Rising Junior Losing Hope and In Need of Advice

Hey all,

I'm a rising junior at a top five undergraduate business school double majoring in finance and math in need of a lot of advice, guidance, and frankly encouragement.

I'm going into a lot of debt in order to go to the school I currently attend, about 130k. I knew this when I accepted my admission offer. Despite the shit load of debt that I knew was in my future, I accepted my admission offer as I knew I wanted to live in NYC and pursue a career in finance. Given that I got into one of the best business schools in the country, I knew it gave me the best chance to make my dream a reality.

Since January I have been recruiting for IB, like many other sophomore/rising juniors. I'm still recruiting and have yet to receive an offer and I'm losing hope. There aren't too many banks left that haven't started their interview/application process and it just seems like my chances are getting slimmer and slimmer. 2 of my favorite banks that I think I've networked decently well with haven't given out first rounds yet/application hasn't opened but other than that, I have struck out with every bank I've applied to. On top of that, my parents honestly double fucked me because I just learned that they never filled out the FAFSA and other necessary financial aid documentation that I reminded them about repeatedly and now I'm looking at taking on closer to 150k of debt when I graduate because I'm no longer eligible for institutional grants this year. I literally came home on Thursday after staying at my college house with my buddies since school ended and I found out at the dinner table with my parents. It was truly a horrific conversation. I called my schools financial aid office on Friday and they said that they are very strict with all financial aid applications this year (I'm assuming because of Covid), and that my only hope is to appeal if "there are extenuating circumstances explaining why my parents didn't apply on time." I still have zero clue what the fuck I'm doing regarding this.

I'm really starting to grow concerned about the fact that I don't have an IB offer yet and I'm starting to wonder if looking it might be time to start looking at alternative career paths like consulting, jumping in straight into private equity (if possible), or something else. Again I'm a finance and math dual degree and I have a 3.55 GPA. I'm involved in multiple clubs on campus; I have a Director position in a PE club, I'm a desk head in 2 investment groups, and I'm also a member in a banking club and hopefully will be taking on a senior leadership position next week. I'm currently doing remote two internships at a boutique west coast investment bank and an east coast private equity firm. I do not see my self working full time ever at either of these as they're just too small. I know IB is what I want to do because I find it interesting, it will allow me to pay off my debt asap, I want to live in NYC, people respect tf out of it, and most importantly for me, the exit opportunities are through the roof. The last point is the most important for me because I don't know 100% what I want to do in the long term; it could PE, VC, or I could pursue a corporate position. I'm just not sure of it as of now and I found banking attractive because not only does it not close any doors, it opens a bunch as well.

All in all, I'd appreciate any advice that anyone has for any part of my situation. If you have payed off a shit ton of debt that's similar to the amount I'm taking on, I'd love to hear from you and how you dealt with it as it's really starting to stress tf out of me. If anyone has advice on how I should attempt to appeal with the fin aid office, please let me know as I have no clue what to even say other than saying something along the lines of "my parents forgot." Any general career/recruiting advice related to the topic(s) I've described will also be appreciated. Honestly, any advice in general regarding my situation will be greatly appreciated and acknowledged.

RIP KOBE and GIGI

 

The only advice I could give you is to not give up hope. I can't really say anything about your FAFSA and to be honest, I'm sorry you got screwed on that. My dad did the same thing with me but my school was a bit more lenient. As far as the recruiting goes. Just keep applying to places throughout the summer. You'd be surprised how many extra jobs pop up throughout the year, especially for targets. Also don't focus too much on the debt. At the end of the day, you can reconsolidate or pay it back on an income based method. It always comes down to sound financial planning.

 

Yeah man it sounds like you are a competitive candidate. Keep going. I don’t really have much advice but just want to say I read your whole post, and I think there is a lot of time left on the clock for you, or at least more than you think. You are only halfway through college; you can still win in the 3rd and 4th quarters. Just take it day by day and keep taking shots.

 
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As far as not having an internship yet: there are over 3,500 hedge funds in the US, nearly 2,000 PE firms and (I think) close to 1,000 firms that qualify as Investment Banks. There are also VC funds, startup accelerators, Valuation Firms, accounting firms, search funds, and corp finance and even small businesses. There is more opportunity to gain finance experience (which you can then spin and leverage into an IB offer) than you have time to even examine them all. As long as you are truly knowledgeable and interview ready (all technicals etc. nailed), with your school and stats, there is an opportunity that exists for you somewhere.

