Most toxic banks and groups (2023 update)?
Not a new topic but would be good to see where things are now.
I was at sweet green the other day and overheard a couple Moelis analysts say "Moelis?…More like MoleASS!" Tells you a little something about the culture I think
RBC Calgary has entered the chat.
Rumor has it, BMO o&g takes the cake
Did they overtake BMO M&M?
Totally wrong -- and I can tell you have an old data point because BMO has rebranded their O&G division to simply "Energy" and "Energy Transition" -- from what I've heard, they're pitching a lot more now because they've gone woke with Radicle and notably weren't on the Baytex/Ranger Oil deal. Calgary IB is fucked, but by no means does BMO 'take the cake' on RBC for toxicity.
does anyone know if this has changed over recent months?
Also curious, everyone I know there is super down to earth but have heard horror stories.
Moelis is the obvious answer. Have heard rough things about evercore across m&a in general from SAs I knew.
Top tier exits out of Evercore but Tech, Media, Industrials and IUR notoriously toxic and grindy.
Seconded on EVR industrials. Definitely old school wall street vibes. Not for everyone
idk if it's that obvious. again, need to draw a line between sweaty and toxic. Sweaty = long hours, toxic = MD calling you an asshole in front of whole floor, VP publicly blaming you for mistakes etc. There's obviously some overlap, ie 'D made me work until 4am this entire week for a pitch that isn't until next month' kind of thing but not always 1:1 overlap.
Fair and agree. Just have seen the impact of 2 years at Moelis with peers/older mentors and it takes a serious toll compared to other firms. Would classify that more as sweaty I guess. Evercore would lump more into toxic.
Yeah… Moelis is still one of my top choices, iron sharpens iron. I’d rather go through the meat grinder and come out stronger and more capable than have a softer culture. Maybe it’s the athlete in me…
I don't get where the whole "Moelis culture is miles better these days" schtick came from. Yeah culture has definitely softened compared to 3-4 years ago, but Moelis NY is still one of the rougher places. Culture varies by group, but toxic mid-level people and seniors yelling at analysts is definitely still more prevalent at Moelis NY than it is street-wide.
Agreed from an ex-Moelis analyst - firm leadership has somewhat cracked down on such behavior but it's certainly still prevalent at least in the NY office.
I've heard the culture in LA has toned down quite a bit but I guess not NY.
I mean has to be Jefferies no?
at equinox I heard a guy with a jefferies vest say "Jefferies? More like ASSfries" so very possible
Thread got interesting
MS M&A
All BB M&A groups have terrible culture and WLB. JPM M&A and BofA M&A I know forsure
Not true about BofA M&A. Culture there is actually pretty good. I work at BofA and have a few buddies in M&A.
JPM M&A isn't that bad. Have a friend who works there and his WLB is better than mine, IMO and I'm in MM
Care to elaborate?
BMO Metals & Mining Toronto
That's just all mining groups in Toronto dude. They're all sweat but not necessarily toxic. I've heard BMO isn't really that toxic anymore - there's another Big 5 mining group that I've heard has shittier culture...
Not sure. My info is as of 2019/2020 when my roommate was working on the Newmont-Goldcorp merger. Was consistently sleeping under his desk and apparently there's an associate who walks around at night and posts a sticky note with profanities on it on the computers of analysts not at their desk
M&M is almost like it's own global boutique / version of Moelis within BMO
BMO Metals & Mining used to have this 5 foot 2 VP/D (he's MD now) who called Analysts' office phones Saturday mornings to ensure they were present in the office
lots of other stories I remember but can't be bothered to elaborate lol
Lool this is the Jewish guy. I've heard of a few stories about this guy. BMO M&M should have a thread of its own
This is hilarious - please give more of what you've heard
at Tim Horton’s I heard a couple of first year analysts say “BMO Harris more like BMO HarASS” so very possible
This aged well
Jpm healthcare
Lies
JPM HC SF is heaven from what I hear
.
