Why the hell do people work in NYC/SF IBD?

xgozax's picture
Rank: Senior Gorilla | banana points 824

It makes absolutely no sense to me. I've heard a lot of people try to defend it, but it's simply indefensible.

100 hour weeks working at a BB making 150k (high end). 50% of income goes to Taxes, 30-40% is rent, 10% is food and 0-10% is savings.

If you're 28 years only and you only have $50K saved, there is a problem. If you have to go to business school at 28 years only and get into debt, just for a shot at making a living in your 30's, there is a problem.

You've sold 6 years of your life, and what the hell do you have to show for it?

If you put 6 years of 100 hr weeks into anything else, you would be massively successful to say the least.

So why the hell would you do IBD?

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Comments (116)

Feb 20, 2017

I am not sure why you are ranting as such, but I think you need to go get some help...

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Feb 27, 2017

He finally snapped out of the "teen IB delusion" after getting some real experience. Now he's going through a crises regretting all the sacrifices he made.

Absolute truths don't exist... celebrated opinions do.

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Feb 20, 2017

+1 SB, well said.

Feb 20, 2017

"Success is doing what you want to do, when you want, where you want, with whom you want, as much as you want."-Robbins

Live and let live. I understand you are trying to wrap your head around this, but there are so many reasons to counter what you said that I'm not even gonna start.

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Feb 20, 2017

Wrong place for the rant, bud.

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Feb 20, 2017

You're quoting the salary of an entry level analyst, which is typically a 2 year stint. They leave with a prestigious former employer to put on their CV, a solid professional network, quite a bit of money in the bank (as you aptly pointed out, they don't have time to spend it), highly trained and long working hours no longer phase them. It gets more attention than it probably should on this site but there's a reason it does. Very few entry level roles provide that much opportunity.

You also made a good point, which is that taking that work ethic to another employer would put you on the fast track. There was a paper measuring the outcome of people who attended top universities and people who got in but turned them down (or had the same profile to get in) and over time both groups were essentially just as successful as the other. The same can probably be said for those who get into investment banking and those just as capable of getting there...but I'd still take Stanford and starting at Goldman for the leg up it provides.

Feb 20, 2017
xgozax:

100 hour weeks working at a BB making 150k (high end). 50% of income goes to Taxes, 30-40% is rent, 10% is food and 0-10% is savings.

This. In the end what really matters is what you saves (and the returns from the investments you make with your savings). Everything else is subjective. Still, you seem to give too little importance from the experience of working in these cities and the "prestige" people give to it.

"Never believe in anything until it has been officially denied"

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Mar 5, 2017

"Prestige" is the only thing keeping these analysts sane nowadays, isn't it?

Let me hear you say, this shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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Feb 20, 2017

PRESTIGE NEGRO

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

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Feb 20, 2017

I'm 24 with 150k saved and will have close to 500k saved by the time I'm 28 if I stay in IBD... So don't know where your 50k is coming from.

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Mar 5, 2017

Do you live in NY/SF?

Let me hear you say, this shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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Feb 20, 2017

$100k saved by 25 isn't outrageous if you save and spend appropriately. I worked in NYC IB and anecdotally this is doable.

Feb 25, 2017
808s and Heartbreak:

$100k saved by 25 isn't outrageous if you save and spend appropriately. I worked in NYC IB and anecdotally this is doable.

Not much to add, just that $100k by 24-25 is VERY doable unless you're paying for a gf/wife or similar.

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Feb 25, 2017
TheFamousTrader:

808s and Heartbreak:$100k saved by 25 isn't outrageous if you save and spend appropriately. I worked in NYC IB and anecdotally this is doable.

Not much to add, just that $100k by 24-25 is VERY doable unless you're paying for a gf/wife or similar.

....and, may I add, if you are indeed paying for a gf/wife or similar you're going to be WAY under your savings goals....

Dating / marrying a hot chick who works in PR / marketing / fashion and has some lofty lifestyle expectations is great fun but definitely a drain on the wallet. Take it from me, I married one.....

