To those who stayed in IBD
I've been seeing some posts / comments by more experienced IB professionals e.g. the Q&A senior banker, young directors etc.
To those who stayed in banking (preferably A2As), how do you feel about your decision? Do you regret not going to PE? Are you happy with comp / how interesting the work is? It seems to me going A2A gives you an opportunity to get some great opportunities very early on in your career so was just curios about people's experience
A2A, not only regret staying in IB, regret pursuing finance. Besides the money I've been able to save, there has been no redeeming aspect of doing this job for 5 years. Everything you need to learn as an analyst you pick up in the first 6 - 12 months. By the time you're A2A, you should be able to run laps around most junior bankers and the associate job tbh doesn't add *that much* value.
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
Quick question: so is the main reason you dislike the job is the repetitive nature? Did you ever consider going to PE / HF? Thanks again.
I dislike the job because no matter how high you rise, you'll always be someone's bitchboy. Even if you're a senior MD or group head, you just become an increasingly higher-paid bitchboy the higher you climb. You don't own your time or your life. Also the people who end up in IB long term are unremarkable in every sense except for their ability to eat shit from clients and group heads. I don't find the buyside appealing so no.
I went to an Ivy so if I could do it over again, I would have studied comp science and tried to get into tech.
Got it, thanks - appreciate the insights!
Lol you think you wouldn't be a bitchboy working in tech? Plus PE & business owners holding the whip are still at client/investor's beck and call. But I guess the ultimate achievement is to rise to a level where your bitchwork is executed by an army of bitchboys.
No, you wouldn't be a bitchboy in tech, you would be a pedigreed and skilled software engineer who is judged based on coding ability. Google "10x employee". That concept can't be applied in banking or PE because every employee is an indistinguishable and replaceable cog performing rote tasks. The rainmaker MD is the only individual in the organization who could potentially be a 10x employee.
Then why is Blind full of FAANG SWE's bitching about their job?
Because employees at all levels of all organizations in every line of work bitch? That's why it sucks being an employee. Your employer owns your time. But at least in tech they mostly work 40-50 hour weeks, have weekends to themselves with flexible vacation policies, are highly paid, and have a highly desired and tangible skillset that's easily transferable.
Think that hour range is a target but not a reality. Definitely not the case at Amazon or Apple based on what I've read from testimonials. You think startup tech struggling for funding is going to be happy with you leaving at 5? And explain what value you could be adding; you could be a google engineer who spends all year on programming the gmail trash bin functionality. How valuable could you feel engineering alongside an army of SWE's in a giant tech company?
My wife works in tech and her lifestyle is unbeatable and she makes great money. I told you that if I could do it over again, I would choose tech, so what exactly is the point of this back-and-forth here, to convince me otherwise, or convince yourself that you're making the right choice with finance? You sound incredibly green. Who gives a shit about adding value when you're making great money and have a life outside of working 24/7? Like so much value is being added in IB / PE *eye roll*
If you're reason is you wish not to be a "bitch-boy", you're in a for a real rude awakening. Did IB for 2 years, so I get that. I have friends in tech as you described below, perhaps lets bitch boy but like you said, still someones bitch.
I now own 2 businesses. I advise HNW individuals on wealth management and also run a telecoms firm. I am very very much my client's bitch and I own a majority stake in both my businesses? So when do you want it to stop? The buck doesnt' stop anywhere.
You can easily say "oh well you could just you know say fuck you to the client" ... yes, and you could to your MD as well no? This whole "bein someone's bitch" is soooooo fucking overrated. One of the biggest misconceptions of why analyst life in IB sucked. It sucked for many reasons, but being someone's bitch does not rank top 5. You're someones bitch anywhere you go
How are you an associate in your early 30s if you did A2A
What does it matter to you?
I agree with the first guy — especially the bitchboy sentiment.
Besides having a lot of $$ - I feel like I wasted a lot of TIME (in terms of social life and also in terms of career progression) and set myself back somewhat. Best to figure out what you want to do and pursue that right away.
