no major perceived difference by employers between solid programs such as Gtown, JHU, Columbia, NYU, etc. In other words, an MS degree from any of these institutions may well help you get you an interview, but I really don't think the specific school will help/hurt you from there--it's all how you sell your story.
That being said, I personally think the Georgetown name carries more weight in both national/international reputation than all of those above except maybe Columbia, and that was what guided my personal decision.
Does anyone have any insight into the online MPS in Real Estate?
I'm looking into it right now. It is being offered for the 1st time this year. You can take all classes completely online, on your own time. You can also take a semester on campus, and then the rest online, for example. The price is the same - 29K. And spending that kind of money on an online degree is bit.. well too much. I think it can work out, however, if you can spend a semester or so on campus in order to meet people and build a network. Just my 2 cents.
In my situation I am trying to decide between an on-campus degree from a state school vs. Georgetown online.
Can you touch on the admissions process any more? I also had a less than 3.0 GPA from college 12 years ago, but have several years experience with large Manhattan developers.
Experience trumps GPA. The program really values experience.
StyleT, based on the above two comments it seems that the Masters RE opens doors into AM and REPE. Care to comment on why you were so negative?
Georgetown's MPS Real Estate program (Originally Posted: 08/11/2013)
Hey guys,
Does Anyone have any experience with Georgetown's Masters Real Estate program? How does it place and where? What kind of stats do you need to get in? I have 3-5 years experience in the industry.
Thanks
i think atwood went there
You can message me. I graduated from the program and currently work in REPE for a big firm currently focusing on core acq.
atwoodt I'm very interested as well... will send you a PM when I have enough points if you don't mind
Interested as well!
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/georgetown-mps-real-estate
Use the search function ;)
One of my best friends went there. Just got hired by an Ackman Ziff/Singer Bassuk type company in Manhattan.
The former dean is one of the nicest guys alive and personally called companies as a follow up to my friends' 7 interviews telling them how awesome he is. He's a dean at Johns Hopkins now though.
Currently in the program. If you currently in DC, I'd highly recommend it. You need to meet as many people in the program as you can before starting to figure out how best to approach it. A few of the teachers and classes are vastly more valuable than the rest and a guide would make all the difference. Feel free to message me if you decide to pursue. Also, the Hopkins program is reputable in the area. I think the core classes at Hopkins are better than what's offered Georgetown, but Georgetown's electives are far more interesting and useful.
How is this program for individuals who do not intend to be in the DC are for the long term? Seems like an MBA with a concentration in RE might be a better choice?
Agreed, an MBA with a RE concentration would be looked at more favorably, so long as it was a decent school. That said, real estate masters programs are typically a fraction of the cost, will take less time, and every class you take is in your field. Just depends on where your priorities fall.
Hello, I am very interested in Georgetown's MSRE program and would like to know more about it. I have two years of work experience in in commercial brokerage and was wondering if this is enough experience to apply to some of these programs. I have a bachelors degree in Econ from a top 50 school. Is it worth it to get this degree or should I continue to gain more experience? Do these programs benefit those who have less experience or is it for people who are looking to advance with their companies? Any help is much appreciated.
You are very much at the prime level of experience with a prime history for the program and it is definitely worth it, of course depending on what you want to do after. Check it out.
How is the Georgetown MPS real estate program perceived by potential employers? I understand that the program is young and want to know if there is heavy recruiting on campus, particularly by investment firms.
Blackstone, Brookfield, Carlyle, Hines, AIG, Oaktree etc all recruit there...
Anyone know if this Is this still the case (regarding recruiting by Blackstone, etc.) since CRE mentioned in another thread that the dean at Gtwn moved to JHU?
Just got word that the Georgetown MPS RE team won first place in MIT's international The CASE Competition 2014, held in London this year. Last year the Georgetown MPS RE team was third. Congratulations, Georgetown MPS RE ladies and gents! Huge win that clearly demonstrates the programs quality and strength. This is the most competitive, rigorous RE case competition amongst the best MBA and MSRE programs in the world.
