Females in IB
What does the gender split look like at your bank? Does it change considerably at a particular level? Interested to hear perspectives / experiences on whether the male-dominated rep of the industry still applies.
What does the gender split look like at your bank? Does it change considerably at a particular level? Interested to hear perspectives / experiences on whether the male-dominated rep of the industry still applies.
Career Resources
grad intake is supposed to be at 50%, but often ends up less. these schemes run at around 35%-45% for 2-3 years. then the drop starts to form, over the years 4-10 we will see a reduction in staffers who self-identify as female to as little as 25%. re-hiring professionals later on to even this out is not a possibility, spoke with HR about this often.
My groups 1st year class has more girls than guys
Same - I think the women outnumbered the men in our pool of second year analysts.
The problem isn't really with recruiting women at the analyst level - it's getting women in at the associate-level and keeping them until they hit VP. I think most MBA classes skew 1:2 women-to-men, with the population of women pursuing IB / AM being muuuuuuuch smaller than the % of men pursuing finance or IB within a given T20 MBA program (or that was the case for mine, at least).
I'm going to assume your bank is heavily male-dominated, otherwise you would've known that they're referred to as women and not females
Female representation, female-dominated industries, etc etc
He prob works at Jeffries and all the women have left
Dumb
Did you notice that that poster uses “male” non-chalantly while getting upset over the term “female”?
As a woman / female, I don't get my feelings hurt over being called a "female" instead of a "woman." I have bigger things than semantics to cry about.
Like the lower bonus amount for women compared to men in IB?
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Guys who typically refer to women as "females" are the kind of guys who think themselves to be "nice guys" and "not like other guys" and being nice to a girl entitles them to sex.
Karen
Industrials coverage usually has the least females with tech usually being the highest
You forgot Consumer. Usually the highest rep, >50% sometimes
I reported on this merger earlier last week. I wonder how it is gonna effect women/men ratio at the newly formed super bank. Link below. Definitely give it a look!
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/investment-banking/wells-fargo-en…
Def depends on which bank
fwiw I think Energy/Power would have the lowest representation
Can’t give women Power ;)
What about FIG
My IND An Class is 50/50
LOL - can confirm
I bet Nat Res coverage has Industrials beat re: % of female coverage bankers...
It's probably 50-50 (or pretty close to 50-50) across junior levels, ANL and ASO. But VP and above I think it's largely male, probably 70%+. For example, in my coverage group our most senior women are all associates, and for whatever reason no one stays on to VP or higher, even with the seniors actively pushing them to stay.
Also varies across industries, so for example I think there tends to be more women in TMT and Consumer / Retail than other industry coverage groups.
My team has 2 women in a group of 18
Was in a large-ish coverage group at a BB. Split was 50-50 through Analyst and Associate ranks and trailed off after. Maybe 1/3 VPs, 0 Directors, and 2-3 MDs.
Why do you think that is?
I think that recruitment is easiest to control at the analyst and associate-levels because of the structured recruitment and the exit opportunities that draw people in. Beyond that there's a few reasons I think you have less women around:
- Family: After 6-10 years, when people are entering the VP and beyond-level, many women have to/choose to take a career pause to start a family. This sets them back a few years during a crucial point in their careers when they are expected to manage relationships, lead juniors, and take on more responsibility. Having a break in this period throws things off and sets them back compared to peers because many senior people hold these decisions against women.
- Promotions: Promotions are less regular and more based on mentorship, firm politics, client relationships, etc. If you have taken a few years off, it can make it harder to maintain those relationships. Every day you're out of the office someone is competing to win your business.
- Attrition: Not many people stick around for long haul. Given that the 50-50 recruitment goals are a recent phenomenon, it will take a long time to see the benefits of diverse classes paying off. If, let's say, only 10% of each class is sticking around in banking for the long-term, then you need a very large number of people of each gender/race/whichever identity to see meaningful representation at the upper echelons of banking.
Probably better for an actual woman to chime in but as a man who asked this question before, these are some of the answers I got.
My ~35 person group has 2 women, both analysts. Office is about ~200 people and has no women MDs
50/50 at analyst. Hard to find female associates from b-school so a bit lower (~30%) and much lower after, like 1 female MD out of 20.
The push for a more even split started ~5-7 years ago so even if someone chose to stay, they've be early VP at most
Banks are trying to have an overall 50-50 split. You’ll see heavy promotion to this
And this is at the cost of shareholder value with dimwits occupying places
The amount of people who say "females" instead of "women" in the comments is staggering and telling.
So I know this has been said - but as a learning moment- please call us women - women. We don't call men boys or males. The term female and girl are not the preferred respectful noun when describing our gender. And to answer your question - at my level the ratio of women to men is around 5-10% women to men. Generally on a call with 10-15 people I'm the only woman there.
Girl you talking crazyy
Respectfully, I'm female / a woman and I don't claim to speak on behalf of an entire gender, but I don't regard either term as a pejorative. I think people may be reading too much into semantics here - the only reason I used the term "female" was because I had "female representation" in mind and it's not commonplace to refer to "women representation." But each to their own - and thank you all the same for your answer to my original question.
There are a lot of articles explaining about it why it's inappropriate to use this term to describe women. Check them out but here are a few:
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-should-you-stop-referring-women-fema…
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/comma-queen/female-trouble-the-debate…
https://medium.com/@hollymeijohnson/the-problem-with-referring-to-women…
Speak for yourself, I call males/men/boys "scrawny little boys" all the time :P
We call men guys all the time dude what are u smoking pass some over
news to me...