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Feb 25, 2017

You sound sad that you did marry one lol

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Feb 25, 2017

lol

Feb 25, 2017

Had to laugh as I married one as well. Can strongly second both points, lots of fun but also a drain on the wallet

Now if you'll excuse me we've got plans to go buy a new expensive comforter because our current one has gotten "boring." :)

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Mar 12, 2017

You won this thread.

Pack it up bois.

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Feb 20, 2017

Give us the alternative O' almighty benevolent savior

Feb 20, 2017
xgozax:

It makes absolutely no sense to me. I've heard a lot of people try to defend it, but it's simply indefensible.

It's almost like people have different opinions, priorities, interests, etc...

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Feb 20, 2017

Let me tell you a story.

In my first job (a failing family biz doing translations for personal documents and those little instruction leaflets for chinese crap), there was this girl who had a salary of BRL 1,200 (around USD400) like the rest of us. She was always telling how she had massive debt problems. How she would get into fights at home to get loans from parents and relatives (not to pay down debt, but to go to shows and buy booze). She was not a totally incompetent worker, however, and even got invited to work at other larger companies where she could, in theory, make more money and improve her quality of life a little bit.

She never bothered, though.

When asked why, she would shrug and say "well, I'm satisfied. I live with my boyfriend, I don't earn enough to pay income tax and I can drink and go to shows. Why would I waste my time with something more demanding?"

Stupid, right? Well, in her opinion it was a good deal. She saw advantages in that life style.

People who decide to go into IBD in NY/SF" made that choice too - It's a good deal for them. Maybe some will see along the way that this is not for them. Others will enjoy and go on ( I won't even go into things like compensation, prestige etc). It's what they like to do. Why do people become lawyers in those big-name firms? Why do people become doctors? They also work like dogs and many die, as you classified, as "followers".

I bet they enjoyed what they did, though. This is what matters IMO.

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Feb 20, 2017

Definitely chose the wrong forum for your argument, but I'll bite as I am not in the industry myself.

Look at the job requisitions at any company for the high-end positions. (Corp Strat, Biz Dev, Finance leads, etc.). When I say high-end I mean roles that have high level decision making. What you do has a relatively strong role in shaping the company.

Under desired experience, 2 industries will be listed. Consulting and Investment Banking. It is an "easy" path if you decide that one day you want to manage people and influence the company you work for. The jobs give great experience in terms of learning what drives a company forward (and backwards).

Additionally, the notion that 1 year in Consulting / IB is equal to somewhere between 2-4 years of industry is very true. Join a company straight out of school in industry in an entry level role, and see how long it will take you at minimum to get in to these top roles. Minimum is probably ~6 years. You can join and be an asset to the company after 2 years in Consulting / IB.

Your 6 years at 100 hours statement is trash unless you are an AMAZING salesperson.

TL, DR; Yes the hours are shit, but the pay balances out when you look at your worth in the marketplace to industry.

...

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Feb 20, 2017

Don't feed the commmunity college troll guys

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Feb 20, 2017

No one would do this job if you worked 100 hours a week for 150k your entire life. By the time you're a VP, you're working 60 hours a week and making $400-$600k...and that's if you stay in banking...many go to even more lucrative (and similar or better hour) jobs on the buyside.

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Best Response
Feb 20, 2017

you sound like someone who tried for ibd and missed and now are rationalizing why you didn't want to do it in the first place.

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Feb 25, 2017

Most likely explanation^

Feb 26, 2017

ding ding ding I believe we have a winner.

Feb 20, 2017

Because they're hoping to make it big later. Same reason people work for free singing songs in LA bars, hoping somebody will notice them and they get a record deal.

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Feb 25, 2017

As if life is all about being 28 with half a mill in the bank.

People live and work in NYC because it's fucking amazing. If you like sitting at home and are married at 22, sure, NYC is gonna suck. If you're young, enjoy going out and meeting people, you'll find a lot missing outside of major cities.

Feb 25, 2017

Disagree. Only sucks if your significant other sucks. Got married at 23, 28 now and my wife and my favorite days are sitting at a bar together crushing IPAs and doing all the same shit that everyone who isn't married does. The only difference is I have a 100% chance of getting laid when I get home...

