What is needed to get into I-banking?
What kind of grades, extracurricular activities, and general knowledge are needed to get into investment banking (analyst position)? Kids with degrees in History are landing positions in investment banking these days! What's up with that?
showing leadership can never hurt, and genuine interest in finance and i-Banking...they will look and see, is he in the i-Banking club on campus? grades vary...obviously helps to have higher grades, but if you have some connections you could still land a job witha 2.8 (that's the way the world works). No connections, i would say below a 3.5 puts you at a disadvantage, but it also depends what school you go to and what your major is...if you went to Wharton and got a 3.3, that is obviously much better than a 4.0 at some Community college.
general knowledge: basic understanding of how valuation is done: commparable analysis, comparable transactions and Discounted Cash Flow . how to build a basic 3 statement model (this is not essential, but wouldn't hurt to have some Excel and PPt skills)
Also, you must seem VERY enthusistic and excited to work long hours -- you have to get across that you know the hours are brutal, but you don't mind because you'd be learning so much. yadda yadda yadda...
I can give you my perspective on the European I-Banking. Grades do definitly matter, as they are proof of the quality of work and commitment you might bring to the bank. It does differentiate you from the crop, as they are looking for the best candidate. This is the main thing you have to bear in mind; your profile is not in absolute terms but in competition with other candidates. So you have to stand out: leadership and genuine interest in finance, as mentioned by an earlier respondant, is what makes you different. You must head some kind of club on your campus, maybe have done some kind of charity work, and know what capital markets is all about.
I think I read somewhere in this forum that they look at your SAT scores. Is this true?
many banks ask for SAT scores at the analyst level and gmat scores at the associate level.
When I'm taking the first pass at incoming analyst resumes I put them in the following buckets:
Top Tier: Strong GPA (GPA>=3.7) and Strong Experience. Experience can be summers at a top bank, consulting, or college athlete.
Second Tier: Medium GPA and strong to respectable experience.
Third Tier: Strong GPA and no work experience or low GPA and strong work experience.
Basically, if you don't have either a strong GPA or strong experience, you're out of luck.
A friend of mine and I would like to get into Ibanking but we're both Mechanical Engineering majors at a tough school with one year left and less than impressive GPA's (2.8-ish). Do you think we'd get more consideration because of the harder major?
sorry not likely, even if you're at mit and caltech. we'd only consider you w/o finance experience if you had a high high gpa. otherwise, ask yourself this, why would we consider you? a 3.3 finance major at wharton isn't so impressive either but would probably be easier to justify
It all depends on what school you go to. I'm from a non-target school and it took a reasonable resume and EXCELLENT knowledge and presentation in the interview. If you have a brand name school behind you, it will only take a reasonable resume and good social skills, as mentioned above. The most important part is convincing them that you want to work 100 hours per week. They know how much it sucks and they don't want you having a breakdown (which can happen to the best of us after an unexpected 24 hour workday).
If you were born in 1987, as your name suggests, you have some time to prepare. Grades, leadership, and finance interest are key. Know the recent M&A deals. Also, don't freak out over Sophomore internships. I had a BS one and I still got in on grades, finance knowledge, and a handshake.
I'm going to be a senior in College (University of Illinois), and I really want to make it in the Banking arena. I don't have the strongest GPA (3.2), but I'm a double major (Finance & Economics), heavily involved in school activities, and I have some pretty good work experiences. I have worked at Merill Lynch in the Global Private Client Division, and currently work at Morgan Stanley in the Financial Controller Group in New York. Is this enough to garner an interview?
UIUC is a good school, but because u're already in NYC at MS doing a summer internship, this should help your case. you should network your butt off at MS and try to see if they offer mobility programs that let you interview with the banking division for a full-time offer. i know of people at GS who worked in the controller group as sophomores and networked that into a banking internship for their junior year.
ask around, talk to as many people as you can. you have a great opportunity there in NYC at MS!
I want to get into a ib summer program for next year and I want to know what my chances of getting in are or what I need to do. I don't go to a top tier school, but my school(University of North Florida) was rated in Princeton's review as 5th place for "America's Best Value Colleges." My gpa is decent, but I am a rising junior and have time to raise it. This summer I am interning at Merrill Lynch as a Global Market and Investment Banking Services intern. The manager has already told me that ifI want I can stay as a limited hour employee. If I stay there I will have 2 years of experience before I graduate. I volunteer on the side. I have taken online classes at Merrill Lynch University where I have got excellent grades. I also worked for a real estate brokerage firm but had to quit due to my intern hours with ML. I manage my own stock portfolio. I am thinking about applying to my school's student managed investment fund. . Also I was thinking about going up to visit Merrill Lynch's headquarters in NY. Would it be rude for me too e-mail some of the GMI recruiting people to see if they will see me when I am up there? Any advice on what I should do?
Should a college student be looking for internships the summer between his freshman/sophomore year?
Internship, high gpa, connections
I worked my butt off getting a freshman internship, and it's probably legitimate to have one, but i'm not too sure it'll affect your standing much come junior year or time for a FT.
Yeah I did too. I had a choice between doing PWM at a BB or M & A at a extremely small regional and chose the PWM. Both were not too shabby for a frosh. I eventually chose the PWM. Hope it was a good descision
junior year is of most importance..but interning fresh/soph year is definitely a plus....keep your grades up...great extra curricula and networking
Perfection breeds Perfection
iwibank: what internship did you get freshman year and how?
sssssss
How to get into banking - and WSO myths... (Originally Posted: 12/03/2012)
You come from a non-target? Sucks to be you You have a low GPA? Sucks to be you You want a job in banking? Sucks to be you
I've been on this website for almost 6 years, and only recently re-started reading some of the posts. Most of them are pointless, but there is the odd post that will entertain me, and make me realise how bad you guys all have it. What really drives me nuts is the posts were people just exchange a lot of useless information and "inform" everyone wrongly.
