ops at Hedge Funds
What are your thoughts on an ops position at a hedge fund after graduation? The upside is that this is probably the most prestigious and one of the largest funds that is very hard to get in to. In addition to that, an ops position at a hedge fund differs from an ops position at a BB - it will be more of a hybrid between BO and MO. I will have direct exposure to the trading desks and can potential learn a lot.
The way I see it, the downside is that all of the firm's money and prestige is generated by its front people. The bottom line is that this is still not a front-office position and I am wondering how it will affect my future career growth and exit ops, particularly to Bschools. I am not that worried about the money and while it pays above the street level, I can live without the money and the perks, as long as I am sure that I am making the right decision for my future career.
Basically, there is a ton of nuisances, but with personality issues and personal preferences aside, do you think that I will be making a mistake in taking that offer?
I would rather shovel shit than work in the middle office.
ok.... can you be more specific?
I'll shovel shit and dump it right on your 3X5 corner cubicle buysideanalyst. I work in ops at a HF and it's really whatever you make it. I hate to break it to you high energy, but unless you're right out of a "target" grad school from with a kick ass GPA, BB street experience and a host of credentials and certifications to add, immediate front office HF might be a long shot unless you got the connects...do your time first...
I would say just go with your gut feeling. I know a guy who just moved to front office after 5.5 years in ops. His base instantly doubled and he just got to the trading desks. He sought to learn from the traders, the PM's and everyone in the office worth listening to. Also in case you didnt know, try to gun for the research analyst gigs, they pay more and are usually better tracked to be PMs as opposed to BO and MO aspirants that usually eventually go on to trading somewhere...
thanks your comments. 5.5 years seems a bit too much of a due, dont you think?
i have a few more questions for you if you have time to answer:
how long have you been in ops? are you learning or are you pigeon-holed in p&l compilation and trade accounting? what are your plans so for the future - bschools, fo, going to BBs?
are you happy with where you are? what is a typical bonus at ops?
5.5 may sound like a long time but consider the following: He started when he was 22, and the guy doesn't have his MBA. The fund I'm at has longevity and tremendous respect in the field. (He did get his CPA however)
He also has not stayed in one place. He bounced around between the accounting and pricing groups. (So consider 2.5 in each)
After that, he moved up to be an fund accounting mgr. (focusing exclusively on P&L calculation, proper trade settlement, etc.) The last couple of months he worked in our internal risk control.
I came from the I-Bank world. I did my year and some change and then made the transition which was not easy. I actually met the PM who hired me at a conference a few months back (I spent roughly 4 - 6 months trying to break in). Getting into the HF industry is really about building off all of your contacts. I work anywhere from 55 - 65 hours a week. (No more triple digit hours!)
I've been here for six months. Do I enjoy what I do? Yes. I think it's a great springboard into other investment mgmnt areas. The experience is all in what you make it. I take it upon myself to talk to my mgr about how I want to develop, transition and so forth, and they've been very receptive and helpful. This year will be my first bonus and we've been having a good year so I'm expecting somewhere between 75% to 100% of my salary. (It's all pennies in the bucket to them)
Lastly, I really dont know if I will head to B-School. I'll probably go a completely different route and either get a doctorate in mathematics or obtain an international masters degree in economics from LSE or something like that. I plan to be in the industry maybe all of my natural working life and I think I'm beginning to see a shift to individuals with good, relevant BB experience, but maybe less traditional post grad backgrounds. Good luck to you.
Vadremc,
Thank you for the response. It seems as though you are happy with where you are and are doing well so thats good to know because I am trying to decide where to go next year and I just want to make sure that I end up at the right place.
I am assuming you were in IBD at a BB, right? Why did you leave to do ops - switch from "front office" to BO work?
75%-100% of base salary bonus seems rather large for ops. I was under the impression that the bonus in ops is around 10-20% of base. Is that standard across the top HFs in ops? Do you have 55-65k base?
I work b/t 2 groups; research and accounting. The only thing that I really do in research is clean up the models for all of the junior analysts, but it's given me tremendous exposure & industry knowledge. Plus, they respect the fact that I work extended hours considering I'm not technically classified as a research analyst.(and damn sure don't get paid like one)
I-banking was a b*tch. That's why I left. I couldn't see the equal trade off between the hours I was working vs my compensation. But the challenge in the work was there, I just was starting to feel unfulfilled at an early age. As far as my background, my resume is a little unorthodoxed, but I'll give you a quick synopsis:
Sophomore and junior year of college: BB sales and trading / analyst role I was in, prepped junior traders...decided I didnt want to do it after junior year. Tried to parlay that exp into IB on the street, didnt happen. Had to go to a regional bank to get into IB. Virtually worked in everything...M&A, origination, debt capital markets...rotated around for a year. great exp, decent pay, terrible hours. decided to break out and try to get to HF, talked 4 weeks with the PM who hired me, worked out dual entry level experience between fund accounting (BO) and research groups in (FO) for indefinite period.
