Advice for College Freshman
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Focus on getting an internship this summer in whatever field you're most interested in going in. That's the best thing you can be doing right now
Get good grades. Get good grades in your required classes, get good grades in your electives, get good grades period. Don't be like me and think "I know I'm smart, who the hell cares?"
Take leadership roles. It's not enough to join organizations. If you go greek, get on the exec board. If you join student government, become a committee chair. If you join an investment club, try to run for president. Anyone can sign a piece of paper and put a bullet point on your resume. Not everyone becomes a leader and makes an actual impact.
Get drunk a lot, have sex even more, go to football games (fuck Alabama) work out at the free campus gym, play video games or watch netflix all day instead of studying guilt-free from time to time, dominate intramural sports, etc. If you're a super type A person who thinks this is horrifying or beneath you, then most people in the real world will think you're a weirdo. The important thing is all of this is learning social skills and making friends, both of which are essential to success in life. You might be able to be a great analyst as a Aspergers-ridden nerd with a 4.4 GPA who reads math books for fun, but you'll never be CEO.
Start networking early. Networking isn't handing out business cards or resumes. Networking isn't corny palm pressing and cocktails with nametags. Find someone who is impressive to you, offer to buy them coffee (they'll always pay anyhow), and ask them questions about themselves. People love talking about themselves and what they say will actually help you. They'll come out thinking you were really impressive even though they talked 90% of the time. You will make good contacts and by the time you need them, you'll have known these people for years.
What advice would you give your freshman or sophomore self? (Originally Posted: 09/08/2015)
University is already under way or about to start up for almost all schools, in the U.S. at least. With recruiting season under way and a new wave of aspiring monkeys, if you could give your undergrad freshman or sophomore self advice, what would you say? The advice can be about recruiting, classes you should've taken, internships, girls, whatever.
Start studying constantly. Aim for a 4.0 GPA. Get a better internship earlier (I highly recommend looking for a search fund for freshman/sophomores -- perfect for them to get good experience and connections early). Really just overall get my stuff together and be a bit more serious.
"Learn to use the search function"
I'll swing at a different approach.
Go have fun, it's still very early, especially if you're a freshman. Do your best to maintain a 3.25 GPA minimum but go enjoy what university has to offer you. I promise you it'll be the fastest 4 years of your life and before you know it, it's over. I sacrificed my college years like crazy in order to obtain what I wanted career wise. I don't regret it one bit and I'd do it again BUT I also don't deny that I wish I had been a bit more balanced.
One underrated piece of advice is to try dipping your toes in the entrepreneurial waters. I can argue that there is no better time to start a business than when you are in college, considering how many resources are available to you and that you still have a decent amount of free time. I'm not saying that you should go out and build a business based on the first idea that comes to your head, but at least consider going down the path of entrepreneurship. Who knows, it may end up being very lucrative for you.
Learn to program (VBA/Python) Take CFA Level 1 ASAP Don't wait until Senior year to do all your networking
Be driven, but be human. I've seen many driven kids who come across as robots in a proper conversation. Have hobbies, and do something that makes you unique. The people you'll come across in finance (and this applies to higher levels as well, i.e. VP/MD) are humans. The ability to connect with people, and form proper relationships rather than coming across as a server is very important in this industry.
Engage with your professors to see if there are projects or research for potential employers that might need part time help that could guide you into early internships. Also, as mentioned above, you are in a perfect situation to be doing something entrepreneurial...lots of free time, access to tons of resources, fellow students willing to work for free, etc.
Go to happy hour in college because in the real world you probably won't be getting off early enough to see one
Time Management. Learn it. Love it. Master it.
You can and should easily be able to get a 3.7+ GPA while partying hard. Use your days effectively - study in between classes. If you treat the school week like a job - i.e. go on campus do your reading/studying during the day - you will be able to have any social life you want. It's fairly simple yet very rarely executed.
Assuming you do the above, make sure you party and meet lots of girls. It will never be as easy again.
Any advice for a current freshman at a non-target looking to go into IB, HF, or PWM?
Get out of your comfort zone as soon as possible. So much of the college experience is trying new things (not necessarily drugs etc) and joining clubs and going on random weekend road-trips with new friends. You grow much faster and get much more out of it all when you open yourself up to things you may not have considered before. Talk to people working in the industry you're looking at going into after graduation and really make sure they're the kind of people you can see yourself being and liking.
Gangster Putin Is pretty on spot.
I mostly did the partying during my Freshman/Sophomore year and there are no regrets on that part. But if I was to advise myself - "dude, just spend that 1 hour a day studying to get the A's" is all I have to say.
Just as an addendum to what others have been saying, yes, you should focus on getting good grades, but college honestly isn't particularly hard (unless you are a quant major, and therefore, shit out of luck.)
Easy.
That last point about not getting distracted should be clarified a bit. When you're that young and that independent, you want to explore new things and do new things. You'll be looking to attach significance to things. You might skip studying because you feel bad about a breakup with your girl, or you might want to take an easier class than one that would really help you simply because you want to take other classes with your friends.
Those things are human and you'll do enough of them without thinking about this. But those times that you're conscious of it and when you think "man, that guy from WSO mentioned this might happen," you'll know what to do. Stick to sound principles in life and the smaller decisions become easy.
Bang girls from as many different ethnicities as possible.
Transfer to UVA.
Be considerate, be nice to others. Many self-confident people were dicks when they were younger (guilty) and learn the hard way. I'd say the people whose pride I've really hurt keep me up at night more than any other memories, especially the women. And of course, being a dick gets you burned out of many networks very fast, no matter how cool you think bankers find Gordon Gekko. The effect is felt over decades, not weeks.
Optimize for uncomfortable, unfamiliar experiences to uncover your unknown unknowns. Go do your internship abroad. Date immigrants and understand from their family their point of view. Take the riskier, harder option whenever possible. Travel but not to see the sights. A lot of the time these choices are forks in the road and the riskier path leads to a more interesting life.
Don't date long term at university. Well, YMMV, but you're not a complete person yet, far from it, which means there's a high probability she/he will leave you a few years after graduation. Dating is one of the best ways to meet people outside your comfort zone and social networks (especially with things like Tinder). The other thing is the dating pool is way better outside college, particularly for men, particularly abroad, than in.
Talking of which (for the men out there) bulking up and getting lean is the single best way to get a lot of women because most college women are just looking for that, so do strength training with the sole aim of looking bigger. This also makes you seem more confident and people at work will treat you with more respect - physical bulk just.. impresses people subconsciously.
Actually both of the above fit in a wider category of "remorse, no regrets". Better to make a mistake than regret not trying. Regrets just bite you for years. Remorse? The biting pain of shame dims after mere weeks...
Skip the university societies crap and focus on grades, they are so important at the start of your career and remain relatively important later for most companies, even if they pretend it's not the case. If you must do extra curricular stuff, favour the intellectual activities (e.g. Oxford or Cambridge Union, no idea what you guys have in the US) over sports; the former is impossible to find once you leave, the latter easily available for very little money.
Learn from textbooks, not just lecture notes. In fact, search on Amazon for the best textbook by reviews, and buy that (or get it online, usually available for free). Many profs don't really care about teaching undergrads and do it to tick a box on their contract and collect their salary. Also, many undergrads just don't really care beyond getting good enough grades to get a well paying job, when the purpose of university is expanding your intellectual ability and learning stuff in depth. I've forgotten my 4 years, virtually everything in them, because I just crammed for exams and I regret not spending more time on it because I have to relearn a lot of stuff now!
Learn the bases - mathematics, statistics, physics if studying engineering, etc. - because they are often taught incredibly badly or not at all. E.g. knowing basic statistical learning will be infinitely helpful when dealing with econometrics. Pure mathematics - set theory, maybe even category theory - will actually "make sense" of a lot of subjects later.
