Columbia - How are they perceived on the street?
How Columbia University is perceived on wall street? I hear alot on this forum about HYPS and sometimes dartmouth but i dont really hear that much about columbia. I am a high school senior soon to be applying to schools and i like columbias engineering school because i thought its location and prestige could help me get an ibanking job. Any info about columbias reputation is appreciated.
Columbia's engineering program is easier to get into than the College (the same goes for Penn and Dartmouth), but given that they're ivies they're still good choices. I think Cornell is the only ivy league school that has a top engineering department, but it's about the school name, and major/program quality doesn't matter as much. If anything, engineering would be a desirable major. So SEAS should be fine.
similar to UChicago. Great education.
but not as many ops to swill beer as you get at Duke and 3rd-Tier Ivies like Dart/Corn/Brown.
audron, im going to be a freshman this year at columbia SEAS majoring in chemE. I also want to pursue a career in IB after college, which i heavily considered when applying to columbia. I went and talked to alot of the department heads and they gave me a breakdown of graduate placement that they had on wall street, and each department, especially financial engineering, sent an impressive amount into BB firms. I dont know how columbia is percieved on the street, youll have to get someone else on here to tell you that, but from what i learned so far about columbia, and specifically their engr school, they have pretty good placement. And to jaclee317, its true columbia's engineering school has a higher acceptance rate than the college (18% vs 9%), but that hardly means its easier to get into when considering entering student SAT and gpas, which SEAS has a significantly higher performance on than the college. I dont know about penn and dmouth, but in general engr schools tend to have higher acceptance rates but also higher stats than their liberal arts counterparts (eg caltech/harvey mudd vs pomona/mckenna).
Columbia is better than NYU for Finance jobs?
Yeah I think it's safe to say that.
Easily. They have more people in ibd than NYU and a much smaller class. Additionally, there is no business school at Columbia so you there are not a ton of business undergrads competing for the same jobs.
Actually that is not true. 25% of Stern's seniors work in I-banking. If you are comparing the Universities as a whole, that is one thing, but Stern and Columbia are very comparable. I would not venture to give either one an edge.
yes, and in general, columbia undergrads are a cut above NYU students. why shouldn't columbia be more sought-after for top finance positions?
Columbia's Operations Research kids place really well. I had two friends who went through that program. One is in M&A at JPM, the other is at MS.
Columbia gets a lot of BB recruiting attention in general, plus the networking opportunities (think: internships during semester etc) are really solid.
Its as good as it gets unless your at either Harvard Princeton Stanford or Wharton, and similar too but less fun-oriented than Dartmouth Duke Cornell and Brown (next best thing).
Being in engineering doesn't matter, it just means you'll have a harder time getting a high GPA, less time for EC's, but in the end of the day its still Columbia.
I toured Columbia for undergrad - great campus - super intellectual environment. As posted above, you have to get into the Fu School of Engineering, where you could only study Economics. The MBA is what you want to go to Columbia for - Especially if you're going to operate in NY. It's the best MBA in the city.
Hey, I'm just about to start my second year at Columbia in Econ-OR.
SEAS' IEOR department is great, especially the new Financial Engineering program, the closest thing that Columbia has to an undergrad finance program.
Agreed that SEAS isn't easier to get into than the College. The numbers might show a higher acceptance rate, but engineers tend to self-select so their applicant pool is therefore of higher quality (and smaller).
Columbia's Center for Career Services is great for entry into finance. They're not so hot if you're looking to do something else, but it feels like the vast majority of their energy is dedicated to the pre-finance students.
Being in New York is great--I'm going to have the opportunity to work at a BB during the school year because it is just a short trip down the 1 line. The program I'm in was only open to Columbia and Stern kids because of proximity.
And in terms of swilling beer: there are plenty of opportunities for that here, but then there's also all of New York in which to play... Might as well enjoy it now if you're not going to be seeing much of it as you slog through your analyst days.
I would actually put Columbia a cut above a Dartmouth, Brown, etc. Its basically a Chicago. What’s great is that you have a huge advantage during recruiting. Additionally, I would guess that Columbia summers are at an advantage because they are working in a familiar environment and don't feel the need to waste money at all the inane clubs and bars and stumble in hungover the next day because they already think they are too cool for those places.
