Just met a French I-Banker. He told me he gets 8 weeks off a year... I take about 1 week off a year while others in my office take 1 week off every 1.5-2 years (I'm in the US) He also has more purchasing power than me from what I hear.
Can someone fact check this for me? I find it outrageous.
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At my previous bank yeah, people were getting on average 8 weeks off per year, at my current boutique about 4 weeks. People here are entitled to 30 days of annual leave. And if you bank makes you clock in, any hours you work over 35-40h/week, will slowly add up to what we call RTT - which basically means you get extra days of holidays for all the additional hours you have worked. Not gonna lie but France is a pretty sweet place to work (despite the horribly high taxes)
That's amazing tbh. How is the pay like in France? Also believe it or not I don't think the taxes in France are that much worse than in some states in the US like California or NYC. The COL is also very good in France. I was shocked at my spending power when I visited.
The stereotype is that the pay in finance in Europe is generally lower than in the US, however I don't know much about the pay over there so I'll let you be the judge.
I am an intern so my pay is relatively low, but one of my friends will be starting at an EB in July 2023 (intern who converted to full time) and the pay is €95k + bonus. Another friend who's an An1 at an American BB is earning €140k (bonus included).
Groceries (fresh produce) and renting is definitely cheaper in Paris than in NYC and California.
I'm not French myself but I do recommend to everyone trying living and working in Paris at least once in their lives, quality of life is amazing here!
It depends for which bank you are working for, but this is definitely a plus if you want to work in Paris (I'm French btw).
Can confirm, especially if your clients at the bank are "traditional" French companies - those will want their pitchbooks in French.
France: around 33-34 days so more like 7ish weeks (+ bank holidays of course)
UK: norm at 5 weeks + bank holidays
Pay: materially lower in France than in the UK. Materially lower in the UK than in the US. Salaries have increased much faster in the US than in Europe over last years. Rule of thumb : for same job, $200 = £125 = €100
So a VP/director paid $600k in the US would typically be paid €300k in France with the ratio probably a bit higher when markets peak. But another big difference is that the top paying jobs in US finance such as HF PM or MF partner barely exist. M&A MD is like the best paying job, with UMM PE/top lawyer/C-suite (leaving aside entrepreneurship).
Cost of life somehow correlated but not 1 to 1. Fewer inequalities in France so poor ppl live better than in the US but higher earners have less purchasing power, even if real estate seems fucked in the US at the moment.
Higher taxes as well in France, especially on salaries, even vs NY/Cal or London. Not even comparable. A typical American would find them absurd.
Thanks for the insight.
I think there might be a bigger disparity in COL than you think at the moment. I pay $3k for a small 1-bedroom in NYC (and that's on the lower end of stuff without utilities and other bills) which is apparently 2.5-3x more than what a Parisian would pay for the same type of lodging. The other day I ate a great meal that for sure would have cost 2x more in the US. Groceries, hotels, flights etc etc are all substantially more expensive in the US. I'm starting to think we pay way more for stuff in the US than in Paris but that is anecdotal so correct me if I am wrong (taking into account tax and tip which also inflate prices in the US, not just sticker price) Also TBH all of this comparison is driven by the recent developments in exchange rate. I think right now Europe is extremely cheap for an American.
I also find that the work life balance culture, social benefits like health insurance, very generous PTO are huge pluses. Yes probably more interesting jobs here but damn I am jealous.
The pay "materially lower in France than in the UK." is absolutely not true, at least at junior level.
Base is much higher in France than in the UK, and it gets a bit rebalanced when you add bonuses (but still not lower). On top of that you also add the "participation des salariés" which gives additional income with tax davantage to French workers based on the profit of the company
Do you know what WLB and pay is like in Germany and Switzerland (or other EU countries where English is acceptable)?
This is false. Poor Europeans are NOT better off than poor Americans this is a liberal talking point. Look up 25%ile incomes AFTER taxes and transfers in the us vs France or Germany. The US is equal to better. The us is more unequal because our richest are far richer but our poorest are absolutely equal ish to Europeans but relatively much worse off.
This is a key point people need to internalize. Cato, pew etc have great research on this.
regarding the pay, it's pretty different from what you describe. Most places paying £65-70k base in the UK pay 85-90k with some paying €75/80 and a few €95/105 base. After bonus and Tax is a bit more aligned, as gross comp in London this year looked like €100-110k on average for top bucket and in France/Milan €140-150k
Higher taxes in both France and Italy but better COL than the UK and on average worse WLB. Overall I would say that the worst place to do banking right now is the UK (sky-high inflation, lower base raises/comp and weak currency against USD/EUR
I thought that WLB at French banks was absolutely miserable? Have heard this multiple times
Yea especially BNP and Lazard I heard are pulling insane hours. Same with Frankfurt.
What are the hours like? Protected weekends?
Lazard is insane, but BNP Paribas' work life balance is absolutely not comparable, it is so sweet
Culturally, M&A/IBD is tough in France. Better than in Germany but worse than UK (but maybe not in terms of pure hours). BNPP far from the worst
But so they do French lunches? The old school French lunch is an experience to behold. A big fat glass of wine they drink relatively fast to get the conversation going and it’s out of your system when it’s over…2 hours later. Finish with an espresso. 3 courses minimum. Work picks up the tab with “lunch tickets”. Multiple variations of steak tartare. No vegans in France. It’s the main meal of the day. They encouraged me to drink up at lunch on my job interview. Flirting with the HR chick is pretty much encouraged. Say what you will, but the French are very old-school in many ways. It’s almost Mad Men. The downside is the pay.
Wokeism hasn't destroyed this country yet.
Is France is Paradise next?
Lunch break is super important in France, you will eat at your desk very rarely, but no you obviously won't take a 3 course meal with wine everyday
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