Looking for Advice on Summer Offer - Tier 1 LO or Tiger Cub
For those who have experience in either path, I’d really appreciate your perspective on:
1. What's your view on pros and cons of each option
2. Which option will offer better optionality in the future (i.e. which path will be easier if I want to pivot from LO to HF or vice versa)
Bump!
Bump
not at a HF so take this with a grain of salt but the NY offer at a tiger cub seems better, also structurally long-only funds are seeing a competitive environment
Was just in the same scenario but for US and took the T1 LO offer from one of the places you mentioned. It was hard because I also wanted to do L/S coming in, but the more I spoke to friends in industry the more I realized longevity is limited for SM HF (others can chime in but I eventually came to the conclusion that your EV comp is higher for the median LO analyst than median tiger cub analyst, of course in tail event outcomes significantly higher for tiger cub seat, while preserving better quality of life).
LO is facing pressure but each one of the managers you listed has 1tn AUM so as long as you believe markets will go up in the LT they’re large enough platforms that can weather the slow drip of outflows
That said, I don’t know much about Asia specifically so can’t help there
Thank you. I also came in with the idea of doing L/S, but then realized that LO could be a higher risk-adjusted path and give me time to ramp up (I don't have any public equity experience before). On the exit side, do you know if the door will be open for decent SM or MM shops after working 2 - 3 years at LO?
Asia vs NY matter more here than L/S vs LO
Thanks. I came from an Asian background so ideally return to my home country in the long term. Headhunter told me either path will guarantee me the interview in the market.
You (and others) are answering this question in the wrong order...
I work at one of the funds you mentioned... forget about the funds... decide where you want to live. Do you need a visa sponsorship in the LT (only ask because you have the ability to work in asia)? Do you see yourself living in HK (or Singapore/Tokyo)/NYC? You're not going to be able to sustain a demanding job in either locations if you don't love where you're living and hate life outside of work...
2nd order question is... what do you want to cover? If you're at the fund I'm at, you're very likely covering asian stocks or credits (though I'm not sure which of these with global offices would even cover US/EU names from asia)... would you rather do that than cover US/EU names at the tiger cub? How is your coverage going to differ at both places? If you don't like the day to day of your job, you're not going to be there for too long
fees are compressing across the board... sure the EV of a decent analyst at a T1 LO is >>> the median analyst at a single manager, but 1) you're well past the heydays of people possibly making a million 5yrs out at one of these shops (speaking from experience and knowledge) and 2) you're going to an established $5bn+ fund... you'll likely make GREAT stable income at the T1 LO but path to the top is getting narrower and tougher (especially where I'm at because nobody leaves) whereas if you perform well at a $5bn fund you'll likely make a lot more starting out (and later) though on the other hand your PM could be stingy and you could be fired easily
Optionality... do you want to go to an MM one day? The HF will provide more optionality with that because of shorting experience... if you want to move between the LO and HF I don't think it'll matter much given the quality of the names.
This guy knows what he's talking about. Also was at a private LO, but left as it just wasn't really my pace.
People don't just leave these seats even if there are compressing fees because they know how good they have it. However, making Partner is a long long, political road, and I end up seeing many career analysts. I do see a lot of happy campers though and there are times where I envisioned myself in their shoes.
Thank you for writing this. I can see that those are all very valid perspectives, and you put some thoughts for me.
Location-wise, I really don't have a preference or constraint because I came from an Asian background (grew up and worked in pre-MBA) and went to undergraduate school in New York. I enjoyed living in both cities (New York and HK/Singapore) and also have a green card, so sponsorship is not an issue. Long-term wise, I see myself living in Asia, but could also enjoy working in the US for 3 - 4 years.
Coverage will be similar for both shops, so it's not a consideration for me.
On the comps side, I am really curious about the trajectory at LO, now, given that you have relevant experience (I assume it's in the US?). Would appreciate it if you could share some colors. I understand the upside will certainly be higher for SM, but duration and downside risk also matter to me.
