In Need of Guidance from Experienced Elders!!!
Good Afternoon:
So I graduated High School last year as Valedictorian, took a bunch of summer classes and an extended course load this year at Northwood University (small business school in Michigan, with locations also in Texas and Florida). Because of this, I will be graduating next year with a degree in Finance.
I have plans of going right into a masters program. Northwood offers a 12month program in Michigan, as well as in Switzerland. Would having the degree say Switzerland make much of a difference? Or should I focus on trying to get into a Top-25 BSchool?
I have dreams of becoming a Financial Analyst on the West Coast some day (sooner than most), but I am worried that I will struggle for a few reasons.
#1- I will have just turned 22 when I graduate with the Masters
#2- I am coming from an nontarget undergraduate and graduate program
Also, I think that it is important to add that the work experience on my resume isn't very impressive to due my commitment to my accelerated studies. Would it be possible to get a top analyst position just with the above credentials? Do you think my young age with an advanced degree will speak for my work ethic enough?
Also, if getting an MBA from the same school as my undergraduate is frowned upon (which I've heard it is), would I stand much of a chance at getting into a top 25?
I really am at a turning point in my life and I will really value the input from the WSO community!
Thank you all for taking the time.
Don't get a master's degree from that school, it will do you no good. This is the time for you to get a job.
Work for a few years, then apply for B-school. Any suggestions for what path to head down so I am competitive for an analyst position? I am worried that bachelors from a nontarget w/o much work experience will limit my options
Why did you go to Northwood if you were the valedictorian in high school? Honestly, rather than graduating early, you will be better off transferring out of that school and going almost anywhere else.
Why did you rush through school without an internship or network?
i actually don't see a masters as that bad given that he'll finish it when most people are finishing their undergrad degrees but only if he's forced to. given his lack of internships, it can only help with recruiting. definitely play up the whole im super smart/motivated and finished quick shit though because thats all you have
I am getting a lot of scholarship $ at Northwood (still a 32k a yr school). And Michigan wouldn't take the 39 credits from the community college that Northwood did. Getting out of school earlier=making money earlier was my thoughts on going accelerated. Unfortunately it sounds like an IB job won't be coming my way with a Northwood degree.
So I bide my time for a few years, get my CFA certification, build my resume, then MBA? I'll still be ahead of the curve as far as age goes i guess.....
First of all, I really appreciate you taking the time to give me some advice. Second, I only have one year left at Northwood and if I transferred I would have 3-4!! Let me ask you this, would a few years experience as a CFP or something else unrelated to IB be bad if I got an MBA from a target in a few years? It would give me time to study hard for the GMAT and build that ever important résumé too!
Ok, let me give it to you straight. The reason it would take 3-4 more years to graduate is because a respectable institution like U Mich won't take your credits. I really, really don't want to come across as an asshole, but respectable employers will think of Northwood in the same way that U Mich does. A Northwood degree will not help you. It is hard for me to imagine that you could get a good enough job from Northwood to get into a top MBA program down the line. You were the valedictorian of your high school, you need to transfer to a better school.
Prove me wrong or transfer or both.
your dream is to become a financial analyst at west coast?, then why did you go to a complete non target in Michigan. Clearly you're not gonna get a legit finance job with that degree. Did you look at the average annual salary for FT offers at you're school, recruitment? Seriously I'm not trolling. Why did you go to that university?
Just for scholarships, credits?... I don't see the logic behinds this. why can't you apply for a masters program in finance or accounting with a better name tag and leverage yourself somehow..
Thank you @whatwhatwhat for some actual advice rather than just trashing my choice to attend a university that happens to have alumni in Harvard law school. Just because it isn't an Ivy League school doesn't make it a shitty education. I haven't had to sit thru gen. Ed. Lecture halls like I would at Michigan or any other "big time school".
Should I try to get a boutique IB job right out of undergraduate and then apply to other MBA programs? I plan on apply to a better name tag after a few years of experience. My question is, what experienc would better prep me for this?
You should listen to SirTrades, because he is spot on. He isn't trashing your education, he's saying that the name of your school will get you literally nowhere, and he is right. You made a poor decision in attending Northwood over Michigan (or MIchigan State, or any recognizable state school..) and are now trying to defend it.
