Hey Target Kids - Stop Networking With Me
Interesting trend I've noticed over the past year: an increase in target school kids reaching out on LinkedIn (still normal rate on email). Usually had about 15 a month or so but the increase in target school kids is interesting. For context, I'm an associate 1 at a BB.
Here's a note I got today:
Saw you were at MS and would love to chat about MS and IB. You free this week?
Here's why this doesn't bode will:
#1 - We didn't go to the same school. I didn't go to a target. It shows that in my profile. Moreover, you have no affiliation to my school. If you are going to a Stanford/Wharton/Brown/Middlebury etc, why the hell should I pick up the phone to take your call? All this tells me is that you aren't using the prime grass-fed automatic pipeline you have OR that you're sneaking around said pipeline and hoping your resume will dazzle me. I'll give you a hint: it won't. I don't care you went to a target school. It makes no difference to me. What does make a difference is the red flag that you aren't emailing the 100 other people from your school at my bank.
#2 - No shared connections. Literally none. This isn't one professional to another. You are just swinging blind. See point #1 for why this is a red flag given your immense network at my bank. 0 reason you should be contacting me without highlighting a connection.
#3 - No situational awareness - What kind of messaging is that? No "interested to hear more about x" or "was hoping to connect about y". Just "saw you were at MS bro you free?" There's no professionalism in that.
With all that said, you would be surprised to hear I actually take a lot of calls. I like helping other people because no one gave me the time of day when I was going through this process. I just got lucky to snag a 1st round. If this kid was more professional and actually explained why he was reaching out, I maybe would have considered it. Stop being lazy. Stop being the cool guy. Respect people's time and be professional. This isn't about 1 kid's email. It's a trend and attitude I've noticed over the past year. No, that doesn't mean all target kids are like this. The majority aren't. They also are being strategic and networking with people who have an auto pipeline from their school. Bit of a clickbait title as I still network with target kids but you get the idea.
EDIT: I understand this will throw a lot of target folks and interns into a rage but don't forget everyone handles networking differently. There's no allegiance to anyone here. Not even when you actually get into banking. I've networked with many VPS and Directors who just don't answer emails other than work-related matters. If you can't agree that the kid in this example should be focusing all of their time on the 20+ bankers from his target school at my bank instead of me (with 0 connection to them) to maximize their chances, then you shouldn't be in banking either because your EQ is 0.
Lmao this is one kid ur bitching like a little bitch
Very heated that I won't network with your cousin, aren't you
buddy... you are getting so enraged over one kid that you had to write this whole essay about target school kids when you could've just ignored the request and spent time with your family/friends/partner over the holidays like a normal person.
Ok. Totally agree on point 3 but not with anything else. The point of us reaching out is to get an insider's perspective of the firm (I.e., learn things that we can't simply Google)
I go to a semi-target and I honestly have only had 3 (max) alums reach back out. My networking email is solid and resume is solid. A large majority of the people I have networked with have 0 connection to me whatsoever. They're just willing to help.
I get that it's annoying when snobby targets send you that message on LinkedIn, but you have to understand that we're just casting a wide net. In my case, the alums weren't as helpful as everyone said they were. It was the people I have 0 connections with that helped me out the most.
I said target (Wharton, Stanford, Yale, etc). I get emails from those kids all the time. Semi-target I understand.
Nah bro you said (Stanford/Wharton/Brown/Middlebury). Middlebury? Lol
I agree with you that the message could have been much better, but not sure why you're mad that they don't limit themselves to contacting alumni. When I was a student I networked with people from every school and now I take calls from people from any school.
When I was trying to land a seat in banking, I could barely get anyone on the phone. My school alumni was less than 5 folks above an analysts seat, and about 20 analysts across few different banks. Like you, I reached out to other non school alumni but it didn't go anywhere. In short, their allegiance to me was 0 and I completely understand. If they have 2 kids of same "level" but 1 is from their school, probability wise they will go w the kid from their school. I have a problem with this because there's 0 point in this kid networking with me. There's at least 2 dozen bankers from this target school in my bank. Why would they not call these individuals? Further, why would I help them if I have other kids in my inbox? Because they went to a target? There is no right answer and every banker will handle this differently.
