I graduated from a target university in Europe and started out in the M&A group of a bulge bracket bank. I then moved on to private equity, with the wish to concentrate on the middle market. My fund concentrates on a single geographic region with a specific focus on two industries.
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People usually do PE > B - School. And THEN what? What do you plan on doing after PE and what have you seen your friends do?
Is your girlfriend a 10/10? Do you have a girlfriend? Do you enjoy your job? What do you see yourself doing in the future? How much money did you make last year?
How do you like the PE life style? How different is it from IB lifestyle?
Did you do banking in NYC, or Europe?
Did you do your banking/pe in Europe as well?
Is PE the dreamland people perceive it to be? Or is that just a misconception?
How big is the competition in PE? What stuff was crucial to your career in PE? Are marketing skills important?
How many hours do you work per week on average?
Pros/Cons of M&A/IB vs. PE in terms of work, lifestyle, pay, co-workers, etc.
What do you like most about PE?
Good question. I have seen several paths actually. Some people just stay in PE and advance up the ranks. Some people exit to HFs, but that usually happens more across junior people. I have also seen people leave to be CEOs or on the board of a former portfolio company or become Professors at business schools. The latter is probably the one that will give you the most free time with decent pay.
I personally haven't thought about what I want to do afterwards, as I am enjoying myself right now. When the time comes, I will probably consider one of the options outlined above.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Become filthy rich. More than you.
I like the lifestyle at my fund a lot, as it is very different from the BB IBD and also Megafund lifestyle that has been covered so much on WSO. If we are not working on a live transaction, my life is pretty chilled. I usually roll in at 9.30am, go to the gym at 12 and then come back at 2 after lunch for some more work and then leave at 6. Work wise I don't only do modeling or analysis, I also travel to meet intermediaries, CEOs/Entrepreneurs or to attend board meetings of portfolio companies.
Europe.
Yes, both in Europe.
I guess that largely depends on you. I can say that I am very happy at my current firm, as the freedom and autonomy I have is unbelievable. I have friends at all the megafunds as well and I can pretty much say that I am the one who is the least miserable ;)
Competition is pretty big, especially given that most people who come into M&A groups want to exit to PE ASAP. Unfortunately, there aren't as many spots as there are analysts, so some people actually stick around in Banking until they are Associate 2 or 3 and then exit. So, if you do get interviews, I'd advise you to bring your A-Game.
I think the thing that I would rank as being the most crucial was my network that I started building when I was back in undergrad. It helped me a lot as I actually got to interview via a referral from my network with my current firm. So network, network, network, even if you work in IBD and barely sleep.
Knowing how to market yourself is always important, especially in the finance industry. If you are unsure how to approach this, there is a wide variety of books available. I'd recommend Life's a Pitch by Broughton.
What were your most favorite deals you worked on in both IB and PE?
How did you get more familiarized with the 2 industries your PE firm focuses on?
Thanks.
That really depends, but in quiet times it's usually between 50-60 and in transactions times its between 80-90.
That's a pretty wide questions. I guess that the pros in PE can be summed up like this: Pay, autonomy, intellectually stimulating work. This goes also for the cons of M&A in comparison: Less pay, take shit all day and mind-numbing number crunching. In terms of co-workers I actually enjoyed banking more, because my analyst class was a lot of fun and we had really good times inside and outside of the office. In PE everything is a tad more professional and you are expected to behave in a more mature way. This is important to keep in mind, especially when going for interviews.
That it allows me to work autonomous, meet interesting people, gain knowledge of a wide variety of firms in their respective industries and actually allows for a decent life outside of the office as well. Ah yeah, the pay isn't too shabby either.
Can't really disclose as this would give me away, but to be broad, in IB it was a leveraged buyout of financial technology provider and with my current funds the acquisitions of a digital healthcare producer.
By reading, reading, reading, reading and reading. Oh yeah, I also did a lot of reading. All jokes aside, just read everything that you can get your hands on, incl. industry magazines, market research reports, current marketing materials from firms that you are looking at etc. What also helped a lot was that I was allowed to meet with CEO and business owners right from the start which helped to understand their firm and their industry better. Additionally, my firm gave me a lot of material to, you guessed it, read.
did you have a guideline after going into ib? (ib>pe>bschool) (ib>hf>bschool) or you just went with it and took opportunities as they came?
Where in Europe are you? Any advice for PE interviews & breaking into PE from a boutique? How important is the group in IB to breaking into PE, for example FIG?
Thanks in advanced.
Why did you do MM PE and not MEGA?
If you read above, he didn't land the offer for a couple mega funds. The MM was his last option
How difficult is it to move to PE from consulting?
I wanted to get into Private Equity, but I was sure that I wanted to do it without Business School. As far as recruiting goes, I just took every interview my headhunter got me.
I am in the most beautiful part ;)
As far as advice for PE interviews go, just prepare as good as you can and make sure that you can also answer questions that require you to make assumptions, ie working capital related stuff like average DSO etc.
Breaking into PE from a boutique is the same as from a BB. What kind of interviews you get depends on your boutique. If you are at Lazard or Greenhill, I know from friends etc. that they get the same as GS/MS/JPM etc. If you are at Downer, you probably will get more middle market funds.
In regards to specific teams, it doesn't matter in my opinion. If you are able to tell them about a deal and how you helped to advance that deal and actually created value, you're golden.
Because I interviewed with several megafunds incl. BX, Silver Lake, Carlyle etc. and thought that it was banking all over again and asked myself whether this route was the one I wanted to take. I decided against it, because I didn't feel that the route of 2 years at the megafund followed by business school are what I envisioned myself doing.
not entirely accurate, see response to futurewaller
I would imagine that it is a lot more difficult than coming from most IBD groups, just due to the nature of the work and how it is very similar to banking. Additionally, the banking skill set is important to PEs. However, in past years there has been a shift from solely financial engineering to concentrating on operational engineering and thus consultants have become more and more sought after in PE recruiting. If you come from McKinsey or Bain you should be fine, everything else I am unsure of. Usually funds like Permira, Warburg Pincus, Blackstone and similar megafunds recruit consultants as well.
real questions all the kids want to know:
1) are you considered to be less successful than your friends working at megafunds? 2) who earns more - your MF friends or you? 3) how prestigious is your fund (do you have ex GS/MS/BX analysts or is it random lower tier BB people)? 4) how much do you make and how much can you make? 5) is Europe much more boring than USA? 6) what car do you drive? 7) what is your most expensive piece of jewellery? 8) where in Europe are you located? Germany? 9) which industries do you cover? 10) how old are you?
