An Associate told me the best way to get ahead is to be a psychopath?

Hello all,

Today was my first day when I started to network for IB internships and informational interviews. I cold emailed 3 associates  and I was shocked when all three replied and set up meeting times and one even got on the phone with me after he finished work. They were all alumni from my semi target school (28% acceptance rate) but not a ivy league or anything like that. I have always been really good with networking and talking to people so that probably helped.

Anyways I just want some thoughts on a interesting thing this associate said to me during our call. He's at a MM M&A shop. He basically said to me so you want to do banking eh? I said yes I want to be a good monkey and climb the ranks. He said that if you really want to climb to the top you have to basically be a psychopath and do nothing but eat, breathe, and sleep banking. The funny thing is that I kinda came to that conclusion on my own a few years back, but it was surreal hearing it from an actual IB associate.

He also said how he usually works around 70-80 hours a week so it's a "good" work life balance... yeah definitely a banker. Anyways do you guys think there is some truth to what he said. I'm not talking about just being an analyst or associate. I'm talking about staying in banking and reaching MD level at a BB, EB, or MM. I feel like you have to be kinda cracked or a certain personality type to reach that level, especially if you're coming from a non target like myself.

I've got no friends, no girlfriend, barely any family, love finance, only care about money, so I feel like I'm a prime candidate for this kind of lifestyle. I realize that my feelings could change but at the moment I have no interest in getting married and having kids or anything like that. All I do is school, work, and lift heavy shit at the gym. I'm content with my lifestyle although some days I do feel a void and dare I say lonely. I'm not boring or anything I have plenty of hobbies outside of banking. 99% of people I meet my age are only interested in drinking at bars/clubs so I've just kinda given up trying to make any "real" friends.

 
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There’s some truth to that. Banking becomes your life at that point, everything you do revolves around your job, like literally everything you do, it takes priority over your family, holidays, personal life, etc. I’m at a BB and generally I see two types of MDs that are really killing it:

1) Highly competitive and extremely determined/driven, so similar to the kinda “psycho” you refer to. They are difficult to work with/for at times but can pull in big deals and really push to get shit done

2) Also competitive and determined but very good with people, extremely likeable and suave. Typically a trusted long-term advisor and personal friends to CEOs, PE partners etc. They look like less of a psycho but will go to the extreme to get things done too if needed

Have worked with both types and by far prefer type 2 and wanted to become one at one point when I was an analyst. After a few years I have now come to the conclusion this is simply not worth it - ultimately I want to have a life. Don’t want to cancel plans last minute and grinding to 1/2am when I’m in my 40s (yes this still happens on fairly regular basis at MD level if you have deal flow) or never able to disconnect and not look at my phone for over 20 mins even while on holiday. Each to their own but you may actually need to try banking for a couple of years to see if this really is for you.

 

Why do you think people in their 40s stay at the level and "have no life". Are those kind of people just wired differently? Is it really about the money anymore at that point? With the level of knowledge you would have you could get a way better work life balance gig. People with families who do it is even crazier to me.

 

Because at least in part this is their passion, chasing the next big deal, positioning for the next big mandate etc. I think you have to at least enjoy this gig or driven by it to some extent in addition to the money to last as a good MD

 

Golden handcuffs too - lifestyle creep is real. You can't believe how many people making $1m+ are actually quite tight on cash flow. Think about it - a mortgage on the $1m house, 2 kids in $40k a year private schools and $$$ travel sports, two car payments, the club bill... If you are in IB you're not taking care of the kids - so either partner either does not work, or you have a very high childcare expenditure. I sound like I'm joking but I'm really not, all of this stuff adds up.

Many of these guys who seem super set, not BSD money but doing well, really do depend on each paycheck. Not to say woe is me, MDs are poor, but it just wouldn't be in these guys' orbit to take a 30% pay cut for corp dev or something because often their lifestyle does really depend on making IB money at that point

 

Yes that's correct. You consider your networking contacts to be friends? They're acquaintances at best. Just because I'm good at getting someone to talk to me on the phone does not make them my friend. Friend is not a word I throw around lightly. I am great at networking and making professional contacts AND I still don't have any friends. But I'm honored that I have to defend my friendless status.

 

The more senior you get, you’ll need to dive deeper than surface level networking relationships. It’s true if you put your head down and grind you’ll make it to at least VP, but eventually your lack of social skills or connectivity across the industry will hinder your chances of reaching MD, especially from a non-target. There’s plenty of targets like you who are willing to grind like there’s no tomorrow, but they also have the advantage of being the Harvard guy / gal in the room and being able to leverage that. From my observation, those who rise to the top from non target backgrounds said they worked like a machine but also focused a lot on building relationships to overcompensate for the lack of inherited connections by going to a top tier target. 

 

Was told the same thing by an associate at GS--might've spoken to the same person

 

Those qualities don’t necessarily make you a psychopath, it could just be high-functioning autism

 

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