Feb 25, 2017

You don't need a wife to get laid when you get home. Lift hard, dress well, surround yourself w cool people, and have a little game. Most important of all, don't talk about FINANCE(S). Girls are easy especially in 2017.

Work hard, work clean, & most of all do not give up.

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Feb 25, 2017

Ahhhh...see I was always leaving out the lifting hard, dressing well, and having game part. Now that I know what to do, I'm on it.

Now if my wife would stop moving my velcro shoes and velour sweatsuits, maybe I could make it to my Zumba class on time.

Feb 25, 2017

If you have kids I can see why you'd want to be married so young. However, it sounds like you don't because who would take care of them while you're both crushing IPAs on a Friday night.

Hopefully your wife was a huge part of your success, made sacrifices for you, and does well for herself. Marriage isn't a fairy tale, it's kind of like another job, and compromise yourself so early at 23 when the future's bright ... AND maybe you do have 100% chance of getting laid, but you also have a chance of losing 50% of your assets + alimony, etc. I'm going to stop here.

Work hard, work clean, & most of all do not give up.

Mar 2, 2017

i'm saving that for my 40s

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Feb 25, 2017

I'm with you AndyLouis

Work hard, work clean, & most of all do not give up.

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Feb 25, 2017

I'll just summon @aspiringchimp here to continue from the previous thread. As they say in Mortal Kombat, FINISH HIM!!

I would unload all the wso credits I have, to throw MS into this community college trashcan, were it not for the MS limits. Fucking hoity-toity PE peasant in Fucksville.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

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Feb 25, 2017

Wait, he wants to be a consultant, after ripping on consultants previously?
LOL I'M ROTFL!!!

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

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Feb 25, 2017

What happened to working in "one of the most active PE funds in the world"? Certainly that would have equivalent value for his creds, as MBB or BB IBD?
Unless obviously the guy wrote that story to get some appraisal or for self-aggrandizement. Which is pathetic.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

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Feb 25, 2017

Wait. I thought he got a job at the PE fund. Seemed like it.
EDIT:- Checked again. Yeah, it was an intern offer. Too bad. Wasn't there an option to convert it?
Maybe the kid (@xgozax) ought to move to London and go for an MFin at a top uni.. With experience like his, I'm sure he would kill it at some BB / MBB / PE without difficulty.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

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Feb 25, 2017

This just got brutal.

Feb 25, 2017

even though you're obviously a kid looking through a very narrow lens, you're making the right points.

it's a very hard trade. i went to Goldman Sachs because it was the absolute best job i could get out of school, and it set me up for the rest of my life.

if you think PE is exit opportunities you're missing the point: when you have these skills and experience, you can walk into any job in business, years ahead of where you might starting straight out of school.

i also wanted to start in a job that would best prepare me for any role in business, and I still believe IB is that.

But, if you're looking for some get rich quick. or you think that it inevitably leads you to your yacht and 6 homes you/re just as delusional as this kid who hasn't figured out that life is about relative trades.

you may think ib is a bad trade, so why not go get a "regular" job where you can just work away in boring mundanity for hte next 40 years?

or you could figure out what you truly love and just do it every day, and stop wasting our time whining about what jobs you think suck

Feb 20, 2017

Lol I don't think you've ever been so stern with someone on this site.

...

Feb 25, 2017

I would say also one of the few times Carlyle wasn't mentioned with Goldman Sachs. Solid points throughout.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

Feb 27, 2017

Lol. Geoff blades is the worst

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Mar 2, 2017

lol why do you say that?

WSO's COO (Chief Operating Orangutan) | My Linkedin

Feb 27, 2017

Vague self congratulatory platitudes

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Feb 25, 2017
AndyLouis:

lol why do you say that?

Goldman Sachs, Carlyle, GS, Carlyle, Wall street advisor, my book, Goldman

Not to

mention

writing

like

this

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

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Mar 27, 2017

Hahaha on point

Mar 5, 2017

Regarding Exit ops that aren't PE: out of Genuine Curiosity, how helpful is IBD as a springboard for a career in central banking?

Feb 25, 2017

Some people will be happy picking grapes in a field for low pay for the rest of their lives. Some people just like to make a fuck load of money, live in an incredible city and experience all that life has to offer.