1) not by them. i guess a few kids on WSO will do so, though. 2) Given that I know what they earn, I can actually give an intelligent answer to that question: My base is lower, but my bonus/carry/additional compensation through advisory board positions is higher. All in all I probably make slightly more. 3) I don't know if my fund is prestigious tbh. I am the only non-Harvard MBA working there though. 4) A lot. Probably more than 90% of people on WSO. 5) Nope, I don't think so. They both have their advantages, but I think the scale tips slightly in favor of Europe. 6) CL 63 AMG 7) Rolex Daytona or Hublot Big Bang - I am unsure how to count this as I got one as a gift. 8) Continental Europe. 9) I will award a silver banana to whoever can guess them. Here's a hint: They are both increasingly becoming larger percentages of the developed world's GDP. 10) in my twenties, heading straight for 30 though...
How difficult is it to break into PE from a IB coverage group? I.e. real estate, FI, diversified, mining, etc?
Clean Tech & Renewable Energy
Healthcare and energy.
Energy & Technology?
Matrick - Is it hard to transfer from a hedge fund to a PE firm?
Does a hedge fund provide the necessary skills to work at a PE?
Do you plan on staying in PE long term? If so, will you have to take a break and do bschool to make VP? From the fact that you mentioned carry, it sounds like maybe you can just go straight through in the same firm.
1) You keep repeating that you love the autonomy that you get in PE. Can you elaborate? 2) Which is the most challenging part of your job? 3) Most difficult question that you faced during your PE interviews? 4) How would you manage if you lose the thing that you love the most about the job (ie, autonomy) and get a micro-manager senior? (Currently facing this problem and seeing no way out)
Thanks a lot for your time and responses!
You're close ...
I don't think that is it more difficult to get into PE from a coverage group. Of course, there are some coverage groups that are looked upon more favorably by headhunters and thus these people receive more interviews early on, but I met guys from Oil & Gas teams go to all the megafunds. What really matters is that you can differentiate yourself in the interview process by talking intelligently about your deal experience and how you helped to advance that deal.
Also close, but no.
Wow that's a good question...I have only seen this move once done by a guy who is now at Blackstone. He started as an analyst at a Hedge Fund and that fund went down after 1.5 years of existence. The guy then started interviewing again and landed position with Blackstone's Real Estate PE team. I think that also makes sense, given the macro view REPE guys have to have.
Given that I have only seen one guy do it, I would assume that the move is either difficult or not looked upon favorably due to various factors (monetary and non-monetary).
At the moment I like the idea of staying in PE for the long-term, but I will not take a break for Business School. This is mainly driven by the fact that I don't have to as I can just advance within my firm. Additionally the emphasis on business school, especially for MBA, isn't that big in Europe.
1) In essence, I am free to source deals, travel for the firm, talk to owners of business I consider potential investments and pursue potential deals further by myself until a certain point. Combine that with the fact that I can decide to work from home any day I want, gives me not only autonomy at the workplace, but also the freedom to design my life outside the office as I wish.
2) The most challenging part are the parts that involve a lot of human interaction, ie first meetings with CEOs or Entrepreneurs, negotiating with aforementioned people when wanting to buy their business etc. I find these to be the hardest, because I have noticed that a lot of the Entrepreneurs in the middle market are very emotional and don't act rational, which one one hand in understandable, but on the other hand makes life for you as investor so much more difficult.
3) Having to simultaneously do an LBO on Paper, while talking about the interest section on my resume, with the interviewer occasionally throwing out a few pieces of information. Try doing mental math while talking, or having 2 conversations at the same time at the same speed and you know what I mean.
4) I would immediately call my head hunter and try to get interviews at other places or try to get into business school as soon as possible and just enjoy a 1 or 2 year vacation. This probably sounds understandable to some and looks like a total overreaction to some, but this is entirely driven by the fact that I had such a manager when I was an Analyst at my bank and he made my life very miserable. I know I probably shouldn't say this, but the day that he was fired, was one of the happiest of my entire Analyst stint. The number of all-nighters I had to pull because of him is not even funny anymore.
Funny anecdote on the side: Now before mentioned MD is at another bank (focused on the middle market), and I regularly meet with him for breakfast or lunch meetings so he can show me potential targets he came up with. Incredibly how perspectives and people's behaviour can change once you sit on the other side of the table.
Thank you for your response and for taking the time to do this. One of the most insightful threads on WSO in recent times.
Thanks again!
Hi, Great thread and thanks again for doing this.
What would you say are the chances in europe of transferring from a PE FoF to a buyout shop like yours? Just landed an offer at a FoF and wanna keep my eyes open. As far as my recruiting efforts have shown, its not impossible to get into a buyout via FoF esp. in Europe where we dont have that 2yr IBD-2yr KKR-2yr HBS crap thats in the usa and fucks pretty much 99% of the monkeys over there.
To be honest, my experience with FoF is basically non-existing, but I think that you are right in your view about Europe vs. US. If you put the necessary effort in and network properly, you can easily manage to get into a good buyout fund.
I think I explained my reasoning in a previous post, but here you go again: mega funds are like banking all over again, at least in the first few years. I found the opportunities to build a network and take on more responsibility early more intriguing than going through another 2 years of the banking lifestyle. I'm sure that this something that most monkeys on here don't understand or rather dont want to understand, but it's seems pretty logical to me that if you get the chance to work for a fund that not only pays well, but also allows you to do the things necessary to be a lot more valuable to all funds in the next few years, I think the choice joules be pretty clear. At the junior level people get hired or their skills, at the senior level (regardless of fund) people get hired for their networks.
Also, I mentioned that I am mid-twenties above before. I don't understand the curiosity about my girlfriend to be honest, but just to fuel your fire: yes, she actually was but then decided to pursue a career in, you guessed it, PE. Trophy wife looks + intellectual fire power to compete with all these snobs in finance = instant win.