Friend of a friend told me some horror stories about that group. They had an associate literally pass out in the office and it’s being swept under the rug. She passed out in December, was taken to the hospital and now nobody knows where she is and leadership said “out of respect for her family” they don’t want to say anything about her condition. I’m sure there was some underlying issue but stress and lack of sleep make any health condition worse and this happened to a senior associate who was being promoted to VP a month later. Tone did not change after this nobody even said hey guys take care of yourselves and push back on unecesary work. Just acted like it never happened. This is the worst example but many other examples of how shitty the culture is.
Healthcare people not taking care of their health or hurting the health of their own people..shame
Barclays Industrials and Tech in 2023?
I was at Blockbuster returning video tapes the other day and overheard a couple Barclays analysts say “Barclays?….. more like BarclASS”. Think that that tells you a little something about the culture
Barclays securitization is the most toxic desk
Nah, know a guy who works there. Long but not toxic
Industrials or Tech? My college roommate is in tech and likes the culture, agrees its not a lifestyle group but exits/dealflow are solid.
Chicago MM perspective here:
On the other hand, these are groups/banks that I hear aren't terrible:
Any insight into the smaller Chicago EB offices (Moelis, Evercore, PWP)?
Moelis is a sweatshop and filled with assholes.
EVR is a sweatshop and filled with valedictorians.
Don't know much about PWP
Blair HC has probably the best culture on the street.
I thought Blair’s culture was really good. What happened
YMMV, but I had a great experience and really enjoyed my time at Solomon. Obviously its still banking, but I found the seniors generally super respectful of weekend time and didn't really see too many late nights. Also, very little pitching. Would highly recommend to anyone interested in MM C&R.
Baird industrials and Blair HC are not toxic by any means whatsoever. Sweaty, yes but not toxic.
HL Chi has gotten better post-COVID in terms of sweat, culture, or both?
Both.
You know anything about Piper industrials?
You know anything about Piper industrials?
Wb William Blair?
lol blair one is 100% inaccurate (source: been at blair for ~2 years)
Any update on Chi Baird Industrials? Has it gotten any better? What type of hours are we talking about -- 2-3am nights?
A recruiter reached out about a lateral opportunity so Im just trying to get as much info as possible.
Most Industrials groups across the street are toxic, as well as every investment bank in Houston
I've heard Houston is so "boom and bust" that everyone is just always afraid of the next layoff. Creates sharp elbows and a lot of knives in backs.
I think most shops that have RX too aren’t so worried about boom and bust, but are definitely sweaty. Friends from boutiques such as Evercore, PJT, Moelis definitely work lots of hours but the cultures don’t seem toxic. Had a buddy at Moelis who I only saw once a quarter cause was always working but said great things about the people there. Had multiple buds at Evercore who were chill with people but the culture was SO sweaty that it became toxic. Almost their entire class shipped out quickly
Most industrials groups tend to lean bro-heavy, but that doesn't mean that they are toxic
Any insights on DB?
In Chi? Supposedly their IND group is pretty good and not shitheads.
How about in NYC?
NYC Industrials and Consumer teams are a mixed bag, but do have some very toxic MDs that you’d really want to avoid
Thanks a lot for the input! Can I ask a follow up question on the deal flow/ exit opps of both?
JPM M&A
Can anyone confirm?
Since when do we confirm what Prospects say?
Anyone know about banks in Charlotte?
William Blair Charlotte is laid-back but cliquey - office is dominated by veterans.
WF is too big to generalize.
Piper Sandler Industrials is sweaty but fratty.
Piper Sandler C&R is sweaty and less fratty.
Jefferies C&R is relatively chill.
Jefferies REGL is toxic.
Jefferies TES is sweaty but decent in terms of culture.
Jefferies ADG is a mixed bag - great culture at the senior level but mixed bag at the mid-level.
What about some of the other MM Charlotte banks like Lazard, Citizens, RJ, and Cannacord Genuity?
I have heard crazy stories about Piper C&R. A good friend of mine pulled an an all-nighter across Christmas Eve and Christmas day on a $10MM EV deal. That's not the fee, that was the EV.
