WSJ article on males in college

Good read for anti-AA crowd. Maybe that's why so many are salty

https://www.wsj.com/articles/college-university-f…

some tidbits 
- lot more girls in colleges across economic status and race 

  • higher application and graduation rate

  • in some places boys have a higher chance of getting in

  • boys spending more time playing video games, watching porn, etc. vs actually focusing on school

  • some also suffer from anti-intellectualism / lack of hope

  • girls do better job closing out applications and paying attention 

  • in UCLA where there is no preference allowed, girls literally dominate

  • higher represented in on campus leadership role

There is some admission that boys need help, but not the right cause yet. Maybe in 10-20 years there will be affirmative action for white males after all 

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Comments (296)

Sep 6, 2021 - 2:39pm

I am not able to read the article but this is just confirming what many people already know.   Females are ahead of guys in school at many levels.  The difference in law school is 55% female and 45% male.  It is not like this in finance, partly because females, more often than not , do not choose to go into finance.   I am not sure about the porn thing but videos games are a significant distractor for guys.  Another issue that affects guys more than girls are concentration issues related to ADD, ADHD and similar issues. 

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Funniest
Sep 6, 2021 - 3:32pm

financeabc

I am not able to read the article but this is just confirming what many people already know.   Females are ahead of guys in school at many levels.  The difference in law school is 55% female and 45% male.  It is not like this in finance, partly because females, more often than not , do not choose to go into finance.   I am not sure about the porn thing but videos games are a significant distractor for guys.  Another issue that affects guys more than girls are concentration issues related to ADD, ADHD and similar issues. 

It is like this in law school because men tend towards spatial and mathematical thinking, women excel in verbal.  Law school is for those who failed to complete an economically viable major, hence many women go into it while the men STEM it up for four years.  Of course, law exams are blindly graded, there is no participation awarded, and each year we will have a "why are there so few women on law reviews" article in all the professional publications despite it being far more meritocratic than white collar hiring and academic admissions. 

- Former Lawyer 

Sep 6, 2021 - 5:03pm

T30Graduate

financeabc

I am not able to read the article but this is just confirming what many people already know.   Females are ahead of guys in school at many levels.  The difference in law school is 55% female and 45% male.  It is not like this in finance, partly because females, more often than not , do not choose to go into finance.   I am not sure about the porn thing but videos games are a significant distractor for guys.  Another issue that affects guys more than girls are concentration issues related to ADD, ADHD and similar issues. 

- expand -

It is like this in law school because men tend towards spatial and mathematical thinking, women excel in verbal.  Law school is for those who failed to complete an economically viable major, hence many women go into it while the men STEM it up for four years.  Of course, law exams are blindly graded, there is no participation awarded, and each year we will have a "why are there so few women on law reviews" article in all the professional publications despite it being far more meritocratic than white collar hiring and academic admissions. 

- Former Lawyer 

or may be some people prefer law.  

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  • Intern in IB - Gen
Sep 6, 2021 - 2:53pm

I study computer science and maybe this is in some way true for college overall but it does not apply whatsoever for anything engineering.

Sep 6, 2021 - 3:37pm

I study computer science and maybe this is in some way true for college overall but it does not apply whatsoever for anything engineering.

There is a built-in incentive in engineering and CS that resists a wholesale destruction of standards.  If you eliminate them then lives are lost with structural failures and essential communication methods online degraded.  It is serious business and you see what infrastructure failure looks like due to political meddling in the Third World.  If English majors write fourth-rate Hamilton imitations rather than read Milton or Leo Strauss, then all that is wasted is time and standards of taste among the "edumacated"

Sep 7, 2021 - 6:15am

Disagree.  Even though those courses are 80-100% male, the girls who are enrolled are more organized and punctual with homeworks and stuff.  Tests are about even.  At least that's what I noticed working as a grader in my engineering courses

Sep 7, 2021 - 11:54am

This statement is the most disturbing thing I have seen you make on this entire website.  Mostly because it is a clear indication that you do not understand how statistics and distributions work.

  • Intern in IB - Gen
Sep 7, 2021 - 12:27pm

assume an 80% male class and the same average test score between males and females
 

So what you're saying is that for every 4 males that can do well on the tests, there exists 1 female who can do equally well.

  • VP in IB-M&A
Sep 7, 2021 - 4:24pm

Females who choose to go into engineering/STEM are smarter than the graveyards of logic that are drawn to soft fields like English, art, marketing. You're comparing TI-89s to glitter crayon drawings of calculators and saying they are the same thing 

Sep 8, 2021 - 3:11am

Simply because... there are more males and the variability is higher. Trading is like 90% males as well. Female traders however are upper echelon. Or were. Now that you libs are forcing women into it, we get some who aren't actually interested, just pushed, and they suck.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

Sep 6, 2021 - 3:05pm

This is not groundbreaking info, but surprising it's getting more mainstream attention so quickly.  IMO, Men are more volatile by nature (which was good as the willingness to be violent and aggressive and go into the unknown used to really serve our species in general very well), but as society gets more advanced, that volatility seems to become less and less useful to the point where it's actually a detriment IMO.  Now that men in our country aren't the defacto dominant demographic (rightfully so if you believe in any sort of meritocracy), it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.  Personally, I think our society will have to find a way to deal with more violent extremism / n*zi / lone wolf terrorist types until this particular demographic learns how to deal with the future. 

Controversial
Sep 6, 2021 - 3:41pm

randomguy97

This is not groundbreaking info, but surprising it's getting more mainstream attention so quickly.  IMO, Men are more volatile by nature (which was good as the willingness to be violent and aggressive and go into the unknown used to really serve our species in general very well), but as society gets more advanced, that volatility seems to become less and less useful to the point where it's actually a detriment IMO.  Now that men in our country aren't the defacto dominant demographic (rightfully so if you believe in any sort of meritocracy), it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.  Personally, I think our society will have to find a way to deal with more violent extremism / n*zi / lone wolf terrorist types until this particular demographic learns how to deal with the future. 

Turn off the news. Would you be scared of lone wolf or some ghetto guy you see every ten blocks on urban streets with his hand on his crotch where his gun may be as he yells to himself?  I've seen plenty of the latter, I haven't seen the former since I graduated American middle school and those freaks vandalizing the bathroom moved on  

The US will be less safe in the next thirty years, your working life.  Man up and learn to defend yourself rather than saying your "volatility" is a negative.  Channel it. 

  • Managing Director in PE - Other
Sep 7, 2021 - 12:44am

Every comment you make on this site is racist. You are obv a regular on white supremacist sites based on some of the language and comments you have made. This site is not for you. 

Sep 7, 2021 - 1:10pm

Dude where do you live that you're seeing "ghetto guys" with guns in their pants?  I live in nyc and have literally never seen this.  Homeless people using drugs? yes... The only guns I see on a regular basis (ever, really) are held by police.