As for your shit detector, that's usually the case when people get jealous or don't believe something because they aren't where they want to be in life. Misery needs company, please don't look for mine though.
Healthcare and tech
So that SB...
Why would you go to a mega fund and do the same shit all over again. Do 2 or 3 years in banking and your perspective will shift..
Energy and transportation?
What's your total household income? And give us a damn number, its not like we can figure out who you are if you combine your girlfriend and your income.
What's your favorite vacation destination?
Telecommunications + Energy
Exactly my point ...
Well played, sir ... total household income (just base) ~320k
Hard to say, I checked out all the places that are usually considered to be hot like St. Tropez, Monaco, Kitzbuehel, Cannes etc. but I personally still find the US or Latin America to be the best vacation spots. I really like the West Coast or Brazil, just to give you an example.
Nope
How does after-tax pay in Europe compare to what your counterparts in the US receive? You do not need to mention specific numbers.
Healthcare and Tech
Also: What does a normal day look like for you from wake to rest? Could you give us a brief outline?
is the 320k in usd or what currency?
Can you please elaborate on how you would utilize a headhunter (I'm not quite sure how to use them)? Also what are the some of the corporate perks you get working in PE? Thanks in Advance
Thanks for the thread. Much appreciated
Here are my questions:
1- Do you often see former management consultants in MM or mega fund PE firms?
2- From what you've seen so far, do you feel that the CFA is worth the pain in the Private Equity world?
Thanks.
My counterparts in the US would make more than me if income was the same, as the tax rate in the US is lower than where I'm located.
Typical day during calm times looks like this: 8:00am - Get up, read FT 9:30am - Come into the office 9:45am - order coffee, check emails, small talk, surf the web 10:30am - Call with investors, business owners, intermediaries, maybe work on some models or research noon - lunch 2:00pm - more meetings or calls or modeling/research 5:30pm - go home, gym, etc.
Typical day during busy days: 8:00 am - get up, read FT 9:00 am - come into the office, read emails, look at meeting schedule, etc. 9:15 am - call with investors, lawyers, due diligence, further improvements on the model 10:30am - more lawyer meetings or meetings with business owner noon - lunch at my desk to get back to due diligence 3:00pm - accountants meetings, consultant meetings, meetings with industry experts 5:00pm - review model and investment committee memo with new findings etc. 8:00pm - go to the gym then go home and review emails etc., to further make improvements on the presentation (and everything related to that) for the comittee
That's about it...
...Euro
Usually you just let them know that you exist and that you are interested in opportunities within PE that may fit your profile. Usually they will get back to you, sometimes they won't. It's all about getting them to notice you. Once they noticed you they will approach you over and over with new roles.
Corporate Perks at my fund are the usual stuff you know from banks, ie food, cab home, gym membership, corporate car, etc. I don't use any of them, except for the occasional dinner.
How often does your work require you to travel?
At my fund there are two former consultants, both with Harvard MBAs. I think that they are becoming more and more common at megafunds, but I think that bankers still dominate in both segments. I think that for the MM being a consultant can actually be an advantage because depending on where in the life cycle of the firm you invest, growth can easily be driven by stuff that consultants have seen over and over. My fund is concentrated on buyouts but more towards growth equity investments, as we look for companies that have hidden potential and may grow a lot in the next few years. This also means that we are rather operational oriented, because we actively help to build out the business through internationalization, optimization of their expenses, etc. All in all this is a very good example of the symbioses of financial and operational engineering.
I personally have never considered getting the CFA, but I know that a few people tried to get Level 1 when I was an Analyst. I am unsure how helpful this would be for PE and I think I remember that it is extremely expensive and requires a lot of time spent studying. I would think that you can spend that time doing other stuff like networking, having fun, learning more about other stuff that is related to PE etc. Just my opinion of course, maybe there is a fund out there that requires you to have the CFA in order to advance up the ranks, i don't know.
Matrick, first of all, thanks for doing this.
1) Is your current job located in the same country as your former banking gig? Or did you do the banking stint in London and exited to your PE firm in Continental Europe (Germany, right? Nobody needs an AMG in a country with a speed limit ;)
2) Have you been interested in a HF/VC/Corporate Development career as well or was it more like PE or nothing?
I understand that you also studied in continental Europe, where masters are more prevalent. So did you get your masters degree before your BB stint or did you start directly after undergraduate?
Interesting stuff Matrick, cheers.
I've heard that IBD in London pay-wise hasn't really recovered since 2008. You still get to work 18hrs a day but bonuses have been pretty low. Is it true?
Do you reckon that someone without prior M&A experience, yet coming from a specific geographic location from Europe might have a real chance to break into PE which focuses/ is willing to invest in that region?
tks for the reply.
not to be creepy, but are you an associate or an analyst? just last fall you wrote a thread saying you were having a hard time breaking into PE/IB and posted your cv (bocconi I assume). thats some exceptional networking to jump directly into associate from summer analyst....or maybe im missing something?
Yeah, not to be a dick, but a lot of this thread seems to me to be potentially misleading, in light of the fact that the OP:
1) Inquired about SA offers for BB banks in January 2012 2) Inquired about going directly from undergrad to PE Analyst in May 2012 3) Inquired about going directly from undergrad to HF in May 2012 4) Inquired about BX PE Analyst interviews in September 2012 5) Inquired about Evercore London FT recruiting in December 2012 6) Posted his CV, indicating his most recent experience was as an SA in December 2012
This may be a matter of titling differences in Europe, and I may be off-base here, but some things don't add up here. The OP's indicated salary range, suggestions that he used headhunters, comparisons of IB to PE, etc. all seem to imply a move from FT IB to PE through the traditional 2+2 process. Going straight to PE out of undergrad typically entails an Analyst title, and rarely involves a headhunter (at least in the US).
Feel free to make me look like a dick now. I can attest that, at the very least, a lot of this is very well-informed, even if a bit misleading at first glance. And, of course, the OP is certified, which adds credibility. I'm just curious about how all of this adds up.
