Is IB the highest paying career right now?
After recent base salary increases across all Investment banks, is it now the most lucrative career in term of pays, better than Tech?
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No thx
Not going to make any comparisons to Tech but as a 2nd year at a lower BB I cleared over 200K this year. Pretty happy with my comp.
If an analyst 3 at evercore makes 140k base and pulls a 110k bonus (honestly like middle bucket for them) they’re hitting 250k. Not to mention probably 180-200kish the previous two years.
I’ll take that all fucking day
Did they raise base to 140 for A3?
Yes, I believe they are 120/130/140.
When people say 80 hour work week, do they actually do 80 hours of work or just messing around a lot of the times?
IB is a 24/7 job, with maybe 60-70 hours of real work a week
It's not so much messing around, it's waiting for comments / feedback. Productive analysts prep things in downtime. It's probably ~60 hours a week of actual deal work, then ~20 downtime.
IB
Lol 150k in tech is super low out of undergrad for a technical engineering role.
I got on offer for that doing project mgt in a back office role at faang where coding knowledge wasn't required.
Could you elaborate more on the role of your offer for that back-office FAANG job? Like my username says, I hate my current job (bitchwork consulting) and am interested in transitioning into a job that doesn't require coding knowledge in the big tech companies.
No way a junior level guy is making $300k at a hedge fund? They probably have a higher income/ceiling in later years but early on isn't hedge fund base comp lower?
No the 300+ is right even junior if it’s a good fund
At BW all in you'll be at about 250
Hidden
People start at faang and the hft quant firms in tech roles at 250 to 300k total comp in soft eng roles. 40 hrs a week. First job out of undergrad.
If you don't believe me fine, but I've seen the offers first hand.
Nothing beats that.
Can confirm lol - my friend gets paid 1mm at fang but he is a machine learning nerd
Yeah, sounds miserable. Who would want to do that lol
From what I read, and I might be worng, Faang pays around 150-180K for entry level engineer . Regarding HF not all quant prop shops pay that's much. Only firms like jane street and Hudson river pay these figures. In addition, they hire a few hundreds where BB and EB hire thousands of students. Besides, the vast majority of people working at these firms have PHDs.
faang pays higher
i worked at an HFT shop (disregard my analyst name), and they were handing out offers that matched IB analyst all in comp to HR, project management, communications coordinator etc etc.....non tech positions
people really have no idea how much money flows around the world. they hear stories about people getting 50k offers out of college and think "oh...my IB salary must be so much then"....
theres a lot more money flowing around this economy than people realize
Can confirm my friend got $1.5M starting salary out of college at a FAANG but he did take a class in AI.
Hahahahahaha
Second this. Even middle-tier quant shops pay 250K out of college. And the CAGR is insane, more insane than banking (assuming you aren't stupid ofc)
.
To all the HF and quant and top tier tech people - can we recognize that these roles are far more limited and far higher barrier to entry than virtually every bank offering 150k+ as an analyst 1?
and not to mention much more variable than an career in IB
^ this is what most people here are missing. you probably need your next door neighbor who knows someone to even get an interview
I’d rather be a professional baseball player (preferably DH or outfield) or a social media star than in banking.
Would you really prefer to play for the Yankees rather than align logos at 3am? Who would've thought?
Apparently not, everyone on this site says you can just work in tech and make anywhere from $700-900k directly out of college. Oh and it’s ~20 hours a week and unlimited PTO.
I think if you keep scrolling the Tech offers just keep getting bigger.
IB has usually been the highest paying role out of undergrad with the exception of a few quant HFs. Issue is there are many other roles now that offer similar comp, more interesting work, far better WLB, and an equally exciting career trajectory. There are fewer of these seats but typically best and brightest go for these roles instead. IB used to be only game in town.