Learn at least the bases of programming. At least SQL (the relational model as per Codd and Date, and how to apply it in a modern relational open source DB like Postgres, which is the best), the linux command line (sed, awk, etc.) and one scripting language that can also be used with data (Python, R, etc.). That is probably the one thing that would have sped the hell out of my early career, and it's really easy - much easier than learning set and group theory properly, or linear algebra. If you like the subject, majoring in computer science (which is different from "making websites") makes you very desirable in a lot of industries and teaches a lot of applied maths type concepts which are interesting and useful.
Don't focus on stuff. Nice suits, food, cars, will come soon enough and don't taste anywhere near as good as they look when you get used to them. Nothing, literally nothing, beats intellectual satisfaction and productivity. Also be aware that nice things - even sex - are drugs, and addictive. The cost is mostly opportunistic - this is time not spent at the top of your game and life is short. Modern drugs - including dating, and food - are incredibly powerful and easy to get addicted to. I understand tee-totallers much better now. You'll probably binge for periods of your life and learn this the hard way.
Enjoy being around tons of smart people who are different - socially, and in interests - to you. It will literally never happen again, not with such a diverse and intelligent bunch. You can move to new countries but it will always land you in a homogeneous cultural group (e.g. bankers in London, tech people in Hong Kong, whatever your new network is linked to). That's the most enjoyable part of college, not the mindless partying and dating, but you have to seek it out.
If you are surrounded by people who share your political views, go check out the meets of the opposite folks. Go understand what makes a hippie tick (although I never could) rather than mindlessly conform to the Tory or Republican social gatherings. Unfortunately the older you get the more important ideas get, and your access to such people just dwindles. I had communist friends (genuine, committed communists that would have been picked up by McCarty) and I do not anymore, because we both realized the importance of ideas and what our mutual values said about the other (I profoundly detest communism because it is the idea that individuals should be enslaved by the state).
Avoid rationalizing. Being aware of one's fallibility is the single most important predictor of success (although sometimes it looks like being an arrogant retard is great for being promoted over and over again). Students often pick a social group (like WSO - mostly "bankers") and then rationalize the views of said group as being the only truth which should not be questioned, and learn the arguments to justify that position. Today's universities, particularly in America, really go for groupthink (think political correctness gone wild) and avoiding ideas that challenge the status quo, and that is really sad, but you don't need to follow in those footsteps. It doesn't mean there is no objective truth (the favorite BS quote from the philosophy majors) but it does mean you need to make an effort to get closer to it. Your views aren't the objective truth.
Funny thing is many wise people did tell me most of this and I ignored them completely. There's a saying that goes along the lines of "idiots don't learn, normal people learn from experience, and geniuses from the experience of others" and it is very true. So, lastly, learn from the experience of others.
How? Read tons of biographies (also apparently Elon Musk's strategy). Pick people in fields unrelated to yours - so not traders, not bankers, not even J.P. Morgan - and read about their life, preferably written by themselves. Choose the best people - the Nobel prize winners, the founders of elite military units all over the world, great founder-CEOs like Carnegie or Bill Gates. How do they think, how did they get where they are, how do they exploit opportunities and luck? That was the single biggest source of learning for me. Fiction can also be interesting as a vehicle for good ideas, but many writers have not really "lived" and don't know what they are talking about - cf Roosevelt's "Man in the arena" speech.
One more: understand volatility. Read Taleb's "Dynamic Hedging" which is still the most intuitive text on the idea. Life is probabilistic, not deterministic, it's about maximizing odds, not doing things and getting certainly rewarded for them. There is no "path", only a set number of mutually exclusive options you can go long at a point in time, and with massively incomplete information. Profitable traders are those who are profitable 51% or more of the time (simplification but you get the idea) - not 100%. This was the least intuitive and longest to learn lesson.
To some degree a lot of what I said fits in that. Build a solid base of knowledge in a variety of important fields, to be ready for anything. Then, optimize for newness and things orthogonal to your existing set of experiences, using your strong base to handle them well.
I noticed a couple of posts here suggesting college students should learn some form of programming - VBA, Python, R, ect. What purpose do these languages serve outside of trading, quant roles or IT?
Just taking SQL - or more specifically, understanding relational databases - it gives you a means of manipulating and understanding data very fast and very reliably, much more so than Excel. Simple example: the vlookup. It's actually a form of left join. Except let's say you're doing a vlookup on a stock price on day X, and for some reason someone copy pasted the data wrong and there's two different entries for day X, the vlookup will (or used to) return the first value and you won't be the wiser for it. A good relational database would enforce uniqueness and thus not let you enter the second value in the first place (or throw an error causing you to check your data input). Of course when you deal with datasets beyond a few thousand rows, you also want to be working on the command line rather than by hand. Learning SQL is a matter of less than an hour if you approach it in a structurally sound (i.e. set theoretic/predicate logic POV) manner. Then, doing things like % WOW change in a particular subset of the revenue sliced by geographical area is a matter of a couple lines of code instead of a nightmare of formulas and testing across several tabs, or working out how Microsoft butchered the latest version of pivot tables.
R is similar, but for statistics. It's trivial (2-3 lines) to do a multiple linear regression in R (allowing you for example to quickly check whether your assumptions on which economic factors affect your target company's revenue are correct) or a pairs plot between 10 variables, and a real PITA in Excel. PowerPoint-worthy plotting is much more powerful and simpler with the Grammar of Graphics (implemented as the ggplot2 library). As you get better at it you can have fun with the amazing statistical packages available.
Scripting languages (which really means any language, as you can write a script even in C or R if you feel masochistic, but in practice means Python, Ruby or PHP if you're a beginner, and something like Haskell or Clojure if you're a computer scientist) and UNIX allow you easy manipulation of "the world beyond the data". You can quickly correct a data feed for erroneous input, interface with data feeds automatically, change comma delimited to tab delimited in one line, manage your database from outside the database, etc. UNIX is much better at it in my experience than the Windows command line, so a lot of people use Cygwin and similar tools to replicate that environment. When I was forced to use a Windows machine I'd just throw open a virtual machine where I did my data work in Ubuntu (the dominant and therefore easiest free linux distro). OSX is the best, most user friendly, cleanest UNIX distribution in my opinion so buying a mac is a great investment.
As you get better and if you are independent enough, you can then manage your own server ($500/year at Gandi or similar will get you a real beast), databases, etc. to further automate and speed up your work. You'll also realize that your thinking quality is improving, you can handle complexity and high dimensional situations better because you understand how to structure them in your head. It's kind of learning to drive: initially it sucks and the lazy dude still cycling to work is having a laugh, but it then massively expands the places you can get to and things you can do once you have your license and your first car. Your "understanding of your city" then changes quite a bit.
The main problem is that there are few good tutorials from the appropriate POV. People mostly learn from experience and smart people kind of work out the theory from first principles as they go along. Nowadays, I try and teach the people I hire because it makes them so much more enormously productive.
dump your gf and work harder
Freshman Self: 1. Hit the gym starting now. 5-6 days a week. 2. Study Abroad your summer going into your sophomore year. 3. Don't be afraid to talk girls. 4. Secure a 4.0 GPA your classes are probably a joke. 5. Start networking with individuals in the fields you want to work in.
Dont spend your time dabbling in everything-- Focus on a few areas and be the best that you can be in those areas. Linguistic intelligence should be on top of your list.
time management will let you do everything you could ever want to do
Great advice. Thank you everyone - especially the guys with elaborate answers.
1) Time management. Learn it. I recommend a book called "No Excuses! The Power of Self Discipline" 2) "Date" multiple girls at a time. Keeps your head straight, and you won't pay attention to any one girl too much. 3) Study abroad early. Spring semester of sophomore year is perfect time. Don't do a summer. It's worth the extra loan money to spend a full 4-5 months abroad. 4) Get your first finance internship as early as possible. It just makes the whole process much easier. 5) Enjoy it while it lasts.