I agree. Also I am intrigued by the OP's suggestion that he has plenty of freedom to source deals, travel to meet with company managements, work from home anytime at his discretion...all the while being an analyst/associate. This is very unusual even for most MM PE firms.
Still I would like to give him the benefits of the doubt. My question is, what is the AUM of the current fund? Is this the only fund currently being actively managed at your firm? How many other funds has your firm raised before? Also is your firm raising another vehicle in the near future? If so are you involved in the fundraising effort in anyway (e.g. sourcing and meeting with potential investors)?
Agreed. I have seen firms being flexible on one or more of these items, but it's rare to find a firm that permits all, unless we are talking about a Still I would like to give him the benefits of the doubt.
[/quote]
I'm with you, but I think some clarification is necessary.
I'm particularly interested in the boldface portion of your answer above. I have never heard of PE Associates being paid over-and-above their cash compensation for board advisory positions. Is this practice common at your fund?
In my dealings with PE groups I find they do a stupid amount of due diligence on things that aren't really as crucial as they PE groups think they are i.e. sales histories, the financials, yada yada yada. I know these are important things to look into but I find the obsession with the numbers to be insane. Why don't more PE firms focus on the things that truly matter. Like the products, the people, the industry. To me any group of idiots can come in do a valuation on a company's books, their assets, and see if there is enough meat to pick off to get their money back and then try and run the company more leanly. I don't get this philosophy, why is it so prevalent in an industry that to be honest from personal experience has a poor track record of investing in and continuing successful companies.
This comment echos many previous discussions. However, to be honestly, how much substantive contribution can an analyst make to a deal? What is the biggest contribution to a deal made by analysts you have seen?
what were your qualifications? averages/ GMAT? what schools in london do you rate the most? What do you talk about mostly in the office, sport/ technology? Whats your greatest advice in regards to networking and forming relationships where you can use people down the track and how do you go about doing this? What have been your greatest mistakes? What advice do you have for people wanting to get in? Does a quant major help you get in? How do you spot opportunities/ solve problems such as buying a business from someone with an emotional attachement and where do you start?
I travel around 2-3 days a week.
1) Banking in London, PE in Europe - and yes for Germany. I don't agree in your comment regarding the AMG though...have you seen how many Lambos, Ferraris and AMGs there are in London or the US for that matter? 2) Not really, I was always focused on PE. In hindsight that was pretty narrow minded, but luckily it played out for the best.
I got a master degree, yes. That's what I have seen most people do nowadays actually.
Well, there are many surveys and statistics (ie from Darthmouth Partners), that show pretty accurately where bonuses are at currently and these levels are lower than 2008.
Well that depends on what your experience is? If you were a bank teller chances aren't that good, if you did some form of consulting your chances increase largely. As for the geographic advantage: Yes, generally that's the case in the Nordics, France, Germany, etc. But again, you need to have some form of related experience beforehand.
I am an Associate. While it is true, that I posted that, I posted that while I was interviewing and trying to get more PE interviews. As for it being exceptional networking, I don't necessarily agree, but yes as I wrote earlier my networking efforts paid off and that's how I got the interview with my current fund. I also had numerous other interviews with funds that I didn't get through my own network, but through headhunters. All in all I would say that getting this job was a combination of being lucky and being prepared. If there is real interest in this, I can go into more detail about how I actually got this job.
And we found the Sherlock Holmes of this thread...
Yes, I did post what you sherlocked before, but there are two things to note here. One, not everything that I inquired about was for myself. Number two, sometimes more stuff changes in 2 weeks then in 2 years, which was exactly the case for me. As I wrote above, I can go into more detail how I got this job and why I made such jump if there is real interest from the community.
As for your comments: I used headhunters, I didn't do the traditional 2+2 (I was headhunter after my first summer analyst stint), and I am entailed an Associate title.
I don't quite understand why you think you'd look like a dick now, as all of these questions are valid, but I am curious to hear why you think that some of the things that I say are "a bit misleading at first glance"? Where does your experience diverge from what I answered to the questions?
Well, I guess my firm is pretty unusual to the normally applied standards then. I wouldn't change that for shit, though ;)
Current AUM is
Well, we are talking about
Yes, it is common. Usually all members of our team who worked on a deal (usually 2-3 people) get advisory board positions remunerated at different rates depending on size of the firm. I think as my firm grows in the future though, this will change and be reduced to only senior level people. Hopefully, not too soon though ;)
I guess it is so prevalent because it is, as you pointed out correctly, relatively easy and allows the fund managers to go to their investors (remember that business people love numbers) and tell them look at our numbers, projections etc., this is a great investment! I agree, that a lot of these approaches lead to failed investments, but I am sure that this approach has been replaced by a more thorough and more operationally oriented approach. If you look at a lot of funds today, regardless of size, you always have at least a few people with a strong background on the operational side, which means that the operational side and actually understanding products, people, the respective industry has become more important to each fund.
If you look at the funds that perform very well for their investors in terms of returns (there is an HEC Paris survey out there somewhere), you will see that these well performing funds are all funds that have adopted the financial + operational engineering approach.
As for the "stupid amount of due diligence"...well what can I tell you? Imagine your ass is on the line when you have to justify a failed investment, that should give you an idea of why people may be super anal about so many due diligence items and re-run stuff a thousand times. It gives you peace of mind and some factual basis to argue that it wasn't a bad judgement call should shit go down the drain.
Well, good question. I agree that there really isn't a lot that you as analyst can do to add value to a deal. But generally speaking, you can always add value by delivering new insights (pretty difficult tbh, especially with industry bankers) or by doing something that will drive the purchase price up or down (depending on which side you're on). The latter can be done relatively easily when you play around assumptions, etc. Of course you have to base your assumptions on some factual basis, but I am pretty sure that you can always find some research report supporting what you throw out there. Additionally, you can always add value by coming up with new ideas constantly and trying to show that you are actually involved. Some people say that seniors look unfavorably upon this because you as the analyst of course should only crunch numbers and shut up, but my experience in this regard differs.