Can you expound on what some of those rolls are? Thanks
probably referring to buyside analyst roles
Yeah my bad on lack of specificity. Buyside analyst jobs, such as top HF, LO AM, MF PE, etc. There are very few of these spots, but it’s possible from a top school. Typically the best students go for these positions rather than IB. 10+ years ago, the top few students would probably end up at GS or MS. Now they’ll probably end up on the buyside.
Maybe on a risk adjusted basis
Others have mentioned many of the key points.
1) if you want to work in finance, IB has the best “probability weighted comp”. In that there are a lot of roles and the pay is mostly uniform across the major banks (and generally high)
2) tech is a totally different career, but if you just want to compare comp, then tech is pretty close on that same metric. There are more and more roles becoming available across more firms (so it is no longer comparing just google to all banks). Pay is less uniform (even within a firm new hires won’t get paid the same, even for same roles) and can be heavily stock based. But if you compare FAANG swe to IB, first year comp will be similar (although since IB is pretty broad I believe they’ll have more roles and more pay consistency). Wider range in tech here (stars get more guaranteed comp early on)
3) quant and HF pay the most, have the most volatility in comp, most variability across firms, least job security, and are extremely limited in the number of roles so it isn’t a reasonable comparison.
Curious, if you had to guess what is the total headcount for investment banking roles.
One thing that people from the tech side don't mention is that tech people pay their dues as well. It's not as simple as "$150K at 40 hrs/wk". What do I mean by that?
I had a few friends in college who managed to score FAANG jobs out of school. These people were CONSTANTLY working in college. Doing well in coursework isn't enough to cut it at a FAANG. You need to do well in coding contests, and have multiple side projects to showcase on your resume as well as relevant internships. These kids were probably working 70-80 hours in college, and always seemed sleep deprived whenever I met them. Not because they were partying or were just goofing off, but because they spent the night debugging some program which had several thousand lines. Even when we would talk it was rare that they didn't have their laptop on the side while talking to me. It would even take them a day or two to respond to texts with the "sorry been busy" line when they did respond. I even know a few that strategically picked dorms close to their college to cut down on commute and spend more time doing hw/projects.
The truth is that is in IB you do 2-3 years out of school to pay your dues and then the cushy role you get after is (roughly) equivalent (assuming you don't do PE) to the tech guy who paid his dues for 3-4 years in undergrad, assuming both you and the tech guy actually succeeded while paying the dues.
This is a good point man CS majors go through hell in college and the interviews are also a grind. It’s more competitive too because some of those fuckers are so smart and dedicate their lives to it
Good point. Looks like every top career will require a sacrifice in one way or another.
I personally know 3 people that have broken into FB SWE. It is patently false to suggest that tech recruiting comes down to the technical rounds. Like I mentioned to the other commenter it’s just a check in the box like it is for IB. The self-directed side projects and coding contests carry far more weight in the final decision and that on top of coursework is why tech kids grind throughout college. This simply is not the same as networking and cold-calling. Personally I enjoy networking and learning from other people’s experiences so I didn’t find the social interactions to be “work” at all. I can’t imagine this is the same for someone who likes coding and has to debug 1000 lines of code to find that extra comma or semicolon. I think it’s also important that we define cushy. If you want to remain at the lower levels then yes you can clock in 40-50 hours and check out. I’ve been told though a sizable group of SWE’s work weekends and evenings to try to get ahead and get promoted, so the tech lifestyle is really what you make of it (if you manage to break in).
lol grinding IB interviews is nowhere as hard as grinding leetcode for top tech jobs. All you really need to do for most IB interviews is to memorize the 6 chapters of the BIWS guide to be able to answer 99% of technical questions and keep up a decent gpa (which is a lot easier to do if you're a business/econ major than if you're a computer science major). The amount of work that my Comp Sci friends have gotten in college is easily 2-3x the amount of work that I've gotten as a business major (top 3 undergrad business school). Not saying IB isn't hard (it's still hard af lol), I just think studying for interviews at top SWE positions is harder. Just my two cents.