I had a very different experience and got many responses from people who didn't go to my school, so maybe that explains our different viewpoints. (I'm also in a much smaller market than the US so maybe the dynamics are a bit different)
You have to realize the game has changed. JPM doesn't really have the dedicated recruiting teams of the past. It's getting much harder for target white males. Be compassionate or at least excited that top talent is taking the initiative to reach out and are hungry to break in whereas some of our peers who check a box might not even know what a CIM is but will waltz into a top offer. I understand email formats could be better but in general target kids don't have it as easy as you think…
You are the exact target kid I'm writing about. Never will I ever help you. Kids like you are the reason I am hesitant to reach out. You have literally 0 clue what's going on. My GF is at Citi (VP in corporate bank) and graduated from Miami. They have a lot of Miami kids in TTS/corporate banking. Do you know how many from Miami are in investment banking doing coverage? 1. Haven't taken a kid from undergrad straight to banking in 5+ years. I can't speak for Michigan but you don't have the facts straight.
I'm an associate dude why would I be "excited that top talent" is reaching out. He's a fucking prospective intern that's not top talent he's a 2nd year at Yale. You're completely off the mark and clearly don't know how to read because my post spelled out exactly why this is wrong.
Bro if you're an associate I think you would care about the quality of your analysts…
Your posts betray some repressed and deeper form of insecurity about your undergrad. Just move on bro
It's harder for target white males?? You and Andrew Tate need to get arrested together brother. This screams intern. Do you know what you see when you go to any floor of any bank? A fucking sea of target white males.
Yea I'm a sophomore and the last thing I need right now are attitudes like the OP. You aren't helping either lol. Early Insights programs fill most of the most desirable positions ahead of the main pool.
I have a suspicion that every person defending the target behavior ignores/will ignore networking request from non-targets. Why do I know this? Because there is a reason we even have labels such as target/semi-target/non-target and I can assure you it's not coming from non-target alums.
It's actually insane. Even after you've gotten an offer, there's so much snobbery against non-targets/semi-targets - analysts won't even give you the time of day if you're not a target/alum(na). How the hell are you supposed to build a career when even getting your foot through the door via an internship isn't enough when they'll just go with the target kid at the end anyway?
You have to focus in your efforts on the other bankers who:
a) didn't go to a target either.
b) have made hiring decisions in the past that hired non-targets.
If you can get an advocate on your side, especially a senior banker, that will do wonders when deciding if you will be hired.
"Oh no my pickles are tickled by the low effort outreach by a "target" student and use that as a strawman to blatantly project my obscene insecurity"
I am so glad I work far upmarket from you. I graduated from a "super non-target" or whatever the f***, and I will respond to anyone who seems genuine, "target or non-target". I find that most of the low effort outreach comes from non-targets, and I go out of my way to speak to them and be helpful - like I wish someone did for me.
You sound like a putrid, ripened, ass.
Had a few straight up spam my work email multiple times a week
Why the fuck do you care so much? Always treat people the way you would want to be treated. Why is this so difficult for bankers?
This is beyond fucking pathetic. You guys are so autistic.
It's like you're making two different points.
Paragraph 1 and 2: Target kids don't reach out to me! I will never respond
Paragraph 3: Ok yes maybe I will respond if it's a well-written message
You've completely negated your first two paragraphs with the third????
Why are non-target guys so sensitive
Send him a ChatGPT link and say this will help with all your questions. Have a good holiday.
This whole target / non-target thing is a bit much. I thought it was just playful banter online but during a super day a VP looked me dead in the eye and said that they don't discount my background just because of my school... A top 30 semi-target.
Personally, I don't care where people went to college, and I have no chip on my shoulder about where I went. Just treat others solely based on their actions on the job, simple as that.
Not really. Half of the top 30s are semi-targets/ non-targets. Semi target t30s- Emory, Vanderbilt, UCLA, USC, UNC, CMU, UVA, Rice, WashU, Hopkins, northwestern
non-target- wake forest, UF, Caltech, tufts, Georgia tech, rochester
1) so you're more willing to spend your time on a kid that didn't manage to get into a top school than somebody that did? seems logical.
2) so you only care about people who have connections? you don't care about hard-working smart people coming from other backgrounds?
3) they're interested in MS and saw you work there. what else you need? do you want to read long emails instead of normal straightforward ones? this industry requires referrals, even for top students from top schools, so they have to reach out to you. if they didn't have to, they wouldn't.
it's great that you're just an An1 and not an MD, cause otherwise your business would go under cause you would only hire people from your small school in small town instead of top talents from Stanford/Wharton/Brown, just because you have more in common with them. this mindset is why we have these silly diversity initiatives. cause some dense people like you can't think rationally and prefer to hire somebody like them instead of somebody who deserves the seat.