On another note, how is comp in Charlotte? As with COL and taxes IB there seems like a sweet deal
hows jef tech sf
Any insight into KBCM Charlotte? Specifically the fintech group.
Realize this is an old thread but just came across it. Mind saying more about Jefferies REGL?
Controversial opinion but William Blair. Love to talk about how good their “culture” is but it’s putting a bow on a turd.
It’s a complete sweat shop, they just laid off a ton of analysts and has gone from sweaty to unbearable. Everyone working until 3am or later, protected Saturdays basically gone (but still touted as a policy). Bonuses also sucked so not worth it at all. They might be the first back in history to exclusively lay off juniors… deal flow / pitching stays the same without the same juniors to support it.
People are somewhat nice still in terms of “you won’t get screamed at in the bullpen”, but the WLB is terrible and people are so angry about how management keeps flexing “culture” as a selling point without doing anything to actually maintain it.
I was on the subway and heard a William Blair analyst say “William Blair? More like William ASS”
Is Blair still WFH on Mondays and Fridays?
Controversial because it isn’t true. Always group, location, and team dependent for these things, but there are some places where the culture is toxic and it attracts assholes, WB just isn’t one of them.
WB’s Midwest location and status runs a pretty solid screen to stop most the behavior that makes people insufferable. Some groups are sweaty for sure and there are toxic people for sure, but toxic isn’t really something ex-WB people use to describe the whole platform. Have numerous friends that left various groups and consensus is almost always banking sucks, but glad I did it at WB. Doesn’t mean you aren’t having a bad experience, but that’s just not their rep.
Friends don’t let friends work at JPM Houston. GS Houston is also awful.
+1. Every bank in Houston is toxic. So many people move from Houston IB to your classic "sweatshop" groups in NYC and have massive QOL improvements
Jefferies
Nomura Greentech. Barely see friends and family. Lots of pitching and working on deals. Never ending grind.
Mostly pitching. Their dealflow has been mediocre since renewables became hot and BB started building out teams
weird seniors and terrible culture
still number 1 in terms of deals I believe for renewables
Del
Every Latam group, particularly if you're a woman
UBS real estate group
What's wrong with UBS real estate?
high turnover amongst the analyst and associates, toxic seniors, terrible deal flow, group cannot hold onto to anyone past a 1-2 years (so there are very few VPs and Directors)
ask anyone that left that group (there are many on linkedin)
I was at the Lindt store when I heard a couple of first year analysts go “UBS more like UB-ASS” so very likely
heard horrific things about EVR Houston
Not that I know of
Pls explain😭
can we combine a list of banks and the current type of office space for workers (including analysts, excluding the trading floor)? I got the following:
JPM: Hotdesking in an open space. people always stealing seats. hard to book seats. (new york office)
Credit Suisse: Still has cubicles for analysts and up. more senior ones get the office. (new york office)
Maybe it's team-dependent, but my team at JPM has assigned seats and no "hotdesking" or stealing seats...
no one remembers piper sweatier than ever?
Thank god I got another offer… so much insecurity
Insights on Jeff tech NY and SF?
JEF Tech NY is an extremely chill group. People wfh all the time. Definitely one of the chiller groups on the street
any insight on jef tech sf?
RBC CALGARY FOR THE WIN
Just finished recruiting for the The Bank of Your Mom
oh hello there
You guys do anything more than HC ECM deals / has that changed since 2019 / 2020?
Serious question.
I heard TERRIBLE things from a mutual about Cantor. Things like VPs leaving the office then coming back at 11:00PM - Midnight to take notes on what Analysts/Associates are there. Has it improved at all since pre-covid?
nope lol. the senior bankers are an all star game of cartoonishly difficult personalities.
cantor hc would belong itt except that it doesnt deserve to be ranked alongside places like moelis, regardless of the context
JPM Houston
Jefferies HC - place is the worst
Curious - more details?
