9 years in banking - can't imagine how annoying the crap work is
Began my career at a BB and now is a VP at an MM with almost 9 years experience
Team is very lean and occasionally I am the only person who is on
I am just flabbergasted by the amount of bullshit work on job and I just don't know why the seniors can't stfu. I had it as a junior and unfortunately it hits on me even as a VP. But regardless of that, it does not change my view the work below are entirely crap.
Internal work
- Revenue slides, SoW analysis, key missed deals, etc. - these are just bullshit witch hunt exercise. Not sure what is the point of wasting our time on this. Get the BO to do it and everyone of us should spend the effort on meetings and pitching, not these funny internal stuff. Best part: it is usually because we are not GS MS or CVP LAZ. There is nothing we can do to change the shit. Junior cannot change the bank's prestige and most senior bankers only relied on former bank's brand name anyway and lose origination ability once gtfoed
- Call notes - I am fine with this but VP/ED for call notes? And best part is most calls are actually BS enough that can be summarized in a few words - client not interested in XXX, follow up with some slides on YYY. Why do we need to make a whole transcript man?
- Deal flash - Yes, I know we are excited with deal closing but what's the point of v30 iteration on something just for internal consumption? If that is so important, perhaps circulate a hall of shame with each team's YTD revenue
- Conflict check, reputational risk check, compliance update, client onboarding - fuck it, can't we just get the back office team to do it instead of us drafting something so they can input into the system?
- Arranging calls - not sure why PAs can't do it but sometimes its done by me or my team's analysts. FFS, a 12 people call you need 7 BSD to get on and these guys are in "another timezone", "traveling", "client dinner" and you even need to memorize who accepted the invite in case your boss asks why John the Dope did not attend the call
External work
- Market data - get your CDD advisor to do it man. You don't see a podiatrist to treat your COVID, why would you come to bankers for market data mining
- EL NDA - guys I don't know how important it is and we live in an honor based society, there is a point to execute the doc but funny to do v20 and our job is just relaying to lawyers. If we want to do vFFFFFFFFFF, perhaps let the lawyers call each other instead of asking us to be the middleman just to click send attachment
- SPA SHA - yes I agree it is important but a commercially minded lawyer could have provided lots of insights. Our job should just be flagging missed out commercial points or mediate when something can't be agreed, not pretending to be a lawyer and advise this and that
- valuation - does it matter 6.55p per share vs 6.6p? I know the difference could be in millions, but I don't think that is something you should rely on your model. Perhaps finding a few statistician and behavioral economist would get your better feel of acceptable valuation instead of us tweaking 100 assumptions so that you drink the kool aid with 1% valuation difference?
Bonus one
- Formatting - this thing is epic, I cannot believe how much time I am spent on converting some ideas me or my boss have in mind to a slide. And go through dozens of iterations just because "it does not look nice". Can we expand our BO to hire a few marketing guys from WPP so that they can help us to create more stylish slides? I know banking is a sales job but then we should be putting intellectual horsepower at work not design aesthetics
U alright?
on point take of banking.
My friend, sales job and “intellectual horsepower” don’t go together. Sorry to hear this bad news amigo
Is there a job that pays adequately that’s not a sales job? And don’t say trader because that’s the ultimate sales job
How is being a trader a sales job lol???? So the guys at Citadel with PhDs in physics executing systematic strategies are actually doing a sales job? Yeah ok
The worst part is that it never ends…everyone has to be doing 80+ no matter how slow.
The market data point is so good. I don't know why clients look at us like we have magical market data. Like buddy, we Gartner, IDC, and Forrester, who say every market is $5 trillion, growing at 6%, and don't give you any qualitative drivers on how that's going to happen. We have no home grown bottoms up forecast on the paving services business.
To your podiatrist analogy, I'd go a step further and say this is like asking your doctor to create a medication to treat your illness.
We know you don’t but partners earning 7 figs a year do not want to give the CDD advisors 50k more to do it. And if I can help it, I’m not going to be the one doing it. OTOH y’all are on a flat, mostly success based fee.
I’ve seen someone try to negotiate that 50k down to 30k
Internal work
TLDR is internal bullshit needs to be handled by your associate. Period. Please focus on being in front of clients. I'm sure you could type up a long rebuttal going point by point as to why that's not possible, but be honest yourself and ask is it really not? When you were an associate, were you not able to drive this shit? You were. You're doing yourself and your career a disservice stickhandling this bullshit. Be the quarterback, call the play, make the pass and let the team do its thing. It's doable, as someone who also moved from big bank to lean team boutique.
