Comments (105)

  • Intern in IB - Gen
Jun 24, 2020

They highly influence your application success

    • 1
Jun 24, 2020

But like why? These games are extremely trivial. Can you be prevented from getting a hirevue if you don't do well?

path less traveled

  • Intern in IB - Gen
Jun 24, 2020

Yeah man I agree it's stupid but apparently it's an important part of their new interview process

Jun 24, 2020

For JPM?
Source?

Array

Jun 25, 2020

I'm not OP but I've networked with ~10 JPM bankers and they all say that it matters. Their exact words to me have been "it's a black box, we don't know how it works. Our recommendations don't mean anything anymore. Apparently it's all up to Pymetrics, and whoever scores in the top 25% of test takers will get a superday"

Jun 24, 2020

Heard from a JPM VP alumni last week that if you score above a 265.0, your app is tabbed for a next round

    • 4
  • Prospect in 
Jun 24, 2020

265.0 what? There's no numerics I can see

Jun 25, 2020

Exactly, it's not for you to see. It is for HR to implement and oversee so they can pretend that they too add value.

    • 21
Jun 24, 2020

Hm what were everyone's most unique? Mine were risk tolerance, decision making, and attention.

Jun 26, 2020

I got effort, focus, and learning for my top three.

    • 1
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Jun 27, 2020
  1. Risk Tolerance
  2. Focus
  3. Attention
  • Prospect in 
Jun 27, 2020

I got unique in Decision Making, Focus, and Emotion (not sure what this one means lol)

Jun 28, 2020

risk tolerance, learning and altruism

Jun 28, 2020

Altruism?
Did you give the other user $0? Lol

Array

Jun 30, 2020

I got autism, greed, and back office! My score was incredibly high in these areas. Do you think I have a shot?

    • 8
Jun 30, 2020
  1. Focus 2. Learning 3. Emotion.

I spazzed on the spacebar for that shit.

    • 1
Jun 24, 2020

Ok made it to the hirevue. Can you network at JPM past this stage?

path less traveled

Jun 24, 2020

The hirevue is automatic once you get the pymetrics. The real question is how each of these will affect suoerday consideration.

Array

  • Prospect in 
Jun 24, 2020

S/o JPM for making my parents think I'm crazy for noisily spamming my spacebar and arrow keys

    • 23
    • 1
Jun 25, 2020

i feel this lmao

Jun 25, 2020

I think it's that they take your score and compare it to people who already work at JPM - so with the retarded balloon thing, you are supposed to have a risk tolerance that is comparable to people who work at JPM. Can anyone confirm/refute?

Jun 25, 2020

So having a unique skill is bad ?

Array

    • 3
Jun 25, 2020

Can confirm. Took one for BCG, they want you to answer similarly to the people who already work there, it is a "predictor of success". But honestly, it seems like bullshit.

Another reason I was given as to why they do it is because they wanted to remove any hiring bias that is based around what school you went to/race/gender/etc. I had read somewhere on this site that JPM specifically was seeking to eliminate the idea/process of networking altogether and that they were seeking to begin solely relying on these digital evaluators to screen applicants and nearly fully automating the initial screening process.

    • 3
Most Helpful
Jun 25, 2020

I fucking hate Human Resources - waste of oxygen the lot of them.

Like out of all the things you could come up with, they pick popping balloons and spamming the space bar as a measure of potential success...

    • 26
Jun 25, 2020

Such a dumb and inaccurate strategy. I highly doubt that JPM bankers took it that seriously if they had to take it lol. If I worked there I'd deliberately fuck up my attempt to fuck with HR.

Array

    • 3
  • Intern in IB - Ind
Jun 25, 2020

Ah. The balloon thing...

  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Jun 25, 2020

We should code a shitty copy of the pymetrics games and ask WSO members who work at JPM/Blackstone to complete the tests, so we get data from which we can extrapolate what behavior is expected from applicants.

    • 10
Jun 25, 2020

Yes but the movement of the arrows/popping of balloons may not be purely random, and it's not that easy to figure out especially if the movements are conditional to the users response.

