I'm a sophomore at a USNWR Top 20 school majoring in math and economics. With a pretty low GPA, I haven't had much luck with getting any summer internships at middle market/boutique investment banks.
The best offer on the table right now is doing research at a Big Oil company...I don't know what I'll get out of it, but I guess it's better than nothing and the name would at least look good on my resume. Not sure what my next steps should be. Should I take the offer now, or scramble trying to look for something more investment/finance related?
I would say keep looking. When exactly is the deadline for you to accept the position?
end of the week...
Does anyone know of any opportunities in banking/corp fin/capital or debt markets that are still hiring? preferably on east coast
If you don't get responses, it's probably because most of us got our internships and aren't looking. But positions are still out there!
Think outside the box. Look past the BB. If their "careers" page has a phone number, call it today. And tomorrow. Email them.
Interns fall through on their commitments and then firms need a replacement. You want to be that intern. You will be that intern.
Worst case scenario: Remember that you're a sophomore, so nobody expects you to have a finance internship. You'll learn something from any job you take, no matter how shitty. Even McDonald's will harden you, and recruiters want that. I worked in a 4-star restaurant as a host/greeter. It was shit, frankly a bit of a "girl job", but I came out of it talking about how I learned to represent the company to thousands of people in a day with minimal fatigue. That helped me secure an S&T internship junior year.
Also consider helping your department profs with research over the summer if it's available. Just think outside the box is the tl;dr.
Would have upvoted you if it were not for your profile name. Great advice.
You're a sophomore - just get some good experience in any field and keep on networking. Plenty of people land SA gigs at BB's without having sophomore banking experience. You'll just need to focus on how to explain why your experience led you to want to get into banking.
how can i make experience in big oil relevant to ib? would i have more luck in s&t since i could perform research on physical trading this summer?
you'd probably be able to spin it pretty well for O&G desks - and I can't tell you how to explain that, you'll have to figure out how to paint your experience into a compelling story
your experience in an oil company can help you land a job in equity research or IBD covering the oil&gas sector. just make sure to have a compelling story to tell :)
Consider the following options depending on your financial constraints and if you don't get any other offer before the deadline for this one: 1. Do the summer internship in the oil company, express your interest in Corp Fin./ Corp Dev. and do a fall internship in their Corp Fin or Corp Dev Department. 2. Potentially do a fall IB or corporate finance internship or a big 4 winter internship. 3. Become a part of several investment and finance organizations at your school and network extensively with alumni.
If nothing works, you could possibly delay your graduation. Do a summer MM internship next summer and the internship at your most preferred bank after your fourth year. (But, that's a last resort, try all of the above first)
If you are interested in doing O&G banking/PE after school then research for a major or big independent would be a pretty cool experience and you'd be able to understand the entire O&G value chain/macro perspective much better than your peers. It looks like from your past posts that you worked at a VC as well, you should be to spin that and this into a pretty solid story as to your ability (from the VC) and interest (research internship) in O&G.
Take the offer, sophomore summer won't make or break you. I didn't even do an internship for mine.
i would have jumped with joy at a Big Oil offer sophomore summer... are you f-ing kidding me? It's absolutely sellable for any Energy/Industrials related desk
Thanks everyone. I just accepted the offer today, and since the internship is only part time, I'm trying to find another part time internship at a PWM or something. What types of assignments should I ask for from my boss? Also, what are some banks with well-known energy/o&g desks?
speaking with knowledge about houston, you can think of just about any of the big guys are here. i know simmons and co, BAML, Goldman, Macquarie, JPMorgan, BMO Harris and a few others have offices here. plenty of other boutiques are here as well
Good for you. Congrats and good call. Barclays has a top desk.
Make sure to get those grades up next year. You don't want to make it easy to reject you.
Get ANY corpfin summer internship (I believe a lot of credit roles are interviewing now) and then get an off-cycle in the fall.
OK...reading subsequent replies, you took it. Good job.
Can I get some more info on some credit roles that are interviewing now? Thanks!
Nope. I just saw some postings while on LinkedIN.
I think the idea of working at Big Oil, doing a fall IB internship, potentially in energy, could be pretty appealing if you spin it correctly.
Define "spin it correctly"?
I guess go in with the intention of starting in Energy IB. Frame your pitch around your resume. You built a general foundation in the Oil markets by working (insert company here), then pitch your skill set and how it puts you ahead in IB. Just my 2 cents. Wouldn't hurt to get your GPA up before the next recruiting season either.
take spot at big oil company, look through their employee database and see who there has ties to IB firms. Get experience and money from research this summer and look for possible on campus or local internships for fall to further build resume before using connections for following summer. Best of luck
What about concurrently doing a part time internship with the big oil internship (which is also part time)? Can anyone direct me to places that might still be hiring for this summer? I'll PM you my location
Big Oil companies have fantastic S&T desks. I'd kill to be at BP in Houston! Those dudes came here wearing comfy polyester polos and straight up said they work next to a dude who's really good at knowing weather patterns & trading based off that. He just bought a McLaren. (Plus no income tax. Can you imagine?)
Bottom line: You're an intern in an overpopulated but lucrative industry, not a BSD in the making. You're owed nothing. Remember that. Be humble. Know thyself.