Buddy if you read the post I'm a 1st year associate. Just my title is wrong. Perhaps you're too dense to just read the words on the post? Tough.
How does it change anything, pal?
Congrats on brown
I just took it from his post.
I hate to break it to you, but as someone who worked in banking, Ivy League grads are not top talent. Most of them enter banking with zero finance, accounting, excel and PowerPoint background and have a difficult time catching up.
If a target school kid reached out to me, I would still be helpful and respond to them. I would just inform them of the realities of banking so they know what they are getting themselves into.
we're talking about 19yo students, right? that's who's applying for SAs and is networking. what experience do you expect them to have with finance, accounting, excel, PPT? do non-target 19yo sophomores know finance, acc, excel, ppt?
they equally are so insecure and sensitive they don't function well up the hierarchy
Graduated from HYP, did my time in banking, and I fully agree. It's shameful that someone so superior to you (not non-targets, just you) reached out to you specifically for help.
I hope you realize that all those feelings of insecurity you have are not because of some perceived difference in school value, but because you, and you specifically, are inferior :)
haha i actually kinda agree on this. nice take
Bro has beef with target kids
Lmfao pay it forward man…. This seems like a non-issue to me
We need to bring back bullying
Kids who have been losers their whole life get one IB break and suddenly think they are a winner at a beauty pageant
also you wrote an entire essay when the kid wrote you a line lol
Some very high levels of NaCl in this thread. I'm enjoying it.
I agree with elements of the writer's take, but the ongoing saltiness in the thread would indicate it's far less about the outreach and far more about general bitterness than target school kids have an easier path to jobs non-targets students want, relatively.
I went to non-target, due to slacking / laziness in high school, and had to grind to get into even a halfway decent MM firm. Is there some lingering bitterness, that's really more jealousy and/or regret that I didn't just work harder in high school? Sure. But shouldn't flip my world upside down if a target kid reaches out to me and I don't like his approach.
"A simple no would suffice" is surely applicable, haha.
Did you really use "NaCL"? Now we know who's peddling drugs to TD Securities analysts
Couple of thoughts on this coming from a non-target kid (a decent amount of alumni in IB though - many did an MBA at a different school - but by no means a target school at all) who did extensive networking for SA and FT roles.
- When I was networking, I very rarely if ever cold reached out to IBers who weren't alumni of my college or HS (only 2 from my HS). However, I spoke to many bankers who were NOT alumni by asking alumni (while on the phone with them) if there is anyone they would be willing to connect me within their group/other groups. I think this is the best way to go about speaking with people that are not alumni/people you have no connection to. If you attended a "target" school, this should be relatively easy to find at least one person from your school to talk with you. There were a couple banks where I talked with one alumni and 5+ non-alumni via reference from alumni and other newly formed non-alumni connections. (Side note: please do not email blast an entire analyst group at the exact same time - people will be less likely to network with you since we are all sitting arms length apart in the office and will say "yo did this [insert school] kid just hit you up too?")
- In defense of the target kids out there - I have heard one perspective that at times it might be difficult to get responses as a "target" kid because the target analysts/assoc are getting inundated with constant emails from their school, so some kids get passed over or the target analysts get burnt out from the constant networking calls. Part of this might be because of the way you are reaching out (i.e. unprofessional, bad resume, etc.). If you aren't getting passed on to talk with other bankers at the firm when you do get on the phone with someone, you are most likely 1. not explicitly asking to be connected/intro'd to others or 2. you aren't coming across as someone they would want to pass along to a colleague
- I personally do not like LinkedIn messages to network, but I think they are okay if it's decently written. I agree with OP, I would most likely not respond to that message. I am much more likely to talk to someone who didn't attend my school if they take the time to figure out the company email format, and send an email with a resume attached. However, I will always talk with a student from my college, regardless of how they reach out.
- My observation is that non-target vs target plays a bigger role in getting into the interview room (much easier to get to the interview room as a target, obv). Once you have made it to the interview room, the playing field is much more level (although I do think non-targets get grilled a bit harder on technicals, no explicit proof of this yet).
OP Here - thank you for agreeing with what I was trying to get across before the thread blew up
I think OP got rejected from all the targets and still hasn't gotten over it
Totally agree, here. As a student at a high-level NESCAC (Bowdoin/Amherst/Williams...). It's can be tricky to find people at some firms, but anytime I connect I at least send a personal-sounding InMail. It's one thing to send a well written note mistaking M. Klein for CVP (a mistake most ppl seem to forgive). I think it speaks worse to character expecting someone to just make time for you without putting in any effort.
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