2/6/07

My freshman summer is rapidly approaching. Should I be looking for internships/resume bolstering stuff right now, or does the real race start next summer? As far as I can tell most summer programs and internships aren't intended for people coming out of their freshman year.

Any tips?

Comments (185)

2/6/07

Well, if you are a freshman, then you have plenty of time. Summer internships usually don't take place until summer after Junior year. However, that's not to say you couldn't get some sort of internship somwhere. Any relevant experience in finance will be looked upon favorably. Being a freshman though, you may want to just enjoy your summer. Maybe do some volunteer work. You have plenty of time.

Financial Modeling

2/6/07

I'll tell you what, you're ahead of the game if you're already on an ibanking forum :) I agree, a strong community service volunteer work would be awesome or if you can nail some type of finance related internship.

  • Slams

...

2/6/07

Have you ever wondered that this might be one of your last summer holidays? Enjoy your summer while you can, and worry about getting experience at a later stage. You still have 2 other summers coming up. Compensate it with some extracurricular activities during your sophomore and/or junior year. Life isn't always about one's career.

2/6/07

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm not from a white collar family so I'm new to this concept of needing a fluffy resume; I didn't know when you should start really getting serious about it.

2/6/07

I got serious about it my first year.

Submitted resumes to about 150 firms. Had a 3.9 GPA. Got interviews in less than 10 firms (all small scale firm). Eventually worked at a prop trading shop in NYC.

It's possible to get a good internship at a small firm, you just gotta be persistant.

4/20/07

im going to finish freshman year in about a week. ill be interning at P&G. basically screwing myself over because it has A finance component, but it is by no means a finance internship.

4/20/07

What should I do? I have some choices but I have no idea what to do.

a) Work at a local bank (not ibank) for 30 hrs/week
b) Take summer classes so that I can graduate in 3 years then either relax or do some community service with the last 7 weeks of summer.
c) Wait for INROADS to contact me to see if any internships are available.

4/20/07

Knowing what I know now, here's what I would do if I was a freshman...

On the last day of finals I'd pack my bags, ask my parents for a loan, head for Australia and chill for two months under the sun. See ya, buh bye. :-)

It will not count against you to NOT intern freshman year. Remember, you will work your ass off the rest of your life, why is everyone in such a hurry to be miserable?!?

4/20/07

UHHH... Australia's winter is in June July August... the weather is just not as badass! It's the wrong time to go to Australia. Start with baby food, try Europe.

That being said, Australia/NZ is a great trip but Europe ranks higher for those novice travellers.

4/20/07

I realize Australia doesn't get that cold but I'm telling you from experience go when peak summer (i.e. Dec 15-Jan 15 Xmas break) and do it then...

4/25/07

Alright, I clearly don't know my geography and climate changes :-)

Ok, nix Australia. Go to Argentina for the summer... unless Argentina's winter is our summer... then nix that idea too.

Ok, go to the Galapogos... it HAS to be summer there all year :-)

4/20/07

As I mentioned in another thread of the same topic, you should pray to the ibanking gods for 7 hours daily, at least 5 of which must be consecutive, that you may be so lucky as to grace the halls of the IBD.

4/21/07

When applying for a summer internship your junior year at a BB for IBD, does having a summer internship your sophomore year at a boutique look more favorably than doing some other non-banking related activity?

4/21/07
konvictmusik55:

When applying for a summer internship your junior year at a BB for IBD, does having a summer internship your sophomore year at a boutique look more favorably than doing some other non-banking related activity?

How is this even a serious question?

Of course.

4/26/07

When you're a freshman, your best bet is to ask your mother or father for connections. If they have friends in the industry perhaps you can do some back-office filing or other mundane things.

The main goal for your freshman summer should be to begin building your resume and network. You can definitely apply for internships the old fashioned way, but they don't want you yet because you don't know enough during your freshman summer.

Best of luck and honestly, take whatever you can get. Don't just play video games all day!

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5/1/07

i went to a top, ivy-league school and now work at a top ibank on the prop desk. i did absolutely nothing productive my freshman summer and it was great. get something local, but impressive next summer in order to be well prepared for a top internship for junior year.

5/5/07

Just finished my freshman year too! I went to an information session on the Investment Banking Workshop here at Indiana U. and here's what they told the freshmen and sophomores to do over the summer.

  1. Work! They said to find a finance related job if possible, but getting a decent (finance) internship just doesn't happen for freshmen and sophomores.
  2. Read and learn all you can about I-Banking. They suggested the Vault I-Banking and Finance interviews guides and the Wetfeet I-Banking book, as well as other business related books (When Genius Failed, Liar's Poker, etc).
  3. Study abroad or take an awesome trip. It will not only be a vacation, it will also provide good material to talk about in internship and job inverviews.
  4. Don't sit around and do nothing. You've got three months of no classes ahead of you, do something to build up your resume and your skills. Gain an edge over the people that don't do jack shit in the summer :)
5/6/07

Lol LuckyKarma, I'm also a freshman, and I'm doing the exact same four things this summer. The only difference is that I am volunteering by writing grants to nonprofits instead of standard work.