Array
Sep 7, 2021 - 12:00pm

No, this world view is dependent on a failure to understand how distributions work.  People who think that outcasting tail populations is a viable strategy are deluded morons who likely think that doing things like canceling people over nonsenne thigns is also a great idae.

Most Helpful
  • Associate 2 in RE - Res
Sep 6, 2021 - 3:05pm

The difference is that, unlike other underperforming groups, boys get higher standardized test scores. Slightly higher on average, and substantially higher at the top end.

The disparities you list are real and they're symptoms of more serious problems in modern societies. The environment that kids are put in in developed countries is deeply unnatural, and it's one that boys are generally less suited for than girls. Kids are told to go to school for 17+ years. In school they have to sit still in chairs for most of the day, do what (mostly female) teachers tell them to do, toe the ideological line, and do huge amounts of pointless busywork.

Jumping through these hoops is the way to success, but only because society has set things up that way. Education is mostly a signaling mechanism- an imperfect proxy for abilities than could be measured much more quickly and cheaply. There's no fundamental reason that the path to a productive and successful life has to look the way it does.

The good news is that a lot of smart people, especially in Silicon Valley, have started to figure out that the Education Industrial Complex is mostly bullshit. It's a recent development in human history, and there's no guarantee that it will be sustained indefinitely. Hopefully it won't be.

  • VP in IB - Cov
Sep 6, 2021 - 3:27pm

it's one that boys are generally less suited for than girls. Kids are told to go to school for 17+ years. In school they have to sit still in chairs for most of the day, do what (mostly female) teachers tell them to do, toe the ideological line, and do huge amounts of pointless busywork.

other than mostly what females tell them to - you just described early years of banking - a historically male dominated job

Sep 6, 2021 - 3:47pm

You are correct, a degree is an exorbitant signaling mechanism and an inaccurate one. Griggs is the court case that did away with cognitive assessments in almost all employment processes. Why did they do that? Because certain groups don't do too hot on them. Now you can threaten universities to accept the low scorers, call it "credential dilution"

Sep 11, 2021 - 7:43am

I really believe a pre-employment test could be given that doesn't test cognitive capabilities. One given at the entry level that focuses on basic computer skills, basic writing and reading skills, and basic math skills--the stuff that an entry level office employee would need. Make a singular exam used by many companies that has free prep materials available. Pass or fail. No scores.

The courts are, ironically, much more right-wing today than 40 years ago. This would be a good opportunity to create a fair test to allow people to skip college and for the exam to win in the courts.

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Sep 7, 2021 - 12:10am

This right here. Modern K-12 education simply isn't built for boys, on average. Girls have a much better temperament for sitting still and following directions for 6-8hrs per day as a 6-16yos, and the fact the elementary and even high school teacher sex ratios are MASSIVELY skewed female doesn't help. 

This is what i was thinking when reading that article. To back up your point, think about sports in grade school. How would it affect boys if schools got rid of football, basketball, baseball, and other big sports? Maybe the AP class guys wouldn't care too much, but all those jocks in the normal classes would suddenly have less incentive to come to school. Why is participation in sports tied to grades? It's to get those easily distracted boys to put just enough effort to get a certain grade and not make the school district look like total shit in terms of stats.

As im typing this, I think it comes down to which environments girls and guys are either drawn to or just vibe with better. K-12 may be competitive, but it's not zero sum. K-12 was more about getting along with (or not being completely hated by) the shit ton of people around you. By doing that, you could get answers to hw from other people, info on tests in another class ahead of time, and just get intel on everything school-related pretty much.

In corporate, of course you gotta network and people still do trade a lot of info, but suddenly everyone's more wary of each other and guarded (to varying degrees depending on the industry), and suddenly this is where I think a chunk of women decide that a competitive cubicle job isn't for them since it isn't the social atmosphere they had in grade school and college where things were way less zero sum. Then for guys, once they hit corporate they may not like a cutthroat environment, but I guess the testosterone kicks in and they just, on average, dig into their career and ride it out longer, often because they have to unless they want their wife to leave them lol.

If none of this makes sense, i blame the gallon of whiskey i downed 15 mins ago...

Sep 7, 2021 - 1:05am

The problem here is that while you say that a lot of smart people in Silicon Valley are now trying to fix this, these are the same brainwashed alt-left people who contributed to this issue in the first place, especially on the 'toeing the ideological line' idea you mention. Whatever system they devise will incorporate the rotten elements of aggressive groupthink & ultimately solve nothing 

Sep 6, 2021 - 3:08pm

Imagine thinking anything useful, worthwhile, or productive goes on in the humanities or non-economics/non-psychometric social sciences. STEM is still dominated by autistic males, and it is the only part of academia not in a gutter.  Anyone who thrives in such an environment is effectively androgynous at best. 
 

Your "yasss kween boss bitch" attitude is self-defeating. The guys you think you are criticizing and attacking are way less upset about this arrangement than the unmarried future spinsters waiting for Chad to marry them. 

Sep 6, 2021 - 3:18pm

To be fair, STEM is the easiest group of disciplines to have clear lines in the sand on whether or not students grasp the material since, especially at the undergrad level, very little is subjective.  Also, IDK what it was, but all of my STEM professors (I was a physics major so I took mostly STEM coursework), seemed to take great pride in challenging us and pushing us, and failing a significant portion of the class (more than one course started with the professor guessing how many of us would not be passing the class).  I never got that vibe in any humanities course, although I never took anything besides a gened humanities class  so it could be different at higher levels.  

Sep 6, 2021 - 3:27pm

randomguy97

To be fair, STEM is the easiest group of disciplines to have clear lines in the sand on whether or not students grasp the material since, especially at the undergrad level, very little is subjective.  Also, IDK what it was, but all of my STEM professors (I was a physics major so I took mostly STEM coursework), seemed to take great pride in challenging us and pushing us, and failing a significant portion of the class (more than one course started with the professor guessing how many of us would not be passing the class).  I never got that vibe in any humanities course, although I never took anything besides a gened humanities class  so it could be different at higher levels.  

It is not different at higher levels, as someone who majored in a more "rigorous" humanities discipline and excelled in it at a reputable university.  
 

STEM lends itself to an ease of differentiating students, although the humanities can come close if they so desired; I suspect STEM will have a lowering of standards, if less dramatic.  Grammar, syntax, and basic English vocabulary are no longer taught.  Instead we have empty jargon in pursuit of useless, boring, and muddy topics.  Too much has been made of critical theory infiltrating the humanities.  Instead, unqualified students who could not study STEM were forced into those majors and the professors strong armed into lowering standards.  Now it is full of basket cases who deserve the imposter syndrome they complain of.  