Do what you really want to do. If there's always something in the background that you're debating doing, do it. Otherwise, you will never be able to give your current endeavors 100%.
Go home when the bars close; nothing other than trouble happens that late. Honestly.
highly disagree
College Freshmen advice (Originally Posted: 08/25/2015)
I am a going to be a college freshmen and I'm wondering what I can do during the year besides great gpa/recs to help me get started on an IB path. I'm coming from a non target so IB recruiting is going to be extra difficult for me.
I'm aiming to get an internship next summer from a f500 company. Do you think that is realistic? What are the differences between recruitment for analyst positions for corporate finance and ib recruiting?
I appreciate some advice going forward. Thanks!
Do you have any personal contacts you can make use of? Getting any decent finance related internship after first year is difficult at a target, and definitely more so at nontarget.
Not any at ibs but my dad works at a f500 company. Not sure if they have any finance related internships though. I was hoping to network during this year and hopefully get what I can get. I go to a non target that is a target for a lot of f500 comps recruiting out of engineering though.
I researched a lot of ib networking but I'm not sure if that process translates to f500 recruiting. Do you think I'm on the right path ATM?
Someone suggests that I should also try regional boutique ibs. What do you think?
Don't just aim for an F500 internship. Try to aim higher and if you are unable to get anything, then you could go for an F500 internship or a PWM internship at a well-known bank.
Need Advice - Just finished freshman year (Originally Posted: 06/02/2013)
Hello everyone ! I just finished my freshmen year at college and aspire to be a business man in Wall Street in the near future. I know I'm still very young which is why I'm looking for any type of advice that will help me out. Thank you.
p.s feel free to throw any important advice or information my way.
You can be "on" but not "in" Wall St.
Yeah, lurk on this website.
Advice for a Freshmen; Because You Were Just Like Me At One Point (Originally Posted: 03/14/2015)
Hi everyone,
I'm currently a freshmen attending a top Canadian business school. Although I was not able to secure an internship for the summer, I want to be productive over the coming four months. In particular, I would like to learn more about finance. I currently only have very basic knowledge of the field but I have a wide range of resources available to me (CSC, CFA, modelling course material etc.). I was just hoping to get some idea in terms of where to start and how to progress.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I am very willing to put in the work, and I would love to hear some advice from you guys.
Read everything you can. There are a ton of books out there on every area in finance. Figure out what you want to do and then read about that field.
I'd also recommend doing one of the modeling courses like BIWS. If you do both of these, do well in classes, and do some kind of extracurricular you'll be good for internship recruiting over the next year.
Glad to hear you are young, eager, and know where you want to go. I would suggest (on top of echoing what @supernontarget said above) using this time to reach out to anyone and everyone you might know in finance. Just ask them about what they do and how they got there. Be genuine in wanting to learn because you never know when someone might do something that is perfect for you. On top of that, everyone is willing to help someone who genuinely wants to hear about them and is not just asking for an internship/job.
And to add to the BIWS, I think it's running at like $350 these days which isn't the cheapest thing, but if you get it now it is
freshman advice (Originally Posted: 08/14/2012)
.
Your current boss sounds like a real nice guy and it sounds like you have a decent gig right now, much better than other PWM situations i've heard of. But your boss telling you IBD is "grunt work" is misleading, as ALL ibd work is grunt work (I'm assuming your potential ibd stint will consist of similar work as all other ibd stints). Your boss sounds like he is trying to keep you as his intern tbh.
In the end, it all depends on the fundamentals of what you want to do. You really have to dig deep and decide if you want to try and lateral over the IB side or stay in AM.
Go with the IB SA role if you get it. This will give you two different interenships and allow you to see which area you prefer
Sounds like a real nice guy, and you can understand why he is biased against you going to the sell side, but it would be a very good opportunity for you after your sophomore year. You can leverage that experience for your junior SA and you would be all set when you graduate. PWM just isn't for 20-year-olds and while you've probably got some good experience this summer, I would move on to the IB gig.
Thanks for all the advice so far everyone.
The more I think about it the more I know that AM is the career path I would like to stick to because it's what I enjoy, but I guess an ibanking internship would help me get to that path faster, even if the work is dull and pointless?
Advice and info for incoming college freshman? (Originally Posted: 07/11/2014)
Hey! I'm going to be a rising college freshman and I'm started to get interested in Finance and well working on wall street. Obviously, I know that it's extremely difficult and that there's a lot of stress and hard work involved, which is why I just wanted to get some info on the various fields, job paths, and any other relevant information from someone that doesn't know too much about Finance other than what can be found through hard-core googling, reading ManagementConsulted, CC, and asking some friends and family members.
I guess if you could describe each path in finance (Investment Banking, Consulting, Private Equity, Hedge Funds, Venture Capitol, Private Wealth Management, Trading, Asset Management, and corporate finance) how would you describe it to someone who's trying to understand what it's really like (not just the job description you can find researching) and the paths that most people take right after college?
I know I sound pretty naive and new, but I'm just trying to gather as much info as I can. I'd appreciate the help/advice
Hey, I know you're new but this isn't the best way to utilize this site. You're asking very basic questions and are asking for profound answers which go futher what you can find doing "hard-core googling." My piece of advice is to just use the search bar. Scour pages on each of the industries and you'll learn everything you're asking for. There are dozens of "day in the life" posts and things of the sort which give a glimpse of what each is really like, how to break in, and where each will lead you in your career. From someone who was in your shoes just a couple years ago, exploring WSO for yourself is the best way to gather information and figure out what the various paths are. Best of luck.
To further that point, if you've done so called 'hard core googling' and haven't been able to find the answer to your question, that is far from hard core. For any of those professions one thing you'll need to do is be able to dig deep to get your answer without asking for handouts. Even without googling you could just go to the individual sub forums and spend just 10 minutes on each and you'd get more information than you would spending that amount of time on google.
Current College Freshman/Sophmomore, hoping to get some tips (Originally Posted: 12/22/2012)
Hey guys, I just recently stumbled upon this site and immediately realized how awesome it was. Basically I have been really inspired by all the success stories from people on here so I wanted to document my journey from start to end so I can eventually share with WSO and help others on their paths. The thing is, I'm in the start of my journey right now. A little info about myself I am currently in my first year of college (though technically I am a Sophomore because I have a year worth of credits from AP and other things), I go to a semi target public university in Ohio, and after my first semester I have a GPA of 3.56. Right now the area that interests me the most is Management Consulting, though I am really open to Investment Banking, PE, etc. As of right now I don't have any contacts in BB, MM firms, or even Boutique firms but I hope to begin networking to build these contacts soon.
So right now I am hoping for some advice on how to get started looking for something, anything Finance related to do this summer. I haven't really narrowed my interests too much so I am open to any Finance related field. Being a Freshman there are not many prominent internship opportunities so what are some past things you guys have done to get relevant experience as a freshman?
I hope to really keep track of my progress towards my end goal of landing a top notch job (be it MBB, BB, etc.) and I want to be as detailed as possible, if there is any way you think you may be of any help please don't hesitate to let me know. PM me with any questions or comments.
Apply as a sophomore to programs at BB investment banks, including back office roles.
Advice for a Rising Freshman (Originally Posted: 05/22/2013)
Hello WallStreetOasis,
I'm a rising freshman that is going to a target school next year on the West coast. I'm trying to plan my future, hopefully one in IB. I was hoping to get some advice from WSO.
My goal is to have an internship at a larger boutique or a BB in the summer between my sophomore and junior year.
Right now, I have an internship set for me during the summer between my freshman and sophomore year. It's not IB, but I will very likely be doing work that's similar to IB.
