Oncycle is a fucking joke
It’s 2am, and recruiters are still cold calling with a “are you free? fund x wants to hop on the phone ASAP” and getting emails with “MODELING TEST TONIGHT”
who the fuck thinks this is a good way to recruit talent? absolute joke
update: got an MF offer on day 3, absolutely exhausted. i stand by my points above.
Mod Note: Here are some more PE recruiting related discussions:
Heard on-cycle kicked off last night
It's wack, but lowkey I love this shit. It's kind of a rush/high pressure, and I prefer that over some long, drawn-out process
adrenaline junkies haha
Hasn't it always been like that though? That was my expectation about on-cycle at least. Only those who want it really bad and are well prepared will have a good outcome
Except half of the head hunters haven't even had introductory calls yet. So how are we supposed to have interviews and modeling tests with firms if we haven't even spoken to the head hunters in the first place?
look up which HH your target fund use and reach out to them directly & lay out your preferences and profile out right. Top funds always get the head start and rest pick up from there. Better be proactive now if you want to recruit for MF but haven’t gotten intro yet
Absolute mess of a process. Have spent probably 90% of the time on zoom waiting rooms smh. Firms just blatantly trying to waste our time at this point
For what it’s worth they would have just wasted your time putting you in some office / conference room if things were in person this year
Screw PE, imagine taking a pay cut for the same hours just to be back on the bottom of the totem pole. All that “investing” isn’t what you’re doing as a junior. Just another 2 years of crap. Rather go corporate.
ngmi
No, you’re not ngmi clown
Just saying this is inaccurate. From a top paying EB and going to a MF after this cycle, definitely getting a pay raise - all aspects of pay on buyside were increased this year in response to IB raises.
Could you benchmark what the buyside raises have been in your experience?
Can confirm - friends received 11pm / midnight emails to interview. Obviously on-cycle is always chaotic, but this year just seems like an absolute disaster given the virtual nature + the fact HHs have had literally only 3-4 days to meet candidates.
Anyone who's been interviewing want to opine on how their process has been going so far? Seems like most A2's will just gun for 2022 off-cycle.
That's pretty crazy but it also makes a little sense. When I was an analyst, I was available every night at 11 p.m.except for maybe the weekend. Also, a little easier to slip out at that time of night.
Also another side thought, if you're bothered by a PE fund that does calls at 2 a.m., then it sounds like you don't need the interview. You don't want to work at that fund. If this is how it starts, the job is probably going to be much much worse.
Not sure how what you're saying is relevant. Point isn't that interviewing late at night is surprising or an issue. Everyone expects that lol.
It's that the process has been a mess largely due to HHs having literally 3 days to meet people (i.e. headhunter meetings were last Tuesday-Friday, and TB kicked off on-cycle on 9/11), whereas typically there's ~3 weeks from outreach to kick-off.
Doesn't matter, offers for APO, BX, KKR, WP and others have already been given out..
Thanks Intern in IB - CB
I have an interview with one of these in a half hour, just because they had a round of interviews doesn’t mean they’re done recruiting. Do people think these firms fill their entire class from the first 10 people they talk to? It keeps going with more and more rounds until the class is filled up.
Ah the classic scaremonger returns.
Always present on every recruiting thread be it SA, FT or OC BS.
Some of that does sound pretty crazy but honestly that's the job market. People are not here to kiss your ass. Have not received 2 a.m calls but in the regular job market, plenty of stuff like, "Hey can you come in for an interview tomorrow at 10 a.m."
I sometimes wonder if PE recruitment is really as crazy as people say it is on WSO or whether they are encountoring a real job market process for the first time in their life?
Note on campus recruitment is not real life as far as how recruitment goes...so some of this may be a shock to those that have never done it.
LOL you do realize that getting a call at 2am asking to interview at 3am (and pull an all-nighter interviewing) is a LOT different than being told to come in at 10am the next morning right?
Lol, you're the one that doesn't realize my comment noted the difference!
On cycle recruiting is one of few accurate things on WSO. It is a shit show for both the candidates and firms. I work at one of the MFs and we literally had people running around interviewing all night with limited sleep.
What’s w all these random ppl commenting about on-cycle PE recruiting?
Everyone who was actually participating in this process wasn’t on WSO lol
Completely agree - think everyone expects on-cycle to be a shitshow. Moreso was just pointing out that this isn't a characteristic of "regular" job recruiting processes in all other industries as well (i.e. SWE, consulting, etc.)
On cycle has been a shitshow since way back. Interview notifications past 11pm and final rounds stretching to 2-3am have always been pretty common (at least since 2010ish when the cycle starting pushing way up). What’s different / worse this year is that zoom allows people to interview that night vs. having the decency to wait until 7am.