Sep 7, 2021 - 1:11am

100%. The self-defeating issue can be applied across race / sexuality / etc issues as well...this aggressive attempt of 'inclusiveness' only divides us further as we now recognize all of these differences, and slowing economic growth makes it easy to pin the blame on such factors. The impact of all this all will make itself very apparent over the next 2-3 decades though I bet it'll take at least a decade for this issue to even begin to go mainstream. By then it'll be too late and the far left autists will be pointing the finger at anyone else. They'll turn the U.S. into Castro's Cuba or Venezuela & destroy meritocracy yet will still never take the blame. God I hope this country goes to shit and they suffer for it, I'm happy to move if needed 

Though I will definitely add, most females I know are chill people vs. raging feminist morons. The latter is only 10-20% but is super vocal so seems like most females are like this when this is not the case

Sep 6, 2021 - 3:30pm

For blocked by paywall

Men are abandoning higher education in such numbers that they now trail female college students by record levels.

At the close of the 2020-21 academic year, women made up 59.5% of college students, an all-time high, and men 40.5%, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of enrollment data from the National Student Clearinghouse, a nonprofit research group. U.S. colleges and universities had 1.5 million fewer students compared with five years ago, and men accounted for 71% of the decline, the Journal analysis found.

This education gap, which holds at both two- and four-year colleges, has been slowly widening for 40 years. The divergence increases at graduation: After six years of college, 65% of women in the U.S. who started a four-year university in 2012 received diplomas by 2018 compared with 59% of men during the same period, according to the U.S. Department of Education.

In the next few years, two women will earn a college degree for every man, if the trend continues, said Douglas Shapiro, executive director of the research center at the National Student Clearinghouse.

No reversal is in sight. Women increased their lead over men in college applications for the 2021-22 school year-3,805,978 to 2,815,810-by nearly a percentage point compared with the previous academic year, according to Common Application, a nonprofit that transmits applications to more than 900 schools. Women make up 49% of the college-age population in the U.S., according to the Census Bureau.

"Men are falling behind remarkably fast," said Thomas Mortenson, a senior scholar at the Pell Institute for the Study of Opportunity in Higher Education, which aims to improve educational opportunities for low-income, first-generation and disabled college students.

American colleges, which are embroiled in debates over racial and gender equality, and working on ways to reduce sexual assault and harassment of women on campus, have yet to reach a consensus on what might slow the retreat of men from higher education. Some schools are quietly trying programs to enroll more men, but there is scant campus support for spending resources to boost male attendance and retention.

The gender enrollment disparity among nonprofit colleges is widest at private four-year schools, where the proportion of women during the 2020-21 school year grew to an average of 61%, a record high, Clearinghouse data show. Some of the schools extend offers to a higher percentage of male applicants, trying to get a closer balance of men and women.

"Is there a thumb on the scale for boys? Absolutely," said Jennifer Delahunty, a college enrollment consultant who previously led the admissions offices at Kenyon College in Gambier, Ohio, and Lewis & Clark College in Portland, Ore. "The question is, is that right or wrong?"

Ms. Delahunty said this kind of tacit affirmative action for boys has become "higher education's dirty little secret," practiced but not publicly acknowledged by many private universities where the gender balance has gone off-kilter.

"It's unfortunate that we're not giving this issue air and sun so that we can start to address it," she said.

At Baylor University, where the undergraduate student body is 60% female, the admission rate for men last year was 7 percentage points higher than for women. Every student has to meet Baylor's admission standards to earn admission, said Jessica King Gereghty, the school's assistant vice president of enrollment strategy and innovation. Classes, however, are shaped to balance several variables, including gender, she said.

Ms. Gereghty said she found that girls more closely attended to their college applications than boys, for instance making sure transcripts are delivered. Baylor created a "males and moms communication campaign" a few years ago to keep high-school boys on track, she said.
Among the messages to mothers in the campaign, Ms. Gereghty said: " 'At the dinner table tonight, mom, we need you to talk about getting your high school transcripts in.' "

Race and gender can't be considered in admission decisions at California's public universities. The proportion of male undergraduates at UCLA fell to 41% in the fall semester of 2020 from 45% in fall 2013. Over the same period, undergraduate enrollment expanded by nearly 3,000 students. Of those spots, nine out of 10 went to women.

"We do not see male applicants being less competitive than female applicants," UCLA Vice Provost Youlonda Copeland-Morgan said, but fewer men apply.

The college gender gap cuts across race, geography and economic background. For the most part, white men-once the predominant group on American campuses-no longer hold a statistical edge in enrollment rates, said Mr. Mortenson, of the Pell Institute. Enrollment rates for poor and working-class white men are lower than those of young Black, Latino and Asian men from the same economic backgrounds, according to an analysis of census data by the Pell Institute for the Journal.
No plan

Over the course of their working lives, American college graduates earn more than a million dollars beyond those with only a high-school diploma, and a university diploma is required for many jobs as well as most professions, technical work and positions of influence.

Yet skyrocketing education costs have made college more risky today than for past generations, potentially saddling graduates in lower-paying careers-as well as those who drop out-with student loans they can't repay.

Social science researchers cite distractions and obstacles to education that weigh more on boys and young men, including videogames, pornography, increased fatherlessness and cases of overdiagnosis of boyhood restlessness and related medications.

Men in interviews around the U.S. said they quit school or didn't enroll because they didn't see enough value in a college degree for all the effort and expense required to earn one. Many said they wanted to make money after high school.

Daniel Briles, 18 years old, graduated in June from Hastings High School in Hastings, Minn. He decided against college during his senior year, despite earning a 3.5 grade-point average and winning a $2,500 college scholarship from a local veterans organization
He took a landscaping job and takes home about $500 a week. Mr. Briles, a musician, also earns some income from creating and selling music through streaming services, he said, and invests in cryptocurrencies. His parents both attended college, and they hope he, too, will eventually apply. So far, they haven't pressured him, he said.

"If I was going to be a doctor or a lawyer, then obviously those people need a formal education. But there are definitely ways to get around it now," Mr. Briles said. "There are opportunities that weren't taught in school that could be a lot more promising than getting a degree."

Many young men who dropped out of college said they worried about their future but nonetheless quit school with no plan in mind. "I would say I feel hazy," said 23-year-old Jay Wells, who quit Defiance College in Ohio after a semester. He lives with his mother and delivers pallets of soda for Coca-Cola Co. in Toledo for $20 an hour.

"I'm sort of waiting for a light to come on so I figure out what to do next," he said.

Jack Bartholomew, 19, started his freshman year at Bowling Green State University during the pandemic, taking his classes online. During the first weeks, he said, he was confused by the course material and grew frustrated. Finally, he quit. "I don't know what I'm going to do," he said. "I just feel lost."

Mr. Bartholomew's parents and one older sister have college degrees. He was a solid student in high school and was interested in studying graphic design. Yet while working online from his second-floor bedroom, his introductory courses seemed pointless for how much he was paying, he said.

He works 40 hours a week, at $15.50 an hour, packing boxes at an Amazon warehouse not far from his house in Perrysburg, Ohio. It isn't a long-term job, Mr. Bartholomew said, and he doesn't know what to do next.

"College seems like, to me at least, the only logical path you can take in America," he said. But for now, he said, it is too big a struggle, financially and academically.
Tomorrow's leaders

Men dominate top positions in industry, finance, politics and entertainment. They also hold a majority of tenured faculty positions and run most U.S. college campuses. Yet female college students are running laps around their male counterparts.