To get the goal I have for my the summer between sophomore and junior year would it be useful to do these things:
Receive Wall Street Prep's Certification in Financial and Valuation Modeling Certificate from the new Claritas thing by CFA (I know this gets a lot of hate) Microsoft Office Specialist (MOS) Master Certificate in Powerpoint and Excel.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Rising Freshman? a) please don't call yourself that. just say you're an incoming student b) relax, don't sweat it. If you have an internship lined up for your freshman summer i'd reckon that your connections are rock solid. nothing wrong with that. focus on working hard and doing a good job while remaining humble. the rest will fall into place.
I could not agree more with on what you have commented.
Make sure your GPA is solid and get involved on campus.
If you're going to Stanford/Caltech, you're going to dilute your pedigree by getting garbage certificates like those. Just work hard, get good grades, learn the material, learn how to network, and learn how to be liked by people.
make sure you network
definetly always useful in the long run
do NOT get claritas! claritas was designed for admin/ops people in the investment management business. I'm considering asking one of my assistants to get it so if your goal is to get into a client facing role in banking (obviously decades from now), claritas is a waste of time & money. better, become well read to learn about the business and use the search function here at WSO, you'll find more info than you know what to do with.
if you still want a certification, in my opinion CFA is the only one that's respectable and flexible, and you can begin studying for that your senior year, so don't worry about certifications now, focus on studying & networking & partying (in reverse order). good luck & Godspeed
College Freshman looking for advice (Originally Posted: 11/01/2011)
Hi everybody,
Currently I am a freshman at Princeton University, and I am wondering about get a job on Wall Street. Can anyone tell me what is usually required to get a job at JPB, Goldman, Merril, or other similar banks, in regards to GPA and other activities? I mostly want to work at one of those places so I can launch a career into something else, and maybe get an MBA. I'm considering majoring in economics with a certificate (minor) in finance, although I might go for something more STEMish. I'm wondering because I want to start off on the right track, and I don't want to be one of those people who can't afford life even though they have a college degree. I'm also concerned about getting a high GPA because it's not easy getting a high GPA here. However, my biggest concern is the future of the banking industry: do you think it will be as large in four years as it was before the recession, or do you think most of the jobs will dry up? Do you think it would be beneficial in any way to get a PhD in psychology, economics, or something related if that is the case in four years?
TL;DR: What do banks want and I what can I do in the next four years so I can have that?
Thanks
One piece of advice from a fellow tiger: never mention grade deflation outside of Princeton. People won't take you seriously...
For GPA, you should definitely have over a 3.5 (it will make things so much easier if your GPA is above a 3.7 though). Major in something you like - doesn't matter at Princeton as long as you know your finance stuff (which you can learn from Vault guides and etc later on when it's time). Econ is a great department though. One great tip for a high GPA: set a sleep minimum (of >6.5 hours) and work around that.
As for the future of banking - as long as there is M&A activity, IPOs, and debt offerings, there will still be a need for banking. An investment bank is kind of like a diamond store - when times are tough, people are less likely to buy diamonds and companies are less likely to buy other companies. What I am way more concerned about is the future of the leveraged buyout.
Don't get a PhD if you plan on going to Wall Street unless 1) you really want to, or 2) it's in something hardcore finance-y and you are smart enough to make Hedge Funds want you. A PhD is psychology will do nothing for you.
What do banks want? People who will be good bankers. All you have to do is show that you are someone who's willing to work hard with a great attitude, is very strong with numbers and financial concepts, and would be good with people.
Thanks. I'll try my best to get at least a 3.5. Semi-related, how much did your GPA improve after your freshman year? I'm hoping I can pull off a 3.3, which is not high enough. How much do GPA's rise after freshman year, assuming that I work as hard or harder?
Soon-To-Be Undergraduate Freshman - Looking for Advice (Originally Posted: 04/20/2014)
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It's never too early ..
Join student government, finance clubs, specific IB clubs (if you school has them, mine does) .. That will help you build a network starting now over the course of 4 years will help you in the future and will help you get an internship moving forward at a smaller bank (mabey not even IB your freshman year but will allow you to build your resume for the next years interning). I say that because BB firms won't touch you untill your a sophomore .. Or your daddy is Lloyd B.. keep you GPA high as possible, stay here on Oasis for the next four years, learn the jargon, start building a small dress wardrobe, and more than anything have a good time and learn to be EFFICENT and PRODUCTIVE with life not just school. And accept the fact that your light years ahead of your peers.. That's good, so don't let them bring you down because their going to become school teachers and cops. Your future will thank you. Keep your life in perspective as well.. (Get a hobby or two) !
I'm in the same position your in just a few years into the process .. It's not that hard to break in if you need it and will do everything to give yourself a leg up... MSG me if you have any q.. Otherwise good luck !
Also forgot to mention .. Read the books "Young Money" and "Liars Poker" liars is a classic but YM depicts the negative side of IB you should see..
Thanks so much for the quick and useful response.
I will definitely be joining finance and IB related clubs and most certainly try to take leadership roles within each.
I have some dress clothes, but none of them are very fancy at all, just like cheap $15-$20 dress shirts, and I don't have a blazer. None of these dress shirts are slim fits or anything, and they're just not very nice at all. I'm assuming that won't fly in the business world? I don't exactly have the money to get new ones yet!
Definitely invest in some dress clothes (aka suits) that fit right. Nothing too fancy but nothing too cheap either. Keep your GPA above ~3.7 since you're at Rutgers. Don't limit yourself to finance clubs and alumni. Join other clubs that interest you; everyone is a potential, relevant connection.
I'm a really shy person too, so I understand where you're coming from. That's why I think it's never too early to start networking. Start networking now if you want to! Because by continuously networking, you'll eventually learn to appear more confident and employers will see that. That's what worked for me. The same can be said for interviews. Rehearse your answers over and over again until it's so ingrained in you that you're very comfortable and confident with saying your answers.
Good luck with everything! Rutgers may be a non target, but it has a really good alumni base on wall st. given Rutgers's proximity to nyc
Thanks for the responses guys.
I absolutely hate reading books to be completely honest, but I'll probably give those a shot sometime in college!
Any other advice / suggestions / comments people would like to drop here are very welcome, and I would appreciate any response.
Advice for a college freshman? (Originally Posted: 07/07/2013)
Hi guys I'm starting college this fall as an international and am interested in a finance career afterwards. I know that investment banking would be the best start I could have for the industry and am looking for any and all relevant advice so that I can start on the right foot in freshmen year.
I would love to get some advice about picking classes, networking, finding internships as an international student, joining clubs or fraternities, or anything at all that could be relevant.
Thanks for all your help guys!
Where are you internatiinally? ie Canada to U.S or NorthAmerica to Europe/UK?
Are you at a target school?
Regardless, make sure you keep your grades high and take challenging classes. Network with whomever you can (family friends, alumni from your school, professors) and keep following up with them in order to build your relationships.
Joining a fraternity is up to you, don't join one for the wrong reasons though. Also, join a couple of clubs that are related to business/finance and try to get into a leadership position in one of them after a few semesters. I also recommend joining one club that genuinely interests you.
You've got plenty of time, but these few things should help you out for now.
1) Keep high GPA 2) Try some start-up ideas with friends (helps get your foot in the door by making you an interesting candidate down the road as compared to other homogenized drones) 3) Get an internship to get a feel of your prospective job 4) Most importantly - try to understand why you want to get into finance. Are you genuinely interested in the field? Are you in it for the money? Are you using your exit-ops as a stepping stone for your career?
Remember, at the end of the day, the best advice I can give you is - seek a career, not a job. Jobs are the stepping stones to pave the path towards your career.
I'm coming from New Zealand which is a small country next to Australia :). Will be attending UMich, applying for Ross for sophomore.
Thanks for the tips so far really appreciate it!