So I will start with a few myths:
When I interview people I like to ask the following question: "How do you hedge your gamma?" When I ask it, I KNOW that you will not know how to answer it. The only reason I am doing this is to see your thought process and how you re-act under pressure. End of. I don't care how you dress. I really don't, and nobody else does. If you are a student I don't expect you to come in tailored. Go to primark or some other cheap place, pick up a suit and a good white shirt and a tie; go even to a used shop to get it! Make sure the suit went through the tailor at the dry cleaner so he can make it look a bit better on you, and that should make it so that you don't look like a clown. You can get dressed for less than $200 including everything. That also goes with: should i wear my expensive watch? I don't care. True. Not a myth. Sucks to be an analyst. There is only one thing that works, and that is networking. At my old bank (think top BB), we would receive two books of 500 CVs each, that is the number of CVs that had made it through the HR screening out of 6000 to 10000 candidacies depending on the year. I can tell you that unless a kid made a genuine effort of reaching out to us, either on campus, or in some other way; there is a very low probability we will pick you from that book of CVs... If you are not in that book, it probably does not matter either, if I like you and I see you made an effort to reach out to me, I will ask you to come in for an interview; formal or informal. Unless you are a chartered CFA holder, no. MBA, no - only if you are at a top school, it will give you access to me at networking events and that is the only thing that matters. Excel courses? What the fuck? NO!Banking is still an extremely rewarding job, but that depends entirely on what you do and whether you are suited for it. Everything is not the same, and if you don't make it in banking. It's ok. I have friends on food stamp smoking dope all day long and they are loving it...
One last piece of advice: I will take a candidate that shows confidence (NOT arrogance, an arrogant prick will be escorted out of the room after 2 minutes). Determination, not why they want that job, but to show me they want to succeed in life. Also: don't crush my fingers when you shake my hands, grab the hands not the fingers numb nuts.
A final note I work in equities, but this is valid for the future bankers as well. Trust me, my friends in M&A, DCM, ECM etc... are the same bread I am made out of: human, and they don't like pricks...
Excellent points. Wish everyone read this before they start networking. A little effort goes a long way.
your reasoning that you like people to make the effort to reach out but you dont reward those who funnel effort into learning modelling or CFA L1 for example, doesn't correlate.
and yes, some people do not care what you dress like, but guess what, some people really do.
"effort into learning modelling", I believe it is a useless effort, as you are going to learn all of that on the job, and pick up one year of modelling classes in two weeks of being under the pressure. If you have taken level I good for you, especially if you come from a non-business related background. I would be impressed if that was the case, true. Not if you did business as undergrad, as L1 is your 3-4 years of business undergrad in one exam...
"People care how you dress" On that one - Please do not mislead people. What matters is who you are and that you know how to tie a tie, that's it. I don't need to see you in Gucci loafers and no need to worry about looking like a Ralph Lauren advert. If your suit does not look like it is 3 sizes too big for you, and you are not wearing clown shoes, that is all that matters. This is not an interview to become fashion director at Burberry's.
Also, OP, are you in Dallas by any chance?
I want to reduce the risk of wasting interviewers time. If they reached out, I can form an opinion on them, and generally avoid the "what were you thinking" candidates. If they didn't, I'm rolling the dice, and so need to see either approval from somebody else that I value (offer from competitor, aced finance course with the same hardass prof I had) or such I'm interesting resume I'm willing to take a chance to get to know more about the guy.
Dressing terribly for an interview might make you into "what were you thinking" candidate, so you want to avoid obvious missteps (bright socks, novelty/super skinny ties) when you talk to me.
Good stuff.
Very nice, I like.
SB incoming.
Summed up the whole notion of WSO.
Thanks for the post and information.
I just wanted to note though that when I talk to people about the exact difference between arrogance confidence, they all seem to have different answers and it seems like drawing a line in the sand at the end of the day. But based on my personal experiences, arrogance and confidence is just based on if the guy likes you in the first place and aren't that different.
When interacting with people, you will most certainly pick up the vibe of a confident and/or arrogant person, eventhough people have a hard time making the distinction consciously. Personally, arrogant people tend to transmit negative atmosphere to spectators.
OP, nice post. Thanks.
Wasn't there a thread on WSO where Bankerella (or someone else, I don't quite remember) was dinging kids for wearing bright pink shirts for the interview?
There are some douchbag bankers out there... But yea generally they are nice people from my experience
I will add something to this (and good post OP). When you are at a networking event, an interview, anything interacting with people who might or might not choose to hire you, think about the questions you ask them. Nobody wants to answer "what is your outlook on the markets" "where do you see the xxx industry going" or the same shit that they talk about and answer every day at work. And nobody is going to be 'impressed' by these sorts of questions either. People like talking about themselves and their experiences- ask questions accordingly.
Nice post. Thank you
Good insight from the OP. As an old-time user in this site (joined in 2007, so that might as well be 1990), I would add two points:
About the OP - I agree that showing up to the interview dressed properly and not flashy or slovenly. The interviewer should remember you because of your energy, your insightful answers or train of thought (if you didn't get the answers right) not because of something superficial like how you were dressed.
Networking - Even though I look at resumes and conduct interviews in my group, I still get cold calls by folks in college. What I always tell them is to look at their school's alumni database and start emailing folks in specific companies. The people that want to be contacted tend to have the most updated profiles so take advantage of that.
Finally, this site is designed to help prospective monkeys and does that job well even though you get the occasional "Wear a Patek to work, yes or no?" or "I know everything about mezz lending because I've been at my group for 3 weeks" posts. If you're going to ask for help/insight/advice, make sure to get back to the people you PM. Sending a PM like "I have 10 questions about xyz" and not telling us whether or not you got the gig (or a simple "thank you") is poor form.