Calm down.
I'm on the buyside today. Between freshman and sophomore year, I was a lifeguard earning $7/hour. Between sophomore and junior year, I was earning $9/hour at a clearing firm working for a guy who studied at Northern Illinois University (who was a totally awesome boss to be sure).
You need a job. You do not need an internship at GS.
I've probably said this on other threads, but some advice from my college guidance counselor freshman year - this is what you should target in terms of internships:
Post-freshman year summer: Any job Post-sophomore year: Something in your broad field (e.g. finance-related) Post-junior year: The internship you want (e.g. IBD) Post-senior year: Full-time offer you want
I think that's a fair baseline, although you will encounter kids who have previous IB experience competing against you for junior year IB spots. In general, however, most major banks don't offer or offer limited positions for sophomores. I really wouldn't worry if you can't get IB this summer, but take the offer that you think will best position you for ib interviews next year.
That being said, in terms of the timeline, there are still probably internships out there. Small boutiques frequently don't have structured internship recruiting programs or the bandwidth to recruit and push it off. In addition, with fewer deals and inconsistent revenue, a small firm may not have the funds to hire an intern for most of the school year and then will suddenly be able to in late spring. It's a crap shoot, but definitely a possibility. I somehow managed to land an internship my junior year during finals week. If your current offer doesn't explode any time soon, you could definitely still push and then accept that opportunity if you don't find anything else.
Ha, yeah bro, you're from Idaho aka Geed City, USA. Let me rephrase this post so a top tier frat god can actually relate...
Freshman Year: Get a bid to a top tier frat Sophomore Year: Have a dozen slam pieces, and twice as many good lawyers on call (consent is Not Frat) Junior Year: Continue banging freshman girls, they'll think you're really old and wise Senior Year: Take a few intro accounting courses Fifth Year Senior: Pass intermediate microeconomics this time around and then hit one of your rich frat boys' parents up to hand you a god tier job running your own business.
LongIslandBound you've got competition for frat analogies
Clearly you were never in a frat or your fraternity was gay as hell because no one in a fraternity that matters would ever use the term "frat boy"
I worked in O&G my junior summer due to low GPA and lack of interviews. Keep in touch with your network, give them updates on how your work is relevant to banking, and show them you're still hungry. No one will ding you for having a good non-banking opportunity as a soph
OCR finished. No summer internship offers. What now? (Originally Posted: 03/19/2009)
I am a third year looking for summer internships this year, but OCR finished at my semi-target/target school. While I did get first round interviews at a number of different firms, I wasn't able to convert any of them into summer positions. I know that I need to work on my interviewing skills, network, and study harder for the case interviews for full time recruiting.
However, I am worried about this summer. I was given multiple interviews because I have untraditional experience and success in several entrepreneurial ventures, and without any fall-back internship to do, I might just continue to work on those ventures. I didn't cast my net wide enough in this down economy, and it's coming back to haunt me. As of right now, I don't have any other ideas for summer plans that could keep me competitive for full time recruiting in consulting. My plans right now are to continue working on my ventures, network during the summer, and go on a 5 week exchange program to China, study cases, and perhaps take a class.
I know that my entrepreneurial experience is interesting enough to land interviews, but I'm concerned about this summer. I would greatly appreciate any feedback or advice other posters can provide in these challenging economic times. Thank you.
Keep on looking. What else could anyone tell you other than that? You're certainly not the only one in your position, so don't be discouraged. Given your background, I think you need to have an answer to why you are looking for a job at an investment bank or a consulting firm. You need to have a clear goal -- why would you even bother with investment banking if you have had successes in several ventures?
keep working on your "ventures" and start networking with everyone so you'll be in a good place come full time recruiting.
I would suggest you start networking immediately. Although internships start in June/July, people take vacations, come back, have to deal with the economy, etc. and won't be ready to start talking to people til late August to mid-september.
The world has changed. And we must change with it.
Try looking at some other industries. While finance jobs are WAY down (71% fewer openings for seniors graduating in 2009), there are other industries such as government that are still hiring. Some job for the summer is better than no job at all - look for a job in another industry that might have some skills that are applicable/ transferable. This article can give you a better idea of where you might want to look - http://gottamentor.com/viewMyLink.aspx?l=211
Good luck!
try to get something with a big name
P&G, Motorola, Microsoft, you get the idea
I mean I had a big name private wealth GS/ML/UBS internship and it served pretty well for consulting full time interviews
Learn how to interview more effectively. Practice with any contacts you know who have landed internship or ft offers.
Spoon-fed little target aren't you? Ever had to network a day in your life?
No Response, No internship offer, What's next ? How to network at this time ? (Originally Posted: 04/01/2015)
I am graduate student from non-target business school (top50, GPA3.9/4.0). I applied for BB SA online and got no responses, even no 1st round interviews. I guess I was too wrong about only beginning to network after getting interviews. It is already too late when I noticed that I should network before applying for SA. Right now, I am still trying to reach out some alumni. The question about network is that whether should I ask for internship or refer when I talked to alumni? Or I should forget internship and focus on full-time job. I am going to graduate in Dec 2015. Is it possible to get in the BBs when the website says they closed the applications for summer internship. Thank you guys !
i wouldn't sweat it too much with a gpa like that just keep working on it- you'll get something
im in the same boat with you
If you are a graduate student your chances of getting and sa position are slim those are more means for undergrad
So no SA offers. What now? What'd you do? (Originally Posted: 02/07/2008)
For those that had the less-than-ideal experience of not ending up with any SA offers, what did you do?
