busted my ass to get into the firm and you're still going to hit me with the same gatekeeper bullshit I had to face to get in? If you're just going to take the alumni, why did I spent 15+ hours talking to analysts on the phone? Guess I dIdNt fiT tHe cUlTuRe good enough lmao
Which EBs recruit directly into groups for FT? lmk pls
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ur gonna get MS from kids who don't get it but completely agree. at my BB placement was a mess and while I ended up in a top group by pure luck (someone reneged a week before FT and I happened to email someone in charge of recruitment at the right time) it left a really bad taste in my mouth. fuck all those people in groups that never replied, half of them being school alumni
similarly have a bad taste in my mouth, fuck them
probably the fakest thing I've ever been a part of
I emailed the girl leading the recruitment for a group 4x and she still won't get on the phone with me, wtf????????
I actually agree. Its lame af.
Brb i need to call all analysts and associates in group who are like 2 years older than me and jerk them off over the phone telling them how interested I am in the deals they work on on talk in circles about how I've heard "great things about culture" and have it be responded with platitudes like "we work hard and play hard here". Its very fake and very gay.
I don't care about your culture of comment churning and nonexistent free time, running a sell side process is pretty boring, im just here to check off the analyst stint box and move on to the buyside.
Edit:
I actually completely blew off the whole networking thing for group placement since it just felt really esmasculating and beta to jerk off all these junior bankers egos(as if banking work isn't enough cuck behavior in of itself). I already got my offer. No coffee chats, nothing.
Got placed into a mediocre group, killed it during internship, hr asked me what group I wanted to join full time after (I had my pick of any group basically).
the best is when they agree to take your call, but then just give you one word answers and you can hear them typing in the background. Or when you talk to someone in a group you're super passionate about and you can tell they don't give a fuck about the industry and just see the job as a means to an end. Nothing wrong with that, it just makes for a dry as fuck chat because you can't even talk to them about the industry.
Incredibly based decision to skip the whole thing. It's a waste of everyone's time. The placement was already locked in under the table weeks/months before, the official process is total theater.
Exactly. Like my current group is gathering all the placement feedback and its mind boggling.
"Hes too eager and hyped up about deals and modeling, im dinging him"
"Hes said he also is interested in lev fin, hes not fully committed to this group, im dinging him"
"We didn't have a deep connection on the phone" (wtf this isn't the bachelor
"I like her, group needs more women"(lmao)
Whole thing is super pathetic and makes me dislike my peers a bit that encourage it.
I heard at Wells they pretty much decide group placement based on resumes and also take into consideration where you ranked them. I'd assume it's similar at BB's although maybe only HR gets to see our rankings and not the groups themselves. But yeah I also think the process is total theater with how short it is. I lucked out at my BB despite being a non target and got one of the top groups/top choices. Definitely get where you're coming from
completely agree on networking.
100% agree, one of the reasons why i took an EB offer was because I recruited for a particular team and did not want to get my name randomly drawn out of a hat in the placement process
which EB? I'm coming thru ASAP
I mean just in general, many boutiques (eg EVR, LAZ, PJT) recruit for M&A, cap markets, secondary advisory, restructuring etc via separate and independent processes (imo an underrated upside of recruiting for boutiques)
caveat is that this optionality often exist only for product teams but usually u can’t recruit for specific industry teams
Facts! 100% true
Placement process should focus on “Pushin P” instead
this sounds awful. So glad I wanted to do tech and recruited directly for west coast groups
That is how the corporate world works. Welcome to the soul-sucking machine.
the people from the Ivy League schools were least likely to respond to my emails or be helpful on the phone.. made me kind of sad honestly, like even after getting the SA offer they’re still not ever going to be on your side, but I can understand where they’re coming from.
But c’est la vie, we’re all just blessed to wake up every morning and play the game.
ivy league grad here, my own alumni wouldn't respond so i wouldn't take it personally
Interesting. I'm a non target and at the BB I'm working at only had 1 alumni but they were in shit group. Pretty much everyone I reached out to went to ivies and got responses from them. A good amount of people didn't respond, but I definitely did get some responses.