5/6/07

Would working at a bank be considered a finance job?

5/10/07
AgreeWitMe:

Would working at a bank be considered a finance job?

No, it wouldn't. Banks have nothing to do with finance. Or jobs.

My advice for after freshman year: Clean Pools, get drunk, and get laid. Best summer I ever had.

5/13/07

see if your family knows an accountant. if you can do some work and learn about how to connect financial statements, it will go a long way; you'd probably learn more in that than you would taking an intro ACC class. or, if you know someone in private wealth management, look to see if you can do some office filing.

if those don't work out, go for volunteering 20 hours a week, working for 25-30 for some cash, and partying the rest.

6/24/07
6/25/07

I just finished my first year and I managed to sneak into an internship at a BB firm, but I'm not doing finance-related stuff. People looking at this situation next year should network and search Monster to try to get positions outside of IBD, IMD, S&T, etc, because at least you get a BB name on your resume, right?

6/25/07

Are you at NYU or Columbia?

6/25/07

I would say go for the boutiques and try to lock something up as soon as you can (depending on your situation, even consider going unpaid if you can't find any banking internship paid). Getting banking experience early will put you ahead of a lot of your peers and should set you up very nicely for recruiting your next two summers.
Granted, a lot of this advice is second-hand, but most of it comes from people in the industry.

6/25/07

Do something in a big name company. I interned at KPMG during freshman summer, and literally did some excel crap all day long. But..the KPMG name actually helped me out in an internship after...so just get something in a decent name company and you should be OK.

Or, screw it all and travel. Don't spend it just on drinking and partying, that's kind of a waste in my opinion!

6/25/07

Spend it just on drinking and partying

6/25/07

Do whatever you're interested in, whether it's splicing rat brains in a lab, or working at a ski resort in New Zealand. All you need is a cool story you can tell in a minute in an interview, and if you're doing something interesting + fun, that should be easy.

6/25/07

-

6/25/07

Yeah this summer is the last one that doesn't really matter (sophomore summer you're looking for an internship that will help you get the MBB or whatever internship junior summer). Do something fun that sounds cool in an interview. If that means working as a trek guide in the Appalachians or doing psych research, it doesn't matter.

One of those lights, slightly brighter than the rest, will be my wingtip passing over.

6/25/07

Spend freshman summer getting drunk and "meeting" women. You will miss it very soon. When I was a freshman, I could usually count how long it had been since I had a drink in hours, now it's more like days or sometimes weeks.

When you are great, people will often mistake candor for arrogance.

6/25/07

If you have the money I would suggest studying abroad. Lots of fun, you'll learn something, and you'll have something to talk about when trying to line up a sophomore summer internship.

6/25/07

Ditto what has been said above. However, I would look into Dartmouth's Bridge Program run by Tuck for the summer after sophomore year. Its a very good program and would help you land some consulting gigs later on.

6/25/07

Start a business. It's something you don't have to interview for in order to do and it can be as rigorous of a summer experience as you want it to be. Document your activities along the way, taking note of anything that trains consulting skills (there should be tons of consulting skills you can pull from a new venture).

Even if it fails, you have a cool story to tell.

My two cents.

Proboscis

6/25/07
Proboscis:

Start a business. It's something you don't have to interview for in order to do and it can be as rigorous of a summer experience as you want it to be. Document your activities along the way, taking note of anything that trains consulting skills (there should be tons of consulting skills you can pull from a new venture).

Even if it fails, you have a cool story to tell.

My two cents.

Great suggestion. I ran a business in my fresh/soph year in college, and I literally repeated my business' story in EVERY single interview. It is an excellent indicator of many things consulting firms look for - 1) Drive, 2) Leadership, 3) Passion, 4) Brains, 5) Ballsy attitude, etc etc.

6/25/07
bbjhva:
Proboscis:

Start a business. It's something you don't have to interview for in order to do and it can be as rigorous of a summer experience as you want it to be. Document your activities along the way, taking note of anything that trains consulting skills (there should be tons of consulting skills you can pull from a new venture).

Even if it fails, you have a cool story to tell.

My two cents.

Great suggestion. I ran a business in my fresh/soph year in college, and I literally repeated my business' story in EVERY single interview. It is an excellent indicator of many things consulting firms look for - 1) Drive, 2) Leadership, 3) Passion, 4) Brains, 5) Ballsy attitude, etc etc.

Agreed. It never failed to come up in any of my college internship/full time interviews either. The earlier you do it, the more beneficial it will be for you throughout your undergrad.

Proboscis

6/25/07

that's a great suggestion! How would I go about starting my own business though...?