I went to Columbia, and I would agree that IEOR or Econ-OR is the way to go. IEOR grades are easy compared to engineering proper, so you can have an ib appropriate GPA.
Additionally, getting a job in finance after sophomore year (which, in turn, makes a banking internship much easier to get) is much easier if you are in New York. Many of my friends in finance got their jobs through networking in the city throughout the entire year—something which must be squeezed into a week or two otherwise. One of them actually got the job through a guy he met at a bar one night.
Finally, I think the engineering school is actually easier to get into (although not by much). The college has different standards in admission which focus more on other activities. In the college you are more likely to find someone that started a business in high school, was a top national debater, etc. Engineering school is more number focused, so its not that surprising that they have higher numbers of people coming in. The one caveat is that for girls, it is more skewed—definitely easier to get into engineering. For guys it’s a wash.
Yeah, I understand that engineering as a field of study is definitely self-selected. So admissions stats aren't everything. But for some reason, I just know so many "average" kids from my high school who applied for SEAS (and got in) with the intention of transferring to the College.
But like I said, it's definitely a target regardless.
wow, thanks a bunch everyone. i know ivies are exactly known for engineering (cornell aside), but i liked columbia alot and hope that the name will help me get onto wall street.
If you get in Princeton, go. It is the best, better than Harvard, Yale, sometimes even Wharton for I bank recruiting. If you do consider wharton, do the Huntsman program.
you must be joking, Columbia has a lot more cred on the street than Stern. And to point to "25% of Stern's seniors work in I-banking" as contrary evidence, Stern is a business school whereas Columbia University doesn't even have an undergraduate business major much less an entire school devoted to it. So even if 25% of seniors do go into banking, it's hardly comparing apples to apples
Seen a bunch more Columbia students than NYU students, to me Columbia seems much better repped
My friend studied engineering at Columbia and now works at Bear Sterns. It was actually quite easy for her to get into BS and she loves it there now.
"Babies don't cost money, they MAKE money. Especially those white ones" - Jerri Blank
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Isn't an IEOR or FE background in SEAS more preparatory for quant work on Wall Street? Is it still good for Investment Banking in particular?
If you want to go into IB and do not think you can land into a top ivy school of arts and sciences / Wharton, this is what you should do.
Apply to Penn Engineering (acceptance rate is in the mid 20%, compared to under 10% for Wharton).
Do not take any core science classes freshman year, just take intro econ 1 and 2, as well as math 104 and 114. Fill your other credits with easy GPA boosters.
Transfer to Wharton sophomore year. Cutoff is a 3.6 for internal transfer, regardless of diffulty of curriculum. Following that, as long as you maintain your GPA at around a 3.8, you are in the best undergraduate position to secure an IB job.
^ You know... I had no idea that the star rating system would be this useful. But it just came to me how many uninformed retards who act like they know a damn thing about what they are posting about there are in this forum.
Banklove, I graduated from Wharton and know quite a few people who followed the exact path I described. I also work in IBD and can tell you that Wharton is the absolute #1 feeder school for banking, particularly when compared against Columbia engineering. Columbia definitely has a presence on our recruiting quota, but there is a significantly greater allocation of space reserved for Wharton grads.
Before you call someone out, usually you present facts that disqualify their statements. Given that you have offered none, I am just going to assume that you are a complete idiot. If by some chance you have some facts to disprove my statement, by all means... I would love to hear your convoluted logic. If not, please shut up.
^schlepp
But if you compare the size of Columbia SEAS to Wharton, in terms of student numbers, there is a huge difference. Plus there is also more than likely to be a higher proportion of Wharton students interested in IB, rather than the proportion of SEAS students that are interested in IB.
YaSung, what is your point about the student numbers? If you mean that due to the "unique" nature of a Columbia SEAS applicant, he or she would be more likely than your "average" Wharton student to be selected for an interview, that is completely incorrect. Hypothetically, if I had two resumes in front of me with identical GPAs / experience / leadership with the only distinction being that one is from Columbia SEAS and one is from Wharton, I would always choose the Wharton candidate. This is true 9 times out of 10 across all BB banks.
