NYC pay transparency law is huge
Did a quick search of some random companies' career pages. Below are some of the ones I found with postings in NY that now have base salary shown:
BB IB all 110k base obviously
Citadel Equities fundamental associate (out of undergrad) 110-125k
Point72 Academy new grad investment analyst base 125k
Bridgewater portfolio associate total comp 150-250k
Apollo PE associate base 150-175k
Evercore associate base 185k
Jane Street new grad trader base 300k
Two Sigma SWE base 160-300k
Two Sigma new grad quant research base $160k
Citadel quant research base 225-275k
Citadel quant trading base 175-275k
Google site reliability new grad SWE base 106-159k
Bloomberg new grad SWE base 155k
Obviously doesn't show the full picture since these are just base, but nice to finally have transparent, accurate figures
Jane street…
wow... is the demographic for those grad quant positions (i.e. JS/Two Sigma/Citadel) undergrads or masters/phds
Mostly undergrad or undergrad programs with concurrent masters
'quant' aka adding and multiplying in python
pays 300k and needs a phd when a fifth grader could do the same job LOL
Yeah Jane Street, who obviously isn’t successful at all in what they do, is so dumb that they overpay people by $300k (well maybe like $270k as you’d still have to pay the 5th grader something). Isn’t that unbelievable? I do that too. At my HF, even though I could pay people $50k and pocket much more of the profits myself, I overpay people because it’s just pretty cool to do that nowadays. It’s like a neat way to show off that I don’t need the money.
For working in finance (guessing you do?) you are struggling with a few simple concepts (supply and demand being a key one).
Yep it's legitimately one of the big drivers of inflation rn. Quants and SWEs getting paid six figures to sit on their ass and type code that creates no social value. It's a leading indicator that there's too much money in the system and allocators don't know what to do with it. Fed needs to tighten the fuck up.
You mad bro?
Jane Street is the End All Be All shop for quants. I'm considered to be a math wiz (objective metric is how well you did on the Putnam and I came in top 25%). I got cut at 2nd round at JS.
Friend of mine was like in the top 10% got cut at round 3 for JS.
Another friend came in at top 2.5% and he now works at JS.
There are like 4-5 rounds depending on who you are. SBF worked at JS too.
I have a fucking pocket calculator on my phone, where do you think it would place in the Putnam?
that is super impressive you are that good at math. But realistically, do you think the value proposition of hiring these quants at 600k is value add? I am not in the space so defer to you.
Go get a 300k base Jane Street QT offer then. Should be pretty easy right
Ok dude...
What's stopping you from launching your own quant fund then if it's that easy? Lol
You sound like the kind of guy who tries to pick up girls with your job title.
Can we all acknowledge that every single comment in this thread ranging from "Associate 2 in PE - LBOs" to the replying "Investment Manager in HF - Other" is from a singular insecure techcel trying to "organically" initiate a conversation about tech comp that no one asked for? Thanks.
Bro, everyone knows that whatever we do, whether it is PE or ECM, it is not rocket science. Come on, doing business due diligence on a company while we know f*ck all about the industry? Or telling lenders to accept a lower margin on leveraged loans? Keep telling jokes to yourself man.
Wouldn't be surprised if a South Korean 5th grader could do what US quants do.
US math rankings are abysmal globally: https://www.infoplease.com/us/education/international-comparison-math-r….
Because of this though, it's just supply and demand at work. Weak math talent in the US means anyone who is competent at math will get paid very well.
One of the biggest moron takes I’ve ever seen on this website.
Rough look for IB. I bet that pay doesnt even compare well at all when you do the math for hourly rate
Of course it doesn’t. But if you say anything positive about quant/swe vs IB on this forum you get 999 monkey shits thrown at you.