6/25/07

a lot of good suggestions... bottom line, make sure you enjoy it cuz being 19 and living the dream is a great place to be in life... do something business related that will transfer well to your resume if possible, and try to get some good stories... never underestimate the power of "likability" ... I'd love to go back to freshman year summer and live it up again... have fun bud and don't get too worried about the future just yet...

6/25/07

Just have fun this summer. Travel, play sports, and enjoy free time while you can still have it. Just get all A's and worry about a summer internship the summer before your junior year. However, if you are at Wharton, your competition will be much tougher. I'll leave that to Wharton kids to comment.

6/25/07

If you're at Wharton, start busting ass to get something finance-related. Even though 40% of the class ends up in banking, not everyone is at a BB...

Having a PWM or boutique ib internship on your resume will put you ahead a good part of your competition.

6/25/07

Thanks for the comments. How do you suggest that I "start busting ass?"

6/25/07
jbierce:

Thanks for the comments. How do you suggest that I "start busting ass?"

Eat some Taco Bell for breakfast. Seriously.

6/25/07
chitownanalyst:
jbierce:

Thanks for the comments. How do you suggest that I "start busting ass?"

Eat some Taco Bell for breakfast. Seriously.

LMAO. That's a great way to 'bust ass'

6/25/07

I think MDK does have, at least to some degree, the correct perspective. I think the summer after freshman year you can enjoy yourself and all that. The summer after sophmore year, however, I believe it's important to get some good experience. The junior year internships are truly the key break in point in this industry, and in order to get one of the best ones you're going to need a minimum of one good prior finance internship.

I got a part time (3 days per week) unpaid internship at a small RE investment firm my freshman summer. It was perfect because I only had to be focused those three days, I could spend a lot of time working out and playing basketball, party completely insanely 3-4 nights per week w/ my HS friends who were in town, etc... and my parents thought I was being "so responsible" getting an internship that they couldn't help picking up the tab for bottle service on the regular (half kidding - it was slightly less direct form of sponsorship than that, but you get the idea).

6/25/07
International Pymp:

I think MDK does have, at least to some degree, the correct perspective. I think the summer after freshman year you can enjoy yourself and all that. The summer after sophmore year, however, I believe it's important to get some good experience. The junior year internships are truly the key break in point in this industry, and in order to get one of the best ones you're going to need a minimum of one good prior finance internship.

I got a part time (3 days per week) unpaid internship at a small RE investment firm my freshman summer. It was perfect because I only had to be focused those three days, I could spend a lot of time working out and playing basketball, party completely insanely 3-4 nights per week w/ my HS friends who were in town, etc... and my parents thought I was being "so responsible" getting an internship that they couldn't help picking up the tab for bottle service on the regular (half kidding - it was slightly less direct form of sponsorship than that, but you get the idea).

I'm totally in the same boat as the author. Maybe not schoolwise (I go to Cal), but I'm going nuts looking for internships in this field.
I'd love to intern for any kind of firm the summer after my freshman year, but what size firms should freshmen target for the best chance of landing any kind of internship? Also, how would I go about finding those firms around my area?

6/25/07

That actually sounds ideal, if a more serious internship isn't really feasible. How did you land that job?

And I'm still wondering what other opportunities are available, and how to start working towards those, such as PWM.

6/25/07

cold call youngins..cold call

6/25/07

Who would I cold call?

6/25/07

Personally, I think you're overthinking it. It might make it harder to get a better internship next year but I doubt it as many, if not most students don't take internships after their freshman year. As far as long-term job prospects go, nobody hiring you out of college will care what you did in the summer of your freshman year so long as you got a more related internship after sophomore or junior year. Although I didn't end up working in IB, I interviewed at a BB for a few different positions and interned in ER at an upper MM firm. Nobody ever asked me about anything I did before summer of my junior year, which is fine because I didn't have any finance internships before then anyway.

As for finding female mentors, I can't imagine that would be a bad idea, so go for it!

"There's nothing you can do if you're too scared to try." - Nickel Creek

6/25/07

I also just realized that you asked for advice, not whether you should find mentors. I'd say that you should just find people on linkedin who are in the fields you want to be in, and message them or send them an email saying something along the lines of "I am looking to eventually work in ____ (area of finance that they work in). I would appreciate your advice." (don't use that exact wording). You can often guess people's work email addresses as long as they don't involve middle initials (ex: [email protected]).

Also, you should look at female-specific programs. Many of the big banks have them (including the one I interned at).

"There's nothing you can do if you're too scared to try." - Nickel Creek

6/25/07

You're a freshman and have two summers left to get "relevant" experience.. exceed expectations this summer at the non-profit, look into finance/econ clubs and orgs at your school, keep gpa high, and network.

Financial Modeling

6/25/07

Paid is unlikely. Research lower-middle market boutiques for your first choice, and then branch out to Asset Management, pwm, anything involved with the capital markets really. This term, it's great to have IB experience, but honestly you'll be a leg up on most if you have anything related.