I'm going to start contacting MMs and boutiques that don't recruit on campus - any tips on what not to do/what to do regarding that?
network, network, network. use your alumni database and reach out to MMs and boutiques in the region you would like to work. dont discount taking a SA in a location that is different than your preferred.
Unfortunate situation. Are you target/non-target? Major? GPA?
Network your arse off. MMs still have positions open, and many boutiques will not even offer formal internships, but if you call and be persistent you can create one for yourself.
If you strike out with that, look to get a job in corporate finance with one of the Big 4, or perhaps an internship with a F100/F500 company with a Corporate Development/Corporate Finance group. I struck out with LEH, UBS, GS, among others junior year, worked in CorpDev at a F500, and ended up getting 5 full-time offers.
All is not lost if you fail to get an SA offer. There are plenty of kids who work in BBs who never did any i-banking before they got their FT offer.
Network your arse off. MMs still have positions open, and many boutiques will not even offer formal internships, but if you call and be persistent you can create one for yourself.
If you strike out with that, look to get a job in corporate finance with one of the Big 4, or perhaps an internship with a F100/F500 company with a Corporate Development/Corporate Finance group. I struck out with LEH, UBS, GS, among others junior year, worked in CorpDev at a F500, and ended up getting 5 full-time offers.
All is not lost if you fail to get an SA offer. There are plenty of kids who work in BBs who never did any i-banking before they got their FT offer.
If I can't find alumni connections at a particular bank or have no idea who works there (or even who HR is), how would I find someone to contact to talk to?
Go travel around the world... Money would be an issue.. but beg and travel.. lol..
Suggestion: Go to China - the olympics!!!
Ling~
Yeah right... and kiss your career in banking good-bye till after B-School. The guys in the a tough spot and probabaly doesn't appreciate the humor.
Use your on-campus recruiting to find all the MM and boutiques you can get a hold of. Find out where people who currently have offers might have gotten boutique experience in the past and use them as a reference to get in contact with a recruiter. Search for every little bank you can find... leave no stone unturned. Worst case scenario, offer to work for free. If you don't get at least a boutique, you're current prospects at banking are pretty much finished.
Then in the fall, take part in FT recruiting and hope for the best. Make sure by the time summer comes you know the technicals COLD. Keep reviewing them on a weekly or bi-weekly basis so they stay fresh in your head. When recruiting season comes, spend a good day thoroughly going through everything. There's only so much tech banks ask and if you're familiar enough, you'll run circles around pretty much all the questions. Spend the majority of your summer PRACTICING your interviewing. When it comes to final rounds, tech is just a threshold, it all comes down to FIT. You get good with fit/interviewing through practice... simple as that.
If you want to break in the industry, stay persistent. Don't let any naysayers try to steer you into other career choices. If you really want this, you'll be satisfied with nothing less. Think about how good it'll feel when you finally do get it.
Other than that, good luck and don't freak out when recruiting season comes around. That can possibly happen when you're that prepared... just don't let it get to your head.
Best of luck.
www.career-accelerator.com is something I registered for and it has helped me find out abour several Associate-level jobs in PE and hedge funds that I otherwise would never have discovered. I sometimes see internship postings in there as well. Check it out and you decide if it is right for you. Given how bad things are out there, I suppose anything that helps me get an advantage is worth it.
No SA offers... what now? (Originally Posted: 01/30/2008)
It was a hellish week and a half. 3.9 Math major at an Ivy. No previous finance experience. Had interviews with GS, MS, CS, Lehman, UBS, BoA. Made it to Superdays for MS and Lehman, but ultimately no offer from both.
What options do I have now in terms of getting a finance internship and using that for FT positions?
Thanks.
Not your fault kid, it's the market. Look at some MMs right away or boutiques. it's just a summer job
Besides these...have you tried other banks such as JPM, Wachovia, Deutsche? Check out the Vault top 50 banking employers...apply to ones you haven't applied...
Other ones that I would go for: Duff & Phelps and Deloitte Corporate Finance
Besides investment banking...ever thought about consulting??
keep applying.
What would you say was your biggest hurdle?
As mentioned above, take a hard look at the MM and boutiques. If that fails, you can try consulting or give PWM, S&T and other areas a shot. Just do something this summer thats somewhat related to banking if thats the end goal. I have seen kids get into banking with unrelated experience but that who knows what FT recruiting will be like given the current environment.
There are other banks out there, they're just not as prestigious. Getting a banking job even at a MM or boutique will give you a HUGE boost when applying for FT positions, because almost anyone with "Investment Banking Analyst" on their resume will get interviews.
Otherwise, any finance or business experience you can get will be a plus... consulting, PWM, S&T, anything really, even some ops role related to finance.