The University of Vermont is typical. The school president is a man and so are nearly two-thirds of the campus trustees. Women made up about 80% of honors graduates last year in the colleges of arts and sciences.

One student from nearly every high school in Vermont is nominated for a significant scholarship at the campus every year. Most of them are girls, said Jay Jacobs, the university's provost for enrollment management. It isn't by design. "We want more men in our pipeline," Dr. Jacobs said, but boys graduate from high school and enroll in college at lower rates than girls, both in Vermont and nationwide.
The young men who enroll lag behind. Among University of Vermont undergraduates, about 55% of male students graduate in four years compared with 70% of women. "I see a lot of guys that are here for four years to drink beer, smoke weed, hang out and get a degree," said Luke Weiss, a civil engineering student and fraternity president of Pi Kappa Alpha at the campus.

Female students in the U.S. benefit from a support system established decades ago, spanning a period when women struggled to gain a foothold on college campuses. There are more than 500 women's centers at schools nationwide. Most centers host clubs and organizations that work to help female students succeed.

Young women appear eager to take leadership roles, making up 59% of student body presidents in the 2019-20 academic year and 74% of student body vice presidents, according to W.H. "Butch" Oxendine, Jr., executive director of the American Student Government Association.

"Across all types of institutions, particularly two-year institutions, but also extending into public and private four-year institutions, women dominate student government executive boards," Mr. Oxendine said.

Many young men are hobbled by a lack of guidance, a strain of anti-intellectualism and a growing belief that college degrees don't pay off, said Ed Grocholski, a senior vice president at Junior Achievement USA, which works with about five million students every year to teach about career paths, financial literacy and entrepreneurship.

"What I see is there is a kind of hope deficit," Mr. Grocholski said.

Young men get little help, in part, because schools are focused on encouraging historically underrepresented students. Jerlando Jackson, department chair, Education Leadership and Policy Analysis, at the University of Wisconsin's School of Education, said few campuses have been willing to spend limited funds on male underachievement that would also benefit white men, risking criticism for assisting those who have historically held the biggest educational advantages.
"As a country, we don't have the tools yet to help white men who find themselves needing help," Dr. Jackson said. "To be in a time when there are groups of white men that are falling through the cracks, it's hard."
Keith E. Smith, a mental-health counselor and men's outreach coordinator at the University of Vermont, said that when he started working at the school in 2006 he found that men were much more likely to face consequences for the trouble they caused under the influence of drugs and alcohol.
In 2008, Mr. Smith proposed a men's center to help male students succeed. The proposal drew criticism from women who asked, "Why would you give more resources to the most privileged group on campus," he said.
Funding wasn't appropriated, he said, and the center was never built.
The University of Oregon has one of the few college men's centers, which offers help for mental and physical health. "Men don't need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps," said Kerry Frazee, director of prevention services, who works with the center. "No one can do it all by themselves."

Sep 6, 2021 - 11:31pm

"U.S. colleges and universities had 1.5 million fewer students compared with five years ago"

This is actually really good news.The fewer people who attend these hollowed-out institutions the better.

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Sep 6, 2021 - 11:33pm

Memberberries

"U.S. colleges and universities had 1.5 million fewer students compared with five years ago"

This is actually really good news.The fewer people who attend these hollowed-out institutions the better.

Now allow student loan discharge with the stipulation that all shortfalls come from university endowment and sale of physical plant. Let the taxpayer off the hook and let the colleges sink. 

Sep 9, 2021 - 1:49pm

Yeah that's for sure. The way you correct something isn't going from one extreme end of the pendulum to the other, you go from one extreme end to the middle. Sure it'll take longer to 'normalize' this way but far more sustainable vs. now where the you've created yet another problem

Progressives will never stop - in the name of 'equity' they'll effectively destroy our society as imbalances are never really corrected but rather shifted. At this point, I care maybe 20% of what I used to about all of it. Let them destroy the country. You, I and other top 5-10% of pop should focus on our own knowledge / wealth accumulation & if you plan on having kids passing it on to them. With that we / our kids will always have the option value of moving to other countries depending on what looks attractive at the time given the value we bring. It's not much different than how so many immigrants came to the U.S. from other mediocre countries in the past 50 years, you go where the opportunity is - it's the most natural thing.

I guarantee that many folks in the top 1% are running a similar calculus. Number of people renouncing citizenships and moving to other countries continues to increase. At this point in time, the U.S. is still the best country to live in (risk-adjusted) and likely will be in 2030. But 2050 & beyond (and definitely by 2100) it's totally fair game for this to change  

Sep 6, 2021 - 3:43pm

Huh, maybe decades of masculinity=bad propaganda had a negative effect on boys growing up. Could've never seen that coming.

But if we megaphone them harder when they're in elementary school, maybe they'll learn to sit down twelve hours a day and do what they are told like automatons as their estrogen levels skyrocket with a poisoned food supply owned by multinational Chinese firms 

Sep 7, 2021 - 10:11am

estrogen levels skyrocket with a poisoned food supply owned by multinational Chinese firms 

Man, people love coming up with all of these conspiracy theories when the answer is just much simpler: humans like salty, fatty, sugary foods and so market demand led to a supply chain/retail environment (CPG/McDonald's) that gave them lots of it at a low price.  There's a reason why McDonald's/Chipotle/Wendy's>>Sweetgreen/Chop't/Just Salad and it's not "multinational Chinese firms".  

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  • Research Associate in AM - Equities
Sep 7, 2021 - 1:13am

"Yeah let's beat the masculinity out of them & tell them the only way to be good citizens is to become cucks!" Yeah that'll end well

Sep 6, 2021 - 8:19pm

You jerk off 20 seconds per day????

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Sep 6, 2021 - 5:22pm

I had high hopes for this topic.  Oh well.

  • Associate 2 in IB-M&A
Sep 6, 2021 - 6:10pm

I had high hopes for you offering some decent insight here since you actually have a teenage son, but of course you have nothing interesting to add and your son thinks you're a loser, so not surprised. Probably raised him to be an effeminate neurotic Jewish striver and he resents you for it (though I'm sure you couldn't help it), oh well.

Sep 6, 2021 - 5:46pm

Cool, good for them. And good for us for earning more in the workplace. I'm not going to sit and whine about the education system being systemically sexist because I'm not a loser like that. I'm in college right now and anyone can do well if they put in the effort.

Sep 6, 2021 - 7:14pm

iercurenc

Cool, good for them. And good for us for earning more in the workplace. I'm not going to sit and whine about the education system being systemically sexist because I'm not a loser like that. I'm in college right now and anyone can do well if they put in the effort.

You clearly don't lift and were not part of a recognizably American community. Otherwise you wouldn't accept getting sodomized by the system you have to join to make money and you wouldn't put down those who chafe under it.   

