Investment banking from Non ivy league school
Hello. I am a freshman in college. I go to Texas A&m university and currently study finance at mays business school. I want to hopefully do investment banking but I have come across some concerns that a degree from Texas A&M mays business school isn't good enough to help land a job on wall street and I am considering switching to engineering because it is ranked really high here. The plan would be to get an MBA and work on wall street alive. I hate engineering but I know that it can potentially help out later in the future because it gives me many options if I don't succeed as a i banker as I can rely on engineering, however if I continue with finance and don't make it to wall street it will be very hard to make over 100K.
Any thoughts and concerns would be very much appreciated. I am very naive in this whole field and any advice would help.
Getting in from a non-ivy (Originally Posted: 07/15/2008)
Hi. Im going to be a sophomore at a tier 2 school this fall. I realize it is nearly impossible to get an analyst job on Wall Street if you don't come from a tier 1 school. However, are other analyst jobs open to non-ivy leaguers in other American cities? Can you work your way to New York from these cities? Are the salaries comparable?
Also, I'm currently a Biochemistry major and a math minor. If I was able to get into a top 10 Business School would I be able to break into finance even if I have a non-related degree? Would a dual math/econ major from a tier 2 school be more effective than a Biochem/math combo? Sorry I have so many questions, but this is all new to me. Thanks.
This phrase has been beaten to death, but contact alumni from your school that work in IBD. If you can demonstrate that you have good knowledge of the industry, they might be able to make a push for you to get your foot in the door.
Getting into I-banking from a non-Ivy school (Originally Posted: 08/01/2006)
I don't go to an Ivy league school but I have had a couple internships in different financial fields, Hedge Fund and CBOT, and I really want to get into I-banking. I was hoping to get some suggestions as to the best way to get an interview at a BB seeing that the BB's don't come and recruit at my school. All suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks
i always thought my school, Northwestern, would fall under "tier 2." perhaps a better way to describe your school is Top 15, Top 30, Top 50 (shudder), etc.
coming from a non-target, you have a chance at a boutique ibank. the ones in chicago/nyc are a little more competitive since you have decent schools in those areas where everyone is willing to stab their brother in the back to make 100k out of college, so you may want to do a hefty amount of alumni networking.
the salaries will be comparable but bonuses significantly less than BB in nyc, but youll still be making more than all your bozo friends who are jerking each other off for 35k a year. and thats all that matters, being better than your peers.
im really not sure what non-targets are supposed to do to get a decent IB gig. all i can say think is get that gpa up to 3.7+, get some good leadership experience on campus, and network, network, network. read some books on networking and become a good schmooze. and if youre azn... good luck my friend.
Check out the Mergers and Inquisitions Q&A about breaking into IBD from a non-target/ non-IVY school. It may shed you some light.
There is always hope unless you have an abysmally low GPA and come across as a retard while you engage in networking .
Thanks for the reply. If I switch to math/econ there's no doubt I can get up to a 3.7. If I stay in Biochem....not even med school kids here have much over a 3.5. As far as the tier 2 thing, I'm going by Barron's rankings which is what grad schools and medical schools use which is tier 1-5. The ivies and MIT, Berkely, Michigan etc. are tier 1. My school is tier 2 which is on par with U of Rochester, Illinois, and Villanova. I'm thinking of transferring to Virginia or Michigan. But if I can't get in there, maybe I should just transfer to Penn State or Indiana as these schools seem to place well and I could easily get into either of those.
Study what you love!!! Don't drop your major if it is only to get a better chance for an IB job. Virginia and Michigan have strong networks, so if you can make the move, do so. The most important is still: NETWORKING! Send out 1000s of emails and make 100s of calls to alumni for a little chat. This is the best advice one can give you, besides getting leaderhip experience, good GPA and relevant internships or part-time jobs. Good luck!
explain. im not azn btw
I am from a non-Ivy school with a marginal GPA of 3.3 and want to enter the world of banking. I have interned at a private equity firm the past two summers and expect to graduate spring of 2007. I clearly do not have the background that BB are looking for but am wondering if it is possible to land an interview with a MM bank in NYC or Chicago. Does anyone have any advice that will help me get noticed by MM banks that do not come and recruit at my school? Thanks
Engineering will be a much more difficult curriculum (I know this from experience), so you will need to put in some extra work to keep the GPA high.