2) There was a very interesting article about this on M&I. The man argument was that while this shows some good qualities (working long hours, etc.) it also shows that you are innovative and free spirited (NOT good). Anyway, that's still OP's call. OP, also consider the fact that you are not allowed to work while you are inside the US even if it is for your own startup. So you could lose your visa status and, thus, have to go back home.
New Zealand? Flight of the Conchords quote for ya..
Sinjay: You can have fruit from the New Zealand section. Jemaine: There's a dog in that section. Sinjay: Yeah, well, it's for dogs from America and people from New Zealand.
All you need to worry about is getting into Ross. There's a huge difference between Ross recruiting and Michigan LSA. High GPA, solid ECs, solid essays/interview. Consider applying to the business frats on campus, there are three (two available for non-ross students). Join an investing club if you're interested in finance.
UMich Ross has great placement into investment banking. like others have said, just keep up your GPA and most importantly, enjoy college!
Join the social frats too. It's Michigan. Live it up and get in on those I'm Shmacked videos
I'm not sure about the fraternity culture in Michigan, but if you want to truly enjoy an unforgettable 4 year college experience in America, join a fraternity. Assuming you're a cool dude and want to have SOME fun and not all just work and study, look for a chapter that is open-minded about international students (many are not...even mine isn't the most open-minded about it either) and pledge one that has guys you are comfortable with. NEVER JOIN A FRATERNITY FOR THE WRONG REASONS...i.e for the "networking" possibilities or the "resume booster". You will be seen right through and be segregated immediately from everyone else. No one will like you.
I would also recommend joining at least ONE finance related organization, and ONE-TWO non-related finance organization to broaden your network and friends.
As an international student, if you make an effort to experience the "fun" side of a U.S college, you will stand out immensely from every other international student who holes themselves up at the on campus library until 4am.
Alright thanks everyone! I'll definitely try my hardest to get into Ross while participating in some clubs and whatnot and trying to have some fun on the way too. Thanks again!
General HELP for a rising freshman (Originally Posted: 05/21/2012)
Hi,
I'm a rising freshman who will be attending a target school in the fall. Long story made short---medical school is no longer an option because of this college's costs and so I'd really like to look into finance(esp. investment banking) as a career option. I'm really at lost as to what the differences in the job description of people hedge funds, Asset Management, corporate banking, venture capital, and investment banking are so would someone please explain for me? (details are highly appreciated)
My high school activities -TA for a foreign language I'm fluent in -tutoring club president -Foreign Language Clubs (with leadership position) -Community Service Clubs(Environmental Club, Habitat for Humanity) -National Honor Society -work as manager for family business -Intel ISEF participant -internship at a tech firm -free-lance translator+interpreter for Mandarin Chinese+Cantonese
High School Courses(in descending order of classes taken) 1)sciences 2) foreign languages 3)social studies(4 history courses, psychology, econ) 4)math 5)English classes
Interests -alternative energy sources+freshwater production+tech in general(research and development of) -foreign languages(fluent in 4 languages+studied 5yrs of 2+interested in acquiring at least conversational ability in 3 more languages) -entrepreneurship
As you can see, most of my high school experiences are unrelated with the finance sector as before I thought I was doomed to the medical route. But after talking to a friend at my college, I was recommended the finance route because of its popularity and similarity in compensation. Do you recommend this route for me and if so, which route specifically that might allow me realize some of my skills/interests? Also, since I'm lacking in any type of finance-related experience/activities, what do you recommend me doing during my freshman and sophomore years? I really would like to secure an internship during sophomore year to test out whether finance is more me so need a really good resume. I'm grateful for any advice you can offer.
Thank you for your time reading this post and answering my questions. It is much appreciated!
cool story brah
YOur lack of finance experience going into undergrad is a non-issue, you have plenty of time to develop your resume if you choose to go the finance route. I'd recommend you read through all of M&I (posted above by human) to get a general idea of what industry areas interest you (if any) and then go from there. Also, the FAQ section (//www.wallstreetoasis.com/frequently-asked-questions) is helpful as well.
Once you get a better idea of the context come back here and ask more specific questions.
Hi teehee,
In addition to the link Human posted, I would highly suggest you spend some time searching WSO for basic information regarding finance. Most of your questions will probably be answered by past threads. When you have more specific / unique questions, that is the time to post.
Couple of basics though: Assuming the target has no ugrad business program, you probably want to major in econ Get at least a 3.5 Read the WSJ or Financial Times daily Look for some sort of IB / finance club to get involved with
Good Luck!
@human, gstackle32,
Thank you so much for the feedback and links!
WSO FAQ pages are the HOLY GRAIL!!! and I'll probably be spending these couple of days reading them.
@illiniPride
Thank you for your advice about reading WSJ/Financial News + maintaining GPA---I'd definitely be reading them alongside ScienceDaily(lol).
Also, I have a question about the major choice. I'm enrolled at UPenn though not at Wharton because when I was applying I thought science would be my #1 focus but was going to take alot finance/business classes as supplements. Would it be absolutely necessary for me to switch to finance in order to secure internships as an underclassman or get a job? If I maintain a science major but take as many Finance courses as students majoring in Finance will that be looked upon as favorably as having majoring in Finance or are courses taken not really looked at? I am hesitant about switching majors because I'd like to have an alternative path(most likely science-related) to take if I decide finance is not for me and because the requirements for switching majors are really high--at least 3.7 by freshman year which I'm not sure I can maintain.
Again, thank you for your time! I'd really appreciate any insight you can offer.
It's like this:
Your resume will be looked at for ~30 seconds to one minute while screening for interviews. The first things looked at will be school, GPA, and major (in that order).
A hard science major will probably hurt your GPA compared to Fin / Econ. Recruiters understand this, but even so it will put you at a slight disadvantage. You will also be up against a lot of driven kids at a finance powerhouse like Penn.
So is it absolutely necessary to switch majors to Finance / Econ? Absolutely not. However, if you are going to take a bunch of finance classes I would highly suggest getting a minor. This shows you are actually interested finance and not looking to switch over on a whim. If you don't get the minor, the recruiter will never know that you took the finance classes unless you specifically list them on the resume.
Rising freshman? You need to calm down.
But good for you on getting started early. I didn't really know about financial services until after my freshman year.
@illiniPride
Thank you so much for replying so quickly again! Getting a minor sounds like an awesome alternative to double-majoring or switching majors! And yes, my major will definitely hurt my G.P.A thus my wariness about whether I even have the chance to change majors/dual-major between different schools but I know that the getting a minor across schools has less restrictions.
@Rambo I really should be calming down...since high school is finally ending! But choosing Penn was a crazy expensive decision that I feel can only be compensated by working harder and landing a job ASAP. Additionally, the general career-orientedness of my future peers makes me feel like I should be figuring stuff out too.
Although I think the best thing to do would be to try to transfer into Wharton, it's ridiculously hard from what I heard, and there are other options. What I would do is develop a good story for why you're a science major who's interested in finance (and of course, get a minor). Something like, "at first, I was interested in healthcare or tech or whatever, but as I started dealing with companies, I became more interested in [something related to companies, deals, valuation, etc]." There are plenty of related industry groups in IBanking so it shouldn't be too hard to draw some kind of connection and spark for finance.
Also, it might be helpful to double major in Econ.
College Freshman needs Advice (Originally Posted: 08/07/2011)
Hey everyone. I've been silently reading WSO on and off now for about a year, so first of all, thanks for all the great advice. I've really learned a lot more about the industry from all you guys.
But anyways, in a couple weeks, I'm starting school at Wharton. I'm curious to hear what advice you guys have to give. I know I'm still quite a ways off, but is there anything I should be doing this year to better prepare myself? Certain classes, clubs, people to network with? Should I do some sort of intern next summer? Anything that you are glad you did or maybe wish you had done?
Thanks!