Great post, so true about the networking point. Doesn't matter from which school you graduate, all about how much effort you put into building your professional network.
Delete
There is a difference between where, were and wear...#JustSaying - But you speak the truth.
One addition, networking is great and works well but for conglomerates e.g. HSBC it's tough to network with the right person so make sure your networking is very well targeted: find that right person!
How can I get into Investment Banking? (Originally Posted: 08/14/2015)
Hi, I'm a new user! I always wanted to be an investment banker since I took a few finance classes in college. I ended up studying engineering and management which I regret. I want to get into IB. How can I do this? I'm 23 years old. Do I need to go back to university to get a Finance degree? How can I get into this field now? Thanks!
"took a few finance classes in college" - so why investment banking? why not any a corporate finance role, Asset Management, etc? I ask this because it's something you're going to get asked.
There are plenty of opportunities for engineering majors, but you're a little late to the game in terms of analyst recruiting. Are you currently working in an engineering role? I'd reach out to any friends or alumni in banking and getting their opinion. Your chances are much better at a smaller MM bank than a BB.
You might consider working for a few years, getting your MBA, and then trying to break in as a post-MBA associate. It's a pretty common route.
How to get into I-Banking (Originally Posted: 08/24/2007)
I'm a 19 year student at Texas A&M University, It has become a passion for me to get into Ibanking. I live in Houston and plan on moving to NY soon after Graduation. My question is that if somehow i dont land a job at an I-bank and i take my career into another direction, would it be possible for me to get into I-banking after I get my MBA? And is a Chartered Financial Analysts (CFA) valuable in I-banking? I will appreciate any answers you guys give me, I'm still very confused about my future so any input would help me a great deal, thank you.
The CFA's not generally that useful in traditional investment banking. I've known some ECM groups (which belongs to IBD in many banks) who valued CFAs. It's a requisite in equity research.
And yes, the entry points for investment banking are usually directly after undergrad and directly after MBA.
So what do you think will put someone like me (hundreds of miles away from NYC) in a favorable position for a position at an Ibank? I have a great deal of sales experience (i work part time to pay for school) I am very good verbally, does this stuff matter? After an MBA does a person get an Analyst position or an Associate position?
It sounds like you dont even know what ibanking is...your best bet is to read a vault guide and research the field on google.
get yourself involved in the industry (finance related article, books, vaults, magazines) and then ask how to break in...bst thing to do...get an I-banking internship, high gpa. by an ibanking internship I man GET TO KNOW THE INDUSTRY, etc.
Your sales/verbal skills will hopefully help you be presentable in an interview; that's it. Quantitative skills, knowledge of finance, and technical ability (i.e. Excel, Powerpoint, and research) are really the items that count in hiring an analyst. If you're not yet a junior, try to get as much finance-related experience as you can, and try your best to network your way into a summer analyst position at an i-bank before your junior-to-senior summer. If you miss this, your chances of becoming a full-time analyst virtually evaporate.
Assuming that's the case, which was your original question, your next entry point is post-MBA as an associate, which will be years away. Pre-MBA banking experience is not necessary to become an associate, in fact, most MBA associates have never worked in banking (banking analysts, as a whole, will either go straight to becoming associates without MBAs, leave for the buy-side, or get out of the industry entirely). You will want to have gone to a top MBA program, however, to be recruited to a respectable bank.
By the way, I personally think that an associate position in IBD is relatively unappealing. The pay is pretty decent, but the lifestyle is probably 5-10% better than being an analyst while the exit opportunities are 90-95% worse (and I think exit opportunities represent a large part of what people hope to get out of their time in banking). Something to consider that I think is underappreciated by banking hopefuls on this site.
Ignore the Aggie, please.
How to get into investment banking (Originally Posted: 07/26/2007)
Currently im in a very reputable boutique in their hedge fund department, but i really want to switch over to M&A or restructuring finance...basically anything else. I'll be a senior this fall and am looking into getting my hands on ANYTHING during the school year. Any suggestions, recommendations, etc.
thanks!
what the hell do you mean by 'hedge fund department of a reputable boutique'? what do you do there?
Fund of funds; fund accounting.
How hard is it to get into investment banking? (Originally Posted: 04/18/2013)
How hard would you get say it is, on a scale of 1-10? Does it help at all if you already know people working in that industry?
7.6 and yes.
See FAQ's before starting threads pleaz.
How hard is it to make a million dollars?
Does it help if I already know a lot of rich people?
It is going to be a lot harder if you continually ask stupid questions
Strange how you decided to answer my question when you consider it 'stupid'...how very nice!
Oh it's hard. Really hard. mmmmm
Pretty easy, really. All you need to do is have top grades from a very elite college while having leadership experience in activities and great internships. That and you have to beat a couple hundred other kids who have the same credentials.
Is this a serious question? A quick read around this forum who quickly answer your question. If this is how you approach every question you have, breaking in will be especially tough for you.
How hard is it the play QB in the NFL?
Does it help if you're a Manning not named Cooper??
“Everyone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege."
Oh come on this is just asking to be trolled... "as hard as a Penn State official in the Nittany Lions' locker room."
Seriously why would you ask a question like this...