Going the finance major route (any other single major within the b-school, considering your goals, would be folly) will expose you to the topics you will need to know to be successful in any interview. A brief recommendation: don't plan on starting your career in finance after your MBA if you know now that's what you would like to do. Getting internships/starting to network as a sophomore and junior give you a major leg up when it comes to FT recruiting. lastly, what mrvoodoo said - check out the M&I Q&A section.
im just talking about the nerdy asians at recruitment fairs who are super eager and desperate for IB jobs... they invariably have glasses that accentuate their squinted eyes, have poorly-fitting suits, talk way too fast, ask irrelevant questions like "What do you think about the equity markets?", have god-awful body language (hunched over, lean forward, fidgety, hands in front of their chest), and are just barely tolerated by recruiters with fake smiles and curt answers.
i had to stand in line behind these losers at the career fair at my school last year and just could not stand them. this doesnt apply to ALL azns... just the stereotypical nerdy ones with poor social skills. and it certainly applies to all nerds in general, but i just happened to see a prevalence of asians like this at career fairs... see the thread "About Asians" for further explanation. I strongly feel that these people are much better suited for med school than anything in finance except maybe quant work.
what im saying is, getting an IB job last year was tougher than usual, and this year might even be even worse. networking from my "semi-target" where only a handful of juniors get BB SA internships is ESSENTIAL in order to even have a chance at an IB gig. Networking means you need good communication skills, i mean close to perfect. im not saying im perfect by any means (im particularly long winded...like this post for instance) but the types of people i mentioned above are just hopeless. Nerdy azns lack these severely, and thus will never have a chance at the industry if they are from a non-target/semi-target. The only ones that will get in are the 4.0 gpa workhorses from top ivys who will sit there, shut up, and crunch numbers all day like robots.
i know this was super pretentious, especially coming from someone whos not in the industry. feel free to flame away.
go for it
Everyone knows how this industry works. Don't be afraid to write/call someone at the PE firm(s) that you got along with and ask them to put you in touch with anyone they know at either a BB or a MM bank. Even if you don't think you're cut out for BB, whoever you meet there can put you in touch with MM bankers. One contact can lead to many more. Be aggressive but cordial.
i'm sorry... what are bb and mm banks?
It's certainly possible, but will probably take a good amount of leg work contacting alumni or perhaps contacts from the PE firm where you interned. Noting that you have completed a Wall Street Prep or Deal Maven course may help with some of the boutiques.
Network network network.
Thanks to everyone for the advice. I am actually going through DealMaven level 1 right now and will soon be on level 2. I'm also taking a couple graduate classes as an undergrad which will improve my financial modeling skills. Should I note this on my resume because the classes will not show up on my official transcript since the credits do not transfer as an undergrad? Thanks again
p.s. Although I'm sure that there are plenty of wolverines who frequent this site, feel free to email me if you are in columbus so I can get you tickets to some Ohio State football games.
that was pretty spot on, especially the body language part.
whos signature is that that says, "no matter how fancy your job title is, at the end of the day your still a salesman"
Its just a lot harder if you can't sell yourself or ideas
A&M has a good network. Mays Business School is a great school and will place a bit of IBD in Houston.
don't sell yourself short!
Depends on the non-ivy school. I went to SMU and about 5 or 6 BB's recruited directly... Many for energy groups in Dallas and Houston. There were some for NY though...
If they're so anti-social you have have nothing to worry about then. Your insecurity is showing ;)
A&M has plenty of people in IBD. Make sure you're involved with everything available to you such as Aggies on Wall Street. Not to be a dick, but might want to spend 10 minutes or so on LinkedIn and you'll find plenty of alum to reach out to.
I went to SMU also. We had no shortage of interviews. I think it just depends on the non-ivy school. I know that banks recruited pretty heavily from SMU and University of Texas.
What these guys said. Wall Street is hardly an ivy league only place despite popular perception(although that does seem to make it easier). There's a ton of guys from places like UNC, Michigan, Indiana, Vanderbilt, Georgetown, A&M, and such who work in NYC investment banking. If you're open to leading regional firms or regional BB offices (which I would be because those guys seem to enjoy their jobs much more than the BB in NYC analysts/associates), then the net becomes even wider. There's usually pretty good number of guys from the top area finance programs in those offices.