This isn't what you want to hear, but that doesn't mean it is wrong.
Transfer now, or ideally, like 12 months ago.
I think the answer in the realm of what you want to hear is try to do an MSF/MAC at a very recognizable school (not a local college) - that will give you a shot, but may be difficult depending on how far down the list your current school is.
Ok, MCBB, I want to just let you know that the advice you received from SirTrades is the best advice you are going to get. He wasn't trashing your school, he was simply giving you facts. I agree with those facts. It doesn't matter that one alumnus from your school went to Harvard Law, the fact remains that you will have a very
There isn't anything wrong with your ambition. It is impressive that you were able to complete a degree in such a short amount of time, but you have to vary your perspective a bit and view things as an employer would. For a moment, I would recommend that you stop getting defensive and listen to the advice you are being given. SirTrades is a partner at a well known hedge fund and is a highly respected member of this community. He isn't trying to disparage you, he is trying to help you. I am also a Certified User on this site, and while I have significantly less experience in the financial services industry than SirTrades, I have been heavily involved in undergraduate recruiting for both Summer Analyst and Full Time positions, and I agree with his viewpoint.
I understand you must be incredibly frustrated that you were a valedictorian of your high school and you thought you were making a prudent decision by transferring credits and trying to finish a degree quickly to avoid incurring student loan debt, however, it would be in your best interest to transfer to a better university and matriculate there. you don't have enough experience for an employer to take a chance on you at 20 years old, especially given the lack of school brand.
You are being UNBELIEVABLY short-sided if you think that you are better off finishing up at your school in the next year and then paying MORE money to get a completely worthless masters degree afterward, instead of taking that same 3-4 year period to matriculate at a school like Michigan. If you were in fact Valedictorian, I am frankly a bit shocked that you couldn't have gotten scholarship money at a better university. You got yourself into a predicament, but the good news is that you can get yourself out if you are willing to do something about it. College is FUN, I don't understand why you wouldn't want to go to a better school and spend 4 years learning interesting things and partying. Your argument about not having to sit in lecture halls is a complete and total joke by the way. I guarantee you that you would learn more from a 200 person lecture hall class at Michigan than you would where you are set to graduate.
A dose of humility would serve you well. If you want to get a job on the street, you will need to improve your academic brand. You could do that with an MBA, but it will take a longer period of time and will be more costly than if you just transfer now.
We are trying to help you out, don't get so defensive. If you don't believe us, Google "ROI" and then get data from your university on salaries for graduates and see what you come up with... I can save you the trouble and let you know that if you transfer, your ROI will be higher.
Thank you for saying, in a much more acceptable way, what I and surely others wanted to say as well. +1.
MCBB, in order to do well in finance - or any field, honestly - you have to be willing to understand that rules will change. You don't need a degree from a "big name school" to do anything, this is true. But for finance, such a degree provides such a huge advantage that people from unknown (non-target) schools literally do anything they can to either obtain one (transferring in undergrad, which you still can do, MSF, MBA) or they position themselves such that they'll never need one (which many times just means exiting finance altogether).
Your will have significant difficulty both finding a job and getting into a good MBA program, coming from your school. It is definitely possible, as anything is, but the odds are certainly not in your favor. And don't misread what I wrote - this is not the time for you to "prove yourself," "beat the odds," or "use this situation to your advantage." You have a clear "out" of your current situation - by transferring to a top undergrad, you'll have solved a huge problem very early on.
The next step you might take is to do a Masters degree, but that's still not an optimal path - you can spend similar money on transferring to a top undergrad and still leaving yourself the option of doing a Masters degree down the road. On top of that (as if this isn't enough already), you'll be able to take advantage of the top undergraduate internships that recruit at schools like UMich. AND, to top this all off, you'll be put in touch with the insane network of students, grad students, and alumni from a top school, which is nothing to sneeze at.
In a nutshell, time value of money rules all: top degree + internships + network, all right now > top degree later + no internships + small / weak network until you break in, IF you break in.