Any Advice, Want to get into investment banking (Originally Posted: 03/12/2008)
I got my MBA with a specialization in finance and investments at Baruch College, 3.8 GPA, I graduated in 2005. I've been working in a family business Auto Parts Distributor though since 2002. The only experience in the field that I have came from some summer internships at Bear Stearns back from 95-97. I would look to get into the Investment Banking field any advice on what would help me land a job would be appreciated.
well you've certainly come to the right place. given you have your MBA, I'm guessing you would be able to get a summer associate position (I'm guessing banks have that, given their SA positions...i may be totally wrong, let me know if i am guys; the HF i work at now have summer analyst spots for MBAs currently enrolled). call up your schools' (both UG and MBA) career centers and ask for some leads. talk to your MBA profs. given, i'm graduating college in May and am just starting my i-banking career, but ive managed to figure out that the majority of finance spots can be acquired due to networking, contacts, etc. just bug anyone you know, and youll get in. good luck.
LOL
How to get into a top bank? (Originally Posted: 06/06/2013)
I want PE and I know that the 80/20 rule is alive and well in banking exit ops. With that in mind, how can I move up from my current situation. I'm a summer analyst at a 2nd tier BB (Citi/DB/BAML/BARC/CS) in a mediocre group with limited exits (think specialized like RE/Power/FIG). I know focusing on the offer is the main thing BUT I need to also think about my FT years.
I am scared I'll have no option if I stay on in my current group except to take a 3rd year or take a huge paycut after having no exits. I am extremely ambitious and am willing to do whatever it takes. I got this far against all odds (unorthodox situation).
No one in my family did shit with their lives and they all demean my job to compensate for their inadequacies. "you're just a secretary" etc. I need to prove it to myself and them that I can kick it with the best recruits in finance. It'll crush me if I can't.
Please advise me.
Stop trying to impress mommy and daddy
Yeah, do it for yourself not your family.
Things to do in college to get into i-banking (Originally Posted: 09/04/2015)
I am a recent high school grad who wants to get into i-banking after college. I will attend a target school this fall and I am wondering what sort of activities i should do and when should I get internships? I do already plan to be involved in a fraternity and play club rugby . I have already done a few small finance internships for some family members and friends who runs a brokerage firm and another who manages money for some clients. Thanks for any help , I understand I may be getting ahead of myself .
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This has been covered a lot. But honestly just get a high gpa, get involved in clubs or whatever and most importantly, have a lot of fun, this is college after all.
Thanks for the advice , I am new to this site . I heard about from some friends , there was a bunch of us at my HS who all want to go into I-banking . The college I am going to has a lot clubs and stuff .
Mercy, I didn't even know what I banking was in HS
Let me guess. Prep school kid
-Good grades -Get leadership positions (anything, really...as long as you're committed) and/or be good at sports -Internships -Show an interest and desire to learn the Financial industry. You don't really need a degree or experience from Economics or Finance (though it helps), but you need to show genuine interest in learning. If your reasoning and motivation for a job in finance is "Because I've heard it pays well", don't expect many calls back after the interviews.
Pretty simple formula. Works for Consulting and other fields as well.
Get an understanding of what investment banking involves.
ways to get into I-banking (Originally Posted: 08/21/2011)
ok so I'm going to be a senior in college, major in political science, minor in economics. The econ at my school does involve a decent amount of math, and my school's biz undergrad is considered pretty good. I was originally thinking of doing something politics related (ie think tank, lobbying), or law school, but I've decided against those. I wanna do i-banking. This summer I interned at a consulting startup in New York City, and some of our clients include publicly traded companies or ones owned by big PE firms. Before this summer, I had interned on several political campaigns. I also am fluent in Spanish, and am starting Chinese this year. I'm also a student leader, active in extra-currics, and president of an organization. My GPA is 3.55, the school in general is academically similar to BU, Fordham, UDel.
What are my chances? Could I do BB or am I limited to boutique? Also, are there high paying IB/PE/HF jobs outside of NYC?
Start networking NOW. This is the season to make a connection that will hook it up with the fall recruiting cycle. If you do one thing, network your ass off like you life depends on it from now until October.
It's going to be tough without a business or quantitative major from a non-target school.
One path I could possibly see working is Federal Reserve or Treasury -> Fixed Income Research or Trading.
Trying to get into banking (Originally Posted: 12/01/2008)
I am currently a student at Texas A&M in their Professional Program in Accounting. It's basically a five year program where I get a Bachelors in Accounting and Masters in Finance. Its geared obviously towards accounting careers with a few lucky people going into finance (maybe 5-10 out of the 250 members). I have a 3.6 undergrad and a 4.0 grad GPA. I am currently working part-time at the Merrill branch in town helping an advisor with researching various equities, bonds, and mutual funds. I want to get into anything finance but mainly banking or possibly research but my options are limited since I am from a nontarget. I have applied to every SA program I know of and wanted to see if anyone had any tips. Your thoughts are appreciated.
Best Advice I got is apply specifically to Houston/Dallas offices.
The energy trading floors in Houston are littered with Aggies; look up some alum and start networking. Recruiting, both for SA and FT can often be seperate from the main recruiting process for the Houston offices so it's important to get in touch with people down there specifically; don't just apply through the main recruiting process! Being a TAMU student, I'd think you wouldn't have any trouble at least getting some contact info of alum in the field & region.
Sorry, I forgot to mention that I am trying to get to New York where hardly any aggies go
Well than you know the deal. Take advantage of any and all on-campus recruiting, network as much as possible (there must be some aggies in NYC) and apply online.
Remember though, in this market, beggers (which we all are) can't be chosers. You have the unique situation of being at a school which has a lot of alum in a particular market; may be wise to try to take advantage and not place all your eggs in one basket. Recruiting for general programs in New York I'm sure will be extremely competitive this year.
If you have an opportunity to talk to recruiters that are looking to hire someone in Houston, then just go with it and try to get a job in Houston.
Because, if you start telling them that you are really interested in NY, then they will tell you, "okay, I will forward your resume to a recruiter from NY", and you will most likely never hear from them again.
