Don’t know where MS employees are getting this false sense of superiority. JPM has been out preforming MS for years across products. Time to update the narrative for what is actually happening.
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outperforming as a whole but not on a per capita basis because MS is a smaller firm in terms of headcount. Also shareholder returns don’t lie being that dimon and gorman care so much about them. JPM leads in DCM/LevFin due to their ability to leverage balance sheet, but ECM/M&A are MS for sure.
Accurate, I agree with this. Just finished recruiting for both JP and MS and felt people from MS were way more impressive- I hope I get the offer lol
I was not as impressed with MS as much as JPM when I recruited. Glad I went JPM. They seem to have all of the momentum.
Any proof about size? Or is this all anecdotal? Can’t imagine there being large difference in headcount. Your profile says you’re still an intern. Factually speaking how exactly would you know?
Due to the fact I’m in intern at one of the two. Additionally it is well known MS is a smaller firm head count wise than JPM. Specifically you see a big difference in capital markets IB groups (ECM/DCM/LevFin) where MS runs super lean compared to JPM.
To say MS wins out in M&A is completely false. If we are bringing a legitmate and scientific approach to this discussion, look at their 2021 10-Ks. Here is how they shake out across advisory, equity and fixed income fees generated.
Advisory -
JP Morgan: $4.4 billion
Morgan Stanley: $3.5 billion
Fixed Income -
JP Morgan: $5.0 billion
Morgan Stanley: $2.4 billion
Equity -
JP Morgan: $4.0 billion
Morgan Stanley: $4.4 billion
Summary - the only product Morgan Stanley beat out out JPM on was equities. JP generated higher fees for Advisory (M&A) and Fixed Income.
how about revenue per capita from those groups?
Nice. Very impressive. Let's see Paul Allen's fees.
- Angry JPM b school associate that struck out at GS/MS and developed an inferiority complex
I think his point is the false sense of superiority from MS employees
Is it false tho??
Yeah man, you guys are so great doing less M&A than us even with 2x the bankers and 20x the balance sheet
xx
and how many have you lost?
So cringe.
MS does not generate more fees in M&A than JPM. That statement is completely false. Cracked open their 2021 10-Ks. Here is how they shake out across advisory, equity and fixed income fees generated.
Advisory -
JP Morgan: $4.4 billion
Morgan Stanley: $3.5 billion
Fixed Income -
JP Morgan: $5.0 billion
Morgan Stanley: $2.4 billion
Equity -
JP Morgan: $4.0 billion
Morgan Stanley: $4.4 billion
Summary - the only product Morgan Stanley beat out out JPM on was equities. JP generated higher fees for Advisory (M&A) and Fixed Income.
.
Nobody gives a SHIT about DCM buddy it’s all about M&A experience. Congrats on your Lev fin offer tho MBA associate.
The only MDs that matter at JP Morgan are the guys signing checks like Barry Bergman.
Where are all of these interns getting all of their insights on headcount and product performance at these firms? That one WSO thread posted in 2010? Corny
I'm the only intern who has posted thus far and have gotten my information from intern email lists and standing up from my desk and utilizing my god given eyes. It isn't that hard to get a rough estimate of broad IB head count in NA at these firms. Also just crack open the recent earnings reports from MS and JPM to see product performance (not to mention I’ve spoken to bankers having gone through the recruiting process at each firm). Not sure why you wouldn’t roughly know what each firm is good at as an associate? MBA associate?
So you are working at both firms at once and that gives you insight into each of their headcounts? Idk doesn't really make any sense. I think you can only deduce headcount from the firm you work at.
Also, I just cracked open their 2021 10-Ks. Here is how they shake out across advisory, equity and fixed income fees generated.
Advisory -
JP Morgan: $4.4 billion
Morgan Stanley: $3.5 billion
Fixed Income -
JP Morgan: $5.0 billion
Morgan Stanley: $2.4 billion
Equity -
JP Morgan: $4.0 billion
Morgan Stanley: $4.4 billion
Summary - the only product Morgan Stanley beat out out JPM on was equities. JP generated higher fees for Advisory (M&A) and Fixed Income.
JP’s new HQ is going to be one the tallest buildings in Manhattan. Doesn’t get more prestigious than that.
Do people who actually work at these firms care? Nobody I personally know in banking gives af, and yes, it includes people at Centerview and Evercore
no
The only way to overcome small d*ck energy is apparently to come on an anonymous forum and post a point-by-point analysis of why your bank is better than other banks.
This is a very privileged take. #smalldicklivesmatter
MS Media and Telecom in NY destroys JP Morgan as a firm.
I'd rather be in that group than any at JP Morgan.
Thus MS is better than JP Morgan for me.
JP Morgan is full of weirdos who act like its a Big 4 firm.
Lmao what? I'm pretty sure JPM Media & Comms has led the space something like 5 of the last 6 years...and per the current sector ranking, JPM M&C leads at 1.88bn. Wasn't MS not even on Discovery/Warner or Disney/Fox? Totally insane assertion when it doesn't even look like MS M&C beats JPM's M&C lol
This is so true. MS has missed out on a lot of big ticket M&C deals while JP has been present. Don’t know where this clown is getting this info from but it’s always stale and blatantly not true.
Listen bozo.
Goldman Sachs Lev Fin.
Morgan Stanley M&T.
Lazard Restructuring.
Allen & Company Tech.
The best groups on the street and it's not even close. Dealflow, placement, learning experience.
The rest are just a sad joke. Barclays Power come in close.
This guy is a troll look at his other comments and posts. Never seen so much monkey shit thrown at somebody. Spends way too much time on wso and is probably unemployed
Oh man, you must be looking in the mirror!
Buddy the hedge fund I work at is SICK. Like above anything you could ever dream of!
no no no... I actually have the smallest dick!
I agree. Being in a bank where you know the entire process behind what corporate finance is (hint: it’s not just M&A) it sets you up so much better, like knowing treasury, capital markets, fx hedging, m&a etc.
You get the same high level exposure at MS and JPM. Any in depth analysis will be outsourced to DCM / ECM / LevFin teams in the bank.
Why is this happening? lol
Everyone sincerely participating in this conversation is a complete loser.
Maybe.
But now you're participating too.
Goldman employees reading this thread, seeing verified MS monkeys debate with JPM employees over who's second best:
Goldman employees don't read this dump of a forum. That's why they work at Goldman and not in your mom's basement.
I work at goldman u clown
MS is a bank. I thought it was a frat.
Not after all of the diversity hires
What's a diversity hire? Define.
Yeah, diversity hires really balanced out the nepotism hires, eh?
Is this a serious conversation?
Please share any opportunities. I don’t mind working for either LOL
I don’t work at either of these banks. I’m a fan of the European business model where I work 50 hours a week and make 200k
That's why Europe is failing. Can't work 30 hours a week and expect a 1 hour lunch where you drink orange juice and eat Souvlaki.
Stop expecting a good quality of life if you're in IB. It doesn't happen. Or in any serious finance job.
THAT IS THE SACRIFICE.
Agreed. Credit Suisse, DB and UBS seem to be constantly outperforming its peers
What jobs in Europe make 200k lol
Wtf is wrong with you
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL you're all such fucking weirdos and dorks
God this horrible thread was actually featured in a wso email
Who cares
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