Either way, good luck.
you're not likely to get into any good MBA programs given your profile and even if you were, a lot of recruiters are not going to know what to do with someone who has ZERO work experience or at most a summer before FT. your profile is not standard so you miss out on some of the traditional ways of obtaining employment. you need to bypass those barriers by networking
I appreciate your advice. But it just doesn't make sense that I would graduate debt free, next year, giving me 3 more years of income (even if it isn't what I want to do). So I go to michigan for another 3 years graduate with over 100k in debt apposed to 100k in my savings. Just doesn't seem right to me.
Let me ask you this- after a few years making average pay here in michigan and building my resume, becoming a CFA, do you think a top MBA would get me to where I wanna be?
Sir Trades is right. Transfer. Apply to private schools too. Unless your family does VERY well, you would get enough aid from top 15 schools to make it out with minimal debt. And, as a Valedictorian, you should be able to get into a good school. Craft a compelling narrative, and you have a good shot at an Ivy.
Everything ties together. A good undergrad leads to strong work experience which leads to a good MBA program. It doesn't matter that your school sent somebody to Harvard Law. They admit on GPA and LSAT scores. Business schools care way more about what you do between undergrad and when you apply.
And you might not even need BSchool if you transfer. Go to Ross, or any other good college. Pay 100k if you have to (although I doubt you will). It could save you 160k in debt for BSchool.
You do not want to graduate now. I am guessing you do not have killer internships. Pushing graduation will allow you to get internships, and FT offers.
And you are not "giving up" 100k in savings. Unless you are living at home, you are not going to be saving 33k a year. Even in a low COL state like Michigan, you'd be lucky to save 10k with the jobs you are likely looking at.
All of this logic is flawed. First and foremost, it is worth mentioning that you cannot hold a CFA charter until you have passed all 3 levels of the CFA (not an easy feat), and have 4 years of qualifying work experience in a financial capacity, which is defined as below:
Evaluating or applying financial, economic, and/or statistical data as part of the investment decision-making process involving securities or similar investments, which includes, but is not limited to, publicly traded and privately placed stocks, bonds, and mortgages and their derivatives; commodity-based derivatives and mutual funds; and other investment assets, such as real estate and commodities, if these other investment assets are held as part of a diversified, securities-oriented investment portfolio; or Supervising, directly or indirectly, persons who practice such activities; or Teaching such activities.
Secondly, I agree with the poster above who noted that you will not save 100k in 3 years in Michigan, even if you are living at home. Besides that, I don't think you would have to go 100k into debt in order to matriculate. I didn't take on that much debt and I paid for college on my own, granted I was in state, but Michigan would be in state for you and it is a great school that is a regular feeder for Wall Street jobs.
What doesn't "seem right to you" seems right to every single other poster on this thread including all of the Certified Users. Ditch the ego because at this point it's clear that you are just trying to rationalize a poor decision. What type of job do you think you are going to get out of Northwood? Why would you NOT go to Michigan if you could get in?
You are using a 3 year time horizon to evaluate the merits of a breakeven decision in order to pat yourself on the back for a decision which was ludicrous. What about the next 40 years of your career? Either go to Michigan or don't go, but continuing your pointless argument and convincing everyone else that you made a great choice is not one of your options because it simply won't happen.
Though I can't speak as well about these things as people who have completed the CFA program, and certainly not as well as the certified users or guys from target schools, I can say this:
I'm glad others have chimed in here, so I don't look like some random asshole giving aggressive and shitty advice.
MCBB -- you're very young, so you have time on your side. Go to Michigan (or some other good school), fuck a bunch of random women, and get a degree that will give you access to the jobs you want. It's almost impossible to get the most desirable jobs coming from a no name school. That's not the biggest problem though. The biggest problem is that it's harder to get the really good jobs down the line without having the good experience in the beginning. Chicken/egg problem and it starts with your school.
I know this is probably a shock to you, but you need to sit down and seriously consider transferring. Do not listen to family members as they probably don't know what they're talking about. They're usually going to give you some BS about starting at the bottom and working your way up. That's all well and good, but browse this site to see the struggles that people on this site have transitioning from back office to front office jobs. I have seen less than 1% of people in the back office make that transition (way less).
It is frustrating realizing that Northwood(privateschool) wasn't what I thought it was. I went into the decision thinking that my young age be worth more than the name of the college. Understandably, I realize that I was wrong in saying so. I just really need to sit down and think this out.
All of the advice is welcomed by the way- don't mistake me.
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