If you really want to go to NY then try to get in touch with someone directly in New York, because otherwise it is almost impossible unless your credentials are outstanding.
In this market I would apply to locations that are most likely to grant an interview. Since A&M is not a school that NY offices normally look at, your resume may get passed over (especially now...banks are hiring fewer and as a result, I would think they will be very highly selective). Personally, I would send the app on over to the houston/dallas offices.
Either way good luck.
How to get into banking (Originally Posted: 07/31/2014)
Hi, my name is Mario Reyes. I am currently a college student and hopefully will be transferring into CSU Long Beach. I am looking for advice on how to get into banking, if I am not coming from a target school.
One thing that is important is to bust your ass and not expect things to be handed to you on a silver platter.
Really try to transfer into a target school. IBD recruiting can be broken down like this, 60% is based on the school you went to, 30% based on your GPA and 10% based on how well you perform in the interviews.
if you want it bad enough, you'll do whatever it takes. anyone on this forum can give you as much as advice as you'd like, and that's a good start, but coming from a non-target you have to be willing to go above and beyond and be creative.
work your ass off, network as much as possible, becoming fluent in the technicals, and find something you can do to set yourself apart from the rest. whatever that special something may be, is completely up to you.
Hard work, dedication, and a little bit of luck is what it takes to get in.
also, use the search bar on this site and run searches for similar topics. this site is littered with non-target kids, myself included, who all want to know the same thing.
It will be undoubtedly difficult. CSULB is not even a regional target, so you are going to need to network a lot to find someone that is in a position to (1) get you some relevant internships. This means that you need to network in every way possible- linkedin, family, school alumni, you will need to be on the networking grind constantly. This is further stressed by the fact that you are transferring from somewhere else (i am assuming a CC) which means that you only have 2 years left and are transitioning into a new school (meaning wanting to do social activities, make friends, etc). It will be incredibly difficult to break into finance and it will definitely mean sacrificing sleep and fun but if you work your ass off you may have a shot. Also keep in mind that you will be facing tough competition from regional targets (in an already small banking sector in California) and other UC non-targets also trying to break in. Its a tough decision to make and if you make just be prepared for the difficult journey. Good luck.
Would it be easier for be to try to get into a another industry in finance and then try to move into IB? I do not want this to sound like I have no confidence or I'm a lazy ass who does not want to do the work to become one, just I would rather keep the option I would have when I finish school open. Another random question, how does one obtain a branch office with a bank like Morgan Stanley?
obtain an internship?...do you mean at a Morgan Stanley PWM office? or like MS Menlo Park IBD?
Referrals to get into I-Banking? (Originally Posted: 01/14/2013)
My brother-in-law works as a VP in Investment Banking. I am not sure if I should approach him to refer me for a job in I-Banking.
GMAT - 720 Age - 30 Gender - Female Experience - 8+ years as an Engineer in the Silicon Valley Undergrad GPA - 2.9 downward trend from Cornell. I did fail classes as well.
Do I need to get a MBA or can I approach my brother-in-law to refer me to get a job in I-Banking. Do referrals help? With my background, do I need to go get a MBA or can I pull some strings and get into I-Banking?
Worth a try to ask him.
Even though you went to a target (Cornell), your GPA is way too low. So yes, you should ask him for referral. Did you major in nuclear engineering or something? What happened to your grades?
I would definitely network with him and see what he can do. Why I Banking at such a late age? If you want to break in as an associate or higher you probably have to go back to get an MBA and rebrand. I doubt you would want to apply to be an analyst.
pull some strings ...
You absolutely need a MBA.
No one is going to hire a 30 year old engineer to do a 22 year old's job. You would be the laughingstock of the bank, get your story posted on dealbreaker, and distract every other 22 year old from doing their work and being productive.
You'd also make things awkward for the 26 to 28 year old associates who would have to boss you around and yell at you all day.
And of course no bank would hire a 30 year old engineer for an associate role either without a MBA.
Yes, I meant to say that I want to break into I-Banking as an Associate. Not as an analyst. What is the upper age limit to break into I-Baking as an Associate? Are you saying I need to get a MBA to get in as an Associate? Won't networking help without a MBA?
You need a MBA to get in as an associate.
Networking will not help.
Thanks a lot SanityCheck. If I go for a MBA, I will be 32/33 when I graduate. Is that too old to be hired as an Associate? What are my other options on wallstreet if not I-Banking at that age? How about Equity Research?
Kind of annoying to see you pop up every few weeks with same stupid questions. Make up your mind and go do something instead of doing what if analysis. Ask your brother in law for advice or whatever.
none of ur f***** biz dude. if u don't wanna f***** see my posts don't sit n read them. u actually have the time ot be on this site n sit n reply to stuff u thing is pointless. then simple don't
Haha what a well articulated response. I'm sure thats how associates at BBs respond to their clients.
Haha I actually just burst out laughing while I read this. Now my co-workers probably think I'm weird.
"this site n sit n reply to stuff u thing"
Hahaha what?!?! And the fact you are a woman makes it even funnier, because it was so unexpected!
My advice is to really do a self-chek to see if you're cut for this space. What are your strengths/weaknesses, what motivates you, why banking...what is it about banking/finance that is attractive to you. Is it the money, caliber of coworkers, the work product etc. I say go for the MBA but only if you know you can make it work for you in your over arching career objectives - planning for the chance that banking might not be viable.
And no age is not a factor at 30. A pt MBA will definitely be a slight handicap along with your non finance degree but in all honesty if you're smart, somewhat attractive, personable and polished, you might have a shot however it is fierce out there and the reality is if you're a 30-yr old female looking to breaking into banking through MBA recruiting, you better be at least a 7.