Many MMs will continue recruiting throughout the year so you still have a shot. I would definitely focus on banks as your first priority here.
I have Investment Banking Analyst on my resume at a bulge bracket from last summer (as a sophomore). Only have been granted one interview so far... You probably won't be in the same situation since you are from an Ivy. Good luck.
Vanderbilt (semi-target T20), Junior: CumGPA 3.1, EconMaj 3.3, FinanceMin 3.7. 2 wealth management internships with wachovia, 1 last summer back home (fort worth, tx) and 1 last semester here in nashville, tn.
I know that my low gpa is what kept me from getting interviews at BB IBD but thought the internships would help me, at least with Wachovia. Now I am looking for MM and boutiques but I realize some may be just as hard as BB. Any ideas of ones I stand a chance in? I would be willing to travel to any major city in the US (NYC, SF, CLT, DAL, HOU, CHI, ATL, BOS, etc)
Also, I thought consulting was just as hard as BB IBD; but I don't know alot about consulting, the only one that recruits here is Bain since Bill Bain was a vandy grad.
Since not too many MM or boutiques recruit here, I have no idea what their recruiting schedule is like. Does anyone have any experience with SA or internships with them? Would it be worth it cold calling/emailing a ton of them, i.e. is it too late?
Im sure if worse comes to worse I could stay here over the summer and go back to my wealth management internship with Wachovia. Any thoughts?
Thanks!
I would try ALL the MMs as you said. Also look at corporate finance at F500s, corporate development, etc. I wouldn't go back to PWM because honestly, 2 summers in PWM is probably more attractive than 3 - you really would not be helping your chances by doing it again.
agree with the above poster. do not discount boutiques or middle market firms, particularly for the summer analyst experience.
The most important thing is to get some good experience this summer that you can put your resume that will aid you in your FT recruitment process. Whether is MM/botique IB, consulting, or any other finance related work experience that you can use.
An MM/botique is definately worth looking at. I had an internships at one this past summer and the amount of extra responsibility they throw on you works wonders in a FT interview.
I've noticed that this seems to be common for myself and other quant applicants. We get all the first rounds but are discriminated against during interviews. Banks seem to have preference for jock/wasp types. Really frustrating.
Blaming everyone else for your mishaps will not take you very far in life. Figure out how to better yourself as an applicant and quit the whining.
Are you sure you're discriminated against or just don't perform as well?
CraftyDragoon,
Quant = Poor People Skills? Jock/Wasp = Great People Skills? Poor People Skills = Bad Fit? Bad Fit = Discrimination?
physicx - you definitely seem to have the stats/qualifications to land you initial interviews. I'm sure you look amazing on paper. Without a doubt, you must be very smart. What do you think held you back during the interviews?
This really is crazy how the market is really effecting everyone this much. Im starting to see people being rejected that a year ago were a shoe in for atleast 1 offer. I wonder if the market has just become super saturated in terms of total applicants. For people to get rejected with these qualifications that must mean that IBD & S&T have both really balooned in popularity in recent years. Is anyone else picking up on this relationship. People that 5 years ago would have taken a F500 job are now really interested in IBD & S&T its almost like the 1980s and bond trading all over again.
Just my random rants about the psychological underpinnings associated with the current job market.
slickmac, how can you only get one interview when you did a BB ibanking internship as a sophomore? I find this really hard to believe, I dont care how bad the market is right now. Are you just applying online?
mm banks.
depending on your ivy, you'll have to grind and track them down - don't always recruit on campus.
sharpen the resume and act fast before they are inundated with requests.
Everyone keeps throwing out the terms MM and boutiques. Can someone actually give us a prospective list of some MM and boutiques IBs that can be contacted?
here is a thread that is stickied at the top of the iBanking Bullpen Forum that has boutiques from various regions:
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/regional-boutiques
hope that helps.
To be completely honest, I don't think it's the market at all. I really think it's the caliber of candidates that visits WSO. There is an adverse selection effect going on, where only people completely unknowledgable come and post seeking (and, for whatever reason, giving) advice on an internet message board. People who know a bit about recruiting don't visit the site. Thus, all these posts complaining about the market provide a very 1-sided view on the subject.
Flame me all you want, but I'm going to put this out there: -I've had over 10 people send me their resume for review, and I've found all 10 to commit the most elementary mistakes that equate an auto-ding... not just elementary, but elementary AND also unmissable (i.e. 70% of the page is white space. Several of these people were Ivy students w/ 3.5+ -At my superdays, almost all of the other candidates had multiple prospects (either many other superdays, or offers already in hand). How can these people be so successful in such a difficult market? -I personally have not had much difficulty with SA recruiting (FT was a different story), and I am, by far, not the most qualified candidate on this board (mid-range GPA, non-target, no blue-chip brand names on my resume). I am probably better informed on what qualities banks seek than many other people (based on having gone through the process multiple times) and I am able to demonstrate a strong candidacy in interviews. Nonetheless, my stats are definitely weaker than many posters who are constantly getting rejected.
The people who actually seem to "know the game" seem to be doing okay. As I recall, Ranger has many offers in hand... and I don't think he's the only one.
As brutal as that sounds, I think there's some truth to that.