It's really not that hard to get a FAANG offer these days (in particular F & Amazon have hired so many people) -> for example, when I was interviewing at FB they only asked tagged LC questions
How many leetcodes did you do to get an offer?
To be clear I was referring to SWE only. Regarding technical rounds, I’ve heard they’re relatively easy, and that they don’t do much more than filter out the incompetent candidates. It’s like technicals in IB- if you miss enough you’ll come across as unprepared and get canned, but getting them all right is no guarantee of a job as multiples of the spaces open will get every single technical right.
why do people think this is a good point lol. I was a CS major at a target and this is not remotely true. was in a frat and had a great social life en route to an IB internship and FAANG job. CS definitely takes some more time than a stereotypical Econ major but the problems are way more interesting than what u get in IB
Dude I’m fucking tired of this mythologizing of kids that get FAANG offers. The vast majority of them are NOT international math champions or people that grinded 80 hours a week in college to get a 4.0 at Harvard. Just call as it is, every single person I know with a FAANG offer barely went to class and has a nerdy personality that meant they enjoyed working on code and were naturally good at it. It didn’t even feel like work to them. Most of them have fun hobbies and outside commitments (sure it might be ultimate frisbee team but still) and aren’t just grinding leetcode all day.
100%, def different personalities but they aren’t gods or even close to it … lol
people like to deify things they don’t understand / can’t relate to. I get this all the time from folks telling me how insanely technical you have to apparently be to do the job I’m literally doing (product) - just misinformed folks spewing misinformed garbage.
This sounds like Cal
THat's why i recommend working at BOFA where you get deez nuts as pay
All I know is my friend who accepted a SWE position at Facebook out of undergrad got a signing bonus equivalent to his base pay. Seems like he probably made more than the bankers.
Lol anyone that still supports banking is just biased for themselves. Any retard can do banking if they wanna work hard enough and spend 90 hours of their life grinding. If ur smart, do tech or MBB and get paid for ur brains. if ur retarded but wor hard, enter IB and get paid for ur slave labor
smart people can still go into finance lol - its what you like - unless you plan on being an analyst for the rest of your career.
Yeah if I have brain let me take it to mbb and get paid nothing for it while they run me around the midwest like a dog
As a CS and MATH major who turned down quant offers for EB. The average FAANG SWE engineer will not make more than the average person in a top IB/PE/HF gig. Most SWEs tap out/don't get promoted when they reach L5 at Google (E5 @ facebook). I've heard stories of people staying at L5 7-10 years before leaving.The comp at L5 is >400k and 50% of that will be stock. The average SWE will make it to L5 with 4-6 YOE, which is the time people in IB are making 350+ as an associate/VP or starting to accumulate carry/co-invest in PE/HF. The above comments are correct about quant HFs likely paying the highest, but the career stability is much more volatile as a buyside quant, and as a sell-side quant your comp is a bit lower working at a bank. The upside in the sell-side and buyside is much higher than in tech, and it's much easier to get to VP+ in finance than in tech. WLB is obviously better in tech, but most finance people/personalities would not enjoy being in tech. Lastly, quants don't have to optionality you get in IB or PE. I know people who went to quant after their analyst stint in IB and after an MBA. You could go from quant back into tech, but you can't go quant to IB/PE or traditional L/S HF or LO AM. There are roles for quants at traditional L/S HF or LO AM, but quants aren't vital/critical to the success of the firm.