My two cents... Take it for what it's worth but this is the truth.
different way to get into ibanking (Originally Posted: 10/21/2006)
It seems that a large amout of people here talk about the two years as an analyst as being the worst. Are the hours the same at a small boutique. i would imagine that they would be less, and if they are less, why not just start as an analyst at a boutique, go to business school, then start as an associate or vp at a bigger firm. now of course there are uncontrollable cariables to take into account, but genarlly is this a feasible thing to do. all comments are welcomed
I am a first year analyst in a small boutique and work about 80-90 hours a week. I am going to try to move to a BB or at least a larger bank for my second year.
Are boutiques really that bad? If so, in what ways? Compensation? Exposure? Career opportunities? etc.
Boutiques work more or less same hours as BB, except for a few days out of the month when there is little workload
Compensation is more less the same, except the bonuses are about 20% less.
Training is almost non existent, you get to pick up the stuff from older bankers
Competition is worse off than at BBs because Boutiques hire much smaller #s.
Exit ops are less too, When you have goldman on your resume it'll not only open doors but will kick them in. Boutqiues will help you open doors too, but it'll be harder to get into the top business schools, and I'm guessing exit ops into PE are much smaller.
personally my #1 choice right now that I hope to get in is this boutique bank thats literally 10 minutes from my house.
My main reason is that location is very convienent + it'll allow me to have a car which is a big plus since cars are my hobby...+ living at home and saving 1.5K extra per month is excellent too...altho don't dispair..my parents are already making plans for me to pay the mortage for the house...and to use my yearly bonus to pay towards the principal on the mortgage.
The main advantage to working in a boutique is the actual work itself. Even as an analyst, I am involved in the entire deal process and actually participate rather than churning out pitchbooks and putting together PowerPoints all day.
I think that compensation and training depends on the firm. At my boutique, our base is higher than at BBs, but our bonus is a little less. Our training program is almost an exact replica of that of the BB that one of our MDs came from but has been altered by each new analyst that works through it. It is expected that each new analyst contribute something of their own to the program to enhance it for the next analyst.
so pretty much at a boutique you have the responsibilities of an associate at a BB?
In some boutiques..YES.
Some...no.
It really depends on how they like to structure their operations and the number of people at each rank there are.
I'm looking at a boutique to start out.
Same work as an analyst at a BB, plus you are able to work on the deal process. After two years of that and business school if needed, go kick some ass at a huge BB with an amazing amount of self confidence!
Self confidence, that's where it's at!
generally would any of you say that you move up the ranks as far as promotions faster at boutiques
Hi all,
Considering that boutiques make only a few new hires and do not have extensive recruiting campaigns, what are the best ways to get my foot in the door?
Thank you.
How can I get into IBanking (Originally Posted: 10/03/2012)
I have spent about 30 hours on this site and I have seen plenty of discussions about how to get into ibanking and how to be a superstar at target schools etc.
I am starting this thread and asking this question because I haven't seen people like me get a decent answer from anyone on this forum. This is a more personalized question and I think people who are in my situation will like learning about what they can do to improve.
I am from a non-target state university double majoring in accounting and finance. I have a 4.0 gpa and I have been very active in club organizations, participating in sports, founding organizations, community service, and attending conferences. I have interned with a large bank, though not a BB, and I am currently in my senior year. My problem is this: I don't know how to break into i-banking given my circumstance. It seems the large banks really only recruit from the target universities. I have a very good chance of attending UVa to get my masters in accounting and then on to a big 4 firm and my CPA. I know people on here trash accounting and I really do not want to start a flame war. I just need to know what I should really do to break into the i-banking world.
Would getting my CPA and going big 4 (audit tax or even advisory) help me break into i-banking or do I need to land some job right out of undergrad and hope to get into a decent MBA program in a few years? By decent I mean top 20 as I do not believe I would be able to get into top 5. And if I were to choose the latter, what type of job should I be looking to land right out of undergrad to help set me up for i-banking given my circumstances?
Thanks in advance.
Even for target school students it's very hard to get an IBD offer with no junior SA since most spots are reserved for them. Your only shot would be at a no-name boutique, or luck from networking.
Don't get your CPA. It's a waste of time and money. It's almost impossible to break in from Big 4.
Don't think a top 20 school for MBA would be good enough to break into a good firm at the associate level. Maybe Ross though (T-14).
Have you thought about getting a MsF at a top school and then break in?
I broke in from Big 4 and I backed into the opportunity out of sheer luck. Right place right time sort of thing. unless you have contacts it is very hard to do. The CPA is just an imprimatur on your Accounting degree and it won't help you work in banking.
What you could do: Go on linkedin and search for alum in banking from your school and email them asking to meet or chat so you can learn about their story and/or you could go to your school's career center and ask them what contacts they have at banks throughout the country.
Keep in mind you may have to start at a MM bank and that's not bad because you may realize that moving on to a BB isn't worth it anyway. Plenty of people on here would agree that.
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/how-i-got-into-banking
I haven't really weighed a masters in finance against a masters in accounting.
What exactly is an mm?
MM = Middle Market
So banks such as BB&T or Wells Fargo would be considered middle market or am I way off base?
We differentiate firms based on revenue/staff size. In regards to BB&T and Wells Fargo, it's middle market.
If you want read up on Bulge Bracket, Middle Market, and Boutique.
how can you have spent 30 hours on this website and not found the answers to your questions?
I knew mm was below bb I just never found the actual term.
What type of role within WF would be considered ib? I had an internship this past summer though it was Asset Management for clients
You need to brush up on what investment banking is versus what private wealth management is versus what Asset Management is. You'll find better information here with regards to what particular banks are better than others and even more specifically what groups in IB are considered better than others.