Feb 20, 2017

Hate to be that guy, but making a fuck load of money isn't the same as getting to enjoy a fuck load of money. It doesn't do much for your quality of life it's all going to things like NYC/SV cost of living, a wife that has a taste for $20,000 dresses, and the like. A lot of the guys at regional banking shops in tier 2 cities have a lot more cash in the bank, live in a nice house while the NYC guys live in an apartment, and can afford to splurge on luxury expenses that people in the larger cities can't due to cost of living.

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Feb 28, 2017

You don't get it. Living in NYC in itself is a huge luxury. I bet my girlfriend with a taste for an expensive dress is a lot hotter than your girlfriend you met at a dad bar in some midwestern suburb, who has a taste for hot pockets and KFC. No one in NYC is envious of people who live in the suburbs brah.

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Feb 28, 2017

Oh, and you do get it? Based on your post history you're still in college looking for internships.

"...not that I'm at the age where I'll be applying for internships yet..."

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/is-big-4-ris...

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Feb 28, 2017

Well I found an internship, and it's in NY, and I chose to work in NY because I am willing to pay more to be in the center of the universe. I also get that some people might like the suburbs, but for some reason it's always the dudes working for boutiques in the suburbs who feel the need to rationalize their situation and no one from NYC or SF ever comes on here just to shit on people who didn't make it to the city.

Feb 28, 2017

Maybe the Big Apple is the center of your universe, but for a lot of people it isn't. The equivalent earnings to keep the same life style that $125,000 will get you in NYC is ~$70,000 in Atlanta.

Personally, I find it hard to rationalize living in NYC when I can have a much better lifestyle in the Southeast while making more money when the costs of living are taken out of the equation. Different strokes for different folks.

Feb 28, 2017

Yeah for sure, I was at my friends place in Charlotte last week and was amazed at how much space he had in the apartment. Also nice that he's guaranteed a reasonably priced parking spot. He's also from South Carolina and hates Manhattan with a passion, I get it.

Mar 5, 2017

Agreed with this point - "but for some reason it's always the dudes working for boutiques in the suburbs who feel the need to rationalize their situation and no one from NYC or SF ever comes on here just to shit on people who didn't make it to the city."

Feb 28, 2017

Are you speaking out of your ass or from actual experience?

Mar 1, 2017

Much rather prefer that kind of girl.

Mar 3, 2017

I have my own apartment in NYC and pay under $1,000/mo and make six figures. It's a nice place, too, and I'm never really there anyway. Want to save more, go to Brooklyn, Queens, or NJ. People need to stop parroting this "cost of living" shit like it's some kind of mantra. If you're spending a lot of money in a discretionary sense that's your own damn fault. If you don't make 40x-45x times the monthly rent in terms of annual salary, landlords won't rent to you anyway. The thing that people should bitch about are the taxes.

Btw, not having to own a car in NYC/SF saves a shit ton of money. I almost think of it as free rent. Whereas in LA or some spread out midwestern city it's almost a requirement to have one.

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Mar 5, 2017

That last point about the car is essential. Think about the thousands of dollars you'd spend each year in terms of having a car: payments (owning or leasing), gas, maintenance, parking, insurance, and traffic tickets/accidents. Most of these costs only increase based on the more you have to drive. I think people overlook how much money you save if you don't own a car.

Feb 25, 2017

Chill out fam

Feb 25, 2017

Do you even bank bro? I bet you're one of those kids that cannot get into IBD so all you do is rant about how bad it is after you get a job as a branch manager in god knows where Utah

Feb 25, 2017

I think despite the negative feedback you are getting on this thread (mostly from people who never seemed to actually have worked in the industry) I will say you are touching on exactly the right points (I know as I did my analyst stint, so college kids can stfup on here).

You absolutely slave away like a bitch for very long hours and a shit lifestyle. A lot of people gunning for these spots will rationalize the shitty lifestyle no matter what. But if you are smart then there is a high opportunity cost to slaving for some MD who dgaf about you, and you should absolutely question whether the payoff is worth it.

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Feb 25, 2017

base salary. people work for the bonuses

Feb 25, 2017

Good reason to live in NYC Manhattan:

NYC
SF is trash though.