External work
Market data - why are you involved beyond forwarding the client's request to your associate and scanning the slide when sending it back
EL NDA - Ok this one is actually annoying af because lawyers like to run up billables that clients don't want to pay and I hate spending my time being a mouthpiece in the middle but such is life.
SPA SHA - Another super annoying one. I stick to commercial points with "am not a lawyer" disclosure anytime I get asked for an opinion beyond that.
Valuation - This is sadly another one of those eat the shit parts of the job. Deal team got reamed recently because the third decimal in the Excel version of the football field did not match neurotic MD's back of the napkin math.
Bonus one
Formatting - Why in the fuck ARE YOU IN SLIDES? Idc how lean your team is, what in the fuck. 9 years of banking experience, what the hell are we even doing here
I have now reduced your bullshit / admin workload by 50%. Please spend that time in front of clients.
I've seen lawyers being open to offer fixed price for x number of finished NDAs with buyers. That usually motivates them to be more efficient and limit turns.
Also, if it's the buyside counsel making your life difficult, just tell them that it's not a negotiation and that your NDA is market, which it should be (especially if 45 other PE funds accepted it the way it was). If that doesn't work you can give them a call and say that if they do not agree to it, they can go back to their client and tell them that they're responsible for holding up the deal, which usually speeds things up. I'm not going to burn the midnight oil in some menial, theoretical discussion with an a-hole senior associate at K&E and I honestly do not care what that glorified secretary thinks of me. GO AHEAD, CALL KKR AND TELL THEM THAT THEY ARE NOT GETTING THE IM BECAUSE YOU CANNOT ACCEPT THE DEFINITION OF THIRD-PARTY SERVICE PROVIDERS!
I quite enjoy pushing around the law associates :)
oddly specific
Hmmmmmmmmmm
That's pretty brutal if you're the VP doing that stuff. I'm at a BB and that's all exclusively like analyst tasks w ASO/VP spot check
One of the perks of being at a BB tbh.
Agreed on all points. But don't think things like this will change at most banks because a lot of MDs get offended when you suggest we be a little more efficient with our time.
Based banking take.
Banking sounds great at surface level - closing deals, high profile clients, high pay. However, when you really boil it down to what it is - you are just an advisor bitch shit eater for your clients.
Some people can tolerate it and are good at it, but I couldn’t take all the meaningless iterating and busy work anymore. Most of it is just internal optics anyway - MDs trying to look like they are adding value
This is straight facts…no notes.
Straight facts - only option is to leave my guy, the money ain't worth it
reminder to read this
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Anytime anybody uses the word “prestige” to describe any finance related job, tells me they are an intern or a prospect
Kind of like how no NBA player would describe themselves as a “baller”
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Seethe, little one. Big 4 awaits you
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VP's at MM's are slide monkeys??
Some people are grunts like the OP. Some people figure out how to (ideally) eliminate the grunt work or (less ideally) push it on to others. Don’t be a grunt. Simple advice in banking and in life.
Mind sharing with us how?
1. Learn how to do the work effectively or efficiently
2. Create systems and processes that minimize the BS
3. Teach others to use the systems and processes so it’s not your iob
4. Encourage those people to create further systems and processes to minimize the BS
5. Manage upwards and protect your people. Then more people will want to work for you.
As a banker, there is no question clients are currency. But by and large, the best way to be an effective mid level banker and rise to picking up those clients is to have a lot of leverage from below and that comes by being the person people want to work for. No one wants to work for a grunt.
Do you have any grunts on your team? I'd bet you do, or nothing would get done.
The best coaches are always former players.
You're preaching the wrong message.
My message to analysts / jr associates is to be a grunt, live it, soak it up, and master it. Don't hate it. Then, continue progressing so it's no longer you.
The absolute worst managers, whether mid level or top, are those that think they can ride on soft skills. Take a look at Boeing
Yes I totally agree. I was an analyst and a junior associate and did exactly that. But if you’re still a grunt as a Sr Associate or VP, then that’s a major problem.
I also work hard to train my grunts to stop being grunts and find a new generation of grunts to support them. That’s how pyramids grow taller.
I never heard the phrases "bullshit", "witch hunt", and "exercise" used together. 21 years speaking English.
I will be reusing this phrase in my daily communications - bullshit witch hunt exercise.
Well done. You must be from Hong Kong.
Man I am a chinabro but this doesnt change the fact the job is complete garbage lol
I am so excited formatting new slides
Haha, chin up. This is literally the best job in China
Was considering going back into the sell side given the shit PE market now… thanks for reminding me how bad IB is.
The internal work has to be the worst part about the job. It’s absolutely ridiculous
Bro hates the BO
all I can say is, if you're a VP and doing that shit, you're doing it wrong.
I literally did the above for my director/MD when i was an associate
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