I give you a super simple example from my own experience at my current fund: We recently acquired a company for which I was on the deal team. I was the one who originally sourced the deal, so I knew the company pretty well. Additionally, I was also responsible for the model. When we got access to detailed financials, I noticed that their cash balance on their balance sheet was super low. This was due to the owner always extracting cash to finance his own lifestyle (something you often times find in the middle market btw). I looked at it and thought that they could never ever finance their working capital if they couldn't collect Receivables on time etc., so I went and added a "minimum cash balance" switch to the model, which calculated the minimum cash balance that theoretically would need to be on the balance sheet to finance the working capital without having to use a revolver etc. It turned out that the company was short in that (Balance Sheet Cash - Minimum Cash Balance = Excess Cash), meaning they had negative excess cash. The amount that they were short I then subtracted from the original purchase price, effectively lowering the purchase price by the amount our fund would have to bring in to have the adequate minimum cash balance. We ended up paying that amount (also using a vendor loan, so actual money out was even lower) and the seniors at my firm loved it so much, that they paid me a mid-year bonus because I effectively saved them millions. I think that's a good example of how to add value as an analyst/associate.
You're welcome, glad you like :) I thought it maybe a good idea to do this, as most of the stuff I applied during recruiting etc. I learned from WSO so I wanted to give something back. I hope that this helps other prospective monkeys!
Thanks man! So, did you contact headhunters in Germany, or are headhunters in London also trying to fill positions in Continental Europe?
There are obviously plenty of those cars in London or NYC, but let's be honest. Having a car like that in Germany is much more fun than in London. I'm not one of those persons who like to drive a car like that in a city from one traffic light to the next. But driving a car like yours on the autobahn A7 in the south or parts of the A9 is what I'm talking about ;)
Well I hold an MSc, was top 10% in both graduate and undergraduate and had a >700 GMAT.
LSE and Imperial. Oxbridge is unrivaled still. Heard that one kid from SOAS got into GS MBD this summer though. May need to add SOAS to that list ;)
Actually most of the talk in the office is about our work. When I talk to our analysts (yes, we also have analysts) we usually just talk about sports, tech, clubbing, etc. Normal guys stuff.
Greatest advice? I am unsure, keep at it and never stop? It's all about being persistence, and not looking like a douchebag who just wants to benefit from people. If you are a likeable guy, people will offer to help you by themselves.
My greatest mistake was that I didn't go into banking or PE right after undergrad. In retrospective, the MSc I earned didn't add any practical shit and I would have probably done better just skipping it.
Work hard, network hard and don't get frustrated if you can't get in the first time. Oh, yeah, especially on WSO: Don't always think KKR or Bust. It's not gonna happen anyway so concentrate on what you can actually get.
I don't think that a quant major gives you an advantage to get into PE. We have one guy with an engineering background at our fund, but thats about as quantitative as it gets...
That is a very good questions! In general, you spot opportunities by paying attention to industry fairs, going out to meet people, intermediaries, lawyers etc. and by utilizing your network properly. This way you will get plenty of opportunities that will allow you to snatch up a few good companies. As for solving the problem of emotional attachments, that's a tough one. I've seen it that people were really attached to their business because they had ran it for more than 35 years and felt that their time was up but there was no one to inherit it to (often the case in Europe nowadays). If you as a PE then come in and you are too harsh or too fixated on just buying and selling the business down the road, you will most likely not get the deal. If you give them the feeling that their "child" is in good hands for the next few years until maybe a new, better owner with a long term view comes around then you are very likely to get the deal.
Another thing that a lot of people underestimate in this regard is that often times business owners finance their lifestyle through the firm. And if you go and buy a business from someone, they will automatically think to themselves "hmm, ok at the moment I only sleep in Hilton Hotels and drive a Porsche, if I sell now that may be gone" and you are on the verge of not getting a deal because they realize that their living standard will decrease substantially. That is a matter of negotiating cleverly then, because every business owner has a "walk away" number. For some it may be higher, for some lower, but they all have a number in their head that they want to get if they exit their business. Your job as an investor is to find a number close to that, that will allow you to make good returns, justify the investment with your committee and at the same time satisfy the owner. That's often times easier said than done, but then again I personally have not seen a deal fail due to the owner being too emotionally attached. I have seen a deal being re-negotiated 4 times because the owner realized that he wasn't getting what he thought he should get.
I contacted headhunters in both, yes. I don't think it's actually necessary because the firms usually have a London office and a Continental Europe office, but back then I was really eager to get my name out there and get noticed by people.
Well, yeah that's true of course. I don't understand why someone would have a Lambo in London tbh, as you won't get past 2nd gear anyway but then again those people play in an entirely different league :) Yeah driving the CL in the city is also fun, but the autobahn is of course where you can really unleash the 571 PS. What I do have to say though is that bitch is thirsty as hell...if you drive it like one would think it easily takes 20-25L high octane gasoline, which, as anyone who's been down here knows, is excruciating painful when filling up the tank :) on a side note, I always have to laugh when the US guys complain about gas prices...
Not to be a dick here but I have to second NorthSider and Swiss Ninja. Just by looking at your profile and doing an easy Google search "Bocconi Munich Private Equity Associate Linkedin" I am pretty sure the first hit that comes up is you.
Adding up I can see you only graduated from college in 2013, have not held any other meaningful positions and are working as a "Private Equity Associate" for only a short time frame. Looking at your so called MM firm and reading through the materials it seems your firm has not done any meaningful deal and seem to just want to acquire 1 business at some point and build that (care to elaborate)?
Reading your answers to NorthSiider and Swiss Ninka it seems you went from Summer Analyst to the firm where you are now which is calling you an "Associate" but realistically you have not held a FT job at any bank so you do not have much experience and are deliberately misleading people in this thread.
Talking about your comp, rolex, and cl amg, and all your epic holidays when you have never actually received a FT bonus or worked as a non-intern except for the place you are right now come on kid get real.
Its a disgrace to see somebody like you who has clearly received a lot of guidance from WSO to spread misleading information to inexperienced monkeys on this forum and feeding them a load of crap.
To your defense some of the answers actually make sense and information is correct but a lot of the stuff you write is outright bullshit and you know it.