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Feb 25, 2017
5 million:

Good reason to live in NYC Manhattan:

SF is trash though.

Need explanation, why so?

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

Feb 20, 2017

If you've ever lived there you wouldn't have to ask.

Ever heard of a "Silicon Valley 10"?

Feb 20, 2017

Or you want a more cathartic, long winded rant:

https://whysfreallyisthatbad.com/part-i-geeks/

Feb 25, 2017

I meant the skewed sex ratio in NYC

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

Mar 1, 2017

Speaking from personal experience, it has to do with the amount of industries centered there that attract lots of young women. There's really only one industry that attracts real men, and that's finance. Obviously, there's a scatter of other industries men work in, but you get the gist.

Edit: @AndyLouis if this was flagged, my bad. that button got so big and so red, I don't think I could avoid it if I logged off

Feb 25, 2017

Dunno what's messing up the comment system @AndyLouis. Not everything's a flag

But why isn't the same noticed in London?

EDIT:- @iBankedUp , that message keeps coming up by default for some reason

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

Mar 1, 2017

Never been to London, so I don't really know what it's like. But in NYC, women can come with no real plan and just become a nanny or the hot girl at the front of the house in some bar or fashion store. I don't know how smart it is for them to do this, but I'm saying that I've met a good number of women that had goals in mind but were hustling to make it. A lot of them even seemed to have a connection there and just lived through the connection doing jobs like dog walking or, nanny, or some type of personal assistant until they could get on their feet. That's interesting and I don't know if London has a similar atmosphere.

EDIT: ok, just wanted to make sure he knew.

Feb 25, 2017

I guess it's just that the sex ratio which would have tilted towards women is balanced out by the Pakistani and Polish dudes. The stricter Visa rules in the US stop that :P.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2042000/No...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sin...
Shouldn't be quoting Dailymail, but fuck it, it's the only place I found an article on the topic.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

Mar 1, 2017

I guess that makes sense. When you think about it, it depends on what part of NYC you're talking about too. It's easier for women to find housing options within the inner city (Manhattan), than it is for men. And I know there's a huge mix of races in NYC that usually can be found in Queens or Brooklyn. Queens is filled with racial minorities like West Indians and Asians.

Feb 25, 2017

Yep. I've seen my fair share of chicks in West London, especially Chelsea and SoHo.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

Feb 25, 2017

SF is trash? Lol, sure kid.

Mar 1, 2017

NYC is the best place for an active life in your early 20s in my opinion. No car needed to hit up 20 different spots in a day or night, surplus of women, no identity requirements because everyone is vastly different with diverse backgrounds, great and unique places to explore all the time, international dining, late hours, close and intimate proximity with everything needed, 24 hour accessible transportation, plenty of people sharing your similar place in life no matter what it is, etc.

Having money in your pocket to access it when you can and want is great. If you know where to look, you can find housing solutions for less than $1k a month, or if you have the money you can live in the bustling inner city for more. It's a great place to spend what free time you have in the ways that best suit your own lifestyle preferences. Small towns come with much more simplicity but also a lot less tailoring to certain and specific interests.

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Feb 25, 2017

Hit it on the nail, especially with the surplus of women. NYC is great for anybody, but especially young people. Some sacrifices may be taken to live there but if done well a few years in NYC will do you well and separate you, its where everything is done at the highest level IMO.

Feb 28, 2017

You're right bro, Investment Bankers are all poor. That's why you see so many journalists and accountants driving their Audi's through East Hampton while Investment Bankers have to commute to their jobs from the Bronx every day.

Feb 20, 2017

Typical ride for a junior IB seems to be subway.

Feb 28, 2017

Damn you're right bro. I'll never afford a Ferrari and Mansion my very first year doing IB in NYC. God I was so wrong, I wish I worked in the shitty suburbs of New Mexico so I could really be a bigtime player.

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Feb 20, 2017

Hey look, another intern who thinks he's hot shit!

Nobody's talking about bumfuck middle of nowhere. I'm talking about people in places like Atlanta, Charlotte, Denver...places where you can still find some decently expensive clubs, good looking women (esp. Atlanta....Atlanta strip clubs blow anything in NYC out of the water), expensive food, and high priced fashion stores.