This is false from what I’ve heard, it’s a lot chiller. Can you give more details?
BMO is toxic, rotten, and racist
Which group?
False
Comment aged like fine wine
JEF energy
Jefferies Houston is 100% a sweatshop but not even close to even being the most toxic bank in Houston
Jefferies Houston is 100% sweaty but not even close to even being the most toxic bank in Houston
What’s consider sweaty in today’s standard? I’m required to be in the office 4 days a week. Usually work from 9:30am - 2:00am. One protected weekend a month but no guarantee, you could be working anyway. Weekends are usually 11:00am - 10/11pm. Is this consider sweaty?
yes absolutely lol. you dont have time to do simple things like buy groceries or do laundry.
You work 100+ hours a week and you ask if that is sweaty. You are a slave bro.
Well, I usually roll out of bed at 9, since I will be working late and head into the office at 11:00 -11:30. There's usually good 45min - 1 hour break in the middle of the day for lunch. And, 1 hour for dinner and maybe 30-45min late night waiting for comments. So, technically I'm doing 80-90 hours max. Unless people usually count dinner and lunch into working hours.
What bank
I think this is Wells Fargo
Surprised not to see any GS groups
…Big Brother is watching
toxic reputation
I seem to always hear people complaining about industrials for some reason.
Industrials big and diverse and lots of sponsor activity so really every bank
Any thoughts on Barclays NY?
Chemicals
BGL?
Guggenheim NYC Tech, healthcare services and industrials are pretty bad.
Source? Would love more details
Source? Would love more details
Wheres FTP stand
Are all groups at Rothschild NYC generally good?
Well, I'd say the fact that the conversation was happening during Sweetgreen's open hours is telling in itself.
Sounds like things have improved.
The other night I was at Keens for a deal close dinner and overheard a VP from United Bank of Asscheeks say "United Bank of Asscheeks? More like United Bank of Credit Suisse" and I thought that was fucked up
heard jefferies houston is an absolute 1st class trip to nonconsensual gorilla poundtown like real real non consensual
Just had my first round with the group--let's grind
Blair Boston.
Mind elaborating? Knew Blair's reputation had gone downhill after the layoffs but thought Boston groups were generally more chill than NYC ones.
Boston tech has a few seniors that are hard to deal with. Nyc is a pretty new office for coverage.
Moelis Dubai
Huge glaring omission so far is Bank of America… let us change that.
Equity Capital Markets is led by a bleached, hair-plugged junkie that flirts with every woman on the floor regardless of age (am a recipient of advances). I am shocked a legitimate human resource complaint has yet to be logged, am guilty of remaining complicit. Have interacted with countless senior bankers across the street that mention this individual and claim to have crazy stories. Would enjoy hearing anonymous opinions or stories.
Aside from ECM, have heard Houston and Chicago offices are sweaty (oil, gas and industrials).
Let us hear more from BofA!!!!!!
lol Jim Cooney?
If BofA Houston is bad JPM Houston is out of the world…
Culpa tempora aut sit totam est. Non consectetur ratione quaerat voluptatum asperiores. Qui ut alias veritatis quod non. Aliquam est corporis consequatur aut.
Nihil odio aut quibusdam dicta. Quidem natus quo nesciunt. Labore explicabo asperiores fuga sit et fuga.
Quae harum blanditiis et corporis eos cum. Voluptas explicabo eum aut molestiae eaque id tempora. Veniam et natus dignissimos debitis rem.
Ut aut doloremque minus vel voluptatum. Temporibus dolor delectus omnis eum magni odio. Et voluptatem quo officiis consequatur ratione id dignissimos autem.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Inventore sunt aut saepe reiciendis ipsa eos consequatur. Vel eaque similique neque ut laborum atque id. Voluptatem omnis eos consequuntur dolor. Et esse ut ea exercitationem est.
Et id maxime laborum id dolor. Nihil possimus inventore aperiam nam asperiores molestias et quidem. Laboriosam aut minus optio laudantium quae quia.