What if you have no prior RE experience? Is it still useful/will you get in?
I'm bumping a 2yr old thread :) but I second this Q.
I have several years of experience in CRE as well as corporate financial analysis experience. I'm looking into Georgetown and NYU's Master's programs due to their 1 year programs and course offerings. Anyone have any thoughts between the two or is it more about where you want to land a job afterwards?
I'm thinking of applying to this program, but the online option. My goal is to move out of closing/post closing and into the the production group and up within the company(commercial mortgages). I know online isn't optimal, since you miss out on a lot of networking, however my line of reasoning is as follows--
I can still work and continue to build my network through work and a bit through Gtown's program- (fly down for some events, possibly do a semester in DC), I don't have a finance undergrad and an MBA is too expensive and I'd have to do a part-time anyway making it significantly longer, the local on campus programs are limited to real estate finance 'certificate' programs that are just as long as the mps (why get a certificate when I can get masters in same amount of time?), work will pay for a good chunk of it...
Thoughts or recommendations? Thanks!
What's your game plan with the program? It seems like you'll be throwing $35-40,000 down the drain without any actual use for the degree. How will it help you advance in your chosen career field?
I am doing the online MSRE at Georgetown. I am currently in my 6th class, and am enjoying it. Price is good, and I have found the fellow students to be a plus as most are older working professionals with years of experience in real estate. Lots of private developers or people wanting to expand into development. Very rare in the online format to come across people who lack RE experience.
Admissions is not very difficult. No GMAT/GRE needed. Just letters of rec, and a three-page personal statement. As far as cons of the program, I would really only put the structured curriculum as a negative. It is a fixed 10 course program with no additional electives. It’s not the end of the world, but if you want a heavy development based program or finance based this won't be it as it is meant to be pretty broad in exposure. Courses last 8 weeks, and each semester has two modules. Additionally, they are all case based so it’s very practical application of the content. You can take as many as three for a total of 9 credits if you want to accelerate through the program quicker. Most courses following a similar work pattern with a few discussion post due on Thursday, then case assignments due on Sunday.
Work load is not that crazy; I probably spend no more than 10 hours a week dealing with the material. I do feel that the Georgetown brand name has helped my career. I switched jobs going from CRE underwriting/valuations to acquisitions for a REIT, and give a good amount of credit to this program for making this happen. Since putting Georgetown on my resume I could tell my hit rate on applications increased.
I know people that did the NYU program and at over $70k its basically not worth it. This program runs $35k, with limited expenses outside of tuition with textbook rentals. I’ve also met people who did A&M’s program and that didn’t really provide much of a boost as that program attracts lots of students in a 4+1 scenario as they hop into it right after getting their bachelors.
@Virginia Tech 4ever I suppose the game-plan is to use the courses to actually get some formal education in finance/real estate under my belt, make some connections, and to leverage the degree toward a move to origination and up the ladder at my present company. My understanding is that advanced degrees are useful for this. My goals and thoughts on pros/cons are in my op.
@mpbyo Thank you for the detailed response! I'm glad to hear it's going well for you. Most of the perspectives I've found online are based on the on-campus version. I'll take your post as a thumbs up for the program then.
I'm honestly still perplexed by your position. As a current Georgetown student and a guy with substantial background in originations, I don't understand how this degree would help you get into an origination role. I've literally never met a person who originates transactions who has got to that point through a master's degree.
So does anyone think this online MSRE will actually help in recruiting if one has reached a pivot point in their career?
It will but it vastly depends upon what your goals are and where you're at in your career.