If they are interviewing people at midnight, that's a big red flag for culture and work life balance.
Imagine trying to interview a top quant or software engineer at 2am. They would tell you to phuck off and basically get the firm blackballed on levels/blind/glassdoor. Goodbye engineering talent going forward.
Finance is full of huge cucks to put up with this.
As and ex-associate turned MLE at FAANG, can attest to the correctness of this.
Share more mate - what % of com did you have to trade off, how many hours WLB improved by, overall did you think it was worth it, etc.
Cheers
Came to this thread to add what the above poster said. Huge red flag on culture for any firms allowing 3am interviews or modeling tests. You might just be an analyst but your time is still worth something.
Yeah getting a good PE offer is great, but don't forget you need to be able to survive the 2 years.
its actually offensive to to an interview at midnight. have some dignity
Is it to early to exit after 1,5 years in your opinion to middle sized PE firms? (I’m terms of probability, HH reaching out, possibilities etc.). I am totally exhausted after 1 year and 2 months and would like to exit ASAP to a smaller PE firm with good hours.
Work at a BB in the Nordics at the moment and graduated from European target.
Thanks a lot!
/A2
Can't speak for Europe, but this is very common in the US
Thank god the person above said it. Like there’s just no way you have someone interview at 2am if you respect juniors. Furthermore, you likely also aren’t trying to recruit critical thinkers if that’s your approach—you just want hardos that will grind. Software engineers or quants at hedge funds wouldn’t put up with this they’d just go somewhere else—but the insecurity mixed with prestige has kids so lost in the sauce they will do anything.
I think y'all are missing the point. The firm is trying to interview the "top" candidates before they take an offer elsewhere. Having been on the other side a few years now, I see the rationale. Good candidates go fast.
Everyone gets the rationale—you only get the hardos who are willing to put up with that bullshit and make a decision on little information/ without talking to other firms. It’s the exact same rationale for reaching out to banking candidates as sophomores in college. Anecdotally, I don’t think it actually gets better candidates from looking at where my friends ended up and the dipshits I know at megafunds, but hey maybe you are right.
As a dipshit going to a MF, this is pretty true. Id consider myself a grinder / bit of a hardo, which is why im in this industry in the first place and got locked into it due to sophomore year recruiting, but my really intelligent friends from college went to academia/quant/startups. You dont gotta be smart to do pe/consulting/swe at the entry level tbh, but that’s good for people like me lol
At an EB, when I got my internship offer (Fall 2018, I recruited late) I also had offers on the table from Google, Facebook, Microsoft, and Amazon slinging code (didn't think I was going to get into banking) ... pay was more, hours were less and I still choose the EB. Is something wrong with my head?
if ur smart enough to code, especially at Goog/FB, i think ur 100% wasting ur time in banking. wish i could be in ur shoes lol
Bro honestly you dont gotta be smart to code. I think it seems difficult for someone who hasnt learned it because it’s not as intuitive, but if you ever take an intro CS class, it’s not that hard. And for interviewing, there’s a cracking the coding interview guide thats like their version of the M&I.
IDK I had to withdraw from my intro to CS class because I couldn't hack it. But maybe I'm just dumb lol
Shit, maybe im actually smart then? Or dumb for not going into tech
I don't think you made the wrong decision. In banking, you can much more at the senior positions so you end up earning a lot more in the long run.
Think about the number of MD seats there are relative to analysts and think about why on a risk / probability-adjusted basis, tech is pretty much even with finance in terms of comp.
Sure, finance might earn more at the mid-upper level (MD / senior management), but escaping the analyst bottleneck is much more difficult than tech, where you can basically lounge until L5 ($500k comp). Comparatively, making VP in IB is much more difficult and has greater risk of burnout.
After that, founders make significantly more in tech than finance. There's a reason the billionaire list is dominated by tech. Finance wealth also takes way longer to build (consider Steve Schwarzman, one of the most successful people in finance - not only he is worth a fraction of Bezos / Zuck / Musk, but it took him decades longer to get there).
or they could......offer something else to candidates other than being first to talk to them at 3am.....
like....oh i dont know, respect for their time, a great culture, decent WLB
thats what software companies do, and they pay their people 500k plus easily.....there so much demand for talent they HAVE to
This $500k easy like for SWEs is getting a bit out of hand.
it is not easy to make $500k. That’s deep into L6 territory and only ~30% of Sr SWEs ever make L6 and they’re like ~10-12% of the engineering population. Please stop spouting nonsense.
Has Genstar started giving offers yet?