"There are three ways to make a living in this business: be first, be smarter, or cheat."

6/25/07

Any internship at all after your fresh year is great, even better if it's in finance. Aim for PWM as they're open to underclassmen. Don't worry about classes, just join student finance clubs, have a high GPA, good looking resume and hit the pavement.

6/25/07

Also, network as much as possible. Make connections at things like career fairs and don't only mention you wanna work for them. Ask them how they got into the industry, etc. (People like talking about themselves)

6/25/07

Would you guys recommend any vault/wso guides/classes like the PWM vault guide?

6/25/07

Any advice for a freshman? Thank you

6/25/07

I bought the WSO Technical Guide. It's quite comprehensive, and it effectively summarizes the gist of most finance concepts. I'm entering college next fall btw :)

6/25/07
Gekko_KKR:

I bought the WSO Technical Guide. It's quite comprehensive, and it effectively summarizes the gist of most finance concepts. I'm entering college next fall btw :)

^^^
Agreed

I want a lady on the street, but a freak in the bed,

Go Bucks!!

6/25/07

^ please be troll

6/25/07
JeffSkilling:

^ please be troll

I'm not trolling, dude. It was constructive advice related to the OP's topic.

6/25/07

Will interviewers expect you to be knowledgable about finance concepts after freshman year?

6/25/07

Why not? Hit them up with a quick email explaining your situation and ask if they need any help. Boutique IB internships shouldn't be that hard to get, especially in NYC where they are everywhere. Try networking first and then ask about any openings. PWM would probably be your best bet, but the earlier you start looking for IB opportunities the better; they'll remember your next summer if you don't get it this time.

"I like Ackman," Mr. Icahn said. "I'll tell you why I like him. Anyone that makes me a quarter of a billion I like."

6/25/07

why settle for boutique, you should plan on being at GS, MS or bust this summer. and f pwm, go straight to BX, KKR, Citadel, or SAC.

in all seriousness, no one will take your freshman year internship seriously. honestly, you will have plenty of time to work in your career. take the summer and enjoy. read a book. watch tv. beat off all summer. and then get ready to work hard every summer after that, but wouldnt stress about freshman year

6/25/07

Of B-school?

Then yes, a huge difference. That's when you do the internship that gets you the FT offer.

If college, no.

6/25/07

I'm talking about college.

6/25/07

I do not attend a target school, but I do have a very good gpa.
What is needed to get an interview?

6/25/07

Cold call and be charming. Make a good impression.

It works well.

Also, meet as many professionals as you can (network) and see if they'll take a chance on an unknown kid.

6/25/07

Go with the no-name midmarket investment bank obvs, if you want to go in IB in future.

"I do not think that there is any other quality so essential to success of any kind as the quality of perseverance. It overcomes almost everything, even nature."

6/25/07

If you want to do banking, the no-name bank. If you don't, then anything. You're a freshman. Anything you have at this point is fantastic.

6/25/07

I took a big-name wealth management internship for my freshman year summer, and honestly it was really boring and I did not learn much. If you want to go to into ibanking I would definitely take the ibanking internship--I wish I had this option--because it will give you a leg up on other sophomores who almost definitely don't have any ibanking experience on their resume. This will help you get something bigger and better next summer. That being said, a big-name WM position still looks great on you resume, particularly as a rising sophomore, so either route is lucrative.

6/25/07

Summer school --> Transfer

6/25/07

As a senior at a non-target who is about to start an MSF program, transfer to a target at all costs. Bring up your GPA, retake the SAT if you have to, and transfer. It will make IB recruiting much, much, much easier. Oh, and get some relevant internships too. Many freshman do PWN or something of the like.

6/25/07

Does getting experience in investment banking help you to get a job in investment banking? Doubtful.

6/25/07

Yes...but honestly enjoy your freshman summer. You can get an internship during sophomore summer.

6/25/07

You should definitely try to get an internship during your sophmore summer if you want to land a BB or other top position Junior summer.... freshman summer isn't that serious, but it can be helpful to show your interest in something finance related.... most likely place to look is at the firm of a family friend or something around where your parents live... anything remotely finance related (or not even really) would be fine (banking, commercial banking, investment, am, pe, insurance companies investment arm, law firm, real estate company, etc.)

6/25/07

I'm going to Aussieland joining non-profit organization for summer. I figured I could do local or on-campus internship next year anyway. Don't stress out about it, just do whatever can make you really enjoy your time.

6/25/07

I think that doing study abroad for the summer would be a better choice. You have your sophomore and junior summers to do finance stuff. Go have fun.

6/25/07

Try to stick around at BarCap but really, you're a freshman so it doesn't matter too much

6/25/07

do you think I could try and make some money this summer and get something at Bar Cap soph. summer to set up for junior year?

6/25/07

ya that makes sense. go for it. you'll definitely need a meaningful sophomore internship i.e. not unpaid pwm

6/25/07

What would qualify as a meaningful internship?