Crazy right. What some people will do to rationalize the slave-like culture in IB…
That's what I'm saying. This site is an echo chamber, and most people on this site don't/didn't attend HYPSM-type schools where you see your peers work at the countless other jobs offering substantially more pay with much better WLB and benefits. I attended a HYPSM, studied a technical major (e.g., math, CS), and work in BB IB and both my base and total comp are in the bottom ~30% among my peers from college (only consulting makes less). People on this site are probably going to justify it by saying how this is still substantially more than the average college graduate. And sure, this may change a few years down the line, but it also may not. SWE pay progression does plateau, but many people hit L5 (or equivalent) easily within 5-7 years, making $300-600k, and of course quant can make more across all levels if they perform well.
With this new pay transparency law, I scrolled through LinkedIn just looking at completely random jobs. You'd be surprised how many jobs there are for kids right out of college offering just as much in base if not more that are outside of IB. I think the average college graduate salary of $55k or so is heavily skewed by people who make nothing or close to nothing out of college maybe pursuing startups or the arts or fields that they're passionate about that are very low-paying or people in LCOL areas. Don't quote me on this but I feel like post-inflation and especially for cities like NY, for people out of regular colleges that care about money and thus chose a career that pays well are averaging closer to $85k in base salary working good WLB jobs, not the $50k everyone spews around.
This is correct but no one who is serious about money does IB for the few years of analyst pay. They do it for the exit opps and rapidly upscaling comp which you don't get in any other jobs (bar maybe top tier quant trading not sure how that scales). I.e. there is no need for IBs to pay >$200k for analysts when 80% leave. But they are paying VPs $700k after 8 years.
Bruh
how are you in the bottom 30% when the average income at harvard is like 85k
if you're a AN1 BB IB how are you in the bottom ~30% when 37.5% of males earn 110k+ (and your total comp would be over 110k)
IB is also just far easier to get into.
True for quant but certainly not true for SWE. The number of SWEs is orders of magnitude more than the number of bankers. It's much easier to get a SWE offer from a FAANG than it is to get an IB offer from a top bank. You don't have to go to a target school, people from random state schools or even bootcamps can break into SWE at FAANG. Anyone can get an offer with lots of Leetcode practice without needing to be super smart. Not sure if this is what you're claiming, but people on this forum often have the misconception that SWE at FAANG is very difficult to break into and you need to be super smart. Absolutely not true. You can't be an idiot but you don't need to be extraordinary whatsoever. There are countless mediocre (and dumb) SWEs at FAANG who broke in by just grinding Leetcode.
I think IB is more about stuff that doesn't really measure skill like where did you go to school and who do you know vs SWE they will actually give you a coding test and ask very technical questions to see what your true skill of the subject is, you could be from MIT or be from a community college and still be a star
Unfortunately it’s not that helpful to me. I’ve sort of known the base salaries of all of these places through basic research and talking to friends in the industry.
For example, Renaissance Technologies base salaries are pretty low, but obviously there’s more to the story there.
The bonus is where it’s at, and where the real money begins…
2 things: 1) at the junior levels the bonuses won’t be as huge for the first few years and 2) once you get to where the money is the ranges are way too wide they won’t mean anything.
The base pay is actually a decent indicator of overall pay, JS wouldn’t attract and retain talen if they paid $300k and didn’t at least match competitor bonuses (although I agree that most of this was already known so not as helpful)
Good points. Though it would've been comical if a place like Citadel which is known to give a huge range of TC's for the same position based off interview performance, previous experience, competing offers, negotiation, etc. published numbers like "250k - 2M TC" for their job roles.
Edit: It's also my understanding that this law wasn't even supposed to be about "us". It's for workers that want to make sure that they are being paid a livable wage when applying to jobs,, but ofc other jobs got caught in the so-called cross-fire. But as someone who works at one of the companies OP mentioned, man has it been awkward with friends looking up my base salary and also assuming bonus is multiples of that = ConfusedGuru must be rich lol
You think that 110-125k base salary right out of undergrad is low?
Hopefully transparency persists. BBG put out an article yesterday showing that Citi had posted a commercial banking job at the associate level with a range of $0-$2M/year and other NY employers are starting to do that as well.
It’s always Citi…
I don’t understand. Are they seriously implying there are jobs that have a base of 2 million?!