I am so tired….
Anyone know who has given offers yet? Had a interviews yesterday with a few funds but haven't heard anything back from either the HH or the funds themselves..
Maybe, it weeds out people not willing to work until 2 a.m and do all kinds ridiculous stupid requests ASAP. If the recruitment bothers you, it sounds like you shouldn't work there.....
Do you think the recruitment process is the worst part and then it'll all be easy after that? This screwed up process sounds like a harbinger of things to come if you accept to job. You probably don't want to work for these guys.
Exactly. If this fucked up process deters my competition from interviewing/accepting an offer there, that’s good for me
This
Linden is interviewing today.
Why bother? PE is dead anyways, returns are becoming lower, PEs negotiate about some decimal places to reach hurdle rate, and even MF are cutting costs which were considered peanuts back then.. it ain't the 80s guys, doesn't bode well for the future
C'mon man...its better than making PIBs for a living
Just let us feel better about not landing a PE role
Has Apollo kicked off their process yet? Don't think I've heard it mentioned among all the other names that are active right now
Yes, friend got offers. Apollo is among the first to kick off the process
Fuck on cycle. This shit is so bogus.
sounds like it's all wrapping up around now...didn't get offers where I wanted so gonna hold off till off-cycle
anyone in the same boat?
Yeah same here
FUCK man
Same boat, pulled nearly an all nighter the first night it on-cycle kicked off but gave up. Got too much work to catch up on already at my ACTUAL job.
It's definitely not wrapping up yet! I'm sure a bunch of funds have, but still getting tons of HH emails for interviews with very reputable MM/UMM funds.
Not just for candidates, which obviously is a joke. Is my firm asked me to interview someone past midnight (hell, past 8pm), I would just say no.
OK to work late on live deals (not that I like working late), but not for this
It's a broken system. At a UMM fund that filled ~50% of its incoming class - we don't do exploding offers or 2 AM interviews but the process could have been managed so much more effectively. There are still a few hundred kids who haven't met with CPI yet so we aren't in any rush to fill our class at the moment. Based on what I've heard from friends at other UMM funds, a lot of them are also holding a significant portion of their classes vacant so I wouldn't lose hope.
I personally know of kids who went off market with offers at MFs on Day 1 who are ridiculously awful analysts. Many of these firms are cutting modeling tests / skimping on interviews and/or hiring based on pedigree and I can tell you many of them will be in for a rude awakening pretty soon.
Went through the process and also didn’t get any offers. Can someone give me a bit encouragemen?
.
We’ll get something! Just gotta get the right opp
Use the disappointment to fuel you in the off-cycle
Keep your head up brother. Same thing happened to me where I didn't get much traction at first, but if you keep grinding you will find something. Also second wave of on-cycle is just starting to kick off - if those are funds you would be interested in.
These are analysts who just started in July? What is there to interview about, July was Series exams, August was training...It's been less than a month...Or are these 2nd year analysts
The current 2nd year analysts
Second year, these are 2022 spots.
Pro tip: stay on longer in banking, get another bonus, and exit to a sweet livable corporate gig. Or maybe a merger arb fund.
Why not go to PE instead then do that?
Bc you have to relearn all the ropes, are at the bottom again vs in staying in banking, you have more experience, can game the system, and can shove work down / push back on bullshit where you can’t as a first year in PE with brutal hours. Corporate has easy hours and some smaller hedges have a collegial vibe
Any indications on when next on-cycle (for summer 2023) is going to start?
Funds frantically doing 3am interviews because they're scared of missing out on "top talent" is an absurd concept.
Anyone else feel like they've been getting dinged from interviews for no apparent reason? I totally get how competitive these roles are, but I'm struggling to make sense of this process. I've even had a few where the interviewers literally said "great job on the technicals" or "I think you'd be a great fit here" and then get dinged for the following round. Kinda discouraging given the lack of feedback we get
I think reality is just not trying to read into anything. I had an interview with one place where they would give me a very generic “we’ll contact you via HH” and then push me forward. Had another where they were very friendly and complimentary of my case study and investment write-up and then I just never heard back. These people have done this a million times and are good at not showing their cards.
That’s because, though nobody will admit it, the recruiting process is a circle jerk of “top candidates” who aren’t actually top candidates at all.
Ever notice how the “top candidates” for IB on paper or through interviews often aren’t top bucket? It’s almost like, intangibles like grit, work ethic, and EQ matter (shocker, I know). You can’t test for that well in an interview process, let alone a 48h one. Thus was created the illusion of “top candidates” since no firm is willing to admit that hiring for PE is a total fucking crapshoot.
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