I’m in one of the traditional exits paths now (corp / buyside - dont want to say much more) and am much happier - even though i took a significant cut in pay.
Depends man, the guy above is a perfect example of guys who are not passionate about the work but are chasing it for the money only. Thing is it does not take long to make the money you fantasize about in college and then you ask yourself now what, you take the money for granted and hate heading into work every day and before you know it years have gone by and your already a VP who’s not good enough to make it upwards and frankly too old for the buyside grind, so you have to make a drastic career change into Corp dev or something else (not at all a bad option) but not the most ideal path since it is a forced exit not a pursued one if you know what I mean. Ask yourself are you passionate about the work? Is this what you want to do with your life? and yes it is an extremely lucrative career path if you make it (requiring a great deal of sacrifices). I know this is not exactly what you were looking for but to be fair you will not get the answer you are looking for from here because everyone is different with their goals, priorities, lifestyles, ambitions etc. You just have to think really hard about what you want, what makes you satisfied and what makes you happy at the end of the day. And all those things will change as you get older, as does everyone’s.
Thanks, OP here. Very interesting hearing all people's opinions and experiences.
Are you in IBD? You seem more passionate about the job so curious to hear how your experience has been
k
How does someone say so much about absolutely nothing. OP asked for A2A experiences and you, as a prospie, told him about fucking Waterloo-whatever the hell that is
I personally don't want to stay in IB but I work at an EB that has seen a surprising number of A2As in select groups. There are certain groups where there's just a strong culture of going A2A meaning that they take better care of their analysts, spend more time to mentor them, and give them more responsibilities. As such, they usually have an analyst experience that's somewhat different from the two and out experience.
when you say surprising amount, can you give numbers. Like 2/10 analysts in a group, etc.
EB so more like 1 in 2 but consistently so
I’m a director and I don’t regret the journey. I’ve been in the industry over 10 years and it’s provided tremendous financial security which gives me a lot of flexibility at a young age. I also somehow managed to retain some sort of a social life during all my years.
Having said that, I’m not passionate about this and COVID has exacerbated the shit parts of this job with minimal means of a reprieve. I’ve definitely been giving thoughts as to the next steps. I’m partially focused on FIRE as I just don’t believe this kind of lifestyle is sustainable for me beyond another 5 years MAX (likely 3).
The reason I don’t think I can do this forever is because I definitely look at the more senior people in my group and think “Holy shit I do not want to be them.” The constant grind and pressure to bring business, lack of consistency and compromise in lifestyle, and shit eating from clients just seems to get worse the more senior you get. When I was a more junior banker, yeah you were essentially at the beck and call of senior people and clients but the stakes were lower. As a more senior banker, you actually have to “care”
Im fortunate to be young, well-off and with no real responsibilities (no wife and kids) so that is liberating because when I see some of the MDs, their responsibilities and lifestyle, I think “you couldn’t leave even if you wanted to”
Hi, thanks for the insight. I do agree that even in the top, EDs and MDs work a lot (or at least constantly on call; our ED still replied to our client at midnight). I'm currently at an EB and like the people and the culture, as people are very nice and helpful, and I'm thinking of staying for the long run. Do you have some insights that you would like to have known or want to tell an individual who is just starting the industry? Appreciate the insight as always.
Hi,
It is not the first time I see some people referring to "FIRE" on this forum. Could you please explain what it means?
Thx
It stands for Financially Independent/Retire(d) Early. Essentially, it's a movement where the idea/goal is to save as aggressively as possible until you are able to hit a target number for your portfolio. It could be $1 million, $2 million, etc. Hitting that "number" will allow you to essentially "FIRE" and live off the passive income of your investments/portfolio while you pursue other aspects of your life outside of the 40+ hour/week grind of white collar America. There's a subreddit dedicated to it, if you want to learn more. Check out r/financialindependence
What's your number?
$10M would be ideal lol but I think I'd at least switch to something chiller north of $5M
I'm currently at $2.5M of liquid assets. I have an unrealized stake in a unicorn that may IPO in 1-2 years that will at the minimum double that number *fingers crossed*.
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