Jesus. I'm bookmarking this thread. If you look past all the talk on fancy cars and models and bottles, there are some gems of information on here. As a PE analyst in an EM boutique, I especially loved the example on how analysts can add value. Glad to say I've had the opportunity to do something similar for the fund, although it went completely unacknowledged (the associate got the credit - no surprises there). But anyways happy to note that I'm on the right track :)
What do you suggest is the best way to encounter this? I feel like credit should be given and demanded where credit is due. I just imagine it to be an issue to point falsely taken credit out in an environment where people have very limited time (probably even more so in banking)
On another note, considering internship interviews in PE post banking internships, which resources would you recommend to prepare?
Many thanks in advance, much appreciated! Very informative thread!
yep aside some comments I must say some of the information is very good/true from my own experience and more than helpful to any prospective pe associate, especially in Europe! keep it up
Well-said fraudster1979
i agree that some of the info you've given is valuable but overall the majority of what youre preaching is bull. its the like the majority of the kids on here, working at some chop shop and then pretending to be BSDs. dont understand why you put in so much time / effort to mislead kids who actually want to get some real advice / guidance. have to say, its also the fault of WSO who dont do a good enough job vetting
didnt wanna say it but anyone from bocconi cannot be trusted.....joke of a business school and not given any credence in continental Europe.
Your username... Oh the irony!
P.S. I have no idea of whether the OP is genuine material or not, and I don't care about his rolex and his holidays. As far as work related stuff is concerned, everything he has said makes sense.
As for not having a background... I'm an analyst in a sub $250 mn PE fund and it's my first job ever. Go figure.
"One, not everything that I inquired about was for myself. Number two, sometimes more stuff changes in 2 weeks then in 2 years, which was exactly the case for me." LOLZ wtf......get f*d jagoff.....youre a liar and a thief just like everyone who comes from that shithole bocconi and pretends to wanna do finance......shove that CL AMG up your ass .....rolex ROFL
Frustrated much with Bocconians? Does this come from personal experience? That one dude that got the offer instead of you? Must be a sad,sad story...
LOL...."bocconians"
LOL...."bocconians"
Sherlock Holmes #2 :) Good job ;)
As for your comments: Yeah, I already said that i went from Summer Analyst to Associate. My firm's web page isn't up to date, as you might have noticed and what is publically available is for the Search Fund that is the 2nd investment arm of the company. The traditional PE runs in the background. And, as the name suggests, this is Private Equity, ergo private deals ergo we don't disclose info. But sure, we didn't do any meaningful deals. I wonder what I busted my as for the past weeks.
I'm not deliberately trying to mislead people. As far as I know, the info I posted that was actually PE related was much appreciated by 99% of the people in the thread, but sure I don't know what I'm talking about.
As for what I make and what I own, I never alluded to that I got all that when I started working for my current firm. And just fyi, you can lease cars for $800 a month, but sure me driving a CL is so outrageous.
Yeah save the disgrace comments for someone else, I don't feel like listening to you lecturing me. I didn't spread any misleading information and I didn't feed anyone crap. My Sherlock skills aren't as good as yours, but I assume that you are born in 1979 and are thus more than a decade older than I am. Must suck to see that someone so much younger actually as success in what he does without having to go through the hoops of being in modern slavery called banking. I met a lot of you, usually when I go to intermediary meetings. All the same. Maybe I'm unjust, but your comments where more than unnecessary. If you want to discuss anything specifically, PM me or come to Munich. I'll even pick you up at the airport.
Thanks, bro! Much appreciated that you actually had something nice to say. Keep it up!
Thanks bro :)
Thanks bro ;)
Haha alright man. True Bocconi sucks big time. It just has the 2nd highest placement among all business schools in Europe, only behind LSE with like 1 point in that eFinancialCareers survey. So you're spot on...oh, wait...chapeau chapeau you little swiss ninja :)
Jackpot :)
Nice job man! I assume in the US?
Seriously? You're gonna insult all the students at Bocconi twice in this thread, because you don't think what I write is genuine? Wow, that's steep. Ah well I guess as a swiss ninja one has the right to disrespect thousands of people because you can't grasp that some people actually move forward in life.
On a side note I want to give you a little advice, it appears that you desperately need it, my friend: As I am sure your mom already taught you, you shouldn't really go around and call people thieves and liars when you have never met them in real life. If you want to talk to me personally, just PM me and we can discuss your issues. Oh, try to show a little more class next time when you post about Bocconi, a little decency would be much appreciated.
Maybe someone from Bocconi didn't only take his precious IBD offer, maybe he also banged his girlfriend in the process...do Swiss Ninjas have girlfriends? I am unsure about the codex there...
Dont try to be a smartass....you've been exposed as a fraud and now your holier-than-thou attitude isnt gonna get you a repreive.
ask anyone in the know to compare bocconi to HSG on an academic level / placement level....not even close. Apologies to any Bocconians who might feel offended but thats the bare truth. every single person who has come from bocconi to HSG for a double degree can attest to what I'm saying. anyone who hasn't is working at some chop shop like you are whilst masturbating to a CL amg at night.
My only point was this: you should not mislead people. Most kids come here for geniuine advice from a credible person who has gone through the shit sandwich to come out at some decent shop. not some MSC-fraudster from bocconi who wants to "give back to the community".
Yeah that's not true and you know that. See here: http://news.efinancialcareers.com/118675/the-top-15-masters-in-finance-… you little village school isn't even listed. But sure, HSG places so much better...in regards to your double degree program...of course, that's why HSG has been begging Bocconi to do a double degree in Finance and Bocconi told them that once their programs are up to par they will consider it. Sorry to break it to you pal, but seriously masturbate to a CL? Wow, I knew HSG people were weird but that fucked up?
My point is: You should not judge so much and get to where I am and then we can talk on the same level. Until then, enjoy that little swiss village and keep competing about who can buy the largest bottle at Elephant Club. If you can afford it that is, the way your hating on my materialistic comments, I think you can't.
LOL, swiss village people
Seems like you are very busy at you "PE firm"....If on vacation, should you not be popping bottles rather than defending your pathetic claims?
Funny, I don't drink alcohol. Oh man...
as a word of wisdom: You are doing something wrong if people don't hate.