To add to my previous post, when I mentioned the other kids I met at superdays, they were not all target-kids either, so please don't play the non-target card. Schools represented at my superday today included: BU, Emory, Morehouse, Babson, Villanova, several other schools that I've never heard of... in addition to the usual suspects.
this may sound untrue to quite a few of you, but your major does matter! I spoke to some people at senior levels at BBs and they told me that they would much rather hire people who are finance or business majors and have a great interest in those fields.
the market definitley has some effect
b what do you think made you do so well in interviews?
b that's some good advice to kids here.
but why are you so confident, and what have you done when you are faced with a question you can't answer. i'm sure you got brainteasers, etc
"this may sound untrue to quite a few of you, but your major does matter! I spoke to some people at senior levels at BBs and they told me that they would much rather hire people who are finance or business majors and have a great interest in those fields." .............................................................................................. The part that sounds true is that your major counts for proving interest. But if you walk into a superday interview and blow them away, no one will give a fuck what subject you took 30 credits in. It doesnt matter if its private equity, banking, quant trading - u can do a philosophy major, nail the interview, and get the job.
Your major doesn't matter when you make it to the interview but before that it supposedly does. Choice between 3.9 Finance and 3.9 Math with everything else equal and had one to choose?
did u mean to use the verb "interview"?
i am sorry, i meant to use interview. Not hire.
I'll admit that the top schools have more competition within themselves, but you guys really need to hustle. There are plenty of MM banks that would like an Ivy or Vandy student.
I got to a sub 40th ranked school, and like b, have not had any real problems with recruiting. I have 2 top MM offers, and have gotten interviews at several BBs(GS,ML,LEH,CITI,UBS,JPM,LAZ) and top boutiques. Been only rejected once, and to be honest, feel pretty good about my prospects with rest of the BBs.
That said, I had to work my tail off since late October just to talk to alumni and to get these interviews. You guys already look great on paper (unless your resume is retarted, then you have bigger problems), you just need to hustle a bit more.
Sorry about that... I answered my own question by looking at one of your other threads.
Thank you for the list link, I have been putting together my own list, and missed many of those.
No summer BB offer.. what now? (Originally Posted: 02/02/2011)
So.. after 3 years of preparing for IBD at BB hoping to follow many mentors into the industry, the SA recruiting process is over and i've not received an offer anywhere. resume is all finance specific, from ivy, good gpa, lots of interviews, interviews went like chatting but no final offers.
If IBD is eventually where I want to be.. what should i do now? Feeling very sad and hopeless since most FT recruit from SA class. Would love to hear any advice... thanks!
Mod Edit: Duplicate thread. Closed. Go to No BB SA IBD offer.. what to do now?
get to a MM or boutique bank for the summer. don't jump to the conclusion that you can't get a FT offer from a BB. just keep padding that resume, learn as much as you can and leverage a solid banking internship into a BB FT. you have still have one more go, so don't get discouraged.
There are other banks besides BB that are also quite prestigious. Lazard, Evercore, Blackstone CV Partners, Greenhill, PWP.... Did you try any of those?
What about MM? Cowen, Stifel, Savvian, Piper, Harris Williams, JMP, etc.
Cast your net wide. There's more out there than just BBs. You can do an SA stint at one of those places and then if you get an offer you can leverage that during FT recruiting. Lots of people started at smaller places and transitioned to a BB after a year or two or after b-school. Others ended up liking the smaller place so much that they just stayed. This is not the end of the world unless you make it the end of the world.
Also, having an all finance background can hurt sometimes if it makes you seem like a boring person. Not sure that's what happened here, but it's just something to think about.
Oops looks like my post and tmtbanker's ended up giving a lot of the same advice but, yeah, just do what we said. Time to sack up and get to work. You still have time to turn things around.
No BB SA IBD offer.. what to do now? (Originally Posted: 02/02/2011)
So.. after 3 years of preparing for IBD at BB hoping to follow many mentors into the industry, the SA recruiting process is over and i've not received an offer anywhere. resume is all finance specific, from ivy, good gpa, lots of interviews, interviews went like chatting but no final offers.
If IBD is eventually where I want to be.. what should i do now? Feeling very hopeless since most FT recruit from SA class. Would love to hear any advice... thanks!
That sucks man. I'd recommend you start reaching out to boutiques since they tend to have less structured internship recruitment timelines.
This is not the end of the world. You can still spin a solid boutique internship into a good shot at FT MM/BB.
Thanks for the kind words. I would like to stay in the new york city area, do you have any recommendations on which firms to reach out to? I know there are a lot of boutiques/MM around the place but.. where to start?
Hmmm. Don't know NY too well (based in the southeast), but there are TONS of boutiques in NYC. One perk about interning at a boutique is that if they like you, you can sometimes keep interning part-time during the school year.
The M&I Networking Ninja Toolkit has a good list of firms nationwide, there is also a huge thread somewhere on here listing boutique banks.
I'm even worse - BB s&t, boutique M&a internship, coldcalled all last semester...over 2000 emails sent...spoke to 100 contacts...10 resume forwards... One interview...no offer. Frickin brutal.
What really? Now I'm really really scared... :(
Please post your resume. Thanks!
