I guess I should be asking this question elsewhere, but I feel like the bullpen is the most *( and possibly only) regularly visited forum on this site. I have a question regarding s&t. I was wondering if there is a preference/prestige regarding s&t amongst BBs like in IBD and M&A. Or is sales and trading quite equal in general amongst the big banks?
If there is a difference, does Citi's trading floor rank amongst the top? Which are the top firms for s&t? in NY or in the US in general?
| +220 | UBS Accused of Favoring H-1B Workers While Cutting U.S.-Born Employees | 51 | 20h |
| +114 | ONLY THESE BANKS OR YOU STRUCK OUT | 33 | 5h |
| +110 | IB Energy Drink Tier List / Ranking | 72 | 1d |
| +91 | PJT M&A Group Selection 2026 | 14 | 1d |
| +55 | Firm Thinks I'm Lying About Offer | 18 | 17h |
| +51 | Feedback for internship first desk at IBD BB - personal fit, "don't be too confident" | 29 | 1d |
| +33 | Stay at Weak Dealflow Team or Lateral? | 10 | 2h |
| +30 | Does BofA still pay its associates rat pellets? | 15 | 1d |
| +30 | Indiana University Fraternity Pipelines | 15 | 1h |
| +28 | Rogo AI | 8 | 40m |
Career Resources
Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling.
Go ask in the trading forum...500 post threads yeah nobody ever posts there.
If you are looking for prestige in trading, you don't really want to be a trader.
one mo time y'all
if you want prestige, become a doctor if you want prestige, become a professor if you want prestige, become an engineer if you want prestige, become a scientist
if you want to work in an extremely competitive environment, test your personal limits, and fucking get paid, then work in finance.
prestige worldwide, wide, wide, wide..
P&L
i meant prestige as in like the Salomon brothers in the '80s, a big player in bonds and mortgage loan markets; i was wondering if there is something equivalent in today's finance world. not as in social prestige (ex. becoming a doctor, lawyer, etc.)
Any prestige got bitch-slapped out of every firm after Lehman BK'd. When GS became a bank, that was pretty much it.
We're still too early in the cycle, but somebody will eventually step up again and become the BSD that everybody loves to hate.
goddammit nobody gives a flying shit
just invent a market and you'll have the last laugh if you cash out or short it before it collapses
^ At least that's how the techies did it.
BB Sales and trading rankings (Originally Posted: 01/20/2013)
Hi,
I have been trying to see how the different banks rank in s&t, I know it is very product orientated, but the top tier largely seems to be GS, JPM, BAML, MS and maybe DB.
I made this fudgement based mainly on comparing earnings from S&T at the different banks. However, what I don't get is that by revenues BAML is ahead of GS and on a par with JPM, however, on this forum people often say BAML is not a top tier player in S&T.
I was hoping to get some views on what is top tier and how to differentiate different banks, revenues/ profits seems the easiest way?
Thanks
Some insight would be great, I've noticed discrepancies such as this as well.
Maybe it could just be a short-term anomaly. Goldman and JP are still considered the "best" in s&t but they just have been doing poorly relative to their past performances and this current poor performance is hitting their business model; any bank would be compared to pre-volcker. Because the previously best firms (and perhaps current..) had shifted its resources and energies into developing its prop desks pre-volcker, they are paying the costs now as they attempt to restructure their business model for trading within current regulation.
Some insight would be great, I've noticed discrepancies such as this as well.
Maybe it could just be a short-term anomaly. Goldman and JP are still considered the "best" in s&t but they just have been doing poorly relative to their past performances and this current poor performance is hitting their business model; any bank would be compared to pre-volcker. Because the previously best firms (and perhaps current..) had shifted its resources and energies into developing its prop desks pre-volcker, they are paying the costs now as they attempt to restructure their business model for trading within current regulation.
If anyone could provide insight into the top FICC firms, that would be greatly helpful (or if someone could even mention by different products).
importance of prestige in S&T (Originally Posted: 09/13/2009)
hey guys,
does firm prestige have any importance in trading?
I recently got an offer to trade at one of the bank's top desks, but the bank itself wouldn't be considered "bulge bracket"
I was under the assumption that in trading, prestige means pretty much nothing, but now that i've gotten back to school, i'm trying to decide to take my offer or go through full time recruiting, although i'm leaning towards taking the offer.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the subject?