Hell I've even run into guys from places like University of Denver and University of Oklahoma (both unranked business schools) in regional BB offices, in places like Denver, Texas, and Salt Lake City.
Does anyone have any idea of the reputation (if any) of the University of Massachusetts Amherst on Wall Street? Or any bankers from there?
Its not exactly a public Ivy but it has a couple of top 10 rankings for its business school by Princeton Review and supposedly reputable economics professors.
underwood24 have you done any research on recruiting at Texas A&M? Have you talked to any Texas A&M alums working in Investment Banking?
Not to sound harsh but if you did the above you would come to realize that Investment Banking from Texas A&M is very much a possibility. I'm not sure about outside of Houston and in areas like NYC but definitely have seen countless May's alums at firms like Barclays, Citi, JP Morgan, etc.
One common theme among the analysts I've spoken with is that quite a few joined the Titans of Finance program (or something similar) that May's offers. In addition sticking to Finance is much easier and directly inline with what you want versus engineering which will be VERY difficult at A&M.
You have just as good of a shot coming from a non-Ivy. Try to find out when a bank is presenting at a nearby campus. It will help to press the flesh and kiss ass in person.
Titans that's the one I couldn't think of the name of. Do this and you'll be fine. Unless you're stupid and have a shitty GPA, but then you're fucked anyways.
yeah I have talked to many alums. To be frank many of them are still looking for jobs and the jobs they are getting aren't very good. Only a few I have talked to have made it onto wall street and the majority work in the houston Dallas area however not front office.
I also went to SMU - how odd...
Do not switch to engineering as a back-up. A&M engineering is notoriously hard. If you get a Finance degree from Mays, you'll do fine whether its in IB or corporate finance (heavily recruited from what I hear) or even other careers that pay well related to finance (cost estimation, insurance brokerage/underwriting, sales, etc.). Just for the love of god do not switch to engineering there unless you absolutely love the subject and want to be an engineer when you graduate.
Do not worry about your school and do not change your major.
If you focus on getting a killer GPA and networking with every one then you have a solid chance. I got coffee with a ton of graduating seniors heading to JPM, GS, Barclays, etc and that alone can change every thing for you. People from your school will help you A LOT as long as you don't sound like an entitled brat who was born to do investment banking. And of course, just get awesome grades and your good.
BTW, I am from a non target top 20 public business school. If you show you are passionate, a hard worker, and not a boner and a pretty cool person to be around, then you should have an opportunity.
Also, make sure you actually know what investment banking is. Can't tell you how many people have said that they love picking stocks so that is why they want to do it. Always gives me a chuckle. Just my 2 cents and good luck with the whole process. You got a long way to go its just the beginning
I went to a non-Ivy and I now have the option of joining Citigroup's analyst class of 2007. Just know what you want and go for it. I would highly recommend that you intern for someone who's in the industry. They can vouch for you when you need them. Good luck.
if u majored in finance or econ....and u don't break into IB, what other good jobs are there in these fields? and lots of oppurtunity to grow?
But what if your grades are really low but everything else looks good?.. (ECs, experience in IB, leadership, awards, etc)
Sorry kid, but GPA is the #1 screening tool. You don't have a shot without a 3.8+ to be frank.
I'm a non target who ended up getting 3 bb offers and 5 mm offers. I have a 3.3. Don't spread the lie that if you don't have 3.8 you are screwed.
Try leveraged finance. Still get paid well and get to work on deals that typically have defined beginning and end in contrast to Ibanking
One word.
Horizons.
I'm currently at a non-Ivy schooland am trying to align myself to bust into IBanking.
A few things I'm doing: -Double major: Finance and Financial Accounting -Extra Cir: Joining Finance Club and applying for VP finance in Mgmt club. -Picking up extra Math/Quant classes with my electives vs. taking easier "GPA boosting" classes. -Trying to land an internship this upcoming summer crosses fingers
-double major is gd -extra are weak -math quant electives are not really "math". they're too easy to be of any practical purpose - gpa boosting classes sound gd unless your recruiter looks at your transcript and realize that that is the reason for your gpa -internship would be helpful, but it depends on where you are and what you do
You definitely do not HAVE to have a perfect GPA but it helps a lot just to get into the interview. But having a high one just makes things a bit easier for you so that is just my advice.
vitaminwater are you in lev fin? if so would you be willing to talk offline as I am a 2nd year looking at other groups to transition to.