Edit: meant comp is <400k
the issue is that money is rarely the sole determinant of what people should choose for a career. you’ll have worked away your 20s for what? you only get your 20s once
I came from a solidly middle-class family where my dad was a blue-collar worker, and my mom has a white-collar job. My sole reason for the route I chose was because of money. Also, I don't buy into the "what about your 20s" narrative because I'm not into what most people mean when they say that. You don't suddenly turn 30 and get old. Also, I can just go to an M7 MBA and do a 2-year break to "enjoy my twenties". Most people who tend to complain about banking come from upper-middle-class or wealthy families. Compared to the job my dad has (and he loves it), working 80-90 hours in a cubicle doing Excel and PowerPoint is a piece of cake, and I'll be making 2.5-3.5x more. Nothing worthwhile is easy, and sometimes you have to "sacrifice". I'll take 200k+, strong network, C-suite exposure, defined and clear career path trajectory, and the ability to change my family tree and provide a lifestyle the no one in my immediate or extended family has ever had, in exchange for 4 years of working 80-90 hours 10 times out of 10.
Just out of curiosity, why did you choose the EB offer over quant?
And are you good at mental math lmao.
Optionality, and I want to try my hand in PE first. The typical D.E. Shaw all in comp, for example, is around 250k. I'll be at one of the top-paying EBs (CVP/EVR/PJT), and hopefully, with comp raises, I'll be making close to, or above that mark, so I'm not really missing out on money. If I'm not interested in PE or L/S HFs, with my background, it would be very easy for me to just go get an MBA from somewhere like MIT Sloan and get a quant role or tech job from there. I have a few mentors that went straight into quant, and they don't regret it, but since I'm confident that I can get to a quant firm down the line, I wanted to try traditional finance jobs first.
And I'm not the greatest with mental math, but definitely enough to pass interviews. I can PM you a website to practice if you're interested lmao
I agree with everything you said, but I hope you aren't implying going from something like IB to Quant is easy just because you've seen a couple guys make the transition. It's "easy" only because the vast majority of trading firms and quantitative hedge funds value intelligence over past work experience, but you still have to be able to pass their rigorous interview process, and I'm inclined to say that 99% of investment bankers and others in pure finance roles lack the ability to do so.
For young adults 22-30 highest paying gigs are definitely:
You’ll struggle to find folks punching to that level outside that. Highest potential of those at that stage is high finance, quant finance, art / ent / sports and equity in successful startups.
After 30, you can lump in:
into the mix.
The range here is basically $200-250k to 7 / 8+ figs.
This isn’t even including entrepreneurship which has a higher ceiling than basically anything above.
So no, banking is not the only high paying career.
TLDR - average banker makes more than average tech. However top ten % in tech make more than top 10% in banking
disagree with this.. a top 10% IB MD (individual contributor not management) is making $5-10m+.
a top 10% high level (L7 / L8) IC SWE at the best paying tech companies tops out at $1-2m (and it’s really top 10% of the top 1-3% that make it to those levels within those companies talk of across all top companies - way more than the top 1-3% of career bankers make it to MD).
only time the latter comes close is with attractively priced pre-IPO equity or insane public stock price appreciation.
Agreed - so the top tech companies that matter the equity appreciation is just insane but you make a good point
I'm not sure this is true. There's a tighter bottleneck for IB / finance post-ASO, while pretty much every SWE can make it to L5 / $400k-$500k. Sure, theoretical earnings potential at the senior level is higher in IB, but such a tiny percentage of people in finance make it there that I'm not sure how relevant it is. Not to mention that at the actual upper levels (founders, C-suite) tech out earns finance massively.
Banking is pretty lockstep til about the MD promote years so not sure how the “bottleneck” tightens post-ASO. Most people who leave banking do so for exit opps not because they got fired. Most people who /want/ to become career high finance people will eventually make it to a senior role not so in tech.
Meanwhile in tech it’s exponentially harder to get each level after L5 (which is a terminal level and where most people will get to in their careers - there is 0 expectation to move up unlike banking). The distribution of headcount is something like 40% L5 -> ~15% L6 -> ~2-3% L7 -> <1% L8. Only rockstars fly past levels most people struggle to get promo’d to even L6.
We’re comparing like for like here. IC MD vs high level tech worker. If we start talking about VPs, C-suite, founders in tech then you have to start talking about group heads, division heads, C-suites, founders in high finance.