This isn't even taking into account that the SEAS curriculum is significantly harder than Wharton's, and thus harder to earn a high GPA in. We DO NOT take difficulty into account when screening resumes. Though a 3.3 SEAS student may easily earn a 3.8 in Wharton, it just does not make a difference to us; the 3.8 Wharton will always be chosen before the SEAS student. Fair? No, but it is the way things are done. If you happen to earn a 3.8 in SEAS, then you may have a shot, but you will have to work your ass off to earn that and even still, the Wharton student would be at an advantage. The same comparison is valid when comparing Columbia SEAS to Columbia College. Unfortunately, a 3.8 Columbia Economics major will always edge out a 3.4 Columbia SEAS student, all other things equal.
And by the way, Columbia SEAS admits 610; Wharton admits 650... not much of a difference there.
It seems that you are suggesting that Columbia SEAS offers more opportunity to get into IB than Wharton due to class size and proportion of students interested. If you are indeed suggesting that, then you are mistaken.
I don't understand all this BS about going to SEAS (the engineering school) if you want IB. If you want to work at a hedge fund, then SEAS probably makes more sense. If you want IB and your only reason for picking SEAS over the college is that you think it will get you in the door, then I think you're being ridiculous. I just graduated from the college with a humanities degree and I'm working in IBD starting next month. A bunch of my friends also graduated with humanities degrees and they're working in IBD too. My SEAS friends, for the most part, are working in S&T or HF.
Columbia - Interested in both mathematics and statistics (Originally Posted: 11/12/2007)
I am interested in both the MS in Applied Mathematics program and the MA in Statistics program at Columbia. I am just wondering about the following:
1) Which one is better recruited at IBs? (Applied Math program is in SEAS, while Stats program is in GSAS)
2) Given that I want to work as a trader, which program is more relevant for trading?
3) Is it possible for me to get into investment banking out of either program?
Thanks in advance.
well the MS in Financial Engineering is the clear pathway- I'm guessing you don't think you're competitive for that?
I already have the MS in Financial Engineering degree from a top 5 program. Does it make any sense for me to get another master's degree so that more doors are open for me to get into trading and/or investment banking? Obviously, the things that I want to get out of Columbia are its brand name and Wall Street opportunities...
No, its not worth it. But you should already know this if you do in fact have a MS in financial engineering from a top 5 college... which is odd because MS financial engineering grads have about 95% employment rates in their field of choice. Whats the matter with you? :P
Kidding...just keep up the job search. Its unlikely that ANOTHER degree will get you where you want to go.
will a Columbia BS in Financial Engineering guarantee a job in investment banking? is business internship required/strongly recommended during my years there?
There are no guarantees in anything, but if maintain a decent GPA and land an internship, youd have to be a complete shnook not to be able to land some sort of full time IB job after graduation.
And yes, an internship is pretty important these days
You're not guaranteed with a B.S. in Financial Engineering, but when I interned I worked with a few other SAs with such majors.
A BA in financial engineering barely helps and is no way a guarantee. It may actually hurt you if you didn't learn stochastic processes well and they ask you that during the interview. THere are many other equally capable students who decided to do econ, econ-math, econ-or, or...etc.
Columbia - Placing or rankings? (Originally Posted: 04/24/2007)
Anyone know how Columbia placed this year/historically? My friend who wants to do IB is thinking of transferring there.
They place the lights out at Lehman, probably more than any other school. Do pretty well at JP too, like 6+. 4-6, for CS, UBS, ML But for MS and GS, not so great. MS has only around 2 each year, GS anywhere from 1-3. This year's crop included a girl(easier to get in), connected kid, and some ridiculously awkward SEO kid.
that is
"girl(easier to get in), connected kid, and some ridiculously awkward SEO kid"
-uh, are you talking about GS because if you are that's completely BS...
Also, Columbia sent ~5 to MS this year. Get it right.
Columbia does pretty well but there is a lot of competition too. One advantage is that it is NYC so you can do stuff like cold call small places and arrange informational interviews, work part time during the school year (maybe as a night analyst), etc.
I know ML has a really strong U of Chicago network. MS not so much. I would be curious to know what schools have strong networks there...
How is this post at all relevant?
