Got placed in the ECM group for my IB SA 2023. I’m very disappointed and worried since my goal is PE. I was hoping to be in M&A or financial sponsors. Will it be hard to lateral for FT to a traditional product/coverage group coming from ECM?
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Very rare. Not typical to change groups for full time at all. Especially from a product to coverage group. On top of that, everyone else is thinking it to and it really depends on headcount.
I’d say doing 2 years as analyst then switching is easier.
You know, some people actually want to be product bankers, so no, it's not "everyone" that's looking to go into M&A or coverage. Also, you really can't have IBD w/o the product teams... What exactly are you advising the client on, then if not to direct them to a product offering.... Do you think IPO's come from thin air?
everyone throwing MS but they know it's true, coverage/sector bankers can't do their jobs without the product bankers. and for that matter, without the corporate bankers. the superiority complex of the sector/coverage bankers and M&A hardos is remarkable when ECM/DCM is the most traditional form of investment banking
I would look to recruit FT.
As an ECM analyst from a reputable shop you'll still get PE looks and get a chance to interview, so don't perseverate over it too much.
That being said, internally lateraling is tough and its certainly some degree of hinderance to be in ECM.
Which pe funds are interviewing ECM analysts?
The same ones hiring 22 year olds with 0 live deal experience 4 months after hitting the desk…
none
ECM does not usually place into PE as you won't get modeling or deal reps.
Unfortunate and I'd agree you should lateral for FT if you want to do PE. Start networking or re-networking around week 3 or 4 of your internship. People won't hold it against you too much since a lot of the SA placement process is based on luck, but be able to talk about what you did and why you want coverage (i.e. not just "for PE")
Yes it is real IB, don't let anyone make you think otherwise.
At MS none of the capital markets groups are considered IB. Not sure why there’s such a big split. Think BAML does it too (ie they recruit through totally separate divisions)
which bank is this? I'm assuming it's a JPM/UBS/DB/Barcap type bank because most of the other banks CS/MS/GS/BAML split their IB and cap markets team which means you'll only have offer to one of the areas.
Like you, I was very disappointed when I was placed in ECM but during my internship I realized everyone on the team had a great lifestyle. Ended up accepting my FT offer and going back to the group and eventually lateraled (staying within ECM). My team had a nice laugh when we realized our bonuses were the same as coverage and worked 25% less.
A couple of my peers ended up moving internally to coverage and some lateraled after a year or 2 so it’s certainly an option.
There are no exit opps but you get paid pretty much the same as coverage bankers while working significantly fewer hours. Would encourage you to have an open mind, smile, and go get coffee with different groups and switch for full time. Whatever you do, do not tell the ecm team they weren’t your top choice or that you don’t like them because any other team will ask if you’re on track for an offer and if they say no, the coverage/M&A group won’t give you one.
If you want something more technical and are at top BB, try to be placed in the converts/equity linked team if it’s an option.
Going to plug for ECM here, very well said.
I spent some time in an equity linked / converts team, was a lot of fun. Bit more technical than vanilla ECM and just generally interesting stuff.
Intern at my bank just did it - unsure how she did it though
Citi?
I know exactly who you’re talking about lol. I know that person firsthand.
haha I plead the fifth..
Citi is definitely the BB most open to internal laterals. Don't think this is an easy move at most other BBs
This is true!! I know of many people who interned in one area who then got another internship in another (CCB to IB or Structured Finance to CM).
No.
/thread
Even the gs cov groups aren’t working at
…m&a or bust
Not true…Investment Banking has two primary services: M&A and Capital Raising
it was clearly a joke buddy
Yes ECM is real investment banking. You’re doing IPOs. Don’t let anyone tell you in here that capital markets is not investment banking. It’s what investment banking originally was. This is coming from a product analyst.
To get to PE, you'll likely need to spend time in M&A or coverage. Don't fixate much on whether your bank 'allows transfers' because that's a distinction without a difference. Even banks that 'allow' it will make you interview and you'll have to do roughly as well as an outsider who would've landed that job; you won't get much of a leg up for having an offer from their ECM group.
And then the banks that 'don't allow' internal transfers . . all they're really saying is you have the same shot for FT that any outsider does. If the M&A/Coverage groups are recruiting for FT then you just get to know the folks in those groups and at some point (after you get your offer) you talk to recruiting and the recruiter will sort of manage the situation so that you can interview with M&A/Coverage and not have to worry about offending anyone in ECM.
All a long-winded way of saying, you should expect to be talking to all the banks after the summer. Most important thing will be getting the offer from ECM because you'll be a lot better positioned in the FT interviews.
This is just flat out untrue
Jeez man I only said likely. Anyways didn't mean to offend.
In any event, not sure where the disconnect is. Maybe it’s that I was intending to refer more to the more traditional coveted PE roles, and I didn't specify that. I didn't think I had to, because whenever the conversation is about "breaking in to PE" it's usually implied that we're talking about the standard highly competitive IB > PE annual Hunger Games process with the same firms everyone knows and the same headhunters and all that jazz. I figured it was safe to assume I didn't mean every job ever that might be called PE.
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