YouTubers are making millions playing stupid pranks on other people
As an anecdote for many of you. I'm in my late 20's, graduated with a 3.2 from a target school, and am about 6-7 years out of school. My graduating class had something ridiculous like 60 go into investment banking and 40 go into sales & trading. We had one of those pretty tight knit Wall Street type of prep clubs at my school. Those 100 kids don't count the ones that went into asset management. But anyways, out of the 60 that went into IB... today there are 2 left as IB Associates and 1 as a VP. Out of the 40 that went into Sales & Trading only 2 are left at the VP level. At an asset management firm, my pay started out at a big discount compared to all those S&T and IB people, but today I can confidently say that out of those 100 that went the IB/S&T route, my consistent (and most importantly) livable career path in asset management has afforded me the opportunity to not burn out and be amongst the highest earners of that class. I can confidently measure myself with data against those that went into PE or corporate america. The HF guys there is wide discrepancy so idk how much they are making. The ones that went the 2 years IB to 2 years PE guys, those dudes made more than me while in PE, but once they were done with the program and pursued other paths, I'm pretty confident my earnings passed there's.
Why do I mention this? It is not for vindication at all. What I am trying to say is that for many of you, the bumps in pay for the 3 years of analyst roles is a very relevant number and development. However for the associate pay that number is so irrelevant at this point as past data proves that you are unlikely (either through your own choice or through the firm's choice) to ever even get to the second year associate level.
What do you make in AM? I’d love the work but I thought comp was trending down in a big way.
Comparable to banking. The problem is there aren’t enough spots and they don’t constantly hire. I have a team that hasn’t hired anyone in 5 years, we take interns to be good corporate citizens but rarely offer those interns full time offers. A portfolio could literally double in AUM and you would just need to add like 2 more to your staff.
Serious doubt about whether I should take the FT offer for IB after reading this... Any suggestions on what I should do without even knowing my context? Thanks!
Become a product manager
People comparing high-end Quant and Big-Tech ML/AI engineering roles to Investment Banking are totally off - a large portion of the banker/consultant/MBA archetypes couldn't get to the level of sophistication needed to be that elite on the Dev side even if they went back and re-did their undergrad
If we are okay doing NON-apples-to-apples comparisons like this then the un-drafted NBA rookie minimum is $898,310
I've heard this point a lot, but I actually think the comparison is fair. They're both high income careers targeted by the best students. Bringing up the NBA rookie doesn't make sense because these jobs are very rare. Chances are, 99% of student athletes won't become professional. However, there is a good chance you could get a good job at Big Tech or a job in IB given you put in the effort. Vast majority of students who are getting into BB/EB IB now are probably smart and hardworking enough that if they focused on tech throughout undergrad, they would get a great engineering role at FAANG. I've seen many people intern in IB and then go to FAANG full time and the other way around as well.
I think you are vastly overestimating how hard it is to get into FAANG. Maybe the finance majors from state schools that had average grades, partied all day, and got into IB through connections are too dumb for FAANG - you are right on that. But anyone else with at least a couple brain cells, with a couple months of focused studying, can easily get an offer from FAANG. Amazon is almost a joke to get into right now, although once you're in the workload and stress kind of suck, but the money is still solid. And still much, much better than IB imo
Levels.fyi is a site with relatively accurate pay for tech. If that’s what You’re looking for. Not 100% accurate but it’s ballpark.
The Blind app has way more info. A lot of the info above is wrong btw, faang hires thousands of people a year. Amazon has literally 4K interns each year. And you don’t need to have side projects etc. I didn’t, and don’t know anybody who did. You are not judged on your resume during interviews either. It is 100% your performance. Source: have interviewed and reviewed many candidates.
TC 315, years of experience 3
Don’t most analysts make associate if they want to do Ibanking?