Thank you NYU I appreciate your comments
You'll see from reading on this forum that when you make a pitch to a recruiter or a banker to come work in their group that you need to have your story straight. You'll need to convey that you're sure about the group, the lifestyle, the work etc. - even if you're not. Sitting in front of someone and coming off ambivalent about accounting vs banking is not going to get you into the next round. So brush up on the industry, talk to people in the know and then start networking and don't give up.
If a company doesn't have an IBD is there a certain job title I should be pursuing?
How To Get Into Investment Banking (Originally Posted: 02/24/2007)
I'm from Toronto Canada. 26 years of age and writing the second level of CFA. Have a masters in Econ from U of Toronto.
Currently working as an IR at a discount brokerage.
Objective: ibanking position
Question: How can I get in? What do I need to do and what route would you recommend to increase my chances?
By ibanking I guess you mean a corporate finance position? If so, my understanding is that you should have went for a MBA instead of CFA or Masters in Econ.
Maybe sales & trading would have better suited your educational background.
to be precise, I'm interested in M&A
Cannot get into MBA at the current moment for I have no working experience, just graduated and recently just started working. To apply for MBA, one usually needs roughly around 2-4 years of experience.
Got the MA since it was a free ride. It only took one year and it can be seen as a continuation of my undergrad.
The MA is quite different then the MBA. Not much recruiting. Actually, nobody but the Bank of Canada came to recruit us. Most MAs work towards a PHd.
Also, the MBA is expensive and I cannot afford it.
I would like to know my chances. I'm doing research on the industry right now, but the recruiting seems to be primarily from MBA schools. However, I'm in Canada, and it seems to me that it might be a bit different.
Please share your thoughts
Being in Canada just makes it even more difficult.
Try and get a finance related job (not IR or retail) and make the more in 2 years.
I pretty much have a free ride into an MA Econ program at three top 20 schools in the States. I would rather get that out of the way since it’s only a year and half long program tops.
But recruiting is surprisingly good for an MA in Econ. at the schools I am applying to. I know that an MA is not as highly regarded as an MBA but it’s not the end of the road.
its good to take the free ride. i have no regrets about doing it at all. I mean, i spent one year and got a graduate degree. what school you planning on?
Chances are, the material in the MA program are harder then the ones in the MBA program. In all fairness, the MBA is problably much more practical work but less theoretical thinking.
It can't hurt to have the MA, but what bothers me about the MBA is that it cost 80k. And for what? the recruiting basically and that to me is not quite worth it. I'm not rich by any means.
I know employers especially ibanks don't value the MA in econ as much, problably because most of them haven't done it themselves. If they did, they would understand that most of the valuation models being a taught are just remnants of more refined economic theory. I guess that's just the way life is.
What's your undergrad degree in? Do you have a UofT B.Comm or a BA in Econ? I'm presuming that you have a BA.
There are certain differences between Canada and the States from an undergraduate business perspective. In Canada (with the exception of the HBA at the Richard Ivey School of Business, UWO), all BUSINESS degree programs are 4 years long and are heavily recruited. These degrees (either BBA or B.Comm) begin with business education from first year through to fourth. From what I understand, and I'm no expert, but in the States most business programs begin in 3rd year and you only really get 2 years of pure business learning. As a result of the 4-year business education, in Canada, you can do an MBA in 8 months. In many programs, the same material is taught to 3rd and 4th year undergrads as is taught to MBA students.
It is considerably more difficult, in Canada, to be accepted to a 4-year business degree program (out of HS)than it is to a BA. It is for this reason that banks, accounting & consulting firms and major corporations recruit almost exclusively from them.
PeterBent, your issue is that you should have done a B.Comm or a BBA, worked for 2-4 years and saved money, then gone to Rotman.
thanks for your input. I went to Western and did my BA(4 years honours) in economics. subsequently, got a free ride to graduate school and took it of course. decided against the phd since i won't be able to conjure up world changing ideas. I like money much more now since I have to move out and get girls. Also, from what I have been reading, M&A does suit my interest very well.
Outside of Ivey and a few top business schools, the B.Comm is essentially as meaningless as my BA in econ. No, you don't get into Ibanking with them. I have plenty of friends with B.Comms working with me.
but the question now is, what can I do?I'm going to contact some managing directors and in the meantime finish up my CFA. I need some type of professional designation just for safety. I understand that is very possible that my chances are close to zero, but realization of such is the best form of evidence.
At this point, I'm relatively uncertain as to my career prospects of getting into M&A. Some say, "you have no shot, might as well quit". Other say, "keep going". I'm a fighter at heart and don't like to quit, so I will try until sufficient information is presented indicating my failure.
I recently started at TD Waterhouse, and I do see internal postings for institutional banking that I dont see advertised. I'm planning on going that route. But I like to cover all possible bases and come completely prepared.
80k is a lot to be paying for just to get a job recruiter to come talk to me. I might as well spend 10k in the process of finding them.
What do you guys think?
I am in a similar boat as you though I do have a BBA and am working towards CFA as well..
I want to get into IB as well....I am just thinking cold-calling every bank/investment dealer in Toronto.
I would gladly get out of here if I could as I hear it is a LOT easier in the UK/US to get into the industry. Have you considered that option?
Cheers.
Really has no idea of the purpose of the degree. Seriously, the average income of MBA grads is over 100K. Like the 80K really matters in the scheme of things....
Besides, doing something cause it's a "free ride" is not a very good reason, especially in econ...Where's is the value of the degree other than having the certification? Unless employers specifically recruit for that level, it's a wasted year, doesn't matter what you think of the degree, it's what employers think of the degree.
what b school did you come from?
Is it sitll possible to get into investment banking? (Originally Posted: 02/12/2009)
I'm currently a junior taking the hardest major at my university. It's not a target. Here's the problem: I have a 2.8 GPA. You'd think I have no chance, right?