No you seem confused. Let x=actual salary. If X=b, and b lies between a and c, then ergo, x lies in the range of a and c. The range doesn't indicate all actual salaries, just that the actual salary lies in the range.
Yeah this law is great until employers start abusing this loophole you mentioned and just post an obnoxiously wide salary range to the point where it’s essentially meaningless. Employers are going to do whatever they can to not disclose this info and skate around the law as much as they can.
Think they should be required to prove at least 1 employee has that salary so if they post the range goes up to 2 mill for a commercial banking analyst then they must at least have one commercial banking analyst making 2 mil
Probably, could also be an HR fuck up from Citi. For example looking at JPM's postings across IBD / Strategy / Product / Tech they all seem to be in range. Although the obvious factor is IB bonuses can be 100% of listed base whereas some back office accounting functions are probably more like 10%
This is actually hilarious. At Citi w.. uh.. they put these ranges into the Workday job profiles last year, well in advance of this law. But some of them are not setup correctly and there is a default profile that gives $0-$2mm
is there a database where you can look up each company and it shows salaries for each role?
Not yet, but somebody will probably make one soon
Obviously Jane Street's base is insane but including bonuses, total comp packages for fresh graduates from college is ~$500k. Have several friends receive offers for that amount including base, signing, target bonus
Congrats. Are they trader, quant or swe ?
Quant trader fresh from college
.
Dang - here I am making $90k base in a family office analyst role (needed better WLB after my 2 IB internships). Thought I was balling until I saw this.
what do your previous IB internships have to do with anything?
dude, you don't need to signal you've had an IB internship to contribute to discussion... all finance professionals are welcome
lot of insecurity on this site (and thread!)
I'm not trying to "over-signal" or anything. I was just trying to indirectly make the point that I knew I'd be taking a pay cut if I went the family office route, but not to the extent that I've seen in this thread. Also, I'm female.
I’m always confused why college students so firmly believe that ibanking and consulting are the top-paying jobs out there. Back when I was in college (3-4 years ago) , every student (including the most bright and ambitious ones) was literally worshiping these jobs. They even had “break into ibanking” clubs and everyone who landed a summer intern would post “incoming xxx analyst” on LinkedIn for 12 months await worshippers. Even more so for consulting. It’s kinda ridiculous how the pre-2008 prestige ( majority of which was from prop trading ) carried so long into year 2018
But for the first two years ibanking is really just average pay ( if adjusted for wlb then it’s below average ) , consulting is below average. For exit opportunities it’s above average, but certainly not top 20 percentile. I recently found out that some back office operations managers are making 1M+ TC with 12-15 YoE ( and not just one, several of them), HR managers making 800+ with 15 YoE, and cloud sales making 1M with 10 YoE. So 1M TC at 35 years old isn’t really that special, it is very doable from even the most ordinary and unglamorous professions ( no offense to HR and ops ) without the sacrifice of wlb. As for those true top 20% professions, I won’t go into details as you guys should really learn to do your own research.
ok so what ARE you suggesting has top 20% exit ops ?? bx pe or bust / pjt rssg ??
Nope BX is not top 20% unless it’s VP level with carry. Do your own research.
SOO true. Many jobs pay similar amounts to finance. I have a lot of friends who went into consulting, at firms I've literally never heard of, and some of them are making $500K+ at this point (10+ YOE), all cash (no shitty deferred stock) with super flexible WFH setups. Not a big gig at all
I call total BS. Most regular corporate jobs pay significantly less than IB or other jobs in finance. Not even up for debate
I got the point of your post but-
that's just bullshit lol
Yeah it’s a bit exaggerated. By saying “ ordinary and unglamorous jobs “ , I mean marketing, ops, HR, regular sales, accounting etc. Not including McDonald cashier and janitor of course. But you get my point
What world do you live in?
Anyone know what Point72 academy bonuses look like? Also what base looks like when you graduate as an analyst.
I have it on good authority that employees at Jane Street wax each others groins
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