Array

Funniest
  • Incoming Analyst in IB - Gen
Jun 25, 2020

Tbh I actually like pymetrics because it is a predictor of success and it has provided me with a lot of information about the career paths that are in-line with my traits and strengths and sike bitch pymetrics is wack asl

    • 77
  • Prospect in RE - Comm
Jun 25, 2020

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/028/720/t3qkhrohrh321.jpg

    • 24
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Jun 25, 2020

I'm at a BB that planned on using it cuz JPM or Credit Suisse decide to use it. As indicated above they ask some people to take the exam first, so it could be a good indication that future applicants that generate similar result will be a good fit for the team. It's total B/S, because everyone's result was so different from each other. In the end, some MD just told HR or whoever responsible for the project that it was total B/S, I guess the HR or whoever got enough shit from senior bankers, they just stop the project.

    • 5
Jun 25, 2020

You're posting as anon, why can't you just say what bank it is?

Array

Jun 26, 2020

wait. CS has plyometrics? didn't know that. did u guys all get invited to pymetrics after applying for CS?

Jun 26, 2020

So when it comes to skin color and gender they want diversity. When it comes to how people actually think, they want conformity.

    • 9
Jun 25, 2020

I remember I did a pymetrics for JPM last year, and it legit glitched so hard on like 3 games, couldn't even finish them. just clicked around til it finally just ended.... tried calling to re-do it, and they wouldnt let me for like 365 days... just kissed that jpm app goodbye.. so stupid

Array

Jun 25, 2020

I submitted 8 fake JPM applications so I could practice/warmup on the pymetric tests. Hoping it will make up for my lack of networking (extreme non-target)

    • 13
Jun 25, 2020

... 8? Amateur

    • 2
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Jun 25, 2020

Did you actually? Lmao

Jun 26, 2020

Going to blow when one of your 8 fake apps get invited for a superday but your real one is rejected lol

    • 7
Jun 26, 2020

would be funny if the HR does that intentionally to make u get pissed lmaoo

    • 1
Jun 26, 2020

Genius. Would have never thought of that

Jun 25, 2020

"You may be best suited for work environments in which it is better to focus on one task at a time."

Okay... looks like I won't be working at JPM...

    • 6
  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Jun 25, 2020

Did that last year, got to SuperDay. I don't know how they decided who got past that round.

  • Intern in IB-M&A
Jun 25, 2020

Bunch of bs how could they even decide a top 25% when everyone has different "randomly" generated pymetrics tests it wouldn't be an even playing field

  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Jun 25, 2020

It's not randomly generated. I've taken pymetrics a few times now and it's always the same

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Jun 25, 2020

As a non target that did the pymetrics test last cycle and got superdays from legit every single role at JPM that I applied to...I love it lmao

    • 2
    • 1
  • Analyst 1 in Other
Jun 26, 2020

Pymetrics didn't matter in the process last year, it was just in a data collection phase (confirmed with an HR director) so that was all you my friend.

    • 4
  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Jun 26, 2020

Thanks for making my day!

Jun 26, 2020

how many apps u submitted?

  • Intern in IB - Ind
Jun 26, 2020

did some pymetrics for bx - i didn't understand 2 of the games (the ring one for example). I got shit feedback and realised that i can't do shit for 365 days... bye bye jpm, bx and any other simp bank that uses it

  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Jun 26, 2020

just use a different email address lmao

Jun 26, 2020

I'm in the same boat... took it last year to fuck around and see what it was about. Didn't realize I wouldn't be able to take it again. This pymetric thing is beyond stupid lol

    • 1
Jun 26, 2020

I found this University Careers blog post that tells you about Game-Based assessments. I'm pretty sure that they test for loads of different things to be honest. https://manunicareersblog.com/2020/06/17/game-base...

Jun 26, 2020

how long after we finish pymetrics should we hear back??

Jun 28, 2020

Bump

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Jun 26, 2020

When I recruited into London, pymetrics was already being used to filter out applicants. If this is any help, I got assessment centers at all the places I had to do pymetrics for and my most "Unique" traits were: focus, risk tolerance, and attention. Obviously, I have no insight into whether or not this was helpful at all, since HR will never fess up to rejecting someone on the basis of the pymetrics test.

    • 1
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Jun 27, 2020

:0 Those were mine too, but I feel like they aren't really that unique.