6/25/07

Definitely the latter, but try to keep the hours low ~ 40hrs/ week so that you can still enjoy yourself

6/25/07

Pile in an SUV with three of your buddies, drive out to San Diego with no jobs and no prospects. Find a place on the beach and figure out a way to make money. You're welcome.

6/25/07

Operate your business for one more year. Looks good on a resume, especially considering fresh. summer. That being said PWM is close to equal so do whichever you'd enjoy most.

6/25/07

Sell your business, looks great on resume. Built it, made money from it while reasonable, knew I needed more relevant experience, sold it to focus on internship.

Rarely will any of my posts have enough forethought/structure to be taken seriously.

6/25/07

Thanks for the advice guys, I have been planning to do it again to build up clientele before selling, but was just making sure I wasn't setting myself too far back in a finance sense.

6/25/07

Do you know what some of your clients do for a living? Maybe when you sell it off, mention to them you are stopping your business to pursue a career in finance. Never know, they could be a good referral.

6/25/07

Follow the markets, read the standard books like: The Intelligent Investor, A Random Walk Down Wall Street, Rosenbaum & Pearl, How to Win Friends & Influence People, etc. Other than that lifeguard and play golf.

6/25/07

Yup, in conjunction with the above, I would suggest start reading SEC filings like 10ks and other legal documents. I know when I started working, those huge documents were extremely intimidating. Also would suggest reading Den of Thieves and Barbarians at the Gates if you're interested in PE

6/25/07

Like others have said, read The Intelligent Investor and other investing classics. Follow the markets everyday by reading the WSJ and watching Bloomberg TV (you can stream it online). By doing this, you will slowly become accustomed to the jargon and thought process of investing. Pick a few companies that you have an interest in, and read through their 10k's and earnings transcripts (found on Seeking Alpha). Finally, open a simulation trading account and use the knowledge you've gained through research to formulate an investment thesis, and buy/sell accordingly in your sim account. If you do this, you'll be miles ahead of most other students your age.

Don't bother learning about theoretical finance topics like WACC and CAPM. Those concepts are not difficult, and your professors will drill them into you later on in your core classes.

6/25/07

i'd say don't bother looking for ibanking if you dont have connections
try to get the best finance related internship or job you can get.

6/25/07

banking is very unlikely to happen. Start cold-emailing recruiting contacts of the fortune 500. That is how I ended up with a solid (modeling-related) internship after my fresh year when i was in college.

6/25/07

Cold calling big banks works ??? who do you call?

6/25/07

I tried finding the contacts of the fortune 500. Think you could help me out with finding them, if you don't mind.

6/25/07

Yea, I am in my Freshmen year and am interested in this too.

6/25/07

I applied for 100+ internships when I was a first year.

got less than 10 interviews. Finally worked at a prop shop in NYC. Great experience.

Be persistent!

I did everything, including emailing CEOs of boutiques, etc.

6/25/07

Go to websites. Every Fortune 500 company will have a recruiting section on their website. Submit your resume there.

6/25/07

If you are persistent something will work out

6/25/07

apply for regional bb pwm. easy to get and will give you some financial industry exposure.

6/25/07

i am a freshmen also and I'll be volunteering for a month at UN and studying abroad at China for the rest of the summer..

Why didn't I think about this before planning all those :(.

maybe I am falling behind.

6/25/07

merumerume:

i am a freshmen also and I'll be volunteering for a month at UN and studying abroad at China for the rest of the summer..

Why didn't I think about this before planning all those :(.

maybe I am falling behind.

how did you get the UN stint? just googling it now and it seems like you have to be 25 or second degree program? i'd love to work at the UN!

6/25/07

Wow, 100 apps? Did you make an individual cover letter for all of them cause that's absurd.

6/25/07

if you ask me, nobody does an internship during their freshman year, unless you have nothing better to do, which you should

6/25/07

What exactly will the banks be looking for when they recruit interns?

6/25/07

Check out the closest federal reserve branches, they generally take younger interns and take them late as well. And, as it will be suggested by most on this form, call up your local UBS/ML/MSSB private wealth management and straight up ask about intern opportunities. No need for a warm approach, they'll generally just tell you to send in a resume

6/25/07

-

"I say to him, encouragingly: "Don't worry, Dikembe, breakfast's on Blackstone."
And that's the best part about working in finance." - LSO

6/25/07

No, it's really not possible to get a bulge bracket IB internship after your freshman year, unless you're a really special minority. Those banks really have no interest in Freshmen at all, as they provide nothing of use to the bank and it's too early to entice the top talent for actual analyst positions. That being said, some banks (notably JP Morgan) have freshman programs for certain minority groups, if you fit in to that. If not, then maybe try private equity or hedge funds, as they may be willing to give a Freshman some help if they're as qualified as you say you are. You can also do some form of equity research or private wealth management, that's all the top banks want to see out of a Freshman. Also, a 3.7 gpa is good, but if you want to secure an IB internship for your Sophomore summer, I suggest getting that up to a 3.8 at least. Lastly, you said you were at Wash U. It's a great University, but it really lacks the type of name recognition on the street as other top schools. Are you in Olin? Again, Olin is a pretty good undergrad b-school, I'd suggest being in there as opposed to the general university if you're dead-set on I-banking. My best advice is just get your gpa a bit higher and try to secure any type of finance internship you can get. Or transfer to Wharton

Fuck Stringer

6/25/07

My GPA is on the lower end because I'm still pre-med -- ideally, I'd go for an MD/MBA, and I'd really want to work with financing something in the healthcare business later in life.