Talk to some folks that live IN those kinds of cities and work in IB/S&T. Their top line compensation is less but they all have a considerably higher standard of living.

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Feb 28, 2017

Hahaha dude I'm just saying that I like NYC man. I'm not trying to insinuate that you are somehow lesser for living in Atlanta. I mean a lot of people might assume that's what I meant but I didn't. Only a few people think that people from Atlanta are lesser, and I'm not one of them. Maybe on this board a lot of people probably think that you are lesser because you're from Atlanta but I'm the least prejudice guy. I actually just read a fake news story in the paper the other day that said "people from Atlanta are lesser" but I just brushed it off because although we pretty much all agree here that you are lesser because you work in Atlanta, I'll still give you the benefit of the doubt.

Feb 20, 2017

You DO realize I don't actually live in Atlanta right? I'm just familiar with the area due to family that do live there....and on an engineer's salary (similar to an IB analyst with mid-bucket bonus) lives in a 2 bedroom apartment, their own car, a wine cellar, and time for hobbies on the sidee.

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Feb 28, 2017

Wine cellars are tight. Your family sounds tight. Congrats.

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Mar 3, 2017

MBB consultant in Texas. Can confirm: have 2600 sq foot new construction within 20 minutes of downtown for $500k, restaurants/bars/parks everywhere, 25 minutes to airport, make the same $150k base that an NYC associate makes. Zero student debt.

It kicks ass.

Mar 5, 2017

I lived in Denver. Skiing in the morning downtown clubs at night.

You can actually be a regular professional and live well in Denver too...

Feb 25, 2017

I saved 60K in my first year in IBD in NYC, and I sure as hell didn't work 100 hours a week on average.

Feb 25, 2017

I think this point has been hit on a couple times here but it is all about perspective, and perspective is different for everyone.

When I was a junior in college I interned in a BO role for a large insurance company and was given a spiffy "Business Analyst" title. One day my manager asked me to job shadow another analyst (who was actually a 60 year old guy who had essentially been doing the same task for 20 years). I sat down at his desk and essentially he pressed a button on Microsoft Access and a report would compile for about an hour while we just sat there. That was more of less the extent of the job. For him he was close to retirement, left at 4pm every day, and lived in a low cost area. But for me I realized I could never do a job like that and in fact it honestly feels like some of the 15 hour days in IB go by faster than the 7 hour ones during that internship.

Regarding NY, it's not for everyone, it is for me though. It was always my dream to live there after growing up in a rural town of 6K people and finally go the opportunity to do so after undergrad. After a year I moved to Chicago to chase the IB dream and after 3 years elected to move back to NYC. I've mentioned it in another thread but the cost of living would make anyone question the decision (3x rent I paid in Chi, 15K more in taxes alone, etc.). That said there is no other city like NYC. The variety of people, opportunities, etc. is unmatched in an city - you get a little taste of it in Chicago but it's not the same. There's just something about the trash in the streets, the hustle, and the diversity of people that makes it amazing. Again it's not for everyone, I realized it was for me.

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Feb 25, 2017

"Title: Intern"

/thread

Feb 25, 2017

Ok, anyone care to explain the skewed sex ratio in NYC?

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

Mar 3, 2017

Very simple:

1) Many women from all over the world moving to NY to prospect rich men. NY is a great place to be a woman. You have culture, nightlife, fashion. All you need to do is pay rent and food. For men it's a different story. You are expected to be the breadwinner and be able to support a household. You have to slave away at banking or a similar vocation and be able to do it not just for an analyst stint -- but on a 40 year horizon

2) US education systems are grossly favoring women. They treat men as defective women. Hence you see low education manual jobs for men in the boroughs and college jobs for women in manhattan

3) NYC industries favor women. Law, medicine, fashion, and ads. There are literally no careers for alpha males outside of finance. Around the country you can be a CEO, engineer, sports athlete, all sorts of things. But in new york. It must be finance.

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Mar 3, 2017

Not sure what the hell kind of lawyers and doctors you're meeting: very much a fit for douchebags I mean alphas. models and bottles bro.