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Jun 27, 2020

unique just means that you scored above the average for the general population. look at the grading criteria on the website

Jun 26, 2020

The goal is to find applicants that match the performance of top performance within firms.

Imagine if some football club picked their top 5 players, and then made them take a bunch of different tests, measuring their reaction time, agility, and what not.

Now every time they get young hopeful players that want to try - before they even get a chance to show what they can on the field, they make them take the exact same tests - and compare their results against the top players.

If there's a very positive correlation, you're good to go. If not, you're declined.

That's the gist of how those tests work.

    • 2
Jun 26, 2020

And it's not nearly as predictive as even that analogy would suggest. With athletes, you can measure a lot of performance attributes on a bad --> good scale. Speed, strength, etc. such as at a combine. Pymetrics outputs stuff on an incomprehensible scale.

That's by design, by the way. From Hyatt's website, direct from Pymetrics ("confidential"): "The aggregate view (e.g. fit score & recruiter report) is what is significant, not understanding individual/specific traits."

In other words, don't question how the sausage is made, just hire who has the top scores.

https://about.hyatt.com/content/dam/HyattStories/risehy/HowTo-Interpret-Results.pdf

    • 1
Jun 26, 2020

So basically they're trying to make their own NFL combine. Which is fine, if they give it very little weight like the NFL teams do. Or they can be like Al Davis and think the combine is everything and lose 70-80% of games every season.

    • 2
Jun 26, 2020

Meh this industry is weird asf, they want diversity but still recruit according to fit or according to how well you can emulate current JPM workers.
I might not have a PhD in psychology, but this recipe doesn't look like it's gonna make them bake a good diversity cake...

Array

    • 3
Jun 26, 2020

best comment here hahahahaha. was thinking the same thing

    • 1
Jun 26, 2020

Said the same thing earlier before seeing your comment. Glad to know I wasn't alone in seeing that irony. "Don't think different, just look different".

    • 2
  • Prospect in 
Jun 26, 2020

.

Jun 26, 2020

The entire concept of pymetrics depresses me. It is phrenology for recruiters trying to assess people on who they are instead of what they've done. The latter is much, much more predictive of future success. Don't tell me who you are, show me who you are through your actions!

Direct from Pymetrics: "This model is used to identify who has the cognitive & emotional profile to be successful in the role (this is not measured on skills or experience)." Source

Do you know why we care about stuff like your SAT scores, GPA, and internship performance? It's not because these things are "biased." It's because real life work is much more similar to the SAT than a pymetrics test. The SAT is something you can prepare for, and in fact you should prepare rigorously for (studying a lot in advance, covers several different subjects which have a basis in the real world).

The pymetrics test is designed completely counter to this approach. In real life, you will have tough problems ahead, and time to prepare for them. Similar with school performance. GPA basically tells me if you did your homework and studied for tests. Guess what? It doesn't even matter what the tests were about, it matters that you consistently can work to do your homework. That's predictive of job success. Doing a careful resume and not making errors? That's predictive of job success, that is literally part of my job to make error-free documents.

I honestly think a lot of these AI startups are buzzword solutions (AI! ML!) in search of buzzword problems (diversity!). In reality, these AI problems probably discriminate much more than they let on. If you want to hire more black people or women at a company, reach out to more black people and women, and hire them. If you want to hire people who think differently, be brave and do that. Bring in outside hires. Have one team hire people who will work in another team. I don't know everything, but people are the answer and not the problem.

    • 5
  • Analyst 2 in IB - Ind
Jun 28, 2020

I feel as though in the future we're growing to adapt to situations so fast, past predictors such as GPA and SAT scores aren't as good at predicting future success. When weighing risk for instance- one could argue that the most risk adverse path is do study hard, attend the target, crush your exams and be that cookie cutter kid plucked to be in Goldman TMT. These types followed the playbook...what happens when there isn't one?

Jun 26, 2020

Is this going to be the finance equivalent of the draft combine?

    • 1
Jun 26, 2020

It's much worse than the combine, which itself is not predictive of athletic success.

Here are some examples of pymetrics games used at BCG. See if you could even guess which side of the spectrum employers would even want?