I think Ive been very unlucky thus far - it's okay I'm going to med school. That might or might not be a joke...
I would say reach out to your interviewers or contacts and see if you can get some feedback regarding your interviews. If you have had multiple interviews and no offer perhaps there is something causing this pattern. If you can indentify what may or may not be holding you back, it can help you in future interviews. I've also heard from multiple reputable sources that this year is very competitive for SA positions so it could just be bad luck as well. Keep you're head up, you may be down but certainly not out.
aah that sucks.. I was hopeful that they would starting recruiting a lot this year cuz crisis is almost over! Why is the SA class so small?
From my understanding it's more a matter of the class being very talented. I was told directly that banks are seeing more and more resumes for summer analyst positions with direct prior banking experience. Applicants have a greater amount of relevant work experience making it that much harder to distinguish who gets the interviews/offers
guys so i just got an offer from one of the BBs that I thought was no hope (no call back after final round for 2 days). Thanks for all your help and support && never stop believing..
Congrats man hope it works out for you
You had a final round and gave up after 2 days....get a grip.
cuz some friends heard back already but i didn't get call til 2 days later..
Agreed. Some people don't handle this process very well.
Ya, agree with HFF, you were overreacting for sure...
And come on...you have been preparing for 3 years? Have you had any fun in college?
same thing, looking for BB s&t sa
prior banking/trading experiences, thousands of cold emails, spoke to hundreds of people in BBs, one interview so far, haven't heard back yet...
i'm still networking but will give up in March...
same here... i got several BB s&t sa first round interviews, but haven't been called back for second round. (i had a s&t sa experience my sophomore summer) I must be doing something wrong at the interviews...
does me being an international student make my chances much harder...?? i still have DB first round..so fingers crossed
from observation of # of people getting second rounds & offers.. it's becoming increasingly difficult...
Your guys scare the hell out of me thinking I can do this
Semi-target school junior. No offer for summer. What now? (Originally Posted: 02/13/2011)
So I go to a semi-target, with little previous experience (part time intern in a pe). Applied through career service for some banking and Asset Management positions, had a few interview, and did not get second round. What should I do next? I have applied to all the banks that I could found on their websites, but it seems that most of the banks recruit from their target schools' OCR...
Any advice will be appreciated!!
network?
I tried during winter break to send out emails to alums, but did not get any reply.. I will keep trying. Thanks!
Start cold-calling and emailing smaller/regional boutiques.
cast a WIDE net, something is bound to fall into it...
But don't pm the members on WSO with a start begging for a job because I do not think that will go well for you.
network in a manner befitting your username
If you're a "semi-target" school as you put it then they obviously look to your school for a small number of people to impress them. They were your words and not mine...but if it hasn't worked out for you yet then you are doing something wrong. When you email these guys make sure you are very respectful but not a douche bag. Ask someone that went through the process what the emails should look like and see if you can get on the phone with these guys. Know your shit too though...the target schools have it easy because they get mostly fit interviews while they are going to expect you to have invested time to understanding what they do. Ask questions, be interested. Don't tell them you're interested in getting a job. Use words like..."I'm interested in learning more about the bank and what you do". People like to talk about themselves. Step your game up.
The first step is searching WSO for similar forums.
If you can't do this then you don't have the research skills needed to overcome your sitch
*I will add that you should as one other member stated cast a larger net. Include insurance companies, F500, regional boutiques, commercial lending, and asset/private wealth management firms. Any internship > no internship
Thank you very much people! I am an international student so there are a lot less options out there for me.. I will start networking again and see how it goes. Really appreciate your inputs!
No Summer Internship Offers...any advice? (Originally Posted: 02/18/2015)
Hey WSO,
Junior, from a non-target. Managed to get a few BB superdays for ER, but now I'm closing in on the end of the 2nd week and haven't heard from any of them. Pretty heartbroken, seeing as I really wanted to do research and the bigger banks were the ones with the programs. Any advice as to what I should be doing now? I'm assuming I should go after the smaller shops, but honestly I had been spending all my time networking into the BBs that I dont even know how to start that process. Thanks for the help everyone.
Network hard and start making contacts at smaller shops, also apply for related internships. I'd look at corp fin, consulting, ratings agencies and corporate banking/IB.
You think I'd have a better shot at those than research? Are they more numerous?
double post
IB and consulting are probably as or more competitive in some senses, obviously it depends on the shop. Corp fin, corporate banking and ratings agency positions should be easier. All with the exception of ratings agencies should have more slots.
Advice Needed- International student, No IBD SA offers (Originally Posted: 03/23/2015)
I am in kind of a tough spot. I'm a non target, terrible gpa (3.1 due to special circumstances) and an international student: the deadly trio. I have a few internship experiences, non IB.
I networked my way into a couple BB ib interviews, made final rounds but no SA offer, now I have nothing. Going forward my options are: try to get a boutique IB internship, go back home and get into a brand name bank and intern there (non IB, commercial banking) or continue with current internship (non IB, more VC/Advisory) and keep networking (this is constant in all cases but harder to pull off from another country half way across the world as I prefer face to face rather than email/phone).