I worked hard to pull a 4.0 last semester and have As in all of my classes right now. If I can keep doing this, I'll have slightly above a 3.0 GPA after next semester and I'll have pulled a 3.1-3.2 GPA when I graduate.
However, because of my GPA, I likely won't be able to get an internship this summer and even if I do, it won't be a very good one. It definitely won't be even a bad one in investment banking; it'll probably be in another area of finance.
I'm scoring near perfect on gmat practice tests so grad school is an option if I need to go that route to get into investment banking.
Is it still possible to get into investment banking? How should I go about doing it?
Edit: I'd also love to get into trading, specifically foreign exchange. Unfortunately, this also might not be a possibility.
Let me start off by saying that nothing is IMPOSSIBLE. However, given how competitive it is out there I would say your chances are slim.
Generally, the more removed a school is from being a target, the higher the GPA cutoff for interviews. I've got a lot of buddies at a semi-target school that have 3.7+ GPAs with decent work experience that aren't getting interviews.
It might be worthwhile to do some networking. Use your career center to get in touch with graduates in the investment banking world. That may help to improve your chances and open some doors.
that'll be very tough, but at least you can have a good story on how you significantly decided to improve yourself and got serious. a very good gmat score would certainly support that story. now i'm no master of the mba/grad school world, but i would guess you have to do something else pretty spectacular to complete the bridge from crappy gpa to decent gpa + excellent GMAT to very good mba to ibanking... that is, if there are any ibanks by the time you finish all of this.
too bad you weren't going through the process when our current batch of analysts were going through... they clearly let anyone onto wall street from undergrad... people like edmundo braverman and others. those guys would never make it to the street these days. atleast not in my group
Was it really that much easier? I guess you're right because I go to a non-target and some of the bulge brackets actually recruited at my school 4-5 years ago. Now, no one recruits here (investment banks) except for perhaps a couple of boutiques and MMs.
What group is that, Nutz? Christmas Club savings accounts or used car loans? You'd better quit playing on the Internet. If your branch manager catches you he's going to send you on another Starbucks run for the other tellers.
100 bucks says you're still in school... and probably at a non-target...
Investmentman get in line because your one in a million
I have friends at a target with 3.8s and previous internships that are struggling to get offers so its crazy out there.
You could try either leaving GPA off then explain the turn around during the interview, or you could put it on with a "4.0 since fall 'o8" statement, this would be your best bet
cast a wide net and good luck
It's going to be tough to get into I-Banking now. Very tough. My suggestion would be to take a good look at your career goals - currency trading and I-banking are very different beasts. It's kind of like saying you're not sure if you want to buy a Porsche or a Land Rover... Read as much as possible about the type of work/though that goes into valuation... is it your strong suit?
If you do have difficulty getting in the front office, which I expect you will, consider looking into mid-size, middle market banks' support areas. Yes that means back office... if you find a good fit that offers lateral movement it's possible to move into a revenue generating position within a few years. I'm saying that because I had a very similar experience - 3.3 GPA from a non-target, with a pre-law major. I got my foot in the ops division of a well respected bank, worked my ass off, and essentially networked my way into the line.
Good luck - don't get discouraged and keep your chin up. It's pretty shitty timing to be coming out of college, so if I-Banking is really what you want to do and your heart is in it... I would go to B-School. Your competition is going to be plentiful and fierce coming out with your MBA - lets just say you're not the only college student/recently laid off financier trying to get into B-School.
AG
take the real GMAT, get a near perfect score, and put that on your resume
I feel your difficulties man. Do a through study about the industry, then set out to look for some internships at smaller firms and you might just be able to use your network and experience to land a spot in the big firm later on. If the ibank lifestyle is not for you, there's plenty of other opportunities that can make one successful, ex you like med and took mcat get into med school, or go take cpa etc etc...
Breaking into Investment banking (Originally Posted: 03/16/2013)
I'm starting to get a lot of emails from random people, saying that they're trying to break into the bank where I work. Some lay out steps they've taken so far. Some even ask me for help, breaking in.
Bottom line, should I be concerned? Security is taken very seriously at my firm. A few years ago, I believe we actually had someone who managed to make it inside and stole some client information. Also, our email is monitored.
Is it possible to be implicated in a crime, even if I simply ignored the email? Do I have an obligation to report them? A lot of these people are just college students that I assume are just messing around, but if one of them actually breaks into company property and steals something, can I get in trouble for not having told someone else when the threat was first raised?
Are you retarded? This must be a joke..."Break into Banking" does not literally mean breaking & entering similar to a crime, you idiot. They are asking for help on how to start a career in IB.
I hope you are trolling everyone but this will be one of many comments laughing at you and how you got to work for whichever IB you work at is nothing short of astonishing...
wow.
I do not understand. I usually take subway to work or car service on weekend. If it is very nice out, I may occasionally walk.
Please advise as to why this is astonishing?
and OP i thought this was pretty funny
great troll post!
How to break into Investment Banking (Originally Posted: 09/21/2014)
Hello - I'm seeking information on how to start a career in Investment Banking? Thank you
Hey bevnewbern! Would definitely recommend checking out Mergers and Inquisitions for specific advice to break into i-banking. I haven't used much of WSO's products but from what I've heard, they have relatively decent interview and informational guides.
Breaking into I-Banking (Originally Posted: 04/04/2011)
I'm entering a top 20 MBA program this year and want to get into I-Banking. What advice do you guys have to get an internship for the summer? Are there certain requirements that the banks have to even look at you as a candidate? I really don't care if it's a Goldman or a boutique firm.....pretty much just want to get into banking.
top 20 mba is absolute crap. out of the top 10 a mba is not worth the money. go to jail, do not come out and do not pass go. drop out and try again (go for top 5)
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