Where does Stern really lie?
Ignore title I am currently picking my college and have acceptances at NYU Stern, USC, Georgetown McDonough, and Cornell... everyone at my prep school is telling me to go to Stern as it is generally regarded well (better than the rest), but this forum really seems to dog on stern, even putting it in the same group as UVA. I honestly find that pretty crazy since UVA (even the business school) has always felt like a place that you go if you really struck out but are a smart kid. Even Michigan, which is a great school, I feel like doesn't get nearly the same aura as stern in real life but here they are always ranked together.
I asked this question on reddit and 80% of people told me to go to stern... looked up threads here and stern loses the comments against basically everyone even USC which I personally don't like. I mean there's just no way there can be this big a disparity between this forum and the rest of the world, but at the same time people here are more informed. So if you had to answer in an unbiased way, what are stern's immediate peers in terms of actual prestige? And for someone who is smart (top prep school, 1590 SAT without studying, etc) and will be in the top 20-30% of the class, will I place at a top bank?
congrats. listen to your buddies at andover and go to stern.
Do not do this go to Cornell
Stern is really cutthroat and there is high internal competition making it a poorer academic experience compared to other schools, but the school has a whole consistently places well into investment banking year in, year out. About 200-250 kids consistently every year is no joke of a number, matched by very few schools in the nation. This may sound less when compared to class size, but trust me that there are a plethora of a kids who don't want to do IB, and a plethora who can't (low GPA). While people here love to lambast the Stern curve for its brutality, it really is self-selection. If every kid there got a 4.0, IBs won't start opening up more seats for Stern kids.
Would you say the ease of placement is actually higher at Stern than say cornell or georgetown for someone who will be in the top 25% of the class? Also which of the three has the best peak placement (eg, which school has better outcomes for the very top of the class). This is probably what I'll make the decision off of
Well that's the thing buddy, if your in the top 25% at any of these schools, you will place similarly if you make the best use of the plethora of resources you have, there is no opportunity that either will hold you back from. Would argue though, Cornell might be a tad bit more competitive considering that Econ/PPE/Nolan/Math kids are also gunning for the same roles and have access to similar resources, considering Cornell is an all around well-performing school, unlike NYU where Stern is miles above other majors/schools, or Georgetown where recruiting is concentrated at McDonough/though other schools do considerably well too. However, at this point, you should be looking at fit and other external factors, whether you like competition or not, whether you like a big city or a town etc etc.
Why don't u go to cornell gng
I'm trying to find reasons to go to cornell bro can you tell me
I don't go to cornell but what I've heard is that literally cornell has one of the most straightforward pipelines for finance. You just go to the events and do everything as you're told and you will get a good offer. I advise u to connect with a lot of cornell heads on linkedin
Cornell without a doubt. How is this a question?
Stern for placement relative to the number of kids trying sucks. You are competing with hundreds of other extremely sweaty kids who only want IB. Cornell is an Ivy League school with far less competition for IB. At Stern it is the expectation that you intern at some place every semester.
I know many people at Cornell who have placed incredibly well — you will never not have an opportunity that an NYU kid has. I went to another non H/Y/P Ivy and I cannot understate how invaluable it has been to have that brand name. FWIW, I don’t know anyone who thinks of Stern as more prestigious in the general populace, and that matters.
Include in the mix how much more rich of a social life you will have at Cornell, how nice having a campus is, the quality of connections is higher, Greek life is awesome, it is a no brainer to me.
Happy to answer any other questions — at an EB and am heading to an MF, and the above is consensus amongst all of my peers I’ve spoke with this about (and in general recruiting talk at my firm).
Edit: NYU boners throwing MS at me: stay coping, pedigree matters.
Cornell or Georgetown would be better
Yeah that's the question I asked in the post man, why? I know that the opinion of this forum is cornell/gtown are better, but the placement at stern is similar and LITERALLY everyone I know outside of this forum is saying to go to Stern so it is more prestigious. I'm trying to get real reasons not to go to stern... it places the same % of interested students as cornell/gtown (I saw someone break down the employment reports and some subjective interest data on here).
If you're a smart guy you will get a good offer from any one of the schools you mentioned. You're splitting hairs. At this point it's about the school you will be a better fit at.