6/25/07

That makes sense. You realistically have 2 summers before you will for certain land an IB internship. If I were you, I'd look at possibly landing an equity research internship that allows you to concentrate on the healthcare industry. You could learn a lot about how to value various types of companies in the healthcare sector. You could leverage that type of experience into I-banking or med school, depending on what you want to do down the line. Best of luck.

Fuck Stringer

6/25/07

So would this be done by applying for internships with various boutique IBs? How many should I look to apply to? Would there be a solid chance of ultimately landing a job?

6/25/07

aspiring-analyst:

I just finished my freshman year at Michigan, and will soon hear about admission to Ross in a few weeks. My ultimate goal is to work in IBD. This summer, I will be working at a summer camp that I have worked at for the last three years. I am a little nervous, because many of my friends have landed awesome internships at a variety of financial services companies. I feel like I'm already behind not having an internship this summer. However, I will be one of two of the camp's program directors, which is kind of a high up job. Do you think that I am at a significant disadvantage to kids who already have some sort of finance experience?

I wouldn't say you're at a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage but I would say if you wanna do investment banking you are at a disadvantage.

First of all you are not at Ross and I heard transferring their is nearly impossible although I cud be wrong. Next, your friends will be much more competitive to land better sophomore internships having freshman experience.

However, you are still a freshman and you can definitely land a boutique or maybe even decent MM internship in your sophomore year if you hav a good resume and start reaching out to firms and alums. You can even reach out to them now and try to get a part time during the fall.

Overall, ther are still plenty of opportunities and ways for you to get a good job. Just start researching and being more proactive

6/25/07

^Not true at all. Every student has to apply into Ross their sophomore year. You are fine working at your camp

6/25/07

packmate:

^Not true at all. Every student has to apply into Ross their sophomore year. You are fine working at your camp

I think some students are auto-admitted as high school seniors, so they enter as freshmen already in Ross

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." --Abraham Lincoln

6/25/07

OkComputer:

packmate:

^Not true at all. Every student has to apply into Ross their sophomore year. You are fine working at your camp

I think some students are auto-admitted as high school seniors, so they enter as freshmen already in Ross

yeah thats what i thought too and I heard the transfer rate from freshman-Ross is low and the transfer rate from outside umich to Ross is almost non-existent. My source could be wrong tho

6/25/07

Your source is pretty close to right. Ross admits about 300-400 students every year for a 3-year business program. Technically students can apply after any year and still get into Ross, but they would have to stay for the full 3 years to get their BBA. Also, transferring from another school directly into Ross is nearly impossible. Non-existent would be an accurate characterization.

For OP, you are really not at a disadvantage. I am a fellow student at Michigan and I will be working in IBD this summer at a fairly well-known boutique in NYC. I worked at a golf course as a "cart manager" after my freshman year. Further, I did not get into Ross and still was able to find an internship in IB. It all comes down to networking and wanting to breaking in. Also look into some clubs and groups that are finance and even investment banking focused to bolster your resume. I am in a couple groups like this. PM if you have any specific questions or are interested in groups to get involved with.

6/25/07

The admissions rate for Ross is much higher when you apply your freshman year than it is when you apply for the pre-admit program as a high school senior. I think its like 35 to 40 percent.

6/25/07

oh then i was wrong about Ross, my bad. you are fine working at the camp but i would start researching and potentially reaching out to firms you are interested in your sophomore year. So regional boutiques and lower MMs are good

6/25/07

Take whatever you can get. Banks aren't going to be banging at your door as a freshman.

6/25/07

I'd like to know any kind of real advice on this as well.

6/25/07

apply for the sophomore rotational programs.. i came across a resume of an upcoming soph who just finished the prog with a BB

6/25/07

What type of role would you be assuming at a boutique bank internship?

If it is working as a summer analyst in IBD, then that would definitely be better than a bs PWM internship.

Another possible idea is working as Research Assistant on a finance-related project with a Professor.