Columbia places very well at Citi also.
in TMT. ~3 from Harvard
and a couple in other places
Columbia College and Engineering only sent 2 two bankers to MS, mightve been more from MA and general studies. GS I know as fact, those are the three kids. Columbia doesn't do AS well at Citi, usually only a couple a year though the team is getting stronger. This is all for IBD
lol, considering I do recruiting at GS...
we have at least 4 this year from Columbia.
of the 2 in TMT, the "girl" and some asian kid, both are straight up ridiculous. Both did banking as a sophomore and both have close to 4.0's in Columbia Engineering. Both were at the top of the TMT list and killed their interviews. I think those two each had like 7 offers from other places. I met both of them.
MS has at least 4. Believe me, I know two of them at the college.
Columbia did very well at GS and MS this year. Nothing like Harvard though.
CU-LB is right, I think. 3 to GS and 2 to MS for the summer from CU undergrad, including the weird SEO kid (if you're from columbia, you know who he is). Places well in general, but definitely not in the same tier as Harvard, Wharton, Yale, etc.
my buddy told me there are lots of incoming s&T FT analysts from columbia
use your head on this one. top school? check. in new york city? check. what more do you need?
5 Columbia kids are going to MS IBD for the summer.
Isn't Columbia a small(est?) ivy at the undergrad level? I think around 1000 per year. Placement odds seem very good. Also well represented in structuring/sales/trading. In other words, it's a good target, obviously.
Dartmouth undergrad is smallest. And Princeton, Yale, and Brown are all smaller than Columbia. Regardless, Columbia is still a great place to be if you want to go into finance.
GSBanker: What did the 2 kids in TMT from Columbia Engineering major in? IEOR or something more traditional?
How good is Columbia? (Originally Posted: 03/09/2010)
I am new to this forum, but I wanted to ask what people think about Columbia's relative strength to the schools ranked ahead of it. Would it make that much of a difference in a person's career if they chose Columbia over Chicago? I visited both of the programs, have admits to both of them, and I really, really just like CBS the most. The rankings say different. If I am a career changer with a short term goal of BB IBD M&A and my long term goal is boutique advisory/PE, will I really have any significant advantage going to Chicago?
What if I change my mind and decide to go the consulting route--then which school has the significant advantage, if there really is one. After really debating it, it seems to me the person makes the difference and either school will really set you up for success, so choosing based off of fit should be what it comes down to.
Final question--what about Wharton? Lets say I have the option to take a year and reapply to Wharton--would it be worth it? Is there that much of a difference in the potential success I can have in my career with a Wharton MBA over a CBS or Chicago MBA?
Thoughts appreciated.
Columbia is a great school. Solid rep in NYC as well as elsewhere. I would dare to say that if you have been admitted to both of these amazing schools you should have no problem succeeding wherever you go.
Im a bit biased but go to Columbia, KKR recruits.
Don't listen to SirBankalot. Columbia Business School places better in banking than NYU Stern. That said, both CBS and Booth are excellent for a career switch into finance. I'm also a bit biased, but you'll have a better academic experience at Chicago, and a tighter sense of community. Career service really goes to bat for you. On the other hand, Columbia is great for its location for networking, recruiting, interviewing, and for overall living.
As to the Wharton question, I don't have an answer. I think the trade-off is one year of your life versus the marginal prestige and opportunities you gain from the Wharton brand name (you should factor your chances of getting in also). If your immediate goal is to get into BB IBD M&A, both CBS and Booth will get you there no problem.
ignore sirbankalot. clearly theres something else going on if he thinks columbia is a second tier school to which nyu is superior.
as to your question, the answer is chicago. first of all its better in finance which both schools are known for. then it also has a more distinguished faculty, better facilities, a larger endowment, better wall street cred, higher IB and PE placement, higher prestige factor and a better overall ranking, ....i think thats enough, no?
now some will argue that being in new york gives you a better opportunity for recruiting. thats a valid point, but i think its often overstated when youre comparing it to other top five schools. tho i do think that factor comes more into play if youre looking at the boutique ib/hf/pe/vc level.
anyway, knowing all of this if you still want to go to columbia. do it. sometimes in life you just have to go with your gut. every decision you make in life cant be about numbers and prestige. but make the decision with your eyes open. you do not want to have regrets. GL.
and with regards to wharton, agree w/ jnl's framework, but i dont think its worth it.
edit: i wouldnt even recommend holding out if you go to columbia in this regard there are just too many variables to control for and the short term downside is significant compared to the marginal upside...