If they are good enough to become an associate then yes they become associates. There’s isn’t much “I need to compete against the others for the surviving associate position” like there is on the buy side. The problem against those talented enough to become associates is that many of them don’t become associates by their own choosing. They *choose* to not become an associate, even if that means they don’t have an equally good or equally paying option that they have by turning down the associate position.
Also the associate pay and the large associate bonuses are for M&A and coverage bankers providing *advice* and advisory work. These bonuses and salaries aren’t as high for those product or financing groups at the banks who still get away with calling themselves investment bankers and part of the investment banking division.
I’ve seen guys that handle structured product, syndicated loans, MBS etc still be called investment bankers. They’re not making $100k+ bonuses their final year as an analyst nor are they breaking $300k as senior associates. It’s a meaningful pay drop. I’ve seen a lot of advisory and M&A or coverage bankers become associates or even VP’s at other parts of the banks that aren’t as sexy because they simply could not see themselves being advisory bankers long term.
The number of incredibly talented students who were my peers and friends who went on to careers as bulge bracket investment banking analysts, the number of those guys who I’ve seen fall of the “path” and do something completely irrelevant with their careers is honestly quite concerning to me.
What? Financing / capital markets is definitely investment banking. GS Financing bonuses this year for example were in-line with Classic. SVB-L is a mostly capital markets / ECM shop that compensates at top of the market.
Note: I'm at a boutique where dealflow is about 80% M&A
You know that the term “investment banking” originated from the capital markets business right? M&A came later on.
If you don't think their are capital markets groups providing meaningful advisory work to clients then you are clueless
Not even close, tech pays much better considering benefits, stock appreciation, and pay on an hourly basis. And Quant is even better than tech.
Faang might pay more than MS/JPM. However, pay at EVR/CVP/PJT is way better than tech. Regarding quant, Quant roles that make 300k directly after college are limited.
Sure, but I could also argue that roles at EVR/CVP/PJT are limited. Roles at FAANG are not limited - in fact, there's a bit of a shortage. You don't have to have elite connections to get these 150k+ comps that barely require 40 hours a week from home, literally just study for a couple months on the side during undergrad and your chance of landing a big tech role is huge. Compare that to all the nepotism mumbo jumbo that goes on in those elite banks.
I doubt it.
if you look at things through a purely employee mindset, then IB is a solid career in terms of comp.
However, if you consider ownership, e-commerce, etc, then IB pay can seem like peanuts.
For a forum that is so focused on prestige, I am surprised by how many here think like an employee.
P.S. Naomi Osaka made $60 million in one year, more than what the vast majority of people in finance would make in a lifetime - and this includes highly talented money managers.
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All I know is that I’m at a top group at a top EB and I fully expect to pull in $500k+ this year. I know people who make more at other places/jobs, but IB still seems pretty damn good.
Lol do you not read what you type? This is the clearest example of apex fallacy.
no.
Lets be honest with ourselves on this forum - all the IB guys get upset at this topic because they trade 80-100hrs for less than Big Tech SWEs/Prop Shops/HFs and then talk about C-suite exposure bla bla.
Without sounding like a douche, the people securing HF/MF PE Analyst/Prop Shop roles out of college are slightly better than the people going to IB and/or they have major technical/math skills that enable them to do big tech SWE. Not saying IB is bad out of college because it definitely isn't, it just is not the best paying and nor is it the best job someone can get out of college.
You’re considered “just out of college” for what, 2 years? What about when you’re 30-40 y/o, start having kids and a family? It really depends on where you are in your career.
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Hourly no. In terms of total comp it has to be one of the top that requires only a bachelors. Petroleum engineering pays about $180k out of college but you’re stuck at that pay until you go into a managerial role.
They fired most of the petroleum engineers during Covid. Those undergrad programs have shrunk their class sizes because the hiring outlook is terrible
Closer to $150k than $180 when you talk about recurring compensation and exclude a few co’s with huge signing packages
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