In this sense all the best to matrick as it seems he is doing something right
definitely be interested in hearing more about how you secured your current position and the search process itself. This thread is information gold mine. thanks a bunch
Everybody who gives the whole "I did not want to do M&A/BB and Megafund because of the hours, the learning experience etc. and now I work in a real entrepreneurial firm bla bla bla" just did not cut it in that environment, and that is the sad truth Matrick, you know it....
Then coming onto WSO and bragging about it and giving false information to eager monkeys is just not what WSO should be all about IMO.
That put aside I think this discussion is pointless and that should be the end to it. I am just trying to make other monkeys aware not to trust anybody just because they say so.
100% Agree. My whole point summed up very well. On my part, I would like to extend apologies for all the bocconians out there who got offended. I guess its just school pride and my own experience.
Also, dont create fake multiple accounts to keep the thread going :)
I see. So you are working at a startup with its maiden fund. Hence the lack of formal structures at the firm. That explains the flexibility in your responsibilities. It would be unusual for an established firm to have associates go out and source deals, meeting managements on their own etc.
Re carry and other upsides based compensations, these are entirely a function of the returns. If the deal turns out to be a home run then yes it is conceivable that you would make more than associates at mega-funds.
Do you mind telling me what is your carry like (in percentage or points) for each portfolio company you work on? Do you guys also have fund level clawback provisions?
Re those who asked about total compensations, lifestyle etc. It is rather impolite to ask people these types of questions, especially on a public internet forum. So I don't blame the OP if he gave out inaccurate or made up figures on those.
What would you say are Europe's target schools when it comes to B-schools where the major IB's recruit?
See, that's the problem, you didn't. And since the beginning of the thread, a great deal of what you have posted is misleading and/or deceptive in that you imply many times that you are a post-IB Associate.
I think it's fairly clear that you have insight into the job that could be helpful to people on this board, but a lot of the material on here is, unfortunately, self-aggrandizing and capitalizes on the credibility you get from being marked a certified user.
I obviously don't have all the details about your situation, but the following excerpts - at the very least - strongly suggest that you completed a 2-year stint at a BB bank, rather than going directly from undergrad to a PE role:
As someone who works in the industry, you are obviously aware that most PE Associates have >2 years prior work experience. Consequently, you'd obviously be aware that in making an AMA thread about being a PE Associate, most people will reasonably assume that you have moved on from IB/Consulting. Yet, instead of clarifying that, you fuel the belief that you did an "Analyst stint".
But beyond that, in light of the fact that you joined directly out of undergrad, you make a bevy of statements that - to me - either seem unbelievable or grossly exaggerate your experience. Typically, I would give you the benefit of the doubt, but given the misleading nature of your other posts, I'm inclined to be suspicious about the truth of the following:
A fantastic amount of experience for someone fresh out of undergrad who has been on the job for a matter of weeks.
If by, "in IB", you mean your experience working as an Intern on an LBO. And it seems pretty dubious that you would have gone from start to finish on an entire transaction at your current firm in a matter of weeks.
It would be quite a feat for an undergrad to land Analyst interviews at each of "BX, SL, Carlyle, etc."
Again, I have never heard of Associates - let alone right after undergrad - receiving board advisory fees in their cash comp. More importantly, it is utterly ridiculous to me that a paying a freshly-minted undergrad more than >$10bn funds pay Associates after 2 years of IB.
So, before receiving any form of FT bonus and having collected a couple of paychecks, you went out and bought/leased a $160k car...
... and two ~$20k watches?
Doubtful, to me, that a PE Analyst would be taking on a lot of this responsibility with as much flexibility as you claim.
See above.
In your couple weeks of experience? How "regular" could these meetings possibly be?
Unless your girlfriend makes multiples of what you make, I find it completely unrealistic that your base out of undergrad at a summer analyst stint), and I am entailed an Associate title.[/quote]
I have never heard of headhunters reaching out to Summer Analysts. Things might be much different in Europe, but I just don't see how this makes sense.
Bravo NorthSider. I don't think he is a fraud, but I do think that he has fallen into the same trap many of us fall in.. How easy it is to exagerate things a little when in writing, on an online forum.
This is definitely possible in Europe (London). I would assume its very rare, but I personally know a couple of guys who interviewed (for Analyst positions though) at some of the megafunds mentioned in this thread (BX/Silver Lake/Carlyle etc) after their senior year SA. They were contacted by headhunters after they had finished their summers at GS/MS/JPM level IBD. One of them got actually several offers and ended up at one of the megafunds as FT Analyst. However, these guys are pretty much top of the top, so I would say its pretty rare (one of them did something like a total of 5 summer/off-cycle internships at top tier BB IDBs and MBBs).
Agree. Easy to overstate under total anonymity. Matrick clearly knows quite a bit of what he's talking about, but the exaggerations / misleading statements are distracting and subtract from the value of the thread. Although I'm sure Matrick started the thread with good intentions, this just makes it seem more self-aggrandizing than philanthropic.
LOLz well said sir. End of discussion. Dude's been discredited for life, atleast under his current moniker, on WSO. No worries though....hes busy creating multiple fake accounts to try and rescue his cred.
can you please PM me?
Yes, you have a point and I don't have to further discuss this with you.
Yeah, don't worry about the Bocconians, they don't take you serious anyway.
as for your last comment, I am getting the feeling that you are seriously retarded. But then again, as with all your other comments, i only have one thing to say: "0".
Yes, start up with maiden fund. I never said that my fund is oh so special that they allow me to this I just said that I do it and that's why I like my job. As for your comment regarding associates sourcing deals at established firms, Summit Partners and TA Associates do that, as well.
Yes, that's exactly the point in regards of compensation. Carry is 0,3%-1%, depending on the deal.
I agree in terms of the impolite questions, glad someone else points it out. I didn't make anything up, but what people have to understand is that I never said that everything I have was paid for or bought in the time that I started working for that fund. Plus, I don't understand what my personal life has to do with me answering questions related to PE.
I think that's been discussed to death. UK: Oxbridge, LSE, Imperial, Warwick. Continental Europe: HEC, Bocconi, SSE, ESCP and sometimes you find other schools.
Wow, first of all you have my respect good sir. I gave you a silver banana for that post, just due to the fact that it must've taken you a long time to write all that. I am unsure how this will add any value to the thread, but let's get started on your gazillion questions.