You gotta take risks out there. It's all in what you make it and how you ask for what you want. I owe all my quick wit and high tenacity to IB. You need that in the high finance world for survival, and that's what made me take my resignation letter and virtually throw it at my boss (they said they were not going to match the base offered; I was even pulling teeth on minor company perks!)
So that 100% bonus I'm talking about is highly conditional. I work extremely hard in both depts so I'm hoping my mgr(s) will acknowledge this, and reward me accordingly. Second, we are having a fantastic year. We are killing our benchmark by a couple hundred bps, so I'm just wishing on a star b/c the 10% to 20% is usually the standard for ops. Good luck with your decision, and let me know if you have any more questions.
operations assistant at a hedge fund (Originally Posted: 08/06/2010)
What are your views on an Operations assistant job at " Grant Capital partners " . Any idea about the company ? Is the role totally back office ?
Company Info: Grant Capital Partners, LLC (GCP) is a Global Macro Hedge Fund Manager located in Montecito, CA. GCP primarily trades foreign exchange, interest rate, and commodity derivatives utilizing OTC and futures markets globally.
Job Description: We are looking for a graduate candidate to join our operations team to assist in trade input, trade splitting and allocation, portfolio valuation, trade break resolution, cash management, and general operation related activities.
Thanks.
I met with a guy last week that is currently the COO of a macro fund. He started out at a fund (that at the time was small) called Moore capital doing similar work about twenty years ago. Throughout the conversation, he constantly reminded me that one great thing about being at a small fund is that you have the opportunity to build and take on as much responsibility as you wish. For example, this guy consolidated all the funds' mess of cash bank accounts into one account and then starting putting the money into money market funds (which did pay well at the time). He basically turned an expense/headache into a revenue generation area for the firm.
He went on to start his own fund and was given seed money from Bacon/Moore.
So if the fund is smaller and it has a culture where you are allowed to take on as much responsibility as you wish than that job has the potential to lead you down a lucrative path. PM me if you want to know more about what this guy had to say
Hedge Fund Operations Question (Originally Posted: 03/12/2010)
Hi WSO,
I recently discovered this site and was hoping to get some input on Hedge Fund bonuses for an entry-level Operations position (think Citadel, Fortress Investment Group, Soros). My friend told me that the Hedge Fund Vault guide said anywhere from 10%-50% of base salary, but that information was published in 2007 when economic times were obviously much better.
Can anyone venture a guess as to what bonus numbers are these days for the type of position listed above?
Bump.
depends on the shop, the size of the team, and of course, performance
Hedge Fund Ops (Originally Posted: 01/11/2010)
Hi all,
first time poster here. I have an interview coming up with a small hedge fund ($200 AUM), 6 man shop for an operations position(it's titled as a financial analyst position but im assuming it's a middle to back office type role). I do come from an accounting background(CPA, have worked in public accounting for the last 3 years) and was wondering if an opportunity such as this would be good exposure to the industry and also would it give me a chance to grow with the firm since they are such a small shop and seek more responsibility. Any comments and feedback about my expectations and what i should expect would be greatly appreciated.
It is going to be a good opportunity to network and get inside the industry. Breaking outside of your assigned role is always going to be tough and at the discretion of fund managers. If anything I think it would be a great role to take and use it for contacts after a top MBA.
Hedgefund Operations (Originally Posted: 06/19/2015)
Guys,
Why do I always see hedge fund operations jobs listed these days?
Would it be wise to switch from a BB ops positions to a hedge fund ops role, and if not why not?
Thanks T
Institutional clients these days care more and more about HFs having an "institutional-quality infrastructure", hence why the majority of individuals working at HFs now are on the operations/administrative side of the business rather than the investment side. Speaking on behalf of small shops, you'll get 25-40% of employees doing the research, trading or managing the portfolio and the remaining doing some sort of business related activity.
Thanks for the insight. So would that be a good career move? More opportunity to move to a FO role?
Hedge Fund Ops Analyst (Originally Posted: 07/27/2013)
Guy's I've finally received a reply for an operations analyst with a small hedge fund. It's the first interview i'm getting 3 months of demoralising cold war between me and potential employers.
The email mentioned that there will be a test on that day.
The test will consists of 2 parts, cash reconciliation. Where I'm will to be a broker statement,cash activity report to analyse and perform cash and trade reconciliation. And a second part where there will be some financial quiz that test for knowledge on financial instruments and Excel formulae.
I know a bit of cash reconciliation but I'm not sure if the same knowledge can be applied here for the broker statement and cash and trade recon. Does anyone know about how I can prepare for this?
Also, I know some Excel formulae but I'm not sure what I should look out for especially in this role?
I havent had any interview for the past 3 months and this will be the first. I really don't wanna blow up this opportunity, especially for the test where it's something i can prepare for. I only have about 3 days though.
Are you guys able to give me some tips on what I should prepare for, especially for Excel and the cash and trade reconciliation? I'm not sure if i know enough..
Damn im nervous as hell
just match the numbers dude. Not rocket science.
