New Grads in M&A - Fearful of Job Loss?
Dear all
For those of us starting in IB in 2012, who is getting more than a tad nervous about the prospect of being sacked before they've even started (or soon thereafter)?
I heard of many people who at the start of 2008 (having been hired in April 2007) to not bother coming in because they are now not needed. How are people feeling about prospects right now? Should I rightly be worried?
I think there's good reason to be nervous.
I've seen two summer offers rescinded relatively recently, meaning the guys lost out on pretty much all good OCR
This is probably an ignorant question, but is there really that huge of a concern about soon-to-be first-year analysts unless one blatantly lied about something? I know most firms are going through their own versions of downsizing, but I was under the assumption that it applied to S&T divisions of a bank and not IBD itself. I understand analysts aren't really a "revenue-generating" position, but are analyst spots really that big of a target when it comes to eliminating positions?
@fulltimefollies If you can say, what were the circumstances of those guys?
Yep...getting worried
i wouldn't worry on the advisory side.
Not worried in the slightest => Tech advisory baby, oh yeah!
It was the same firm for both guys. Small but relatively well known firm decided to cut the number of new hires is pretty much all I know. Not too close with either of them.
definite cutbacks in hiring on the S&T side; i don't see why it would not extend to IBD.
dude you're also worried about dinner on seamless next yr. pls take it easy and enjoy your freakin senior yr. NO point worrying till they actually tell you something.
Can't be as bad as CS 2008!
After 3 weeks on their new desks all fresh, wide eyed, ready to work grads were fired.
The same vintage of UBS grads were let go after a year on the job.
Did they get payouts though?
What area of IB would get hit with the worst cuts? I know restructuring tends to do well but what areas tend to do the worst? My guess would be financial sponsors, lev fin and FIG but I have no experience to back that up.
Stop worrying about things you can't control & start focusing on the things you can control. Keep performing and keep your resume tight, which is what you should be doing anyways...
I think Bank of America told large swaths of folks in 2007 that they got a year of free salary and didn't need to bother showing up to work.
This is not a year for completely sluffing on your GPA. Unlike HS, college follows you for several more years- technically decades, but those grades are fairly important for four or five more years if you ever find yourself on the job market.
market had it's largest gain since March 2009 today. I'd say you're fine for a couple more years
lol
^^^ haha, good joke.
Personally, people who are in the "hired" but not yet working phase are easy to cut. They have some money invested in your hire but its not a great deal and there is little headache from cutting these people. Newly working analysts have less of a chance of getting axed as they now pose a greter headache but are low on the wage totempole.
I know that wont ease your nerves but thats the way it is.
Perhaps "easier" logistically but the cost savings are minute and it would ruin the bank's rep for future recruiting purposes.
Calm your asses down. This is a (recruiting) bull market compared to 2008.
Arr they legally obliged to pay me out something? I mean, would it not be unlawful dismissal if they just sacked me?
However, banks also have to consider their relationships with schools. Unless they are experiencing real hardship, I think banks will be hesitant to rescind offers. Once they prove to be untrustworthy, they will have trouble recruiting top talent for years.
I wasn't talking about it from that stand point. I should have said that is the general way that most businesses approch the situation. It is easier to recind an offer to someone then it is to fire current employees.
College hires are generally very safe. Yes, you don't want to piss off schools, and more importantly, the kids going into the programs generally aren't the kind who would wind up unemployed if these banks didn't exist. But crazy stuff does happen. In 2007, one large firm cut all of the kids a check for a years' salary and told them to go work somewhere else (I think this is in Dealbreaker- news came out in the summer 2007). Most of the offers from the capitulated/merged firms were honored in 2008. A number of associates' offers got pulled and some of them have their signing bonuses- which they were required to return- in collections.
banks have shit tons of leverage and students very little.
no1s gna be like " fuck gs they rescinded an offer" lol. plus given the industry is shrinking markets are likely to stay fucked for a while and more and more people want to do m&a banks position will strengthen further
I don't think incoming IB analysts should be worried. An analyst friend of mine put it this way - even if live deals dry up, there will always be enough pitches/presentation work to make analysts necessary. Since analysts are cheap, you should be fine as long as your group didn't overhire because there will always be work to do...