I also have to keep in mind that I need to work for a company that sponsors or I won't be able to stay. This is why I'm hesitant to work at boutiques as they don't sponsor (given I get an internship at one).
And so I had a few questions I was hoping to get some advice on: 1) Which of the three above should I do this summer? 2) I am also open to going into corp. fin or other "normal" roles for companies that sponsor. Are corp. fin roles easier or more difficult to get at the FT level? Is it possible to network your way into corp.fin (dumb question I know) and if so, who should I reach out to? 3) How difficult is the transition from corp.fin to IB? (I'm assuming MBA is the doorway?)
Thanks for the help.
I would aim for boutique if you want to keep networking in person.
If ib isn't gonna work out for you, and you need sponsorship, perhaps aim for big 4 corporate finance and try to lateral after a year or two?
Yes, that is most likely plan b for me. About corp finance, would a lateral from Big 4 be easier than perhaps from other f500s, like GE Capital? Or is it the same?
No summer offer... extending a year? (Originally Posted: 08/12/2008)
Unfortunately, for various reasons, I was unable to secure a summer offer. To be honest, I'm crestfallen and really feel beat down. The "why no offer" question is something I know I'll have to deal with if I decide to recruit full-time. My question is, would it be a viable option to extend my graudation by a semester and recruit for SA positions again in January?
Would it be plausible/favorable to say... I realized I wasn't intersted in working for a certain group / location and it became clear after a couple weeks to them that this was the case -- or whatever answer I decide to use... -- followed by saying I had always wanted to study abroad, and made the decision to get more experience (hopefully pick up a boutique internship in the fall), and use the extra year to go abroad and wait for the market conditions improve.
I'm just weighing my options that would maximize the liklihood of me ending up wiht a job, be it in 2009 or 2010...
i am in the exact same situation and am going to have trouble dealing with the no offer question. i think i'm going to get a masters, but am interested in hearing about this as well
interested as well, thanks
I think the mistake you made was letting it known to your group you didn't want to be there long-term. Even if you thought that, you should've pretended to be happy all the time and tried to secure the offer. At least then you could've shopped around.
That being said, it's not the end of the world. It's still a great experience builder and is impressive on the resume. Call up MM banks and see if you can set up interviews, or use contacts at other BBs to get an offer. You're in a situation a lot of kids are, try to play it off like it was more market conditions than anything else (and it may have been part of the reason). If you can have someone vouch for you as a good worker at any other BB, that'd be huge.
I think putting off work for a year would be pretty extreme. If you have a good GPA, went to a good school, and did pretty well as an intern, you should be able to find somewhere (whether BB, MM, boutique, F500 CorpFin, or Big 4 TAS/M&A advisory).
This thread is note useless. It centers around the idea of extending graduation by a year or look towards a nother summer... Haven't seen much material out there covering it.
More input appreciated. Gnoes3pc, can you PM me please?
untitled123 is just repeating the message - "this thread is useless" - on most message boards...just for kicks or something :/
maybe he wants the book.
is a mistake. So you didn't get an offer. It's not the end of the world. You're still better off than 90% of the candidates I've interviewed for full-time recruiting who have no ibanking experience. Sure you'll be asked why you didn't get an offer but you can fluff your way around it, especially this year where many will be in your position.
At the end of the day, if I believe you learned a few things during your internship and are smart I wouldn't hold not getting an offer against you. Some of the better analysts I've seen did interships at other banks and did not get offers.
I'm graduating in april. If I'm right, I am not eligible for the SA positions right ? Do you have to be a returning student to apply for the SA position ?
Please don't steal the thread, but to answer your question, no, you are not eligible for an SA position unless you are a returning student.
Frankly it's a stupid idea. If banking / trading / whatever is not meant to be, it's not meant to be. No reason to delay life or the inevitable (of not working in finance).
You might have a chance to apply for summer analyst positions next summer (a very small chance, since people don't usually take super-seniors into SA programs). Even if they do interview you, you still have to answer the, "Did you get an offer last summer?" question. There is no avoiding that.
You need to figure out why you DIDNT get the offer for your own good... you need to know why you didn't get the offer and figure out if the reason for that is a bigger issue in the long run, and one that won't be solved by delaying a year.
NEVER lose your BlackBerry www.conveniencesoftware.com
I don't see why you would not extent a year if you can afford it; perhaps you could do a co-terminal master's degree; perhaps you could get another major or two minors, or pick up/polish a language, or go abroad to an interesting school (Oxbridge/Sorbonne/ U of Costa Rica...)
If you can afford it and not go into more loans, why not?
Another option is heading to grad school. A two-year master's in (something) will nicely ride the down-market.
That said, notice the state of the markets. You may not be able to get another internship; so if you want to go into finance anytime soon, your best bet might be hustlin' and getting an offer somewhere.
There are no guarantees you'll be able to break into finance in the future.
what to do if no SA offer? (Originally Posted: 06/10/2008)
Currently an SA working at in IBD at a middle market boutique on the West Coast. Unlikely I'm going to get a return offer for SA next year, given market and all. What if next year, when I'm interviewing for a junior year SA position with East Coast bulge brackets I lie and say I did get a return offer? How will those east coast BBs know?