6/25/07

use all connections, and talk to your friends dads. i know someone my age (incoming sophomore) who did an ER internship at a BB bcuz he got an interview thanks to his cousin who is a senior associate in M&A.

also use Monstertrak.com and doostang.com and visit company websites to apply EVERYWHERE. send resumes and cover letters everywhere u can

good luck man! worse comes to worse do PWM, but any freshman can get that and its really nothing special but it shows that ur not a lazy ass and willing to do SOMETHING ur freshman summer

6/25/07

thanks for the info. also, other than the sophomore rotational program, what can a freshman hope to do at a boutique, and how would one go about getting an internship at the boutique. Do you just cold call the HR departments and if so when should you? Thanks again.

6/25/07

sophomore rotational programs are for those that just finished sophomore year going to be juniors.

search these forums theres stuff on it already but being in nyc even though your all the way up in harlem can be used to your advantage as there are many opportunitites with tons of boutiques and some lower tier firms.

6/25/07

whats better sophomore rotational at a BB or ER at a BB? im told that ER as a sophomore usually leads into SA as a junior

6/25/07

Sophomore rotational at a BB. .it should definitely lead to a SA.

we had a bunch of kids from the Citi sophomore rotational program interview at our firm 2 weeks ago. tho stay away from Citi cuz the program there is sketchy to say the least.

6/25/07
mower4ever:

Sophomore rotational at a BB. .it should definitely lead to a SA.

we had a bunch of kids from the Citi sophomore rotational program interview at our firm 2 weeks ago. tho stay away from Citi cuz the program there is sketchy to say the least.

just curious, whats wrong with the citi program...i think it was their first year doing the program so it might have obviously had some "bumps"

6/25/07
vdubs1503:
mower4ever:

Sophomore rotational at a BB. .it should definitely lead to a SA.

we had a bunch of kids from the Citi sophomore rotational program interview at our firm 2 weeks ago. tho stay away from Citi cuz the program there is sketchy to say the least.

just curious, whats wrong with the citi program...i think it was their first year doing the program so it might have obviously had some "bumps"

from the story we heard at our bank, it's potrayed as crap shit. Surprising enough, Citi is known for its ability to mix people of different backgrounds together(both school & race)but for some reason it wasn't done.

there was a kid we interviewed from Citi who already had an offer from GS/MS( i work for one of them) so the interview process turned from a question and answer session to a sincere view on how his summer went though we had already heard these stories. Like everyone says, Wall st is pretty small and info spreads pretty fast.

The only kudos to Citi is that their soph rotational resume book was the best resume book i saw out of all the rotational programs tho i had some reservations.

p.s i should just move from banking to hr. i'm so into resumes and interviews et al

6/25/07

sorry for the stupid question but what does PWM stand for, i couldn't really find it in google, the only definitions i am getting are that are related to electrical engineering?

6/25/07

private wealth management?
so like financial advisors for rich old folks?

6/25/07

I spent my freshman summer as a lifeguard. It was way better than either internship I had in the following summers.

You're still young - might I suggest you enjoy the first summer after starting school?

6/25/07

anyone?

6/25/07

Do whatever, to be honest. I did a PWM internship at Smith Barney my freshman year doing nothing but cold-calling, and then didn't do anything my sophomore year but serve some tables, watch the World Cup, and go the beach. And I did that as a student at a non-target, so being from Columbia puts you in a better place.

Looking back on it, the PWM internship was definitely a decent starting point but don't overwork yourself, I hated every day I worked at the PWM internship and wish I had that summer back to spend with my friends.

6/25/07

That's what I did over freshman summer; one of the best decisions of my life.

6/25/07

Look at corporate internships at Fortune 500 companies. I worked at TXU on their commodities trading floor as an analyst intern. Great experience/starting point.

6/25/07

Anything preferably related to finance, however anything in accounting, business, operations will help because it shows that you were an aggressive go-getter... if not just go travel or something freshman summer isn't critical.

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6/25/07

Im in agreement with the previous post. Don't do a damn thing this summer! Go back home with your two semesters and great GPA intact and under your belt, go get a summer job at a law firm as a copy assistant, and try to sleep with everything moving. You've got your whole life to do this man. Keep abreast of deals in the market, news etc., do some ancillary reading on market trends and read up on some corp finance for beginners or intermediate level students in your spare time if you can...

In other words, don't be ready to trade in your youth for the pursuit of financial gain just yet...you'll need plenty of memories to get you past those late hours in your cube next year.

"Cut the burger into thirds, place it on the fries, roll one up homey..." - Epic Meal Time

6/25/07

I did one in a financial reporting department of an operating company. Learned a ton about modeling, was way ahead of my peers and made a decent amount of money too.

Best to get a paid one, because they're usually better experience and people know that.

6/25/07

I'm also in the same position. One of my friends whose now a sophomore was suggesting ML's global private client program, but I don't know how that will turn out.

6/25/07

The guy is a freshman guys...I should have known you two guys were trekkies...you guys headed to that convention this year too huh...Bring me back a vulcan poster...

"Cut the burger into thirds, place it on the fries, roll one up homey..." - Epic Meal Time

6/25/07

Conan O'Brien + trekkies = hilarity

6/25/07

I just went through this a couple years ago..

