Heading to a top 15 MBA program in the fall. No prior finance experience. I was recently offered a back office summer position in NYC. MM Firm.
Goal is to recruit for IBD at a BB/MM in the fall.
Will this summer job help?
Opportunity cost= summer with free housing at the beach.
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I'd pass. You won't really learn anything relevant to front office work, and it might actually be a stain on your resume for recruiting. Probably would be better to take a modeling class, or learn the different type of financial analysis questions they ask you on interview.
I'd personally take it, because it will help develop your story (ie you had no finance experience, became interested for this reason, pursued this job to see what it was like to work in the general finance sphere or whatever and it cemented your interest in IB). Of course, unnecessary if you already have a solid story.
Beach is nice but 3 months can get pretty boring pretty quickly.
I think its just as likely to hurt the story and develop it. Let's be honest, most FO people don't respect BO people. It's very likely to BO on the resume will make the applicants pre-BO work experience look worse.
I could easily see someone speed reading the resume go from "oh cool, Op was a global project manager in CPG" to "Oh, PMO'ing CPG must not be that impressive if its equivalent to BO work"
I guess it depends on what Ops current work experience is though.
Go to the beach. BO vs. FO, who cares. Go to the beach.
I will take the beach
I'll update mine after reading other posts/thinking about it a bit more. In my opinion:
Some very relevant activity or totally irrelevant activity but one that is super cool/interesting > BO job > beach.
Beach.
I'd advise you to take the finance gig. Why you ask?
1- Don't be shortsighted. Its sounds like you're getting your <abbr title="Masters in Business Administration">MBA exclusively to get a banking gig. You've got two years to putz around and jerk off on beaches... keep your eye on the prize and take advantage of the opportunity by positioning yourself for success (the reason you're shelling out $150k and leaving the work force for 2 years). You've got 24+ months to lounge on a beach.
2- Since you say Top 15 <abbr title="Masters in Business Administration">MBA program... I'm assuming its one of the bottom 5 of the top 15. No one at HBS/Wharton/Chicago says they're going to a top 15 program. Getting a banking gig from one of the 11-15 MBA programs is markedly more challenging than your typical M7 program. There's less OCR, and there are less "Georgetown B-School" seats available even for the banks that do OCR at your school. Almost everyone at these schools are vying for banking gigs coming out... you'll need any edge you can get to set yourself apart. It seems like you don't have any prior Wall Street experience... having JPMorgan or Credit Suisse on your resume going into summer associate recruiting could be the difference between getting an interview and not. Or having a more sophisticated understanding (or pretending to) or not.
3- Yes, the experience itself will be of little use. But thats not surprise. Its operations and its only for a few months. So if you're expecting the on-the-job experience itself to lend your candidacy... not really going to happen. Its more of resume builder/signaling mechanism to set you apart from all your classmates that have a nearly identical background to you and will be on the beach this summer. Also its operations... so you can have your cake and eat it too. You're not exactly going to be working yourself to the bone. In terms of incongruity to your banking story, I think its very easy to explain that you wanted some formal finance experience going into b-school because you thought it could only help as you work towards a career in banking. Obviously the incongruity issue is a much larger one if your pre-b-school experience was working in some capacity on Wall Street... in which case, none of my above points are really relevant.Marcus- My background has nothing to do with finance. Military/service academy grad. You are also spot on about school. I am going to an 11-15 ranked school on this years rankings.
I would probably take the back office job. It can open some doors. But you can always compromise. Maybe there's a boutique IB near the beach you'll be at? Possibly a PWM firm close by where you could work part time and still gain solid resume content and experience.
Wait, you got into B School straight out of college?
No, I am not straight out of college. I just don't have any experience in finance.
Go to the beach. Most in banking look down at BO experience becuase it isn't relevant to front office work. You might as well utilize your MBA program for what it is meant to do -- transition your career -- and enjoy the summer.
Settle for Back Office for now? (Originally Posted: 01/10/2011)
I am a senior math major with a comp sci minor (prob wont finish it, but will complete all of the programming requirements, just not hardware/tech stuff). I should have by graduation a 3.7-8 GPA (Major around 4.0). I go to a state school that is a target for operations and back office jobs at BBs. I want to go into trading and ultimately algo trading. Am i better off settling for a back office job for a few years and try and do an MFE on the side, or should I try and get into trading immediately? I changed career paths recently, so I have no internships etc. thanks a lot
you can try and do Market Risk, I know someone who did Risk Summer Analyst at a BB that ended up on the S&T side for full time. I think theres a good amount a people who do risk then trading. Also, most mFIN programs have students entering right after their undergrad (MIT,Princeton)
aim for an MFE or financial math -- maybe even try to get into princeton or MITs MSF with your quant background? i thin kthose would be your best.. dont try to swim too long in the black hole that is back office, its much better to get the additional loans and continue being a poor student so you can be a trader type earlier IMHO
Definitely avoid back office as you won't develop as a professional, and given your strong academic performance and pursuit of a quantitative major you will quickly become bored. Try to network as much as possible to get into a trading shop, wherever possible. Don't be afraid to work at smaller or lesser known shops to get some experience, just make sure they aren't a scam. Also, as short mentioned, getting an MFE or Financial Math/Quant Finance graduate program would definitely help you from a knowledge standpoint and from a marketability one. However, if you cannot get into a trading firm straight out of UG, I would recommend trying to get into Risk as was mentioned. Much easier to make it to Front Office trading from a Risk background than from a trade reconciliation one, though the latter also happens as well. You will be in a better spot than someone in Middle Office/Back Office trying to break into banking, so don't get super frustrated if it doesn't happen immediately. Just don't go for an MBA; that's the one mistake you should not make.