Also: engineering is overwhelmingly male. Yes colleges are more than 50% women (I'm guessing it's hovering around 60% now), but saying "they treat men as defective women" is asinine.

Feb 20, 2017

Yeah, was going to say. I've met some biglaw types while in the military. Comparing your average finance bro's level of douchebaggery with these guys is like comparing your little sister's skiing skills with Lindsey Vonn.

saying "they treat men as defective women" is asinine.

That's more true of primary education. I have an ex who left teaching the public school system(went to a private all boys school) because of...well, she almost the exact same phrase that he did and said "boys are treated like defective girls".

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Mar 3, 2017

I'm not disputing there are lots of douches in biglaw. What I am arguing is that most of male lawyers will have a preference to work outside NYC after their first few years. Again contributing to the gender imbalance.

Keep in mind even BigLaw doesn't pay enough to raise kids in an upperclass lifestyle in manhattan. Most Biglaw partners won't break $500k ever in their career. Those that do are usually the more senior partners at firms and even then they max out around $1-2M compared to their finance buddies who can do $5-20M. Keep in mind this is the cream of the crop, ivy league, go getters. Not your average guy.

BigLaw is brutal. The hours are long and attrition is every bit as bad or worse than banking. The only other option -- become General Counsel at a F-100 firm. Here you can make big bucks, but it certainly won't be in NYC. Say hello to Cincinnati or Seattle!

Again why many (of course not all) of the successful MALE lawyers choose to work in other markets in disproportion to the women

Feb 25, 2017

I will give my opinion -

I agree with, what I believe to be, your underlying statement. That is, IBD is not "the only/best career path". There are a plethora of alternative career paths that can similarly lead to being wealthy, if that is your ultimate goal. That being said, you are being naive if you think IBD is not one of the top career paths in finance. From a financial perspective you are correct, first year analysts traditionally do not have that much money at the end of the year. However they begin to save significantly more and more each year quickly surpassing any low cost of living high entry level salary position. It also provides phenomenal exit opportunities from B-school to other careers. I did not go the IBD route, but by % I am in the top 3% for people in my age group.

A few other small notes, by 28 anyone who was IBD 2 years -> B School -> IBD 2 Years, would have way more than 50K saved up. Also your breakout of the income is inaccurate.

You should choose the career path that provides you with what you want from a salary and work/life perspective. Don't hate on people who decide to go into IBD, there are more than a handful of reasons why IBD is an excellent choice in career.

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Feb 25, 2017

I agree if you have the talent to start the next facebook, google etc why in the world would you do such a thing. Not everyone has that kind of talent though so slogging away in IBD doing a lot of mundane tasks is what a lot of people will need to do to become wealthy fairly young if they save etc.

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Feb 28, 2017

.

Feb 26, 2017

Disclaimer: I do work in IB but not in NYC / SF. In a small southern city (<1mm metro population, low COL) so i can have some perspective.

You're math is pretty wild. I'll give you the 50% as a proxy for what taxes would be like living in manhattan, but at 30% of 150k that'd be rent of $3,750 per month, which literally no one is paying as a first year analyst. I'd say most people are paying <$2,500 and that's prob on the high side.

But even at your assumptions (50% tax / 30% rent / 10% food / 10% savings, you're still netting 15k per year in savings. If you operate under the assumption that you will remain making 150k per year for five years of banking (23-28), you'll be at $75k. As others have mentioned, depending on lifestyle choices, it is pretty realistic for someone in IB to have ~$500k in the bank by 28.

Which brings me to my main point: The reason people do IB has been covered, but a reason they want to do it New York or San Francisco is the availability of exit ops within the city. There is a distinct advantage to be recruiting for positions that are just down the street vs. half way across the country (something i am experiencing firsthand right now). The ability to take the morning off for an interview vs. flying somewhere, or grabbing coffee with someone vs. a phone call is invaluable and something I wish I would have realized when i took my current role.

Aside from the fact that NYC is my favorite city in the US, and somewhere i have always wanted to live, just from a professional standpoint, the long-term benefits of being in a major financial hub far outweigh the additional costs of living there.