There's a lot you can do to prepare. First, start figuring out exactly what you want to do. That takes time, and luckily that's something you have. Keep in mind that through this process you want to get the most you can out of your time at Wharton both for your future career and for your social life (which will be very important for your career). A few things I'd look into doing:
1) What do you ULTIMATELY want to do? Do you want to make IB your career? Do you want to work for a hedge fund, be a trader, consultant, etc?
2) Get involved with a couple of ECs. I'd really limit this to two so that you can devote your attention to them. I'd either do two clubs or a club and a frat/sorority. The former is great for your resume and the latter is great for getting your social life kicked off.
3) Look at the possible majors and decide what you want to do. It helps if you know what industry you want to go into. If you see a couple different majors as being interesting, try and take classes that are prereqs for both of them.
4) Get a head start on your classes. I think this is one of the most important things by far. Try and read a chapter or two ahead in your books so you have an idea of what's being talked about. Falling behind in class is the worst mistake any student can make (trust me, experience in this area heheh).
5) Your professors can be extremely helpful. You'll undoubtedly be in some large classes as a freshman, but as you progress through school they'll get smaller. Do your best to show interest in the class, even if you're not interested in it. Don't let people tell you that "oh this class sucks" or "god I'm bored, screw this", you don't need that type of bullshit. Focus on what's important: getting good grades, building your network, and having an all around college experience.
Last thing, make sure you play a sport or have some sort of physical activity you can do. Don't underestimate the importance of your physical health. Yea, you're going to go out and party and experiment and all that shit, but you'll be in a much better position if you workout too. You'll feel better, think more clearly, and overall your life will be better.
This is hardly a comprehensive guide for how to do well in school, but it's a start. Make sure you keep your mind open to new things and ideas. And especially don't accept people's negative attitudes and don't be negative yourself. Good luck man
All good points!!
Thanks a bunch! I appreciate it, and will try to keep all that in mind this year.
Keep your GPA above a 3.5
Develop social skills
Know that finance could be a shit industry for many years to come and plan accordingly
advice for a freshman (Originally Posted: 02/24/2010)
Hi everyone, I'm posting here to tap the collective wisdom of the crowd. While I'm currently only a freshman at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, I know that I want to have a career on Wall St. when I enter the work force. That said, I don't really know how to best structure my college experience to give myself the greatest chance of success. So with that in mind, what majors are considered best? What should be my target G.P.A (I have a 3.5 right now)? When and where should I look for internships? What else should I do to best prepare myself? Thanks in advance, Anton
it really depends on what area of finance you want to go into, for IBD, your major doesn't really matter, however, most places will want to see atleast some business classes, but a lot of bankers are history majors, english majors, etc.. for more technical positions such as quant or trading, you will need a strong math background as far was what you can do to prepare, wall street isn't for everyone, firms will not hire you if you have been sitting on your ass since freshman year, you need to show initiative and interest on your resume, which means you need internships from your first summer, internships should get more and more prestigious as you go along (meaning by your junior year summer, you better have an internship at a BB or similar) also, join clubs, particularly finance clubs on campus and for god's sake, NETWORK, networking is the most useful tool to get in truth be told, not everyone makes it onto wall st. even if you graduate from H/Y/P, your coming from UNC which isn't exactly a target school (you may want to consider transfering to ivy league or duke) so you need to get started right now - you should already have an internship lined up for the summer or be in the process of getting it set up hope that helps and good luck
1) Target GPA (what a ridiculous concept, by the way) should be 4.0. As in, aim for that and generally do your best to get good grades.
2) Involve yourself in a few activities that allow you to really dig deep into them and define your experience in a leadership role. Go for quality, not quantity.
3) Make a list of every investment bank you can (there are 100's of them) and then try to find UNC alumni who work at those places. Call them and talk to them about your goals. Ask them about their experiences.
transfer.
1.) Best major is the strongest quantitative or business major at UNC according to US News (Think Math, Engineering, CS, Physics, Econ, Accy, Finance, or maybe Chemistry). I'm trying to remember if they're strong in some engineering or business disciplines. Alternatively, you can go out for the basketball team- they crushed the Illini during the NCAA championships in 2005.
2.) GPA: Whatever is the top 5-10% GPA for your program is what you need to be aiming for at a state school. For engineering, math, and some quantitative disciplines, this may be as low as a 3.5. For most, though, it's more like a 3.85-4.0. If you're in a hard major, make sure you take enough electives to keep the overall GPA up so you can report that on your resume. If you're in a D1 sport, then obviously, you get a bit more leeway on the GPA requirements. Don't worry, recruiters will be more interested in the later parts of your transcript than the earlier parts.
3.) +1 on the extracurriculars. Best thing to do is get involved in some sort of leadership position. If you're the religious type, most mainstream protestant churches on Southern and Midwestern campuses are always looking for leaders to turn things around. Alternatively, join the finance club and start taking on responsibilities, or form your own club.
4.) Most state schools have honors programs, and it looks like UNC is no exception. On the surface, you may qualify for admission:
http://www.honors.unc.edu/index.php/hnrs-enrolled/application.html
Getting in won't be a piece of cake- see if you can find someone who's an existing honors student and get their advice on it.
Graduating from UNC in a tough major is one thing; if you can say that you were in a well-recognized campus-wide honors program that admitted 200 students out of 3800 every year, though, that can help close some of the gap between the traditional elite crowd and you. The classes in honors programs are usually a lot of fun, too.
5.) Work hard, study like crazy, and worst comes to worst, you can always get in the back door through accounting, analytics, or another team that has contact with the front-office. Most of us from the state schools had to fight tooth and nail to get into the front office, but if you're as smart as the H/Y/P kids, there's nothing to say you can't get in if you keep pursuing it. I'm convinced you can get into trading from a community college if you're smart enough and can stay focused on it for five years, and you're coming from a flagship state school like Chapel Hill, so you've got a serious leg-up on the freshman at Hudson County Community College who scored a 1500 on his SATs and can't afford state school.
6.) Don't be too intimidated by this Harvard talk. I'm pretty sure the top 5 or 10% at most strong state schools like UNC are going to be in the top 50% in terms of quantitative and business competence in most banking analyst classes. Just because someone's from Harvard doesn't mean they're smarter or more competent than you. If they're summa cum laude from Harvard and have a PhD in theoretical physics from MIT, OK, maybe. If you graduate in the top 5-10% from UNC Chapel Hill in a tough quantitative program, you're PROBABLY at least on the order of a relatively smart Harvard/Yale/Princeton grad's intelligence. (This is not meant as a swipe at the Ivies- just the recognition that there's smart people EVERYWHERE and not EVERYONE who's brilliant goes to a small selection of private schools.)
you don't necessarily need an internship in finance after your freshman year and you don't have to transfer if you really like it at UNC. As long as you do your homework on the industry, join some finance-related clubs on campus, network (with friends and family, not just alumni), and keep your gpa at 3.7+ (3.5 minimum), you'll be fine.
enjoy college and concentrate on getting a relevant internship next year.
Thanks for all the advice. As of right now, I play on the school's rugby team which is a pretty hefty time commitment(year-round season). Which schools are worthwhile to transfer to?
If so, maintain the GPA, try to get into the honors program, and I think you'll be a pretty competitive applicant your Junior year. You'll still have to fight tooth and nail to get in, and might not get offers everywherem but there's no real need to transfer and triple your tuition at a private school.