Yea i thought so but just wanted to maximise my opportunity and not blow it up and then regret later.. Been really tough to get a single interview all these while..
HF Ops - Offer to work at a boutique (Originally Posted: 02/08/2010)
Hi, I'm new to WSO, sorry for my bad english
i just got an offer to work at a boutique HF as an Ops trainee. Is it a decent choice for college graduate? Career prospects good or not?
Thanks for your advice
All depends on what your job prospects and ultimate goals are. Ops is a career in and of itself. Don't look at it is a stepping stone to something in IB or S&T because of the rarity of that happening. Give us a salary range and rough estimate of the HF you are working for and people can give you a better idea of if it is a good position or not. Being employed in this economy isn't that bad of a thing either.
Look up operations on the WSO search engine, and you'll know if its good or not. Ops is back office, and unless you want BO, it's very hard to get into FO, it takes hard work and luck. But once you read those forums, don't be disheartened, because the harder you work, the luckier you'll get.
So does it mean that if I would like to get into FO in the future, i should turn down this FO offer?
I would be weary turning down any job opportunity right now. If you go to a top 10 school then you probably can find something better in a normal time frame. If you go to a school outside of the top 10 you will have to do some serious recruiting. A lot of formal hiring from analyst positions have already been completed so you will be fighting an uphill battle.Without knowing all of the details it is hard to make a recommendation other than think long and hard before you turn the position down.
SOMEONE post a HF OPs success story (Originally Posted: 11/29/2007)
Ok, I know how much people hate these ops threads, but I need someone to give me feedback. Have final rounds with a 5.5 bill aum HF tomorrow in OPs. I did an ops job before and didn't like it. The job market turmoil is playing into my decision to consider this position. I have been plugging away, networking for over a year to no avail.
So finally, my dilemma is this - I have made some really great contacts lately, but things are slow this time of year, and the process can be tedious. I have final rounds tomorrow, and if I get the offer, I have no idea what to do. I don't want to take the offer, and burn these people in 2 months if something better comes along.
Is the job market so terrible right now that I should take shelter in ops, or is this truly the kiss of death. I would be ok with doing ops for a year, then going to ER, but it seems to risky to rely on.
Any thoughts?
Never heard of anyone going from ops to ER
Hope your interview went well. In what field are your contacts? If it's relevant to ER, maybe ask them if they could give you advice if you have received an offer for HF ops. If you haven't received an offer, do not bring it up the interview at all.
Ask them what you could do to make yourself a stronger candidate for ER. Keep going from there.
Thanks for the tips. I expect to get word back tomorrow or the next day. The problem is I don't have time to sit on the offer, only a day or two.
I've made great contacts in ER/Asset mgmt/IB and theyre all plugging away for me, but it takes time for these things to develop, and I don't want to be kicking myself if a great opportunity pops up after I begin the OPs job.
I've been networking hard for sometime now, and I feel close to my goal, but I don't want to be sidelined much longer.
tough decision - any other thoughts would be appreciated
You might piss some people off, but you can rescind/quit, just make up a good excuse so you don't get blackballed
i see nothing wrong w/ taking the job now and continuing to pursue those other options. ops has high turnover. you can tell other ppl you took the job for security during credit crisis. (which is somewhat true.) I know of two ppl who went from trading/ops to pretty lucrative IR jobs at bigger HFs, but they had some marketing exp too. also CFAs, that is useful i think.
i'd appreciate hearing some success stories in this area too. I'm working in trading (execution) & ops and currently looking into ways to move into more of an analyst/trade generation role. would love to hear ideas or exp on this. PMs/emails welcome
HF Ops - Looking/interviewing for HF (Originally Posted: 07/15/2011)
I'm currently looking/interviewing for HF Operations/Trade Assistant positions. I'm a recent non-target graduate, CFA level II candidate, currently working @ BB in risk compliance (hell).
Anyone have advice on how to land HF interviews / how to kill these OPs interviews? From what I've heard you want to let them know that you have aspirations beyond OPs, but not to play it up too much. You want to make their lives a seamless as possible while you're employed there.
thx
If you were looking to fill an ops role, who would you choose, the kid who would kill to get out of ops ASAP or the kid who wants to make a career out of ops?
Obviously I wouldn't hire the candidate who comes in blabbing about investing & trading. I would hire the guy who talks up his role as being in operations and making things move 'smoothly' for traders & PMs. However when you come from a non-target like myself w/ a semi-decent GPA, I find that the X-factor is drive. And to me it would seem artificial if a recent undergrad came in to tell me how excited he was about doing OPs the rest of his life.
I'm sure there is a way to balance the interview to show that you are definitely looking forward to doing OPs for the forseeable future, but like everyone else you have higher aspirations.
I guess my main concern is actually getting the interview. I have been networking with alumni, going thru recruiting agencies, albourne village.. I'm about to start cold-emailing some senior positions @ HFs. As of now most are telling me I need at least 2 years OPs exp.
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