I wouldn't recommend back office. You will work years and have absolutely nothing to show for it, except diminished sense of self-worth, loss of confidence, and a slight decline in IQ. Also, having a quant degree, you will be extremely bored beyond compare.
Keep on looking for trading jobs or go for the MFE.
The Back Office Dilemma (Originally Posted: 10/29/2014)
Fellow monkeys,
I'm presented with an extremely difficult and time sensitive decision. I have until Friday to decide whether or not to accept a bb back office (not ops/tech) full-time offer in NY. As of now, I have no other offers on the table, and have struck out interviewing. My ultimate goal is PE via IB and I am pretty set on that path. That being said, the BB offer provides stability and in this market who knows how much that is worth and what kind of job I can get otherwise. Should I take the job or keep looking? Any advice would be helpful.
Are you getting ib interviews but you're failing to convert them into offers? If you're consistently getting invited to IB superdays and you're close but still fail...then maybe try to figure out what's wrong and keep looking. If you're not landing any ib interviews at all, then you need to accept this back office job and try again post-MBA.
Honestly, the back office to business school route is pretty fun. I got to spend my early and mid-20's working 40 hours a week....which enabled me to do so many things - play sports, travel extensively, run marathons, have lots of sex, find love, have lots of fun nights with my friends, etc. I wouldn't give all that up for the world, and it would not have been possible if I started in front office IB (I was on the front office path but got caught up in the financial crisis). I was up to $100k by 26, which while it isn't baller money, let me do everything I wanted to do, and still save bit for school. Now at business school, I could easily get an IB offer if I wanted to (the conversion rate is 88% at Kellogg), although I'm going the consulting route.
In regards to your PE goal...you need to be realistic. EVERYONE in banking wants to do PE, only the best make it into the industry (and even then, the majority of people who get a pre-mba PE role don't get a post-MBA role...it's a very tough industry unless you're a complete rockstar - the majority of people I know who are successfully went to HYP undergrad with sky high GPA's). Even if you're barely able to make it into banking, it's highly unlikely you'd be able to get PE anyways, so consider it more of "do I want to start doing 80-100 work weeks at 21 or 29."
Is mediocrity okay? Is back office okay? (Originally Posted: 10/22/2010)
I just don't want to work hard anymore. I don't want to network or get grad education. I just want to sit and relax.
There's nothing wrong with doing whatever you want to do...as long as you're not hurting anybody else.
You will regret this later in life when the bills are piling up and you have no significant savings.
That's how I felt when I graduated but once you're a couple years into your career, you'll realize that hard work is what a good day is made of and sitting and relaxing won't be nearly as fulfilling as it might seem now. There are very few things as good as coming back from a hard day of work feeling totally spent intellectually but knowing that you absolutely rocked whatever you did. Days like that are few and far between in the BO and when you have a tough one, it will be because somebody up the line screwed something up and you're the only one who has a clue how to fix it. I don't understand how you could have an ounce of pride when telling people you make sure trades are processed correctly. I don't want to work in finance so I can be a douche and brag about it, I want to work in finance so I can be excited when I'm telling people about what I'm doing, even if they think I'm an evil robber baron and have no idea what I'm talking about. When you tell people about the BO, they have no idea what you're talking about and will probably end up pitying you.
I know this all sounds harsh, but I've been in mutual fund custody for the past two years and its the cold hard truth. Sure, you can make a decent living in the BO and stress is virtually non-existent. But that comes at the cost of low intellectual stimulation and if you have any idea what the FO looks like or a legitimate interest in higher finance, you'll be miserable.
My advice is keep fighting for a good job. This year is far from over and if you give up now, you'll regret it later.
words couldn't ring more true.
Become a consultant
After a while, you get tired of hard work. It's called retirement.
If I ever get laid off, or if I ever go back to school, or if I ever get hired by an employer who won't need me for six months, I'm taking a three month vacation. It's worth the lost income- especially when I'm pretty sure I can get my living expenses in Key Largo, FL down to $2500/month.
Disagree with GoodBread on some stuff. I think a long day of hang gliding is just as satisfying as a hard day's work. Same with learning a new skill or building something. Of course, nobody will pay you to do any of that.
Agree with GoodBread - really good post.
I worked in BO/MO for 8 months couldn't take it, my brain was dead. Had to challenge myself to stimulate my intellectuality and had gotten out. So it will hit you you a couple of months or year into your job when you realize something is lacking - your intellectual satisfaction.
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