Sep 6, 2021 - 7:36pm

T30Graduate

iercurenc

Cool, good for them. And good for us for earning more in the workplace. I'm not going to sit and whine about the education system being systemically sexist because I'm not a loser like that. I'm in college right now and anyone can do well if they put in the effort.

You clearly don't lift and were not part of a recognizably American community. Otherwise you wouldn't accept getting sodomized by the system you have to join to make money and you wouldn't put down those who chafe under it.   

How does your comment address what he said in any way? 

Sep 6, 2021 - 8:42pm

Look man, I agree. The education system is slightly more generous to girls. I hated how much the female teachers treated the girls like teacher's pets and the boys like the spawn of Satan. I got disciplined countless times for doing relatively harmless shit. But honestly, I was still able to become a great student through good old hard work. When I said "losers" complain about systemic sexism, I was mocking how women complain about the wage gap and female "underrepresentation" in lucrative fields.

  • Intern in IB-M&A
Sep 6, 2021 - 6:24pm

I mean, half the posts here are people crying about "growing up sucks" or crying about a girl. That should say enough about the average "man" these days lmao. I used to be ashamed of growing up in a poverty blue collar background but I'm p thankful tbh. 

  • Intern in IB-M&A
Sep 6, 2021 - 7:27pm

Being a man is not being emotionally affected by such things. Honestly Drumpfy, you are very lucky to live in the most peaceful time in human history, because you sound so weak that I doubt you'd be able to survive any sort of real life conflict.

Sep 6, 2021 - 7:16pm

Drumpfy

Pay gap children
I am not surprised by this.  Women and men are pretty much on equal footing until pregnancies and kids.

Gubmint mandated quotas and payouts can only lift the boat so much. They'll ramp it Up to "rectify" this soon enough. 

Sep 6, 2021 - 7:56pm

This is interesting, do you have a source for how / where / when the data was collected ?  Also, this could be used to paint many different angles for the quality of dads of this sample of people.  Are they disconnected and distant from their kids or are they diligent in making enough to provide for their kids? 

  • Intern in IB - Gen
Sep 6, 2021 - 11:27pm

So this chart says is women are only impacted during their pregnancy and a few months after then all else is equal? What about women with multiple kids are they not impacted a second time around? Third? Such mysterious chart. Do better Drumpfy

  • Intern in IB-M&A
Sep 6, 2021 - 7:41pm

Same issue happening in China and they are now openly discriminating against female candidates in higher ed admissions (much lower test scores requirepments for men vs women for the same program). yall need to stop watching porn and playing video games.

Sep 6, 2021 - 7:57pm

Same issue happening in China and they are now openly discriminating against female candidates in higher ed admissions (men can compete with women with significantly lower test scores). yall need to stop watching porn and playing video games.

Link?  Last time I checked they are removing effeminate men from TV so that their youth can restore the vigor of a vital nation.  It will pay dividends when our leadership is fat like Milley.

  • Intern in IB-M&A
Sep 6, 2021 - 8:17pm

"That is how Kale, who scored 614 on her tests in June, discovered that boys had been accepted to the international finance program from her province with scores as low as 609, while 628 was the lowest score for girls who were accepted."

https://www.latimes.com/world/la-xpm-2013-feb-20-la-fg-china-female-stu…

The article is old but the situation did not improve and become even more pronounced (heard anecdotal stories in advanced degrees that are a lot worse given the process is pretty opaque). Specific traits of higher ed success (dedicated concentration for long hours, repeated process of reading and writing) are better designed for women than men, especially now that men are drawn to way more sources of distraction (again porns and videogames) at a younger age. Either the way that the higher ed curriculum is delivered needs to change or younger men (talking about the average flyover middle class, not your coastal elites) have to start practicing self-discipline.

Sep 6, 2021 - 7:45pm

Blue collar professions pay a ton. Anyone in construction, landscaping, plumbing, etc. can make a killing. You don't need college to go into these careers. 

Array

Sep 6, 2021 - 7:58pm

JoeCamel

Blue collar professions pay a ton. Anyone in construction, landscaping, plumbing, etc. can make a killing. You don't need college to go into these careers. 

I recommend this for those who are not cut out for STEM and do not think they can handle the finance/consulting/tech grind.  The hours can become tolerable fast and there is ample room for promotion and entrepreneurship.  Most "rich" Americans do not make it in an office job collecting a paycheck or bonus.

Sep 6, 2021 - 8:05pm

Dude, stop d*ck riding STEM so much.  Like yeah STEM is great, but so is everything else.  I wouldn't trust Ernest Hemingway or Aldous Huxley to design a bridge or manage my money, but their ability to capture the essence of humanity, gracefully analyze the potential societal woes of modern society, and distinguish us from an ant colony aren't something that can be valued with dollars or measured with a ruler, and the humanities need to be respected for what they bring to the table.  

Sep 6, 2021 - 8:11pm

T30Graduate

JoeCamel

Blue collar professions pay a ton. Anyone in construction, landscaping, plumbing, etc. can make a killing. You don't need college to go into these careers. 

I recommend this for those who are not cut out for STEM and do not think they can handle the finance/consulting/tech grind.  The hours can become tolerable fast and there is ample room for promotion and entrepreneurship.  Most "rich" Americans do not make it in an office job collecting a paycheck or bonus.

Dude, your view of the world is very narrow.  Not everyone wants to work in finance, consulting or tech.  Not everyone wants to make millions of dollars in finance and help no one except themselves and their company.  This is going to be a surprise for you but some people actually want to help others while earning money at the same time.    

  • 1
Sep 6, 2021 - 9:42pm

In what world do blue collar workers have tolerable hours?  All the ones where my dad works have tons of mandatory overtime, and they're in a union.  Non-union workers have even more grueling hours.  Not to mention all the work is physical labor and not just typing.

Sep 7, 2021 - 12:08am

Bro blue collar professions are literally back breaking work, not fun at all and you make fucking peanuts if you have to support a family. It's once you move up to running your own business you actually make $$$ but as a worker, unless you're in a union you're fucked.

Sep 9, 2021 - 8:53am

I always say its a minority of blue collar workers who do well compared to the majority of college educated workers. These blue collar workers tend to be heavily protected by unions clustered within certain industries that are impossibly hard to break into and yes the physical toll and breakdown is omni present.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
Sep 6, 2021 - 9:57pm

As a dude, I think one more thing to put on the list is sexual desires. Men are horny AF at a young age, and when you watch porn you naturally waste time and energy, yet the urge is so strong you need to get that jeez out of yourself...

Sep 6, 2021 - 10:23pm

I just wanted to add that I think a significant factor in the poor results of us guys has to do with the insane expectations put on a lot of us. For guys, the job you have and the money you make literally define who you are and how you'll be treated by the rest of society. Whereas for a lot of women, education is something they pursue because they enjoy a particular subject or just want to advance their learning

Sep 6, 2021 - 10:42pm

ConfusedGuru

I just wanted to add that I think a significant factor in the poor results of us guys has to do with the insane expectations put on a lot of us. For guys, the job you have and the money you make literally define who you are and how you'll be treated by the rest of society. Whereas for a lot of women, education is something they pursue because they enjoy a particular subject or just want to advance their learning

I agree that there is more pressure on guys but don't you think that is becoming less of an issue now that most women work.