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Feb 26, 2017

IB -> PE, IB -> HF, IB -> MD

First year at Apollo is $400k, first year at Bain is $375k. Very worth two years in IB.

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Feb 27, 2017

40% of 150k for rent? That's around 5k / month, seems a bit steep don't you think? I don't know many IB analysts in NYC (even at top BBs) that pay more than 2k per month. Assuming 24k annual rent expense that's around 15% of the income, not 40%... lol (meaning that based on your numbers, that's already an uptick of 25% in savings all things equal, which is close to 40k / year).

Feb 28, 2017

Lmao, I read that 40% number and thought the same exact thing. $2,000/month will get you a pretty decent studio, maybe even 1BR in Manhattan.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, BBs have food delivered in-office for their employees (from what an intern friend of mine at BAML said), so I think the 10% of $150,000 on food is a little much too.

Mar 3, 2017

The OP is obviously full of shit and has probably never even been to NYC. There's a rule in place where landlords won't rent to you unless your yearly salary is at least 40x-45x your monthly rent, which means you're limited to a ceiling of 26%-30% of your salary going toward rent. You can also rent a room at $500-$600/mo if you're open to housemates.

With no need for a car, NYC is actually cheaper than bumblefuck places unless you're a person that needs to spend $$$ for whatever reason.

Feb 28, 2017

I think @Sil said it best: "I am sorry that your most recent interview did not go well."

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Mar 1, 2017

To each their own I guess. Do you, but don't let jealousy fuel your emotions against a position you seem to want to be in just because you might have not gotten it. Get back out there and remember, there are always opportunities beyond IB to make good coin.

Mar 1, 2017

50% income taxes? As a 24 year NY resident that's news to me...

Mar 3, 2017
  1. 100 hours / week (high end likely 70-80 week on average - likely working those hours for 2-3 years)
  2. 150k high end (? - you mention a band of 6 years - high end for that band would be 180 - 500+ / yr)
  3. 50% income to taxes (just, no); 30-40% to rent ($2-$2.5k/mo is less than 30% rule of thumb even if you're mid buck first year taking home $125); 0-10% savings (you should save your bonus - for a nation where the avg. national HH income is ~$55k, you're killing it)
  4. $50k of savings at 28 (not a great situation - either have a spending issue, as you're eluding to, or assuming you graduated with significant student debt you've saved yourself decades of interest, secured yourself a 6-8% return on paying off that debt earlier, and have set yourself up for an explosive 3rd decade)
  5. Sold six years of your life and have nothing to show for it (...other than a massively inflated earnings potential, a financial and legal education that allows you to run circles around people years older than you, a flexibility to pivot in just about any direction from a career perspective, an ability to intelligently invest your money so that when you inevitably build up that golden nest egg in the next 10-15 years you can successfully invest it in private/public investments that yield you a return such that you can reliably count on future cash flows to supplement or fund your lifestyle with a higher degree of confidence than your counterparts who sold tech software and did marketing for an F1000, set yourself up for a career where you can reasonably expect to be able to afford supporting a family where you can vacation internationally 1-2 times / year, go on ski vacation and send the kids to private school without having to take out a second mortgage on your house)

Maybe if you majored in computer science and economics, have been a serial entrepreneur since you were 12, have a trust fund to access and fund your current aspirations and a family business to fall back on, then you can argue that its a waste of time and you'd be wildly successful doing something else with your life for 6 years, but the 20-somethings forging ahead in tech or other endeavors aren't working 40 hours a week, taking rogue Mondays off and chilling with 350k in their bank by 28. They're busting their balls just as hard, if not harder, than the kids slugging it through the lower rungs of IBD.

Success rewards skill and there are few better places to curate such a versatile, applicable and sought-after skill set than in IBD.

Good luck though. For some people, money and the things it lets you afford don't matter much.

P.S. forgot to mention the future value of forming relationships with the leagues of incredibly intelligent, ambitions people you'll be meeting along the way

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Mar 3, 2017

It's funny, 150K a year for 100 hours a week? LMAO that's about $28 an hour before taxes. May as well get a job paying you 65K base with bonus. Hell, MANY are making more than IB working half the hours.

Feb 25, 2017

someone didnt get a bid.

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