Don't worry man, you're gonna be a great investment banker. You're already learning to B-S!
Alphaholic - you've never stepped foot in a bank in your life. Mary - you're not going to get a return offer, not because of market conditions, but because you are a total tool who doesn't deserve a return offer, or a chance to work in banking at all.
HAHA.
Never, ever lie about something like this in an interview. It's too easy to check. If you know you won't get an offer to return, then make sure that it's not due to performance. Upon leaving, ask your boss for feedback and see if he/she is willing to speak highly of you to other employers. So if that question comes up next yr, you can say something along the lines of, "Due to market conditions, I didn't get a return offer, but the firm was pleased with my performance. Feel free to contact XXXX about my time there."
why is that even a question? i feel that a bank, especially a BB, would have the resources to check up on someone's history. granted, they probably dont have the time.
outside of potentially getting busted for a lie, i would feel embarrassment if i got a call after a seemingly good interview saying i am no longer a candidate due to the validity of my statements at the interview. dont know how much blacklisting goes on, but its definitely a shot at your credibility i would think.
Taking an extra year due to no SA offer (Originally Posted: 07/13/2008)
Let's say someone does not get a SA return or full time offer. I've heard of some people taking an extra year to do another major/minor to reinterview for SA/full time positions.
Why don't people consider 1 year masters programs instead? Isn't it a great way to hide the fact that you didn't get an offer? Also, it could marginally help your application, rather than raise questions when you take the extra year of undergrad.
McIntire at UVA offers a nice 1-yr program which is particularly attractive for science undergrad majors. Plus it would (should) get you great access to alum and recruiting.
wondering the same thing,.... additional advice necessary
Why don't you try consulting M/B/B for 2yrs, MBA and join as an associate in banking? Market won't pick anyway till 2011..
haha... if it were only that easy...
thanks for the responses, nystateofmind you made me feel better yay
Why don't you try consulting M/B/B for 2yrs, MBA and join as an associate in banking? Market won't pick anyway till 2011..
Would highly recommend the 1 year masters option. This solely depends on your ability to secure a SA spot next year. You won't have any trouble interviewing, will be more seasoned, and the banks love the added maturity.
No SA offers! What should I do now? (Originally Posted: 02/05/2011)
Ok. I had couple superdays with BB's S&T division. But, I got rejection letter from both firms.
What should I do now? Is there anyone who had similar experience as me? Any adive you can give?
Thanks!
I'm in same boat, had 3 superdays, no offers. Not giving up.
There are still quite a few firms out there that haven't finished their processes. Keep your chin up and work your ass off to get more opportunities before the season closes.
I blew one on tuesday and had one on friday, just try to get a feeling on what you did wrong, improve and keep on going. I know how you feel, go walk, smoke a cigarrette (my poison), get a drink, or some chocolate, your choice watch some tv to forget about it for a while and then back to the field.
I blew two already but not giving up...keep working hard and try ft in the fall
No BB IBD SA offers, what do? (Originally Posted: 02/16/2012)
I know there are many threads like this and I don't want to beat a dead horse but I would like to know what you guys think of the options I have. I did not get a IBD SA offer this year (junior) but I want to be able to position myself as best I can for full time recruiting this fall.
My options are M&A at NY boutique, cap market at MM, or a finance role at F500. I want to ideally transition into a BB IBD full time gig this fall. On top of choosing what to do this summer, is there anything I should be changing from a networking perspective. I have networked with a few analysts for SA recruiting but should I be focusing on networking with more senior bankers for full time?
Thanks.
M&A at the boutique.
You should be meeting as many people as you can, but focus on 2nd year analysts. They are the ones who pick resumes most of the time.
I would say to definitely network with full time guys at the banks you want to work at.
Boutique M&A.
Lmao, there is at least one or two threads a week on this topic. Just use the search button and see what they did. There is no magical formula to overcoming not getting offers.
I agree with the M&A at a boutique.
Interesting position - NO BB SA offers (need advice) (Originally Posted: 02/05/2013)
.
When you say "you realized you weren't good enough this year" do you mean that you didn't even apply, or does that mean that you went thru the process and did everything you could but were unsuccessful.
I went through the process but was unsuccessful. Did a few superdays but didn't get the offers. I think it was my lack of confidence in some, and I wasn't super sharp on some technical (acc) questions. I have learned from my weaknesses though and will be more prepared come next year.
what's your opinion on what i should do?
If you can still get an internship in IBD at a middle market or boutique that will pay, I would do that. I wouldn't go Big 4, that's pointless. It's up to you whether you want to try to recruit for full time right away or if you want to delay. As long as you tell the story the way you want to and you have a decent rationale, people won't care.
thanks for your advice rufio.. ideally though, since its easier to compete with kids in their junior year and having the IBD experience i am opting for delaying.. just not sure about the rationale..
anymore advices people? looking to hear other people's perspective..
MM IBD and then recruit for FT in the fall, if you don't like what you get then stay another semester and recruit for SA in the winter.
you say you have no offers on the table though and MM's (I'm assuming) are done with SA recruiting or finishing up so better hop on that. Also big 4 is probably all wrapped up with their recruiting
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