Recruiting cycles are for the larger institutions, you have no idea how many firms don't even have any form of recruiting period. You can not wait for a job posting or a "cycle". For these smaller firms, you have to go to them, tell them who you are and why they need you as an intern. COVID is a great time to offer to work remote, and (unfortunately) for free if there are no other options.

Additionally, have you looked into many of the firms that offer 'bootcamps'?

It's hard not to get discouraged on this website when everyone whores over the most prestigious positions, but mathematically even everyone on this website can't earn those spots. Trust me, if I of all people can make it somewhere, so can you. It is all about the hustle, and how smart you make the process. With your education and resume it sounds like your worst case-scenario could be a very tiny firm in a 2nd tier city, and guess what? You spend a year or two there, then leverage your knowledge and deal experience to get yourself where you want to be, whether that be a bigger firm, different city, etc.

 

There are banks that haven't even opened their applications yet that you should apply for and continue to network with. Don't lose hope!

 

Can you honestly tell me which ones you're exactly thinking about? I was gonna make a post to really figure this out and find which banks I should really focus on. Off the top of my head I know Goldman opens the 1st, Jefferies hasn't given out interviews, BAML opens the 1st. I believe Centerview, Barclays, MS, and some others are fair game but I'm not totally sure. If you could help me out here I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

Hey OP can't say I was exactly in the same place when I was a rising junior but I can definitely sympathize – especially with the part about you taking out loans to realize your dreams. There aren't enough people in IB who really understand the stress of not just making it worth it, but making it work to survive. In addition, it can seem foreboding especially when you're at a top school with other people seemingly shopping around offers from different banks. But remember, all it takes to change everything is one good offer. I know people at GS and JPM who were getting dinged by even second tier boutiques before they turned things around. You still have a couple months, don't get discouraged yet even if it's a bit late! Especially if you're doing non-diversity its not common to win an offer in late September of even early October.

 

Thank you for commenting and glad that there's someone on here that relates to my loan situation. Loans really are a bitch and are gonna be a bitch in the future but I always just viewed them as one last bump in the road that I need to get through to get to financial freedom. I did not grow up poor (not even close) and would probably be considered upper middle class but my family still don't make nearly enough to pay 60-70k a year for school. Money was never a huge concern growing up but I just always knew I wanted more and I made it a goal of mine that their will never be something in the world that I want to experience or try (within a reasonable range) that I wasn't able to try because I wasn't able to afford it. I also have an ultimate goal of paying off my parents mortgage. It just keeps my drive alive and when shit seems like it's starting to hit the fans I panic a little.

Did the people at GS and JPM that you referred to end up IB or something else like S&T or ER? I have been putting all my eggs in one basket with IB and honestly haven't thought too much about doing something else.

 

They did end up in IB!! Truth be told I'm sure some of the hardos here will say otherwise but a lot of banking recruitment is super arbitrary and random in the short run (really this is just a guiding principle in finance in general). And except for the trust fund babies, I assure you man we've all been at that panic point before – even when you get the offer, it's not a long term guarantee of anything you're always concerned about the future and while getting an offer will put you in a better spot than before it won't completely eliminate those stresses. At the end of the day you can't do more than to do your best, prepare hard for your interviews, network. On the last point it's definitely not a bad idea to keep an open mind but don't go applying everywhere, finance is a small world and you don't want to seem like someone who doesn't know what they want, which you're not. Personally I interviewed for both trading and IB roles but you definitely don't want to overdo it and stretch yourself out too thin. And hey man it seems like you're at a target school, or at the very least a semi-target so I should add, if banking doesn't work out, there's always consulting :)

 

life is a marathon, what keeps you going are your principles and how you behave. keep going at it and you'll get there. don't be stressed (i know it's hard, but take a step back)

 

Do NOT give up on IB, if that's what you're really passionate about. I know plenty of kids who got NOTHING last spring and summer going into their junior year, getting rejected by one MM firm after another (not even getting interviews)... then the fall rolls around and they end up getting offers from JPM and MS. Now granted, these offers were for cap markets and S&T, but you can always try to internally transfer once you're in the front door.