Exit-wise, do you think it's viable to jump from LO to decent SM or MM after 3 - 4 years? It sounds like a nice path for me to build my investing muscle and then chase for the upside.
one thing to consider is that at the LO your tenure will matter... you're unlikely to be handed a PM seat "sooner" unless you navigate the politics well.. at the fund I'm at (one of the ones you listed), it can take at least 7-10yrs to transition to a full PM role if you perform well (and will likely take more as younger PMs transition to these roles)... so if you plan on ultimately building a career in asia in a LO, having that 3-4yr headstart might be valuable. If you pursue SM, I think it's relatively more fungible
I can't really opine on the asian job mkt and how viable it is to jump between the funds... at least on the US side, from one of the aforementioned shops you won't find much difficulty jumping from SM to LO (though opposite may be harder simply due to the scarcity of the seats)... MM is different bc you won't have shorting experience as an "older" or experienced candidate when you compete with the army of younger experienced l/s ppl.
I really appreciate the follow-up answer. Probably one last thing, if you feel comfortable sharing - what does the comp trajectory look like before PM (1 - 3 yr, 3 - 5 yr, and 5 - 7 yr analyst) at LO.
Could you share what helped u get the offer from the SM HF? Assuming there’s some sort of pipeline with your MBA and that ur resume was solid with the 2+2 background, but what about technical prep? Does networking play a big role or is it more about impressing the interviewers? How are the interviews structured? Any color is appreciated
I think it will be pretty natural networking from the school event. Not much typical technical prep like you might think for IB or PE interviews - mostly talking your stock pitch.
One data point as someone at a large LO.
All 5 people I know from MBA who went to tiger cubs or other well-known multibillion dollar SMs made significantly higher ($150k+ difference) year 1 comp than me but only one of them (3 years out) is still in his seat, and one of them has been looking for a new seat for almost a full year now. 2 left voluntarily for LO, 2 were fired, and 1 has lasted (though isn’t in an equity seat fwiw). 2/5 of them I have spoken to have horror stories about psychotic PMs and horrible hours - think 80ish per week consistently, very sweaty. So I have almost certainly outearned 60-80% of them while having a generally great and sustainable WLB (~50hrs/week) the whole time. That said, the one who lasted I suspect is clearing $1m+ comp now 3 years out because he’s a very smart guy and his fund is lean and has done well from what I hear. So that’s what you’re playing for.
The flip side is that 7/8 of my the people I know including me who went to a large/well-known LOs directly out of MBA are still there. The one who left his fund did it voluntarily for a better seat. Yeah the industry is under pressure but like others have said, the EV is higher for a median LO analyst and you have a lot more time and support to ramp up without getting fired. Though FMR does have a rep of up or out more than other LOs so that one is a wildcard but I know it has high comp (the one person I know from MBA who went there is still there).
Anyway hope this helps. Don’t get too stuck to the prestige of L/S. I love my LO job and comp is good. But do whatever appeals to you most.
Thank you! Those are really helpful data points. I appreciate your reply.
Congrats on Wharton!
I love Wharton!
Currently a MM analyst.
Everytime I see a post like this - I instantly know you are not fit for HF. just go to LO. if you keep weighing EV of your future comps, you should just stick to being a doctor. You should only go to HF if you think you can be the right tail end outcome - which is what everyone in HF is gunning for. If you are already p*ssying out and weighing LO vs HF now, it really means you are too weak to even get in to the HF world. this sounds harsh but i really think to last long enough in HF, you need to come in with kill or be killed mentality. you sound like a weak PE dude who just needs to cash stable checks.
lol average MM analyst who thinks they're the next superstar
typical regard response… i never said i am a superstar nor i think as one.
The point is that everyone in HF should and is going for the jackpot outcome. thats the point of this job - this is not a stable job at all and shouldnt be.
You cant even respond with any logic and shows you have low IQ
Love the confidence from someone whose greatest flex is being a MM analyst who hasn't hit a 5% drawdown yet. Truly the stuff of HF legend.
You're right though — anyone who rationally weighs career tradeoffs is clearly too weak for the industry. Real alpha comes from making life-altering decisions with maximum aggression and minimum reflection. That's definitely what Griffin did.
But sure — calling strangers "p*ssy" and "weak" on a finance forum is definitely the killer instinct that separates HF legends from the rest. Your PM must be so proud.
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