Echoing above posters, I wouldn't worry until you start seeing deep cuts in the VP ranks. By comparison, analysts are cost effective, and almost a necessity to putting together a deal.
By comparison, a VP without his own book is basically going to be first on the chopping block. He costs over 5 times the amount of an analyst, and might not be adding more revenue.
Really interested in this topic - my bank hired a very big 2012 grad class (of which I'm a part). I could start early as I'm free from January onwards, but I was hoping to spend that six months bumming around South America/SE Asia with buddies. Having read some of the comments above, do people think the situation is dire enough for me to give up my dream six month vacation and start working in January/February in order to establish myself in the bank?
An alternative would be to cut that vacation in half (start 3 months early, which would be enough time to have a blast and you would get 3 months of exp. before training). I started early, and it ended up working out well, as I have closed advisory transactions prior to the buyside recruiting process which is kicking into gear now. You will get an opportunity to have more resume experience than your analyst counterparts (the downside is that you have to tack on time to your analyst stint). 6 months is also a long time to be doing nothing (by this I mean traveling and partying). Granted, your vacation sounds sick (pretty jealous as I would have loved to have done that), but you may get bored quicker than you think. I took a 3 month cross country road trip / ski trip before starting my job and I found it to be about the perfect amount of time to decompress and have fun before starting.
There was a rumor of a large Euro bank near failure yesterday. That would be a game changer.
tradingevents.blogspot.com
How often did this actually happen in 08? Are there really no legal ramifications for banks rescinding offers? Has it started to happen this Fall?
From what I've seen, when dealing with big companies, schools tend to act like whores, so I wouldn't expect the big banks to be very concerned about pissing them off.
If you signed to Citi, GS,CS, or UBS i would be sweating balls
Curious why you would say CS.
CS and UBS are at a slight disadvantage due to the fact they are domiciled in Switzerland and the Swiss government is forcing their banks to overcapitalize relative to their American peers. This is achieved in part by cutting risky assets, such as scaling back the investment bank.
Why GS?
http://news.efinancialcareers.se/newsandviews_item/newsItemId-36250
www.tradingevents.blogspot.com/
Yeah what about the English banks. They don't seem to be fareing too well. I would be nervous for those grads as well
What about DB?
Did you send your application directly to Josef Ackermann?
http://tiny.cc/uud5h
The new top tier, according to Wright, includes Deutsche and JPMorgan, which are, “weathering the storm,” and seizing market share.
from http://news.efinancialcareers.se/newsandviews_item/newsItemId-36250
Of course if the eurozone dies a slow and agonizing death, all bets are off.
load of crap
DB has shitty deal flow. The M&A analyst leave at 8pm M-F.
I have 2 good friends at DB. That's not true at all.
Or go Boutique M&A, don't worry about losing your job =)
I don't like the comments of Mervyn King this week; this makes me nervous
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/dec/01/mervyn-king-warns-uk-ban…
I'll be surprised if CS hasn't rescinded some associate offers. Spoke with a VP about a month ago.. He said they signed on way more associates than they need for 2012
Not good!
Has anyone been delayed/laid off yet before their commencement dates?
I am worried about the same thing.
I was wondering if there is anything you can do to at least stay on the company's list? Like emailing/calling the people who interviewed/hired you? Asking some questions once in a while, just to show your enthusiasm?
I know this sounds stupid but I was just wondering in general if people talk to their future employers at all during this 8-month period.
Jw, is Nomura IBD really shutting down in North America?
WTF. is this for real?? I thought Nomura was a big player in WS. one of my buddies accepted an offer from them... if that is the case, my buddy is fucked.
lol
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