B of A is headquartered in Charlotte, IIRC. If they do on-campus recruiting, that may be your ticket in. Get involved in the finance club on campus and go to the recruiting fairs and figure out a strategy to get in at B of A.
you may be able to leverage your rugby skills in the transfer process... if you want to stay in the south, Duke is good, if you want to go up to the north east, then look for H/Y/P - Wharton also works for finance - on west coast - stanford- otherwise be very cautious in transferring, it wouldn't make sense to go from UNC to say Georgetown, only transfer if its a big improvement and do it so you will be at the school for spring recruting soph. year,
it doesn't hurt to apply to these schools and no one would argue that transfering to a better school is worse in any way
Since you are still a freshman this is what you should do:
-Pick a major such as engineering or computer science and learn programming languages and how to design websites. -Take a bunch of business courses, especially in accounting, business management, finance and strategic thinking. -Math, especially statistics, will come in very handy. -Take a lot of marketing courses, and learn as much as possible about internet marketing. -Take some entrepreneurship courses if your school offers any. -And the most important step is to open your own business (while you are still in school) and stay the fuck away from banking!
It is D1 but not varsity. Rugby at UNC is considered a super club. At the start of this season we were ranked top 25 in the country, and are generally considered one of the best programs in the south. However, because of title IX and football, we aren't considered varsity.
you don't need to transfer away from UNC, plenty of banks come to recruit. your best shot is to get into the business school next year. join the investment club now so you can try to take on some responsibility by junior year. try to get your gpa up but don't let it fall below 3.5 no matter what. check the career services website and go to every bank's presentations just to meet people and network for internships after junior year, quite possibly the most important thing you can do. this really isn't relevant until fall full-time recruiting starts but go as a sophomore next year. pm me if you have any other questions
At Illinois, we've got a lot of smart students in the business school, but engineers seem to be the most competitive for trading positions at the Chicago prop shops. I can't speak for IBD, but if you want to be in Capital Markets, you want the toughest quantitative major the school offers, and then take at least enough finance and accounting courses for a minor. With all due respect to a lot of brilliant CPAs out there, Diffy'Qs and Probability are probably going to be more important for trading than the tax policy course you're required to take as an accounting major. Finance or Econ are good majors for trading, but they're only about 30 credit hours of required major courses at many schools. You usually need to have a lot of tough quantitative courses to back up an econ or finance degree, so that's why I recommend a tough quantitative major at most state schools.
UNC's undergrad business school is regarded well. There's no engineering school so that's not an option. If you're looking to get into banking at UNC then business is the way to go.
The OP needs to figure out which school is best for him. It sounds like things are going pretty swimmingly at UNC. In five years, it really won't matter which school you went to; it will matter which school prepared you best for your career.
You will have to fight your way in, but that's the way things work EVERYWHERE if you're competing against people whose education cost five times as much.
advice for a freshman: GET LAID
Thanks again for all the advice. Should I focus on pure math, applied math, or statistics?
Advice for Freshman (Originally Posted: 10/07/2013)
Hello Freshman, while you are getting comfortable adjusting to your new lifestyles I am going to tell you guys about my beneficial experience last year.
So last year I was a freshman at a non target, this made me network more aggressively. My advice to you guys is to enjoy your first year but network any way possible. I have too many friends that are counting on getting a Internship after their Junior year, without actually building their resume.
Last summer I got an Internship at a VC firm and it was an incredible experience, with this on my resume it has made the interviewing this year a lot easier. Despite being from a non target and having around a 3.5 GPA I have already been asked to interview at IB firms which I would have never guessed would be a possibility a year ago.
Just remember that applying to dozens internships is what its going to take, and shooting alumni emails is also a great way to get your foot in the door.
Thats pretty sweet OP and good luck on your interviews! Keep the gpa up and enjoy college. I always say network aggressively but worst comes to worst get a super chill/relaxed PWM internship between the summer of your sophomore and freshman year. Maybe even in a city where you can hang out with your friends and just drink every other night.
That's solid advice. I would also add, make sure to keep your GPA up while still taking intro courses and get involved in on campus organizations.
Agreed, a couple of bad classes can exclude you from a lot of internship opportunities.
Hey OP, besides the networking, did you take time to learn IB relevant material during your freshman year? I'm kind of curious because I'm sure my school (non-target) doesn't offer any relevant coursework for freshman and I'm afraid that I'm already behind the curve in terms of knowledge.
What can I do in my Freshman year of college to get a jumpstart for my career? (Originally Posted: 09/25/2015)
Hi all,
I am currently a Freshman attending community college for my first year, before pursuing a guaranteed transfer to Cornell University's Dyson School of AEM for my succeeding three years. Being at a community college in NYC, I feel so limited. Limited not just by losing a first-year college experience, but also limited in terms of opportunities and programs. It sucks being in a thriving city, taking mundane classes learning basically nothing, and wasting the bits of free time I do have. Thus, I have decided to do turn a new leaf, and invest my energies and efforts into fruitful and productive endeavors. I want to do x, I want to do y, I want to do z... But, the problem is: I don't know where to begin. I definitely see my future in IB or Entrepreneurship, but for now, I am struggling to find out what I can do this year with all this unused time on my hands to give myself a jump-start for the future. While other college freshmen are solely working and studying, I want to study while juggling perhaps a job, internship, etc. Of course, I would also prefer that I can undertake an activity that would aid in buffing my resume, as I do lack a substantial financial / business background at the moment.
What do I do WSO??? Please help!
Best, Bjoon
Build resume items that do not require a special certification. Becoming proficient in VBA and SQL are good options.
Case competitions are my biggest recommendation for freshman, sophomore and even juniors with no internship exp. It looks good and is always a good conversation topic during interviews.
I dont know if this is an option for you but a friend of my brothers did the CC > Ivy and the biggest thing that helped him was getting a PT internship while he was at CC and then getting a PWM summer internship. This gave him 2 internships going into summer recruiting at the Ivy.
I agree with this. Hit up a local Merrill, MS, RJ, Edward Jones, etc. office. You will probably just do a lot of grunt work, but it demonstrates an interest in finance.
If I was a freshman and not lazy, I would built a simple website/blog, and put everything that I learnt over the years, on that website. Basically document your journey, the career paths you are exploring, networking methods that u've tried and what you learnt from it, the other career paths that are out there, and etc. Then every couple of months, I would revisit my site as a public user, and take off or consolidate unnecessary fluff.
Making a website will make sure that you are doing something, and viewing it as a public user helps you see what you've generated through all your efforts.
n hopefully Generate some passive income ifuknowwhatimean
Thank you all for the great tips and advice! So, I take it, I should pursue what I am currently doing and actively hunt for internship opportunities. But do they have to be relevant to IB? For example, if I was offered an internship by a small strategies company, or by a nonprofit corporate into the Fundraising/Marketing sect, is that largely worthless? Also, would it be worth my time to self-study this a course offered by "Wall Street Training?"- I understand a better financial modeling course and whatnot is offered in the WSP package, but I'm running on a limited budget.
Anyone?
Do stuff that stands out a bit and will strike a good conversation during interviews. Internship in an emerging country is an option and not so hard to get. There are many emerging markets consultancies out there and they usually aren't very regardant for intern recruiting. That can be a first step towards a remotely finance-related internship after your sophomore year, and then a banking internship. And for god's sake enjoy your college time to the fullest and do a lot of social activities. That and get a lot of college chicks
Summer before College Advice? (Originally Posted: 06/28/2015)
Hey Guys,
I'm going to be a freshman at NYU Stern this September, and I'm trying to learn more about finance and the industry in general. I also want to try and get some things to put on my resume so I can start applying for internships next summer. Other than reading forums like WSO or MergersandAcquisitions, you guys have any advice on what I could do over the summer at home to learn more about the industry or add to my resume? Thanks in advance.
get a summer job and hang out with your friends!
There's plenty of opportunity to build your resume when you're here.
What to do to prepare for undergrad? (Originally Posted: 03/05/2016)
I will be starting Queen's Commerce this fall and hope to work in investment banking once I graduate. Of course, I do not know for sure I want to pursue ibanking, but it is what I am thinking of. Definitely something in the field of finance. What should I be doing until then to better prepare me not only for a career in finance, but business school in general? Is it possible for me to work on Wall St. at some point or am I limited to Bay St. because I will go to a Canadian school?