Sep 7, 2021 - 1:29am

All of this is very well deserved by the far left (AOC / Sanders / etc). They have effectively destroyed any sense of meritocracy to score political points. Eventually when white men withdraw from society (and perhaps men more broadly), this will only end up hurting the broader society even further:

a) Less high-earning men = less mates for women. Hope you have fun making $200k while settling for a guy making $30k bagging groceries. Your other alternative is to end up a lonely spinster decrying men, enjoy!

b) Less high-earning men = less tax revenues & less economic productivity...which means higher taxes for a shrinking piece of the pie. Again, will hurt everyone including retards like AOC & her constituents as means less funding for federal projects. Higher tax rates means less companies will want to come to U.S. or be started in the U.S. Excessive taxes will also discourage people from seeking graduate school...why take another 3-4yrs of debt if I'm not going to see the gains & get taxed to oblivion? I could keep going forever on the problems this will cause (many 2nd order effects) but you get the point 

c) Angry swaths of men without job prospects (or prospects for marriage) = a far more turbulent society. Historically slowing economic growth + significant social issues eventually compounds into war / revolution. At the very least will make Congress's makeup / the presidency much more volatile and the country will eventually be unable to govern itself

Very much reminds me of Atlas Shrugged. Rand certainly had some extreme ideas (some of which are probably either wrong or the costs outweighs the benefits) but the one thing she 100% nailed was the power of incentives. When there aren't good incentives and meritocracy is crushed, people will flee / withdraw from society. Those with the means will flee elsewhere (i.e. Singapore) and those without will withdraw & give up like the young men the article is referencing. Both will crumble society. I've loved this country for many years but seeing the changes over the past decade I'm just about giving up on its future -- if this is what the people want, far be it from me to try & withhold. The country should go to shit and serve as a case study of what happens when you empower autistic alt left morons who understand virtually nothing about economics / incentives / psychology & over-value 'equality' over everything else

  • Associate 2 in IB-M&A
Sep 7, 2021 - 3:15am

The withdrawal of white men from society writ large will just lead to a lowering of standards across the board and a decrease in competence. Our institutions are already on life support and becoming completely incompetent and mistrusted, but just imagine when swarms of white guys opt the fuck out entirely. No ones gonna be there to build the house to code, get the truck cross country on time and keep the lights on without never ending brownouts and "grid saving periods." Brazil or South Africa is the destination of America over the next 100yrs because Boomers, wakes and women literally can't help but destroy what made America prosperous, and men have now been raised to take any and all fight out of them.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Sep 9, 2021 - 5:45pm

Fewer high earning men = more high earning women. The percentage of men in analyst classes is lower than it was 25 years ago. It doesn't mean that there are fewer analysts, it just means there are more women. 

  • Incoming Analyst in IB - Cov
Sep 7, 2021 - 2:26am

For anyone who doesn't subscribe:
 

Men are abandoning higher education in such numbers that they now trail female college students by record levels.

At the close of the 2020-21 academic year, women made up 59.5% of college students, an all-time high, and men 40.5%, according to enrollment data from the National Student Clearinghouse, a nonprofit research group. U.S. colleges and universities had 1.5 million fewer students compared with five years ago, and men accounted for 71% of the decline.

This education gap, which holds at both two- and four-year colleges, has been slowly widening for 40 years. The divergence increases at graduation: After six years of college, 65% of women in the U.S. who started a four-year university in 2012 received diplomas by 2018 compared with 59% of men during the same period, according to the U.S. Department of Education.

In the next few years, two women will earn a college degree for every man, if the trend continues, said Douglas Shapiro, executive director of the research center at the National Student Clearinghouse.

No reversal is in sight. Women increased their lead over men in college applications for the 2021-22 school year-3,805,978 to 2,815,810-by nearly a percentage point compared with the previous academic year, according to Common Application, a nonprofit that transmits applications to more than 900 schools. Women make up 49% of the college-age population in the U.S., according to the Census Bureau.

"Men are falling behind remarkably fast," said Thomas Mortenson, a senior scholar at the Pell Institute for the Study of Opportunity in Higher Education, which aims to improve educational opportunities for low-income, first-generation and disabled college students.

American colleges, which are embroiled in debates over racial and gender equality, and working on ways to reduce sexual assault and harassment of women on campus, have yet to reach a consensus on what might slow the retreat of men from higher education. Some schools are quietly trying programs to enroll more men, but there is scant campus support for spending resources to boost male attendance and retention.

The gender enrollment disparity among nonprofit colleges is widest at private four-year schools, where the proportion of women during the 2020-21 school year grew to an average of 61%, a record high, Clearinghouse data show. Some of the schools extend offers to a higher percentage of male applicants, trying to get a closer balance of men and women.

"Is there a thumb on the scale for boys? Absolutely," said Jennifer Delahunty, a college enrollment consultant who previously led the admissions offices at Kenyon College in Gambier, Ohio, and Lewis & Clark College in Portland, Ore. "The question is, is that right or wrong?"

Ms. Delahunty said this kind of tacit affirmative action for boys has become "higher education's dirty little secret," practiced but not publicly acknowledged by many private universities where the gender balance has gone off-kilter.

"It's unfortunate that we're not giving this issue air and sun so that we can start to address it," she said.

Jay Wells's high-school graduation photo hangs at his parents' home in Toledo, Ohio.

PHOTO: STEVE KOSS FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

Jay Wells, 23, at his parents' house this summer in Toledo, Ohio.

PHOTO: STEVE KOSS FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

At Baylor University, where the undergraduate student body is 60% female, the admission rate for men last year was 7 percentage points higher than for women. Every student has to meet Baylor's admission standards to earn admission, said Jessica King Gereghty, the school's assistant vice president of enrollment strategy and innovation. Classes, however, are shaped to balance several variables, including gender, she said.

Ms. Gereghty said she found that girls more closely attended to their college applications than boys, for instance making sure transcripts are delivered. Baylor created a "males and moms communication campaign" a few years ago to keep high-school boys on track, she said.

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Among the messages to mothers in the campaign, Ms. Gereghty said: " 'At the dinner table tonight, mom, we need you to talk about getting your high school transcripts in.' "

Race and gender can't be considered in admission decisions at California's public universities. The proportion of male undergraduates at UCLA fell to 41% in the fall semester of 2020 from 45% in fall 2013. Over the same period, undergraduate enrollment expanded by nearly 3,000 students. Of those spots, nine out of 10 went to women.

"We do not see male applicants being less competitive than female applicants," UCLA Vice Provost Youlonda Copeland-Morgan said, but fewer men apply.

The college gender gap cuts across race, geography and economic background. For the most part, white men-once the predominant group on American campuses-no longer hold a statistical edge in enrollment rates, said Mr. Mortenson, of the Pell Institute. Enrollment rates for poor and working-class white men are lower than those of young Black, Latino and Asian men from the same economic backgrounds, according to an analysis of census data by the Pell Institute for the Journal.

