Has anyone taken the courses and gotten the certification? I was told by a few senior people that taking this would look great on the resume and would help me lateral into an underwriting analyst role, since I am in an entirely different industry at the moment. Any thoughts or comments on this? Any other suggestions on what I can do to stand out as a lateral applicant?
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Good course. Can't hurt, go for it
Also check out uli courses
Courses are good but no one cares about the certification
Course def will give you something to talk about at interviews. Highly recommend it.
The "best" overall Real Estate Excel/Financial Modeling courses? REFM vs. CCIM vs. ?? (Originally Posted: 12/11/2015)
As the title states. Looking to make a career change and want to bolster my skills/resume a bit.
Thanks.
no reason for monkey shit, lol.
I am right there with you. Just transferred into PE RE heading up construction for their new developments as I came from that field running big commercial projects as a PM. It looks like CCIM and REFM are the best ones out there but I am sure CCIM is more 'renowned' as a cert. Lots of commercial brokers seem to get their CCIM so they 'know what they are talking about' as they deal with RE finance guys who are buying and selling assets..makes sense right. CCIM is also a big professional affiliation where you can drop $600/year for membership, but I think this is mostly for networking ops for brokers. So if you are not a broker I don't see the point really in being a 'member'. But their courses seem legit in terms of modeling/finance education. Each course is about $1300 it looks like. So, my recommendation for a down and dirty, do the $500 3 level REFM cert. For the money I don't think you can go wrong. I believe that will give you some modeling fundamentals and basics. Then you can asses CCIM if you want to spend more money. Oh and I believe ULI have some classes too but I have not looked at that in depth yet. Lastly, BIWS has some courses for a few hundred bucks. I believe BIWS have one Real Estate Finance specific course for a couple hundred bucks. No idea on quality though compared to REFM.
awesome man, thanks so much for the rundown.
Replied to your PM but for the general public, BIWS' real estate course was great. Currently has 3 case studies and information on both property level analysis and REITs. I haven't done REFM, but have heard the teaching style can be tough to follow along.
Thanks for info..Are you referring to the Level 3 "Real Estate Modeling" course for $347? That is the only RE focused course right?
Agreed on BIWS, REFM. Through in Kahr Real Estate course on excel modeling. CCIM, I wouldn't think they would be cutting edge on modeling (could be wrong). Also the ULI course's on excel modeling are usually just overpriced versions of REFM, Kahr, etc, .....
The CCIM course is more finance related. Solid rundown for those looking to get a firm grasp on IRR, NPV, FV and how it applies to real estate and debt/cash flow. You're not going to model properties as we know it.
I'm not a fan of REFM teaching style. He does have some great models though.
Is it suggested to still take these courses if you have a strong general understanding of IRR, NPV, FV and DCF'S? For instance if you have a model at your disposal that firms use and you understand the flows presented in the model(and general assumptions), what would these courses add to your knowledge base?
Prob not the CCIM course. I've been a commercial broker for 15yrs. No finance degree and so on...
I'm taking the CCIM Real Estate Financial Analysis is Excel right now. Why? I needed to get a stronger grasp of DCF/NPV and how it relates to IRR/MIRR and so on. The Excel skills necessary for this class are basically totally novice level. No shortcuts at all. There are some cool tools in there though. Just a few weeks ago I was creating an Amortization Schedule for a client. I wanted to have have a EOY balance for them years 1-5. I was going about it the wrong way. I was attempting to us LOOKUP when in fact PV can solve for this. As simple as this was, I was stoked to learn this in the CCIM class.
I have no desire to get a CCIM designation though.
Where all the courses out there so far seem to fall short is in teaching you how to model your standard value add deal. I have the REFM MF model/course. Yes, you're modeling a 30 unit value add deal with rehab, vacancy, lease up etc. The problem with Bruce and his teaching technique is that he falls in to the bracket of teachers that "know too much." I feel that in his mind since he has provided the various IF statements or IF+LOOKUPs that suddenly boom, you're gonna get it. That is not always the case. He literally says "ok now create this"...