If anything it’s still gratifying to see how many people come from prep schools and expensive elite institutions and know that I broke in and got the same offer out of undergrad after coming from poverty and public school and free lunch and food stamps. But I suppose it’s unrealistic to expect the elite school gatekeepers to save some opportunities for the rest of us after hoarding them their whole lives
Respect.
Never a dull moment watching people with a false sense of entitlement complain.
Edit: Yes, bring on the MS. I bathe in the tears of crybaby Analysts who don't get their way.
You work at DB or UBS? I would absolutely get reamed if I ignored an internal email. Bad look for the bank if they allow ghosting their own people
I think what is being forgotten here is that I'm sure these Analysts are getting quite a few emails to chat and they can't make time for all of them. Most Analysts put in at least some effort, respond to a few and then call it a day.
FT Partners, it's paradise
joins FT Partners
>doesn’t get preferred coverage group
What you all fail to realize is that when you are in the top group, 100 (no that is not an exaggeration, actually 100) emails will come in from people like you. I was not taking 100 calls. I was probably not even taking 20 calls. Instead, I found people that had some connection to the group's focus or to myself. That means it's probably 7-8 that went to the same school as me and 7-8 people that worked or did something highly relevant to our group worth talking about. And that's enough to do a call or two a day for weeks.
And I was very very generous with my time. Most people are doing 1-3 calls, not 15. And their filter is far more ruthless: do we know each other personally? No one is obligated to open up doors for you. But I am eternally grateful for the people that did for me, so I at least did my part.
👑
lmaooo
bro you're totally right. As a non-target I didn't have to sell myself at all to get into the firm. I just walked in. Never hustled a day in my life.
nah, as a guy who went through placement, it would be different if they gave you a chance but they'll only answer emails from their friends or friends of friends. you can't sell yourself if they don't give you a chance
Actually we are just here to check the box
betas have to sell themselves. alphas don't.
Great comment
It’s literally a matter of numbers. Not everything can get the groups they want primarily because everyone wants the same groups. I went through the GS placement process and 80%+ of interns put TMT as top choice. Not a surprise, but goes to show you that if everyone had it their way, no one would want to go to the “less desirable” groups. It’s the way that life works
I'm not saying it shouldn't be competitive. If everyone gets a fair shot there's no problem.
Bro nobody gets a "fair shot" for general recruiting either. It's just the way the process and the industry goes. Gotta learn to deal with it
Analysts are getting hundreds of emails a day.
no we're not lol, stop acting like you're too good to take 20 mins out of ur day to talk to a kid who actually wants to work in your group
I’m not analyst anymore nor have I been one for a while so this isn’t about me being too good.
No working professional is going to be able to acknowledge every request for an informational / networking request. Just because they didn’t respond to you doesn’t mean they aren’t responding to others
.
yeah I think certain groups such as FIG, O&G, RE have that advantage
what are the exit opps for FIG banking? heard they're pretty limited to just FIG but I cover it for a student-managed fund at a non-target and I'm interested in covering it post grad
.
I have mixed thoughts in this, spent like 30 hours networking to get into a group that had two spots and got snubbed for kids who’s alumni were execs. As a result ended up networking my second choice, had way better convos / connections, had a great summer experience, and am glad I didn’t get my initial first choice. For all the bullshit that goes on with favoritism in group placement I will say that it can lead to a good outcome if go for a group large enough that alumni connections won’t limit you and focus on if you like the people you’re gonna be in the gulag with.
.
Dude I got filtered hard asf by the douchey ass Ivy kids (I hated the people so much but the group subject was my passion), but ended up in a really great group with genuine people I like. It was a blessing in disguise, this might read like a cope but I'm legit happy and telling you not to worry OP, remember:
You will never be happy going to a party you weren't invited to in the first place
Which BBs are people talking about here?