The other factors that play in are that my wife and I want to end up living in NYC and it would allow her to start her "career" job 2 years earlier, as well as the fact that I wouldn't have to move and find a place to live for a NYC internship, and the fact that all of my friends and family live in Brooklyn and Manhattan.
If you want to let your wife start her career job earlier in nyc then do Columbia. If you want to do BB M&A right out you'll have plenty of options available (I did BB M&A and knew plenty of people from Columbia and we had quite a few recruiting events there as well). I've been considering applying to business schools myself, but to get out of banking (sortof an opposite path) instead of get into it. Either school you go with you've got a top tier choice, so it's not a bad situation to be in.
Go for Columbia. If you are a good student at either school you will be fine and as you mentioned, family, friends and wife are all saying Columbia. From a purely economic analysis, 2 years of your wifes income at a permanent job isn't all that bad while you are out of school. Plus you will be able to continually network in the city that you ultimately want to work and live in.
I went to Columbia and was able to garner a BB IBD associate position despite the financial crisis. Once you land the on-campus interview (not always a guarantee) and then proceed to the following rounds of interviews, it really comes down to the individual not the school.
If you are a career switcher, your success will depend on economy and how many offers IB are making. If for some reason you are unsuccessful during school it becomes extremely difficult. Same firms and recruiters don't look at candidates , once out of school and not being able to make a transition or working at no-name boutique.
So my advice will be to take any one of this and make the most out of it. I went to one of these schools and worked at a no-name boutique in IBD after graduation. however not much interview success since graduation.
So if economy doesn't improve and you are in the scenario of not making the career switch during school or work at a no-name boutique in IBD, an MBA degree from these reputable institutions is not worth more than Rutgers or DeVry MBA. No intending to demean these just to highlight the scenario
Booth has a solid reputation as a quantitative program and you'll have plenty of opps both within finance and outside of finance. It may not be quite as strong as Wharton for finance, but it's almost always a top-three overall MBA program in Businessweek.
That said, all three are very good schools and have strengths in different areas (Booth- overall management and quantitative disciplines; Wharton- finance; CBS- NYC). Me personally? I'd choose Booth rather than wait another year for Wharton, but that's just me.
Chicago just doesn't seem like a lot of fun. It sounds like way too much studying and not enough networking, going out, and having a well-rounded experience. Plus, like he said, he wants to work in NYC. That also means he doesn't have to travel for an internship or NYC interviews. It seems like people place CBS way below Chicago on this board, but it's an Ivy League school, isn't it? I mean, it seems like the employment stats for all the top 7 schools are pretty much the same, with Columbia actually having the highest average career salary (long term and short term). Its not like CBS doesn't have notable grads or top alumni (Warren Buffet, Henry Kravis). Sure, the NY club might suck compared to the Harvard club, but if you're a big swinging dick MD living on the upper west side, who cares, right?
Many Ivies do well with their MBA programs. Many Ivies struggle to compete with state schools like Michigan and UC Berkeley. Columbia is one of the better Ivies and it's close to a lot of banks. That doesn't mean we should automatically choose Columbia when other schools are consistently ranked higher in MBA surveys. Columbia is a great program; my view, however, is that you get more opportunities overall from Booth, and if Booth isn't exactly on par with Columbia within NYC, it's awfully close.
This is because more Columbia students have trouble getting as many competitive offers outside NYC as Booth or Harvard grads. $140K/year in Chicago or Boston is $250K/year in NYC.Obviously never studied there or visited. Alas, that is our reputation...
I highly doubt that about the cost of living comparison. Your other points are valid. I disagree that you think Tepper is a better/more prestigious school though.
Also, its only your first job. After that, its how you perform in your job.
Oh no, don't bring business week into the conversation.
Tepper is a great school btw
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I admit my previous comments were from the hip and ill informed. I also agree Tepper is great, but not in the same circles as the other schools being talked about on this thread. I still think the difference between CBS and Chicago in terms of potential success are minuscule, and he should go to CBS if he feels he would be happier there.
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