Rich or Poor, Men Fall Behind

College enrollment rates by family income level, October 2019

Population,

millions

2.6

Gender

Male

Female

1.0

0.25

Race

White

Black

Asian

Hispanic

All

40

50

60

70

80

90%

$45,360 or less

With rare exception, women have a higher college enrollment rate than men of their same race.

$45,361 to $81,851

$81,852 to $138,747

White men's enrollment rate isn't much higher, and is often lower than, minority men in the same income group.

$138,748

or more

Note: Enrollment status of dependent primary family members 18 to 24 years old, by family income

Source: Analysis of U.S. Census Bureau Current Population Survey data by Tom Mortenson, Pell Institute for the Study of Opportunity in Higher Education
Angela Calderon/THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

No college wants to tackle the issue under the glare of gender politics, said Ms. Delahunty, the enrollment consultant. The conventional view on campuses, she said, is that "men make more money, men hold higher positions, why should we give them a little shove from high school to college?"

Yet the stakes are too high to ignore, she said. "If you care about our society, one, and, two, if you care about women, you have to care about the boys, too. If you have equally educated numbers of men and women that just makes a better society, and it makes it better for women."

The pandemic accelerated the trend. Nearly 700,000 fewer students were enrolled in colleges in spring 2021 compared with spring 2019, a Journal analysis found, with 78% fewer men.

The decline in male enrollment during the 2020-21 academic year was highest at two-year community colleges. Family finances are believed to be one cause. Millions of women left jobs to stay home with children when schools closed in the pandemic. Many turned to their sons for help, and some young men quit school to work, said Colleen Coffey, executive director of the College Planning Collaborative at Framingham State University in Massachusetts, a program to keep students in school.

"The guys felt they needed to step in quickly," Ms. Coffey said.

It isn't clear how many will return to school after the pandemic.

No plan

Over the course of their working lives, American college graduates earn more than a million dollars beyond those with only a high-school diploma, and a university diploma is required for many jobs as well as most professions, technical work and positions of influence.

Yet skyrocketing education costs have made college more risky today than for past generations, potentially saddling graduates in lower-paying careers-as well as those who drop out-with student loans they can't repay.

Social science researchers cite distractions and obstacles to education that weigh more on boys and young men, including videogames, pornography, increased fatherlessness and cases of overdiagnosis of boyhood restlessness and related medications.

Men in interviews around the U.S. said they quit school or didn't enroll because they didn't see enough value in a college degree for all the effort and expense required to earn one. Many said they wanted to make money after high school.

Daniel Briles, 18 years old, graduated in June from Hastings High School in Hastings, Minn. He decided against college during his senior year, despite earning a 3.5 grade-point average and winning a $2,500 college scholarship from a local veterans organization.

Daniel Briles preparing an audio track at home in Red Wing, Minn. His music is on Spotify under Daniel Envy.

PHOTO: TIM GRUBER FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

He took a landscaping job and takes home about $500 a week. Mr. Briles, a musician, also earns some income from creating and selling music through streaming services, he said, and invests in cryptocurrencies. His parents both attended college, and they hope he, too, will eventually apply. So far, they haven't pressured him, he said.

"If I was going to be a doctor or a lawyer, then obviously those people need a formal education. But there are definitely ways to get around it now," Mr. Briles said. "There are opportunities that weren't taught in school that could be a lot more promising than getting a degree."

Many young men who dropped out of college said they worried about their future but nonetheless quit school with no plan in mind. "I would say I feel hazy," said 23-year-old Jay Wells, who quit Defiance College in Ohio after a semester. He lives with his mother and delivers pallets of soda for Coca-Cola Co. in Toledo for $20 an hour.

"I'm sort of waiting for a light to come on so I figure out what to do next," he said.

Jack Bartholomew, 19, started his freshman year at Bowling Green State University during the pandemic, taking his classes online. During the first weeks, he said, he was confused by the course material and grew frustrated. Finally, he quit. "I don't know what I'm going to do," he said. "I just feel lost."

Mr. Bartholomew's parents and one older sister have college degrees. He was a solid student in high school and was interested in studying graphic design. Yet while working online from his second-floor bedroom, his introductory courses seemed pointless for how much he was paying, he said.

He works 40 hours a week, at $15.50 an hour, packing boxes at an Amazon warehouse not far from his house in Perrysburg, Ohio. It isn't a long-term job, Mr. Bartholomew said, and he doesn't know what to do next.

"College seems like, to me at least, the only logical path you can take in America," he said. But for now, he said, it is too big a struggle, financially and academically.

Jay Wells with the family dog, Reese, at his parents' home in Toledo, Ohio.

PHOTO: STEVE KOSS FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

Tomorrow's leaders

Men dominate top positions in industry, finance, politics and entertainment. They also hold a majority of tenured faculty positions and run most U.S. college campuses. Yet female college students are running laps around their male counterparts.

The University of Vermont is typical. The school president is a man and so are nearly two-thirds of the campus trustees. Women made up about 80% of honors graduates last year in the colleges of arts and sciences.

One student from nearly every high school in Vermont is nominated for a significant scholarship at the campus every year. Most of them are girls, said Jay Jacobs, the university's provost for enrollment management. It isn't by design. "We want more men in our pipeline," Dr. Jacobs said, but boys graduate from high school and enroll in college at lower rates than girls, both in Vermont and nationwide.

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The young men who enroll lag behind. Among University of Vermont undergraduates, about 55% of male students graduate in four years compared with 70% of women. "I see a lot of guys that are here for four years to drink beer, smoke weed, hang out and get a degree," said Luke Weiss, a civil engineering student and fraternity president of Pi Kappa Alpha at the campus.

Female students in the U.S. benefit from a support system established decades ago, spanning a period when women struggled to gain a foothold on college campuses. There are more than 500 women's centers at schools nationwide. Most centers host clubs and organizations that work to help female students succeed.

Young women appear eager to take leadership roles, making up 59% of student body presidents in the 2019-20 academic year and 74% of student body vice presidents, according to W.H. "Butch" Oxendine, Jr., executive director of the American Student Government Association.

"Across all types of institutions, particularly two-year institutions, but also extending into public and private four-year institutions, women dominate student government executive boards," Mr. Oxendine said.

Many young men are hobbled by a lack of guidance, a strain of anti-intellectualism and a growing belief that college degrees don't pay off, said Ed Grocholski, a senior vice president at Junior Achievement USA, which works with about five million students every year to teach about career paths, financial literacy and entrepreneurship.

"What I see is there is a kind of hope deficit," Mr. Grocholski said.

The campus of Bowling Green State University in Bowling Green, Ohio.

PHOTO: STEVE KOSS FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

Young men get little help, in part, because schools are focused on encouraging historically underrepresented students. Jerlando Jackson, department chair, Education Leadership and Policy Analysis, at the University of Wisconsin's School of Education, said few campuses have been willing to spend limited funds on male underachievement that would also benefit white men, risking criticism for assisting those who have historically held the biggest educational advantages.