I never mislead anyone, and the things that I wrote are things that I experienced. I am sorry I didn't clarify for everyone the I was a SUMMER ANALYST. Apologies. I guess that already discredits my responses to actual PE questions by at least 10%.
Just so you understand it, I am not fresh out of undergrad. I am not a PE analyst, even though I interviewed for PE analysts positions as well, I am still an Associate.
How the thing with advisory boards worked I already explained in a reply to some guy who posted above you. Some guy below me verified that people in Europe can get interviews at BX, SLP, etc. after SUMMER ANALYST stints. So that should be cleared.
As for the car and my watches, I already said that I lease the CL, go to your local dealer or a website to see how cheaply you can actually get them, especially if they are certified pre-owned (which then all of a sudden cost 60k). But yeah outrageous... As for the watches I already said that one was a gift (not my fault that my father gave me the Daytona for graduation). As for the Hublot, just fyi it costs 33k EUROS, thats not $20k just to get that straight. and yes, I bought that after i started working and when you look closely you can also get a watch through...you guessed it!!! 0% FINANCING!!! OMG!!! And just to clarify this once and for all, the questions, which set this whole shit show on fire, respectively were: "What do you drive?" and "What is the most expensive jewelry you own?". The questions were not "what do you drive, how did you pay for it and did you pay it with the money you made at your current firm?". So get that shit straight once and for all.
As for the compensation, the number that you calculated (even if incorrectly), is well within the range for PE associates. You should read the Compensation Reports more closely. The person who asked, asked about total household income not my personal income just from my PE stint. I am actually smart enough to also do other things on the side, and so does my girlfriend. Amazingly this adds a nice sum on top of each person's PE income. So once again I'd ask you to phrase your questions more specific and to get that shit straight.
I am sure I missed a lot of your questions, but I seriously don't feel like answering to every little thing that I posted that my have hurt your ego.
Some stalker already found my profile on LinkedIn anyway. If you are so keen on seeing that I did more in my life than just a single 10 week SUMMER ANALYST position, please PM me and I can give you the link, answer all your questions etc. But seriously, stop annoying me with shit that has nothing to do with the idea of this thread.
I'm not a fraud and read my reply to NorthSide, which will explain the things that everyone is so upset about.
Please point out to me how I answered questions regarding PE or MM PE in a misleading fashion?
once again for any comment from you: "0".
Thank you for verifiying what I said.
Frankly it's not his fault, it's your fault (everyone in this thread). You are all egging him on and letting yourselves be amazed by his material possessions. Half of the questions in this thread have little to do with PE and have everything to do with finding out how much money he has, how much prestige, and whether he is actually a BSD.
By typical WSO standards his job is quite ordinary. But from what I've read it sounds fantastic. Working 9-5, doing meaningful work, and interacting with high-level clients? No BB or megafund will give you that. In this respect, it's quite stupid to spend so much effort trying to dress up your job. Is it BX or Carlyle? No, but why do you care? You're living the life
I can't confirm the cars and watches, but I can confirm that Matrick has been honest about his professional background. We do check people before doing AMAs...
Interesting. It is my understanding that Summit has a special group of "sourcing associates" that scout for and then cold call/email for potential deals. These are more akin to business development type of roles and are different than the investment professionals.
Anyway, just to clarify, by 0.3%-1% you mean out of 100% or out of 20% carry ?(I assume your firm charges 20% performance fees)
Also I think it is interesting that, despite being European based, your PE firm has deal level carries. I thought the European model was to pay out carries only at firm level. What is the hurdle rate for this fund?
Look, as I said in my original post and confirmed later, I think the information you're providing is overwhelmingly accurate and it's clear that you do work in the industry. I was merely commenting on what I believe were fairly misleading statements about your professional background. It may not have been intentional, but it certainly raised red flags in my book and - for me - calls your credibility into question elsewhere in the thread.
As for compensation, I can assure you that EUR ~160k base salary is not "well within the range", even for post-IB PE Associates, in funds with
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to suggest that Matrick lied about his professional background. I just think that a few of his answers obscured the fact that he came in straight out of undergrad and didn't complete an "Analyst stint", as was implied. All the issues related to watches, cars, comp ranges, etc. are frankly tangential, but certainly don't endorse the integrity of the thread (granted, he was directly asked these questions).
Whoa. People have way too much free time.
Hi Matrick, very insightful thread! I have a question about Bocconi Uni. I come from Poland and this year i've completed my bachelor at Warsaw School of Economics. Good as it is (best in Poland acutally) it doesn't bear comparison with top european bschools. I aim for high european finance hence, I'm considering taking Msc in Finance on RSM, St. Gallen, Bocconi, LSE (altough I'm not sure if I make the cut there - my pre-degree GPA is 3,72 out of 5 and post-degree GPA is 4,23 out of 5 and i heard they're really harsh on GPA in London). I haven't taken the GMAT yet but I suppose >700 is in my scope. Is Bocconi really that good? LSE is a brand name, no doubt about that, while St.Gallen's programme is very demanding from what i've heard. Since i decided too late that i wanna study abroad i have a gap year now and i wanna take my time to prepare. besides I'm working as a SA in the biggest brokerage house in poland but may try someplace more renown like E&Y, KPMG or Deloitte as of October to give my CV some boost.
I had 2 friends who worked for Summit, both as Associate straight out of business school. All they did for the first 6 months was source deals. They both left shortly after that, one for another PE and one for a Mezz fund. Maybe its different for US vs Europe.
That percentage is out of the 20% GP amount.
I don't know how other European funds do it, because most people I talked to don't even get carry at this point. Hurdle rate is 8% (that's pretty standard afaik).
Ok, understood. Nevertheless, your reactions to various comments were grossly over exaggerated. However I appreciate that you are obviously capable of forming complete sentence that resemble an intelligent discussion, so I'm glad we agree at least partially.
There was someone from your university in my class when I was at Bocconi. If you are serious, I can try to introduce you guys to each other. Just PM me.
As for whether Bocconi is really that good, I have to say yes. If you want to do IBD in London, MSc Finance at Bocconi is a great program. LSE may place better but I don't know how this is on a per class basis.
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