Start reading the daily news and get a feel for what's going on in the markets. Honestly at this point you should just enjoy your teenage years. You can start hustling when you start university. It is possible to go to Wall St. but it'll be harder since you went to a Canadian school.
Practice binge drinking.
you can make it to wallstreet if you have strong grades and network. Read the news and pick up the Rosenbaum and Pearl book this summer.
First year business school is a joke, if you're at least semi-smart you shouldnt have an issue in any class. Just read up on the news understand the roles of the players in capital markets and open a trading account (if you have enough money).
What to do to prepare for undergrad? (Originally Posted: 03/05/2016)
I will be starting Queen's Commerce this fall and hope to work in investment banking once I graduate. Of course, I do not know for sure I want to pursue ibanking, but it is what I am thinking of. Definitely something in the field of finance. What should I be doing until then to better prepare me not only for a career in finance, but business school in general? Is it possible for me to work on Wall St. at some point or am I limited to Bay St. because I will go to a Canadian school?
Stuff that you wish you knew when you were a sophomore in college (Originally Posted: 02/01/2011)
Hit me with your wisdom, monkeys.
Use a condom.
+1
Ditch the scholarship, take on debt to go to a target.
effective networking and thicker skin.
Second Jim Young
Agreed with Jim Young. Replace "US News and World Report Ranking" with "Future Earning Potential," "Alumni Network" and "Placement Statistics" in my vocabulary.
"I only get 2 more years of this and then I have to get a job so kill it now and worry later..."
People skills matter just as much, if not more than, intellectual ability (not just for career, but for your overall happiness).
I actually realized this during my soph year of college and made improving my people skills my top (really, only) priority for that year. In that one year, I went from being a dorky kid who had only had one gf to a popular kid dating one of the hottest girls at my uni. Amazing what you can do if you set your mind to it.
id also second international pymp, there is more to the world than other preppy kids going into finance.
get your shit together early, network, and stay on top of the recruiting game, early fuck ups make it much harder later on. getting into IBD is mostly about being prepared and being interested early, it doesnt require much intelligence, and whilst good networking is key, an early start and being prepared is probably most important.
Also never mix vodka and beer :X(altough by the time you get to college you should have figured this one out ;))
how did you go about improving your people skills so quickly? Don't leave us hanging...
I third Jim Young, things would have been a lot easier for me. Back then I thought just being at a really good state school was enough.
network early
Network your ass off. Going to professor's office hours will boost your GPA and actually save you from studying too much. Go out as much as possible (that doesn't mean black out as much as possible). Remember that you're on a college campus surrounded by good looking women who will put out. Build relationships with people on campus (students, alumni, faculty). They'll help you in the future.
don't be a dick to anyone don't be an arrogant prick
Don't go to undergrad b school. Go for lib arts in econ or math or computer science. Network constantly. Start early. Meet alum from your school sophomore year so you can build a long term relationship with them.
(1) Don't be such an elitist bastard and broaden your horizons beyond rich/jaded prep school kids (2) don't smoke cigarettes and take it easy on your body in general (3) don't spend so much time gambling, the small amounts of money you earn mean nothing and all that time is a complete waste
quote=International Pymp Don't be such an elitist bastard and broaden your horizons beyond rich/jaded prep school kids (2) don't smoke cigarettes and take it easy on your body in general (3) don't spend so much time gambling, the small amounts of money you earn mean nothing and all that time is a complete waste[/quote] New studies show that the tar and nicotine in cigarettes acts as a protective coating against lung cancer.
Disclosure: I have money tied up in Altria.
.
I wish I knew how to move on from a broken relationship. I wouldn't have given up such a prestigious school.
Tip: Google
I agree with everything Int Pymp said, to start. On top of that, start trying to look at the world as full of your peers and not people ahead of you in life (regardless of whether they're an MD@GS). Treating people like they're a person and not a job title will take you places and your maturity will probably impress people.
Enjoy life.
A list I wish I knew sveral years ago:
Intelligence decides what you can do and people skills decide the percentage of your intelligence that can be utilized.
Party is good, but do not destroy your body by getting drunk frequently.
Good sleep = Stable mood + More energy = Can get more things done
*In summary of 3 & 4: Health is your most precious treasury. Do not use it up easily.
You cannot live without money, but the most important things can not be bought with it.
Read history if you have a math/phy/chem mind; Learn math/phy/chem if you have an artful mind.
Do not argue if you do not have enough proof. But argue strongly if you do.
*Additional to 6: All "truths" are only true under certain circumstances. i.e. All truths are subjective.
Stop thinking so much. In the end humans are animals. We are born with impulses, and primal urges for a reason. Sometimes it is best for our mental health to act on impulse, and nothing else.
Talk less and listen more
Make friends that you respect as human beings
Try to figure out what's important in life besides banging chicks and drinking and getting good grades
Just because somebody says shit is hard does not mean it can't be done. If anything it probably means it's worth doing.
Soft skills are incredibly important
Try having sex with women before declaring you're gay. Afterwards it's too awkward to try to scratch that curious itch.
Um, asshole, get your head out of your ass. Just because you're at Harvard doesn't mean your major or grades don't matter.
Don't major in FemStudies / Queer Theory / Anthropology and study Computer Science instead. The days of the Liberal Arts student getting a good job are over.
Get good grades. It's really not fucking hard. Just show up to class, go to office hours (this is KEY), and study. Stop thinking you're above the system and that you don't care about grades. You care now that you're a graduate, fool.
These are all true lessons of my own. Have fun. Don't forget to stop and smell the roses.
Make sure your dreams stay big and your worries stay small. Never, EVER let anyone tell you that you can't do something. Slay bitches until you find one that's worth your time. Drink with your buddies because this is the time that you'll bond the most. You will ALWAYS regret what you didn't do a thousand times more than what you did (and that includes that hot asian chick in your calc class). Good luck and wrap your monkey when you're getting funky (seemed fitting given the site)
More important than any of that though is this; in the words of Jimmy V, "Never give up, don't ever, ever give up"
Always be interested and stop worrying about being interesting. Curiosity and enthusiasm will take you a long way in this world.
Oh, agree with happy, nobody can ever tell you what you can/can't do. If you have friends who give you endless amounts of shit, either drop them or learn that what they say doesn't mean shit. They can enjoy their mediocre lives
drink less read more..
I wish I knew the book my teacher was getting questions from for our exams. I would've aced all of it!
Do not get anything above one underage drinking ticket or a PI. This is as far firms are willing to forgive you. As you can tell from the mutlitude of background check posts on this website, that shit will bend you over and fuck you hard.
Maintain relationships with professors. If they are good people, establishing and maintaining a connection will do you wonders in the future. Besides, who else to take solid advice from regarding your career and what not than ex-professionals in your related fields who were good enough to land a job at your university.
At all times, be in one significant leadership role. The obstacles you face, the determination to improve your organization, and working with delegates are some of the most rewarding experiences. It will test you and make you a better individual.
Get to know people from other schools at your university. When you're spending all your time drinking the same koolaid as every other b-school kid, you get brainwashed. You learn more get the opportunity to meet people that actually have different personalities.
Slay as many slampieces as possible. Pussy will never get any easier (unless you work at Goldman/KKR in which case you might as well be Zeus himself, just don't impregnate).
Just enjoy college man, you will never again play cornhole with a case of natty on a Tuesday afternoon in April listening to Third Eye Blind and sorostitutes flashing you for distraction... fuck.
I got two underage drinking tickets and PI. Didn't stop me from getting an offer. I wouldn't recommend doing it, but I don't think it will necessarily bend you over and fuck you hard.
Use as much lube as possible when having an@l sex with your girlfriend.
Wish I took much, much more math than my stupid BBA required.
Advice for improving social skills?
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