"As a country, we don't have the tools yet to help white men who find themselves needing help," Dr. Jackson said. "To be in a time when there are groups of white men that are falling through the cracks, it's hard."

Keith E. Smith, a mental-health counselor and men's outreach coordinator at the University of Vermont, said that when he started working at the school in 2006 he found that men were much more likely to face consequences for the trouble they caused under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

In 2008, Mr. Smith proposed a men's center to help male students succeed. The proposal drew criticism from women who asked, "Why would you give more resources to the most privileged group on campus," he said.

Funding wasn't appropriated, he said, and the center was never built.

The University of Oregon has one of the few college men's centers, which offers help for mental and physical health. "Men don't need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps," said Kerry Frazee, director of prevention services, who works with the center. "No one can do it all by themselves."

Sep 7, 2021 - 6:39am

I know several men whose parents went to college and who don't go to college themselves and work in skilled trades jobs.  There's definitely more opportunity for men who don't go to college than women because those careers are very exhausting on one's body.

Sep 7, 2021 - 6:54am

I demand compulsory quotas for upper class liberal white women in the following sectors:

-mining

-construction

-agriculture

-firefighting

-manufacturing

-peacekeeping in warzones

All sectors that NEED more diversity.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

  • 2
Sep 7, 2021 - 1:56pm

Drumpfy

I know several men whose parents went to college and who don't go to college themselves and work in skilled trades jobs.  There's definitely more opportunity for men who don't go to college than women because those careers are very exhausting on one's body.

That is a fair statement but in general, I do not think women want to do manual labor.  I would not want to do it either. We hire people who want to do it.

Sep 7, 2021 - 4:29am

Western education today is basically a routine of humiliation for men (especially if indigenous Europeans), so that's hardly surprising. You go there to hear you are the root of all world's problems and that you should worship the latest woke fad. Why even go? Though this was always the goal. Liberals who claimed to fight for ''equality'' simply hated high achieving people. Just like their Soviet predecessors de-kulakized Russian farms. So in the name of equality, people who strive to achieve should be emotionally battered from birth, ''educated'' into a more ''feminine, compassionate'' world. The goal was always to have men check out of society. For the West, it has been mostly achieved. Men are demoralized, liberals are in charge. The only way to fix it is the old way to fix it.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

  • 4
  • 1
Sep 7, 2021 - 6:18am

Holy fuck, this guy is really comparing modern schools to the Holodomor (famine and genocide in the ussr) which killed ten million.  The alt right are the biggest snowflakes in the world

Sep 7, 2021 - 6:49am

The irony here is that ''diversity and inclusion'' specifically singles out a racial group which is not part of ''diversity'' but strictly excluded from it:

Enrollment rates for poor and working-class white men are lower than those of young Black, Latino and Asian men from the same economic backgrounds,

Fuck you racist white liberals. Fuck you traitors.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

Sep 7, 2021 - 1:58pm

Drumpfy

Holy fuck, this guy is really comparing modern schools to the Holodomor (famine and genocide in the ussr) which killed ten million.  The alt right are the biggest snowflakes in the world

Sometimes I wonder if he believes half of the things he says

  • VP in IB - Cov
Sep 7, 2021 - 8:15am

OP here. Kind of hilarious the direction it went. Blaming AOC (who has been around for like 5-6 years max), blaming female K-12 teachers (but not all the mothers - is your stay at home mother making you feminine?), college environment or the value of trade schools / vocational jobs (even though most farm workers, lawn guys and construction workers are actually Hispanics), playing up STEM (where girls are making lot of headway), law schools (historically male dominated) - among many others.
 

How about just try to do better? If you want to be manly by drinking and hanging out playing video games instead of actual hard work or getting good grades in school cause it wasn't custom built for your lack of work ethic or tendency to blame everything but you, things like investment banking isn't for you. 

Sep 7, 2021 - 9:57am

Drumpfy

Please bring up this entire thread when the word "snowflake" is used.  The victimization on this board is unreal

May be we should create a new protected class - the white man...

Sep 7, 2021 - 9:56am

OP here. Kind of hilarious the direction it went. Blaming AOC (who has been around for like 5-6 years max), blaming female K-12 teachers (but not all the mothers - is your stay at home mother making you feminine?), college environment or the value of trade schools / vocational jobs (even though most farm workers, lawn guys and construction workers are actually Hispanics), playing up STEM (where girls are making lot of headway), law schools (historically male dominated) - among many others.
 

How about just try to do better? If you want to be manly by drinking and hanging out playing video games instead of actual hard work or getting good grades in school cause it wasn't custom built for your lack of work ethic or tendency to blame everything but you, things like investment banking isn't for you. 

It is a good topic but unfortunately it was hijacked by people with grievances.

Sep 8, 2021 - 11:26am

The college gender gap has been widening for decades but sure let's blame a politician who's only been around a couple of years. It hit me when I saw the gender ratio at the most male university in Canada was 52% guys which means that every other university practically has more girls than guys. It's going to be a real issue going forward because graduating from college still has a better outcome than most non-college careers. Idc that your buddy makes 100k in trades... tell me how consistent that is and how long his body will last before he breaks down. 

  • Research Associate in AM - Equities
Sep 7, 2021 - 10:22am

So it's only 'systemic' when we talk about blacks but when white men suffer you blame the individual? Alt left hypocrisy at its finest 

Sep 8, 2021 - 2:54am

That's liberalism for you, two faced, backstabbing, hypocritical, treacherous liars

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

Sep 7, 2021 - 10:26am

There are a group of people on this site for whom everything (and I mean everything) is to be blamed on AOC/the libs/decline of traditional values, etc, etc.  Stubbed your toe?  The libs are coming for your band-aids!   Had a bad auto-correct on your iPhone?  AOC made Apple tweak their auto-correct algorithm!  To be fair, there are other sites where it's the other way around (Failed your latest exam?  It's the white patriarchy keeping you down!).  This site has become a place where there's very little room for apolitical discussion of macro trends in society.  There are many plausible explanations for this trend that don't fit into the culture war narratives, but that's not what people here want to talk about apparently.  

  • 5
Sep 8, 2021 - 9:13am

You didn't know? AOC coded auto-correct in her spare time. I joke, but honestly white men are disenfranchised. Nobody gives a shit because white men are the root of all evil according to the left. The sad thing is that the left has convinced white women of this. I've been saying for years that there has to be a punching bag for the left. It's white, straight, men and conservatives. Without those two, the left has nothing. They dont give a shit about anyone and just want power to point the finger.

Sep 7, 2021 - 10:28am

But that's not a "the libs are killing masculinity"/"damn right, down with the patriarchy" explanation, so people here aren't interested.  

Sep 8, 2021 - 3:02am

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Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
Sep 10, 2021 - 5:52pm

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Sep 8, 2021 - 9:16am

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