Has anyone looked at the Mason program? I'm only asking because a friend of mine is under the impression that it's a better program than Georgetown after a number of faculty have left Gtown. Personally, I don't see anyone picking up a resume and not favoring the Georgetown candidate. To me Mason in on the same level as Georgia State, whereas Georgetown is probably second tier
I honestly didn't even know George Mason had a program. I'm sure it's fine, but when it comes to recruiting, I wouldn't want to have a George Mason degree and be going up against Maryland, Johns Hopkins, and Georgetown Master of Real Estate grads PLUS all of the MBA students (including top MBA students) who want to do real estate in DC.
George Mason has amazing professors in all kinds of its programs; in my view, better than most of the ACC schools (UVa, Virginia Tech, UNC, etc.). It's located in Fairfax, VA, a nice suburb of huge and powerful city, so it's very easy to attract extremely high quality faculty. George Mason has an amazing law school and economics program and it may (or may not) have an objectively better academic real estate program than Georgetown, but in this regard it does not have the same "reputation," whether Gtown has earned that reputation or not.
In "recruiting?" Nah. Not really. In advancing your career or changing your career on your own accord? Of course. Employers don't care how you got your degree - they care if you can do the job, have "potential", and to an extent, where you got your degree. If you can pull off working full time and getting a master in real estate, you're going to have two (?) more years of experience and a graduate degree. You'll be fine.
You will miss out on some networking with classmates, although this is getting better with online degrees, but you will also have two (?) years to network on your own. It should be really easy to get coffee with someone if your pitch is that you're working full time AND going to school to be them one day.
@Wicker, what type of market are you in right now? How big is your current firm? For me, I currently live in a major CRE market and already had some big CRE names on my resume prior to the program. My career was already moving at a good pace prior to the degree, I did the online since compared to local MBA's I could obtain the degree for a 1/3 the price, and have a brand name that trumps most of them and is on par with the best in the market.
I can understand people’s hesitation about going online, I was actually one of the first students admitted to this version. In terms of networking, the online program has ~100 students now and rotating through your classes you will get to interact with them and build a relationship with them either through discussions or group projects.
@C.R.E. Shervin, I moved into my current acquisition role by networking on my terms. Recruiting for the MSRE is like one could imagine D.C. Metro focused. In terms of pivot point when I started the program I was an analyst and wanted to move into an associate role. In a little over a year, I was able to make that happen.
I'm working for a mega life-co on the east coast. I'd say I'm doing well here so far; it's a close-knit group and I get along with everyone well and see upward potential. No other CRE firms on my resume though. A majority of the people here do something; a lot are pushed into this RE Certificate program from a local University, but I'd rather obtain something more substantive.
My line of reasoning is similar to yours. All the local MBA programs are 3x the price, take 2x+ as long, and are either regional players (with no RE concentration) or (probably) out of reach. My gut says it's a good move. My goal is to stay at this firm and move to production (a lot of our production team started is closing/post closing), be patient, and move up the ranks.
I agree with the advice @Virginia Tech 4ever" is giving. The barrier to entry for production roles does not warrant a MSRE at the analyst level. As for associate roles, they generally are filled through MBA recruiting.
I'd advise attempting to focus on changing jobs. Something that allows you to get experience underwriting commercial properties/loans. That with your closing experience will make production a very organic move. If in six months, you do not see much traction in your job search or progress at your current job, then I would look to move into a MSRE.
Good question to stylet, chrisjr. Also, may be worth mentioning that I know a couple of pple that were recruited to work for REITs after graduating. No prior RE exp, each had a year or two of corp finance exp prior to the prog. And there were plenty of REITS at the Georgetown career fairs I attended.
Georgetown Real Estate MPS Program (Originally Posted: 06/07/2013)
Hi All,
I am new to WSO. I was wondering if anyone had any insight into Georgetown's Masters of Real Estate program, anyone that has graduated, job opps, etc. I have about three years of work experience total, the most current being one year at a mezzanine debt fund that specializes in healthcare real estate.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks!
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/georgetown-mps-real-estate
Thanks kjl
I wasn't able to find any other posts that were credible aside from that one.
WTF is a watch guy!?
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