Rerum sed iusto iste. Eum earum vero occaecati quo nam. Excepturi est aut illo dolores. Ratione ipsa sit molestias minima rerum voluptatem expedita. Voluptatem aut ipsa laborum voluptates tempore. Aliquid voluptatum quibusdam sint et eos.
Quia cumque eveniet reiciendis similique sed dolorem soluta. Hic itaque enim cupiditate voluptate. Qui veniam quam tempora et. Velit excepturi soluta dolor sed soluta dolorem sed. Maxime asperiores sed dicta. Placeat rerum dolorem id id voluptatum quis culpa.
Qui quia sed aut consequatur aperiam. Iusto et totam quasi est voluptatem nam. Eius dolorum consequuntur voluptas ipsa quia et. Maiores beatae quaerat laboriosam. Velit aliquam nihil ex ad. Enim non cum optio.
Nulla voluptates sunt eius quidem. Eum et ab reprehenderit explicabo totam. Tempore labore temporibus ut quos et commodi in.
Esse fugiat dolorum tempore et ea veniam placeat. Dolores qui nihil sed rerum omnis. Soluta aut expedita iusto. Rem quis expedita molestias quis placeat est fugit.
Placeat voluptas sit in rerum. Labore aliquid vero ut quia sit quae repudiandae. Earum nemo assumenda quam. Ipsa nihil aspernatur qui eum. Molestiae ducimus nesciunt tempore eum et enim rem. Consequuntur voluptas suscipit aut asperiores eum magnam hic. Amet qui rerum ratione et.
Officia labore voluptas beatae consequuntur nihil. Harum laudantium sed eaque explicabo iure. Explicabo consequatur veniam quod praesentium. Placeat ad ipsum ad consectetur reprehenderit aperiam aut.
Culpa quia porro quisquam maxime excepturi eaque mollitia ducimus. Sint fugiat explicabo autem officia aliquam id animi. Sed provident sapiente odit asperiores reprehenderit. Dolorum totam veniam perferendis repellat doloribus. Doloribus placeat a nobis non sint ut. Quia reiciendis placeat officia nisi mollitia magni aliquid. Architecto fugiat eos quod et eos magni.
Sit inventore qui nemo eligendi. Ex tenetur eveniet velit vitae sit dolorem. Ratione quaerat sequi alias ut quae doloremque occaecati.
Et est incidunt reiciendis qui magni vel dignissimos doloremque. Sunt voluptatem facere quis est doloremque repudiandae dignissimos non. Voluptatum unde autem ad accusamus dolores expedita. Repellendus voluptas unde inventore natus sed.
Provident ad enim nobis quisquam optio dolor laudantium et. Laboriosam et id delectus ex explicabo magnam. At quam deserunt quaerat. Sed fugiat aspernatur provident aliquam unde nam perspiciatis.
Nihil sunt voluptatum consequatur voluptatem. Ducimus ipsa ut ut qui unde. Sit ducimus facere vero voluptatem voluptatem aliquam.
Sit repellendus consectetur consequatur et possimus. Rerum quis doloremque nostrum. Iste ratione qui ab odit est et velit iste. At id qui animi ducimus sint reprehenderit autem. Occaecati placeat et dicta voluptatem ea nesciunt.
Nemo explicabo autem cumque fugit. Officiis assumenda tenetur eos quia aut.
Doloremque voluptas maiores repudiandae eius nostrum pariatur. In inventore delectus commodi esse aspernatur consequatur quia. Aut voluptas nam non et inventore.
Exercitationem ut non maiores eveniet. Commodi et in placeat cum nihil. Pariatur exercitationem delectus ad sit odio. Quos possimus facilis eius numquam atque sed.
Dolore quae eveniet adipisci qui numquam numquam. Et culpa quos ea exercitationem. Laborum ad numquam aspernatur porro sit asperiores est. Expedita nemo aliquam animi.
Inventore labore est dicta aut. Sint unde quam molestiae excepturi dignissimos. Quo et suscipit ex.