I trusted this forum a lot when I was in your shoes and it really worked out for me. I often found everyone outside this forum had no idea what they were talking about.
Sorry to hear about the uva rejection
If you want to exit into PE choose Cornell. Lots of PE funds are super picky about pedigree, and Cornell is considered more prestigious than Stern.
The actual buyside network at NYU is far superior. Pedigree Cornell has by an hair (can't beat Ivy) but PE funds that are that picky about pedigree to differentiate Cornell and Stern aren't hiring from either buddy...
I'd put it this way regarding stern: if you are smart and willing to put your head down and work, there are very few schools that will get you better opportunities (HYPSMW, Columbia, and maybe UChicago) on both sellside and buyside. Certainly your peak will be higher than dyson/mcdonough... top kids at dyson go to GS and EVR, top kids at stern go to p72 and millennium. The buyside network is far superior in both quality and quantity than cornell/georgetown.
If you go into NYU with the idea that you can coast, or you can have a normal college life, etc, you will most liekly end up at PWC. NYU does not have the institutional prestige to get you looks at even lower MMs if you don't at least have a 3.4/3.5 GPA at Stern. Cornell will certainly be a more fun experience if you want to have a college life.
Simply: 20th percentile of stern loses to 20th percentile of cornell/gtown. 60th percentile of these 3 are equal. 80th+ percentile of stern will beat the others.
Honestly unless you have some connection to DC I'd forget georgetown. Don't consider USC.
Lastly. regarding prestige, some people will think Stern is ivy-level, most will think it is a great school, some people will think it is NYU and a commuter school. I wouldn't make my decision based of off this.
The comment about GS and EVR versus P72 and Millenium is ridiculous. Kids at Cornell consistently place more people to P72 and CAP than Stern. The thing is that no one chooses MMs because they want to start their career in banking. For context P72 gave 5 offers to Cornell this cycle and only 2 took them.
Untrue on all counts simple LinkedIn search man
Everyone at Stern lies!
unless you’re retarded you’ll be able to place from any of these schools without much difficulty. I personally would pick USC but that’s because I’m a degen who would want to get wasted every weekend. Dont overthink it
USC on top
Same. I went to (a much lower caliber) school in SoCal and would pick USC from this list. Unbeatable college experience to be a young guy in California. Heaven on earth and you should have no issue getting into finance.
At stern and placed at a BB but wouldn't recommend the school over cornell. Very toxic and competitive enviorment here that you don't need to put yourself in if you have other options. Will place fine from both but will be easier from Cornell and you will probably enjoy college more. Also if you ever decide you don't want pure finance out of school you have options at Cornell for really anything else be it consulting or something else. At stern there are probably 20-30 "good" offers each class meaning top bb/eb/buyside out of a 650 class size where 200-300 recruit. Not everyone does well from stern decent amount of people strike out of IB recruiting here while having dedicated college to it.
By striking out, what do you mean? Are we talking like a lower MM or genuine big4 accounting. Also are these people that strike out top 35% of the class and/or in decent clubs (aka was it generally predictable that they'd come out empty if you knew their resume)?
I still don't see how it is easier at cornell - the numbers game (percent of interest that places) is still the same and stern has better pipelines. Did you enjoy NYC? I feel like I much prefer that to ithaca where there is not much going on and I would probably have to join a frat to have fun
I would say its pretty club dependent in terms of how ib recruiting will go. In that stern alumni in general are not helpful at all unless you have a shared clubs/warm connection due to the volume of people that reach out. This is very distinct from cornell/georgetown alums that have more sense of school spirit/loyalty. NYC can be fun sure, but to really make the most of it you need to not surround yourself with the stern club crowd as much which is antitechital to the having fun/experiencing nyc. ie. (the majority of people that place well did nothing in college besides get good grades and obsess over ib recruiting and stern club scene — the mindset is very much I'll have fun in college after I get a job). To answer your question regarding striking out there are plenty of people that had good grades even with the stern curve that ended up at mm/lower than what you would expect and a few who unfortunately did not place which doesn't work out great in so far as all the school is good for is IB/Finance recruiting— not the greatest school for consulting/other business disciplines.