I interned with Smith Barney private wealth management for the summer. I made some decent money and I learned a few things, but at the end of the day I don't know if it was worth it. I realized at the end of it that you only get a couple summers to enjoy yourself once you get into college and you should make use.

Hang out for a summer and get a serving job or something else that you can make some money on. Go to the beach, do whatever it is you want to do. If you want to improve your standing for the future, buy a couple good investing books and read them - Accidental Investment Banker, You Can Be A Stock Market Genius, something along those lines..

For me, the 8-5, the wasting of the summer in an office while all of my hometown friends enjoyed it, knowing we didn't have that many to go, made me go nuts..

If you want to start with an internship, try one during second semester sophomore year or summer after sopohomore year. If you read up, you can impress in the interviews you may get and land a gig that way.

6/25/07

if you really want to do the IB thing early then, I know JP Morgan has JP Morgan Honors Program, that accepts graduating freshmen and sophomores.

Deadline is probably soon though.

6/25/07

Make sure you keep your grades up and try to develop a good relationship with profs. More often than not, a prof. will be able to refer you to something. You might also need letters of recs down the road so make sure there are a couple profs. that know you well.

Get involved in various organizations this semester and begin to position yourself for future leadership type roles on campus your soph/junior year. It wouldn't be a bad idea to spend the summer volunteering in the fundraising/finance department of your favorite local non-profit. For instance, you can help coordinate a fundraising campaign over the summer. If that doesn't float your boat, you can always travel, coach, etc. At this point, showing initiative, leadership, and having an impact is more important than actual finance experience imo.

During your sophomore year, apply for an international summer internship through the global fellows program. I suggest you look over the application now so you have a general idea of what kinds of questions they ask and what they are looking for. International experience is a differentiator.

If you do that, you should have no problem getting interviews.

good grades + on campus leadership positions + international experience = good chance at getting interviews

6/25/07

The person above me seems to have the best advice.

Another point that nobody appears to have touched on is NETWORKING. If you're really that bored, see if you can make some contacts. Doing it this early on can only help you; by the time you're a junior or senior looking for analyst spots, you'll be better off if you've "known someone" for 3 or 4 years, instead of 2 or 3 months.

Do not kill yourself scheduling a dozen informational interviews, though.

6/25/07

For me, i just wanted a light job that i could turn into a strength. I ended up doing technology stuff (fixing computers from 10-5) for my summers before soph and junior year.

At the interviews, i told them how it was hard to get my foot into the financial world since we dont have enough experience/knowledge (and the interviewers know all about it too some started to speak about their same experiences).

So for my interviews, i transformed my technology jobs into making it sound like strong IT skills and said that since i couldn't get into the finance jobs i wanted to do everything else i could to better myself to be ready for a finance job and it was true and the interviewers bought it very well. Basically i think whatever you do for the summer, just make sure its something that you can make it seem as a big strength in preparing you for the summer analyst/1st year analyst jobs you'll be interviewing for in the later years.

6/25/07
pubfinmonkey:

Basically i think whatever you do for the summer, just make sure its something that you can make it seem as a big strength in preparing you for the summer analyst/1st year analyst jobs you'll be interviewing for in the later years.

So would you argue that reading AIB, watching CNBC (starting to form a crush on Bartiromo lol), and going over WACC and CAPM models is sufficient? I also write articles recommeding certain stocks and distribute them accross the web.

Nevertheless, I sent my resume for the JPM's honors program today.

6/25/07

"I sent my resume for the JPM's honors program today."
hey did u include a cover letter or did you briefly talk about yourself in that space they provided for statement of interest

6/25/07

Jimmy, I sent in my resume for the honors program at JP Morgan as well.

I just talked about how the program was an awesome opportunity because of the networking, working with accomplished people and getting an early hand-on experience in IB. I followed this up with how my dedication to academics, activities and service will be able to make my summer and possibly future experience at JPM a rewarding one.

6/25/07

did u have a specific cover letter attached to your cv though or did u just a give a brief description with only a cv attached

6/25/07

I didn't send a cover letter just resume as asked. I would think if they wanted one they would request it?

6/25/07

Yeah I did the same as grandpabuzz. I just sent my resume as asked and typed in a brief description for the cover letter area.

6/25/07

Gpbuzz, did you just type in a brief description as well in the cover letter area?

6/25/07

thats what i did

6/25/07

good, now I don't feel like I screwed something up.

Jimmy, did you write along the same lines of great networking, accomplished colleagues and early experience in IB industry and then add some of what you bring to the company too?

6/25/07

i mentioned a lot of the deals/ipos/stats relative to other ibanks JPMorgan has accomplished, praised the management lol, and basically explained my situation of how i have done valuation techniques before, network with other jpmorgan employees, and just a sincere interest in ibanking. i checked on word and it was about 353 words: hopefully satisfactory enough

i'm just so glad i got a 4 this previous semester lol

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