MS just finished
I dont understand this post. Not judging I don't understand what he means
I've now read a few of your comments and you're a fuckin creature. You remind me of a dear old friend -- his name was Pizz. I miss Pizz. Pizz I hope you're doing well out there.
wdym... he is still pretty active on the forums
Which banks have this problem? And is this just a problem for non-target kids? Went through formal group placements and thought it was fine
Looks like MS from this thread. And JPM group placement was also rough... my target friend emailed the same person after I (nontarget) emailed them the day before and they got a response that same day while I got ghosted even after following up 2x
So glad the group placement process is over. I probably ended up talking to 40-50+ people throughout this process - probably was very unnecessary, but as an incoming intern I was terrified that if I didn't put in the effort I'd end up in a bad group. I wound up being placed into my top pick - a group with a pretty strong alumni connection - but can attest that for the groups where I didn't know anyone, it was super painful to reach out, schedule times and get them to connect me with other people. I also found the majority of these calls to feel very awkward.
Jesus 40-50+ across how many groups? And which bank is this?
I'll admit I was a bit excessive. Cast a wide net at first so did 6-7 groups, then narrowed down to top 2-3. At a BB.
Whenever I speak to people who hit me up for opportunities from my college I always rank the kids higher who are “real” on the phone over the ones who practiced “how to do a networking call”. I don’t expect or want kids to be hardos and know what I do, I don’t want them to be ridiculous or over formal, and most important don’t pretend this is your actual goal unless you genuinely want it.
People who are normal, did SOME research and have basic concepts down are all we should care about for disqualification. Everything else…the important stuff!!…should be about how the person comes off, if they seem to work hard, are a good guy or not, and lastly if they will fit in with the team (not if they will bring a jarring personality difference for perspective…interrupt our flow ugh).
Other than a tap on the shoulder for some legacy that over rules your fair and value adding judgment…(it’s out of my hands at that point lol).
The unfortunate reality is that you will have to do this "selling yourself" bit in every step of your career, whether PE or banking. For reviews, for promos, to win clients as a banker / win competitive processes in PE. This really is a people business.
Heads down hard work grind only takes you so far, and frankly, it's not enough. That shit will cap you as a good associate IMO.
How long did it take for people to find out their placement?
Around 2-3 weeks after the deadline to submit preferences
Although it ended up working out for me, Barclays group placement is kind of a shitshow. Kinda cruel to accept someone to an INVESTMENT BANKING SA role and then include a bunch of wack basically non-IB product groups that people can still end up in.
Wells Fargo is even worse in this regard. You don't even find out what city you're in until placement.
This is why I turned down a WF SA offer and shopped it for a BB one instead, which I was fortunate enough to get. Landed one of the top groups in placement too, so I got lucky it all worked out. Knowing my luck if I took WF, I'd be in Charlotte wanting to kill myself doing ABS
Hah, I saw that Barclays group placement email. How is that going? What does the process look like? Curious
Summer Associates recruit directly into the groups
Look guys, the world isn’t fair. You’ve gotta beat the odds some-how or some-way. If you don’t win, get better and try again. Complaining and blaming it on unfair treatment is garbage mentality. If you were as good as you thought you deserved you wouldn’t end up in this situation to begin with; stop complaining and realize life isn’t fair.
There it is-the "spread your cheeks and take it" comment. Did a single person in this entire thread complain about where they ended up? Group placement is a ridiculous process regardless of whether you end up at the right group or not. Whatt is so terrible about complaining about a messed up system?
^^ This
Same background - public school / reduced lunch etc etc.. I think there comes a time when you have to drop the fact that non-targets had to work harder to break-in.
I agree with everything your saying, it’s difficult to break-in, and once you do, it’s difficult to gain any traction with groups that treat you like your meant to be. However, at the end of the day nobody really cares about your past. Nobody cares about where you’d like to be in the next year, 2 years, 5yrs etc… you have proven that you can get into banking so take that perseverance and work ethic and channel it into efforts of reaching your next goal. Also, don’t forget to stop, take a breath of fresh air and look back at how far you’ve come. I got placed in a group at the very bottom of my preference list but looking back 2 years ago I didn’t even know if I would break into banking at all.
Stay humble, work hard, your efforts shouldn’t be praised any more or less than anyone else that entered IB. It’s nobody’s fault other kids had it easier, we would wish that same experience for our own kids.
Cheers
What happened?
??
Fuckin true. Talked to like 15 people on the team I wanted to join for placement and just heard back today that I got my 4th choice. Absolute bullshit.
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