I've ran in to several teachers and professors like this over the years. Now on the flip side, the WallStreetPrep guys are fantastic.
+1
the BIWS one looks decent but it looks like it's more geared towards the banking world vs. pure real estate development.
any thoughts there?
The CCIM core courses were not designed for financial modeling although CCIM does have their own internal-built DCF spreadsheets. Recommendation would be to take the CCIM core courses to comprehend the financial concept behind the DCF (NPV, IRR, +/- Leverage, Capital Accumulation, etc.). There is an Excel Financial Modeling course though offered through their Ward Center. The REFM is probably better geared toward the modeling aspect.
I can't speak to REFM, but I'm on my 4th CCIM course right now and wouldn't necessarily recommend it. I'm told the designation looks good (hopefully), but I've been disappointed in what I've learned. The "models" they teach are based on their own Excel based financial calculator so you don't really learn how to do DCFs from scratch. They just want you to use their excel templates, which is nice unless you want to learn the intricacies of modeling (which most brokers worth their salt probably want).
Off topic but don't know where to put it. I've spent a lot of time creating and looking through RE models, both development, acq, valuation, waterfalls, etc. I really wish starting out I could have paid someone 500 to give me a good model or help me build a basic one. Now that I'm on the other end of that agreement, does anyone know any avenues to have a side gig helping people or teaching them about RE modeling? Thoughts could be getting compensation for building a model or maybe tutoring someone on building their own. Strange question, but wanted to put it out there. I know there's a ton of generic courses but not many good ones specifically on RE. I've seen many of the top programs and honestly not many of them relate to the models I see on a regular basis. Thoughts?
I would pay you 500 to teach me how to do DCF from scratch. Very serious.
I took the REFM level three class and found it fairly worthless. It doesn't cost much though so maybe it worth it if you know nothing. BIWS is what I used to get my feet wet a few years ago and I found that immensely useful. Your time might be better spent just getting some OMs and trying it out for yourself etc. I'm not convinced either bolster your resume.
ULI does offer some courses as well. I think theyre the same as the Kahr courses.
If I can put my 2 cents in with Kahr, he can help people who are already at the intermediate level streamline with excel DCFs. His class didn't teach how to build a ground up model, it was a two day 6/8 hr class.
He is a also a great guy, very helpful, but his class just wasn't geared toward a beginner. I will tout the Staiger book again for learning by yourself. It will take you from no idea what i'm doing to just barely intermediate level. Or just enough to be dangerous is a better term.
I know this is an old post but to add my .02 - I took the first two ULI courses, and will probably take the third to complete the certification, but I wouldn't recommend them otherwise (I got two classes free while participating in the ULI Hines Competition).
I would just spend some time reading through PropertyMetrics blog to start (its really well done for a site trying to sell you on their software). CCIM is pretty popular in my market if you are seeking some letters to follow your name.
In my experience, I think people spend too much time trying to understand XIRR or DCF to a granular level that they overlook the calculation of the line items that really drive the cash flow. Not to say knowing about DCF etc isn't important, but I would also really stress knowing how to calculate loss to lease (both as a formula and an output), know the logic behind real estate taxes, which is a big nut in any deal...know what's driving your GPR, know about how different lease structures work for retail or office properties. At the end of the model, there are tons of line items, some more complicated than others, that are the driving forces of your CF. You can study NPV and discount rates all day long to accurately discount and PV your CFs, but if you're starting with incorrect CFs, you're going to be wrong no matter what. Bit of a ramble but hopefully the point is clear...
As far as how to do this... I couldn't get my hands on models until I got into the industry. Once that happened I saved every model I came across and really studied it in my downtime. You'll learn multiple ways to get to the same point, and find what works best for you.
what would everyone recommend for someone on the lending/debt side where equity splits aren't considered in the models?
A girl I know from school got REFM certified and she said that she used a lot of the things she learned in her interviews. Although she did not mention the certification actually "meaning" anything, but it basically just proves that you went through the course I guess. She also got a job offer at a highly regarded real estate firm as an analyst so I'm actually considering the course too.
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