IMO, you would be a fool to not take the offer. You can make incredible money as a trader anywhere as long as you perform so who cares what it says on your business card? When you drive up to your million dollar house are you really going to say "man, I wish I was working at a mediocre desk at Goldman rather than the top desk at a smaller bank"?
NEVER lose your BlackBerry www.conveniencesoftware.com
In trading, your role is more important than the prestige of your firm. Look at this way: would you rather make markets at Goldman or do some sort of prop trading at one of the "lesser" banks? The money you can make, your potential career opportunities and the amount you will enjoy your job are going to be directly correlated to the job you have, regardless of firm (to an extent, of course). I would go with the more interesting position. If this were banking, I'd stick with prestige, but since it's not, I stick with the above.
whats your doing in bigger then where you are doing it at
confused, which bank is it? and to do what?
I'm concerned you may be misjudging the strength/weakness of the bank and the strength/weakness of the desk
S&T ranked...which firms are the most prestigous on the street (Originally Posted: 01/07/2008)
If you go to any banks website...they all claim that some some financial magazine or newspaper ranked them #1 in S&T...but which firms are truly the finest and best amongst the Bulge Bracket???
In terms of S&T revenues: Goldman Sachs is #1
GS, MS, LEH, CITI are probs the most prestigious
In terms of total revenue/earnings over the last several years, GS has clearly been #1, with the gap having widened significantly between it and the next chunk of firms. Up until the subprime fiasco, for the past three or so years, DB has been #2 and MS/CITI have been #3 and #4. In 2007, DB likely retained the #2 spot while Citi and MS fell further back because they took gigantic hits (then again, neither Citi nor any of the European firms have reported Q4 results yet).
None of that really matters because different firms have different strengths, and even some extremely prestigious firms suck in certain areas while some otherwise unimpressive firms have carved out niches.
In terms of product, I would say:
Equities UBS GS
Equity Derivs French banks (BNP Paribas/Soc Gen)
Rates/Credit DB Lehman JP Morgan
Commodities (they're really the only two players) GS MS
FX DB Citi UBS
MBS (as if anybody cares) Lehman Bear
...I work at one of the above firms so feel free to PM me.
It depends which desk you want to go to... Goldman sucks in some areas. I am sure some banks like BofA are number 1 in some products.
Remember, you will always be a salesman, no matter how fancy your title is. - My ex girlfriend
Bear is/was/will again be "the" debt S&T powerhouse.
http://www.creditinvestmentnews.com/CIN/2007BTDawards/CIN051407s.pdf
According to that, JPM has consistently been #1
Don't worry Sherminator, no one buys that Bear is/was/will forever be any sort of powerhouse. Clearly Closer121 is enamored with his future employer. Statements like that are ridiculous and show his naivete.
good one nystateofmind.
where does ML stand in the rankings, what are their strengths in S&T, does pay their differ much from Leh,Goldman, MS, Citi
I think ML is dead. There was a WSJ report a couple weeks ago that they were planning on cutting 1600 jobs, mostly trading positions.
Gimmearedbull is exactly right.. A BBs entire S&T division is dead because of losses on a few desks.
You're an idiot.
Reiciendis et error magnam est ut dignissimos molestiae. Quo hic eveniet accusamus praesentium. Excepturi et cumque qui dolor tempore nesciunt saepe. A saepe excepturi occaecati eos ut aliquam.
Quibusdam dolores blanditiis repellat laudantium. Iste ullam ad temporibus ut et pariatur molestiae blanditiis. Cumque error enim aut voluptate ipsa. Blanditiis ut fugit facere.
Voluptatem deleniti possimus et ab. Ex voluptatem quidem necessitatibus vitae dolore. Doloremque voluptas magnam accusantium officiis dolor tempora. Voluptas voluptas facere incidunt consectetur ducimus. Non omnis ut aut. Consequatur minima voluptatibus nemo doloremque. Modi officia placeat asperiores assumenda tenetur.
Voluptatem sint asperiores atque nihil. Optio ad qui dolore assumenda sed accusantium.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Fuga ea aut consequuntur quaerat omnis alias. Ab nesciunt quia dolor ullam et nihil laudantium. Est et quae nesciunt voluptatem est eos omnis.