Are you hot?
Babe whats your number?
Our firm has a 50/50 analyst hiring quota despite applications from women being 20-30% of the overall pool. Women tend to self select out post analyst years so 50/50 drops at AO but theres meetings internally to significantly increase women promotions. Discrimination if you ask but thats whats happening
At a European bank and analyst classes are actually >50% women atm. But begins to fall off from the VP level onwards and aren't heavily represented among Directors and MDs.
I mean this isn’t that surprising is it? Usually the female helps with the kids in some capacity, while the male remains in the high-powered job. In more cushier groups (40-50 hrs) you’ll see the dynamic shift. Ive come across back office groups that are 100% female and > 50% is often the norm.
I interned in a product group at a BB in London and we had broad female representation. Group of around 30 with 1 analyst being a woman (there were only 2 analysts), 2 associates being women, 3 VPs being women (although 1 of them were Syndicate), and 2 women being Directors, 0 MDs (thus far).
8/30
Same here, pleasantly surprised to see more even % than I expected. Looking at my old analyst class almost 10 years ago, right around ~80% men, ~20% women. The handful of associates were all male from that year though if I remember correctly.
people trying to use "woman" as an adjective is the funniest shit
All the women at my bank are smokes. Seems like some innate biases by the men who hired them. I'm not complaining.
Jealous. I know i work at a sausage-fest when our gc is all about getting the hot hr girls number. So down bad that we even hit on girls from pitchbook
hr is going into risky territory. Aim for chics in one of the cushy BO roles like ops or treasury.
In my Associate class, 1/10 were female (she went to C&R). Out of the Analyst class that joined at the same time, I'd estimate ~25%-30% were female. In my M&A group, 10% of the people from top to bottom are female, and the overwhelming majority of people I interviewed this year are male. There are far fewer female applicants than male. Additionally, not one woman in my MBA program applied to a bank, either. Most of them wanted consulting between that and IB.
Women in finance = I don't care about my personal life and I wear the pants in any relationship. That's at least my read-thru from personal experience
Females in finance have super Type-A personalities. Which is fine but I pretty much immediately exclude a girl as a potential partner if I know she works in finance / law. Pretty much anything else is fine tho
At least attempt to read the post and not just the title next time.
Jumped from A to Z real quick there...
50/50 gender split at grad level, mandated by HR/ diversity quotas - think it's the same across most BBs
Attrition falls off heavily towards VP/ED/MD level - as well as the family/children point, women also have easier exit opps & less motivation to stay - which large HF/AM/PE shop doesn't also target hiring women these days?
Our intakes are basically just diversity now.
Either mostly female and those that are diversity hires. A few are actually good but most have clearly been solely chosen to tick the corporate propaganda box.
Then it seeks to even out as you head into associate and VP territory with very few directors or MDs
Regress is the new progress
Zero women, straight up dudes. Which, I hate. I feel like having young girls in the group makes the asshole, boomer MD, straight white patriarch types ease up a little bit. For whatever reason they're totally willing to crush the soul of other young dudes but play light around the little girlies.
Caveat is if you have these girlies in group, they will be worked less for similar or higher bonus. Plus, priority in promotions. Then, you as male A&A are over-worked, relatively underpaid, and shown the door to facilitate their promotions.
#canrelate
Why do I feel kinda ashamed about myself for clicking on this thread once I read the title? 😄
I don't know why this hasn't been mentioned in any of the posts above - but easy to have 50/50 splits or better at junior levels. As you move up, yes family and politics come into play - but as an execution VP now at a smaller firm, having left much bigger BB and MM firms, I can tell you that I HIGHLY underestimated the politics that come into play. It doesn't just get in the way with your superiors / MDs in navigating promotions, but also your management. How many times I have to turn comments myself, make my own books because juniors refuse to do it unless an MD (men usually) bark out the orders? This is all fine when you're junior because you think to listen to everyone, but all of a sudden you're responsible for business development as well as execution, and you can't get the team to help you with your ideas, so you have to manage that yourself in addition to all the other responsibilities. So while juniors are all curious as to why women don't stay on, take a look at yourselves too - do you treat women fairly? Do you question them more than your superiors that are men? Do you give truthful and thoughtful 360 reviews or feedback to other MDs what it's like to work with you, or do you contribute to to the toxic environment, and say that your female associate / VP / MD whatnot, is "demanding", "b*tchy", "too aggressive," "doesn't ask you enough about how your weekend was or if you caught the game last night" - and then senior mgmt who already is biased against women, are even more biased because women can't motivate a team, or push a team to do better quality work or more output like men staffers can?
Couldn’t agree with you less. At times, felt helpless during VP years and culprits more often than not were “untouchable” female A&A. Accountability is not something they accustomed to.
There is a fundamental lack of respect for female Associate+ as juniors find you incompetent, lacking in leadership and your promotions are often forced due to DEI quotas. You are not the super star which that horny MD and greedy group head make it out to be to pad their DEI targets and collect their bonuses. Most of times, whenever, there is an important file they have to double staff it with competent male peers to pick your slack. Have you not wondered how you can keep collecting those nice bonuses without ever holding the pen on that sell-side model of that multi-billion deal or ever wondered how you got promoted without going above and beyond or showing initiative on work streams. Even at the analyst level females apps are ~30% but ~50% seats are reserved for them. This is discrimination and people are ok with it as long as beneficiaries are white women.
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