Point is, don't let these initial dings get you down. It sounds like you've got your shit together and you're motivated... combine that with your good grades and target status, and if you persevere, I think the odds are good you'll end up where you want to be.

 

Just making sure I'm reading this correctly but are you saying they didn't get anything for junior summer but were successful FT? Just wondering as I got screwed by Covid so I'll be in a relatively similar position. Also were they from target or non-target?

 

No -- they had no success during EARLY recruiting for their junior year internship (you know -- at tail end of their sophomore year of school, and their summer BEFORE junior year started... which I believe is where you're at right now).

But once junior year started, they did OCR starting in September, got some interviews at top banks (at same time they weren't getting interviews at MM banks), and ended up getting offers from top BBs in October to start SA jobs the following summer.

 

Hella people try to transfer from S&T to IB, and its very difficult and dependent on openings. If you want to do banking, better to take an IB gig at a less recognized firm than S&T at a “top BB” for the name brand. Would make it easier to lateral because you learn skills that are actually transferrable to another IB spot

 
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You'll land somewhere in IB if you stay the course; don't fret about the debt; it will seem like small fry compared to the compensation you'll be receiving in just a few years. I would start to worry if you had that amount of debt and were planning to work as an art curator or something.

 

Lol I should've seen this one coming. I considered this for a while until I nearly blew my brains out during an upper level coding class. I just don't like coding enough at all and can't imagine my self sitting in a chair coding all day. I chose to major in math because I loved classes like calculus and linear algebra. Pure math.

 

IB Analyst here across the pond in Europe, not really sure how I can help, but you can shoot me a PM if you want to chat.

But consider the following:

  • life is not a sprint its a marathon, your debt is a long term investment - a good school is an investment in education, a network and a brand name and it is well worth it.

  • many banks are still recruiting, yes some BBs and EBs are done recruiting, but refocus your efforts on some banks that lack appeal to some students and that are leftover so that at least you would have a backup. I had an offer on the table (Associate referred me to the MD who referred me to the office head) from a well known MM (Lincoln, Blair, Baird type of shop) and having such backup really allowed me to clear up my mind and I felt better during interviews at BB as I had less pressure, this will apply to your networking efforts too. Further more there are 3 types of people during the summer - 1) those that convert and are happy about their shop, 2) those that do not convert and have to downgrade - know someone that was at CS as an internand ended up at HSBC for FT in NYC and finally 3) those that do convert and upgrade - yes there is FT recruiting spot at every BB/EB for good candidate, given your current situation the 3) option could be a great mix for you. So look into the MUFG’s HSBC, BNPP’s of the world, lock in that mother fucking offer and take if from there. Nobody networks with them, if you do it should be pretty easy to get an offer if you have the CV you say you have.

  • get your CV reviewed by your network, you seem to have great work experience but do you show social skills, teamwork, are you an interesting guy/girl. My guess is that you need to up your game regarding interests - my intern currently has value investing as his only interest - I’m at a BB and whilst he does a great job I wouldn’t have given him an interview simply because he sounded boring as fuck before I got him on Zoom yesterday.

 

Need to try boutiques. Still be making good money. Can lateral to the bank you want after a year assuming you work your butt off

Many people have done it. Alternatively, can focus on more corporate jobs and then lateral after a year as well. Keep HUSTLING

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Will update my computer soon and leave Incognito so I will disappear forever. How did I achieve Neanderthal by trolling? Some people are after me so need to close account for safety.
 

Maybe also expand your reach and consider the specialist boutiques like Torreya, Nomura Greentech, FTP, etc. Im sure Richard will have a lot to tell you about FTP

 

Dont' know who spread this rumor about me and FTP but sure I mean the firm is doing really well and is closing transactions left and right. That Mastercard Finicity M&A txn was phenomenal! Really great to see the firm killing it as usual. All the analysts who are at the firm right now do not regret their decision to be at the firm whatsoever.

Please recruit. We need more people.

recruit

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Will update my computer soon and leave Incognito so I will disappear forever. How did I achieve Neanderthal by trolling? Some people are after me so need to close account for safety.
 

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