Thats true, to each its own.
what do you guys think of LSE in terms of Street reputation and Ibanking in NYC?
I attend Morehead State in Kentucky and I get laughed at when I call some of these PE and BB looking for answers. I am a Real Estate and Finance majors looking to get in somewhere on the west coast, any help?
test
word on the street is, network. find grads of your school who are somehow in the industry and call them for help.
LSE is top notch.
Some firms look at online applications very closely. Don't neglect this route..
i went to a non-target school. very difficult to get involved but it was possible. those who got selected were smart, ethnically diverse, involved in their community, very polished individuals. that said, anyone can get involved if you're persistent -- that's what i'm hoping for.
While it may help, graduating ivy is not required. Look at the profiles of Goldman's analyst. Most of the kids went to schools most of us never heard of. Be tenacious and follow-up. Most importantly, have a perfect gpa and great extracurriculars.
what
thanks
Does Indiana University really have large recruiting classes?
Yes, here is a list of last year's placements for Indiana University. I posted this a couple of months ago.
Indiana sent 59 full timers to investment banking firms in 2006. Not all of them were in the investment banking workshop. Here is the breakdown:
corporate finance: 49 Sales & trading: 5 Private Wealth Management: 3 Other: 2 (1 in compliance for Goldman the other in valuation for Duff and Phelps)
By location: New York: 31 Chicago: 20 Cleveland: 2 San Francisco: 2 Atlanta: 1 Charlotte: 1 Stamford: 1 Milwaukee: 1
Banc of America: 5 Bear Stearns: 11 Blackstone: 1 British Petroleum: 1 Brown Gibbons Lang: 2 Credit Suisse: 1 CRT Capital: 1 Deutsche Bank: 5 DRW Trading: 2 Duff & Phelps: 1 Goldman Sachs: 6 Houlihan Lokey: 2 Harris Nesbitt: 1 JP Morgan: 8 Lehman Brothers: 2 Lincoln Partners: 2 Merrill Lynch: 2 Robert Baird: 1 Think Equity: 1 UBS: 1 Wachovia: 1 William Blair: 1
For a state university, Indiana does very well. Outside of Northwestern and Michigan no school is better in the Big 10 at getting students into ibanking. That is at the undergraduate level.
So how do you actually get a hold of Alumni in IB. I've done numerous searches and have yielded no results. What else can I do?
I am a UT alum and plenty of banks recruited there, but only the best rise to the top.
I am a UT alum and plenty of banks recruited there, but only the best rise to the top.
If you went to NYU you'll do fine.
Provident sint sint in repudiandae mollitia. Repellendus tempore in aspernatur temporibus. Omnis repudiandae consectetur quia mollitia et.
Temporibus eum omnis quidem voluptates placeat. Aperiam soluta quia placeat modi optio qui eaque. Ad beatae explicabo qui. Quis rerum non quae veritatis ipsam voluptates.
Repudiandae architecto dolor sunt expedita. Autem vero quia hic occaecati sunt.
Et at voluptatem fuga. Et adipisci animi non sunt. Occaecati qui sit cum ducimus facilis et. Incidunt dicta tempora commodi voluptates laboriosam accusantium.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Pariatur praesentium accusamus facilis totam. Autem eligendi adipisci est vitae. Qui dicta quia eveniet omnis totam odio.
Ut sapiente aut cum totam. Consectetur nostrum numquam facere labore nostrum et quas. Unde labore vero possimus sit error. Dolorem dicta voluptatum quisquam vero vero.
Et impedit qui tempora officia. Culpa sint aut ex vel occaecati est delectus. Officiis quia non natus repellendus quisquam magnam beatae. Odio commodi voluptatem ea provident nulla porro et.
Commodi commodi similique a consequatur illum. Nisi sint nostrum dolores et libero qui et dolore. Ut quia et incidunt perspiciatis aperiam.
Modi eum inventore blanditiis qui similique in. Eos corrupti consequatur omnis voluptate.
Beatae modi ad illum sunt velit ullam. Dignissimos neque rerum ullam quasi eveniet ipsum.