  • Balloon/pump game which tests risk tolerance by giving the candidate money for each pump but taking it away if the balloon bursts.
  • Emotional reading test in which the candidate is shown a face or faces and provided with a short excerpt to read. The candidate is asked what emotion is displayed.
  • Prioritization test in which a candidate is asked to choose between completing an easy task or a harder task for different payouts.
  • Transaction game where a candidate is allowed to give or take money from an avatar under specific conditions and then asked to judge the fairness of transactions.

I weep for today's generation who sits in front of a god damn computer to get assessed on their emotional intelligence and corporations don't even have the heart to put a human being in front of their resume for even 30 seconds.

Oh uhhh... you also get to see how you perform on the draft combine and it's not a black box. You also have real life recruiters who show up to high schools and colleges to physically watch players and talk to them. Finally you have statistics from actually playing the game of football at different levels, including college. Would anybody seriously recommend replacing college football stats (actual proven results on the field) with some kind of personality or physical test?

    • 5
Jun 26, 2020

i took it for BCG and got to final round interviews, this is coming from someone who failed the series 63 twice.. if that says anything about my testing aptitude

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

    • 2
Jun 26, 2020

Good comment here and above. I share your concern about this whole thing being a canary in the coal mine. Kind of amazing that experienced people (whoever backs these tests) are actually dumb enough to not see the folly here. Feels like the twilight zone.

    • 1
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Jun 27, 2020

1, 2, and 4 were on JPM too.

Jun 29, 2020

Because we all know all of the greatest players of all time totally crushed it in the combine right?

    • 1
Jun 26, 2020

It is fully data driven think of the movie Moneyball. Interviewing for trading firms make you do it on top of a mental math test.

Jun 26, 2020

That's the pymetrics pitch, but the reality is exactly the opposite.

"Moneyball" works because it uses statistics that are relevant for on-the-job performance: hits, on base percentage, etc. Things that the players have done that will predict future success. The previous way of baseball recruiting was to judge someone's looks and character, or something, the intangibles. That's bias, and bad bias.

Let's look at pymetrics vs. an HR person looking at a resume. It is the resume which contains the industry relevant statistics (work experience, standardized tests, GPA, competition awards, etc.). It is pymetrics which attempts to force the intangibles about a person into data points and introduces ridiculous confusion into the hiring process.

    • 1
Jun 27, 2020

I think the situation in Moneyball worked especially well because baseball offers a lot of data on actual job performance.

The attempts to apply that same concept to front-office white collar work seem incredibly gimmicky to me. What's the analyst equivalent of OPS and VORP? Certainly not personality scores.

    • 1
Jun 27, 2020

I think that these tests are complete rubbish. Whats even the point of putting in effort (and money) to be accepted to a target school when it, in the end, will pin down to an internet based test?

    • 1
Jun 27, 2020

did pretty well on this - pretty much did what the instructions said without much mistake - but in my report, it says a lot about qualities that don't fit into IB lmao

  • Analyst 1 in _none
Jun 28, 2020

Has anyone received pymetrics for FT?

Jun 28, 2020

Also wondering this - nothing here yet

Jun 28, 2020

Make your sentiments known to HR - especially for companies you would not join anyway. Tell them you won't be applying to any role which requires taking this pop-psychology sham.

  • Prospect in 
Jun 29, 2020

Can anybody else confirm? Is this for NYC?

Jun 29, 2020

Can confirm

    • 1
  • Prospect in IB - CB
Jun 29, 2020

Lmao they wont start reviewing apps until late July. This is from their campus recruiting team

Jun 29, 2020

They test for impulsiveness, attention span and ability to learn.

Jun 29, 2020

What's the best app webpage to practice on?

Jun 29, 2020

As an incoming JPM intern for this summer, I would say don't stress too much about it. Was told when networking that it was something they look at but your results will not make or break your candidacy necessarily. I believe they are testing out Pymetrics on potential interns to see if it's a tool they can use more broadly. I definitely didn't do my Pymetrics perfectly and I moved on.

    • 1
Jul 1, 2020

what did you get on your pymetrics?

Jul 3, 2020
Comment
Jun 30, 2020
Jul 1, 2020