Enjoy UVA
Average insecure stern cornball
sure intern
Not top three
Depends what you want. The Pros of each are as follows:
Stern: if you are in the top ~30% of the class you will be guaranteed a placement, though many go UMM/lower BB (JEFF, Barclays, Etc) and top ~15% should yield an excellent chance of GS/MS/JPM or EB. Would be the worst for student life and by far the most cutthroat (often chosen by those who only have banking in mind). Prestige down the line is somewhat questionable despite strong banking pipeline
Georgetown: McDonough is solid and if you’re in the right clubs and network well should have no problem placing UMM or better, with a relatively lower ceiling than Stern as others here have mentioned. Decent student life and pretty campus, good prestige down the line.
Cornell: You’d have the chance to break in anywhere, though less would go to top tier HF/Buyside out of undergrad and many will end up at BB/EB. Decent student life and you will have a strong alumni network and resume prestige for the future in and out of finance.
USC: By far the best student life/ balance, from what I’ve heard it shouldn’t be a problem to place there while maintaining a social life. Less cutthroat than the other 3, diploma carries better prestige than NYU but worst than Georgetown or Cornell. Strongest by far for west coast placements and you would easily be able to break in to LA/SF EB/BB/buyside opportunities out of undergrad, with NY pipelines becoming stronger by the year but not as established as the other 3. Top 10-20% of recruiting class should have their pick of shop (excluding HF), the rest will go lower BB or UMM. Very few HF placements in general
I would consider USC as a good college experience will mean more down the line than any early career placement. If you’re dead set on an elite shop out of undergrad and convinced you can be top of your class, you could go to any of them and be fine. If you want HF go stern, Cornell and Georgetown if you want to get EB/JPM/GS/MS while being top ~25% of your class while maintaining social life. Cornell if you want elite buyside now or later. Hope this helps
In what world is a Marshall degree more prestigious than a Stern one?
The majority of the finance world considers Stern a banking sweatshop with not much merit beyond that. My team and past teams I’ve worked on are partial to Marshall students because they’re very often well rounded.
Only 30% of everyone who shoots for IB? Is that including all mm/lmm/non m&a/coverage placements too? Would be helpful if you could go more in depth on the breakdown + placements for specifically non-nepo non-dei.
If you are top 30% of the class (GPA) and interested in banking you will place. Generally 40% of the class recruits and 60% of those place and the other 40% go to second choice jobs. Im coming up with these numbers as someone at wharton, ours are about +20% (80% place)
I'm also a senior with an offer from Stern, and have a transfer option for Cornell next year. Interested in learning what you decide to do, since I'm probably going to end up committing Stern for freshman year and then accepting that transfer offer in sophomore (not bank-recruiting related reasons, fwiw).
Gonna pick stern, I am confident going in and it seems to do better at the top end. Plus NYC appeals to me more than Ithaca
Fairs. Personally, I can't wait to leave--however I wish you the best!
I did Stern. Super high pressure but recruiting resources and access to alumni was incredible. If you do what you’re told (and have a little luck), you will get an offer by senior year at a great bank. If you’re also really smart you’ll get an offer at a top bank. Visited USC and can definitely say that would be the most fun tho. Cornell is great too, you’ll get more of the “college experience”, but if your singular decision is “what is the best school for IB out of these”, it’s Stern (also, maybe that shouldn’t be your only reason for picking a college).
Stern lies three blocks south of 14th street and a universe south of Wharton
x
Cornell is 12 in USnews and nyu is 32. Stern is 2 in U.S. news finance and Dyson is #11, behind Kelley, tepper, UNC, ut, and Boston college. See how that works?
Stern’s reputation is not NYU’s and anyone with a brain sees it as at least comparable with Cornell
That's NYU's rank, not stern's.
I go to a school similar to McDonough in terms of target/prestige (Duke/Vandy/WashU), with friends at both Stern and USC. I think your decision should come down to Stern vs Cornell.
I don't think USC is that strong in terms of placement - plenty of kids end up at West Coast MM banks with the exception of the top grinders placing very well. From what I've seen, I believe the recruiting culture at USC is very gatekeepy, as I've seen some sophomores who aren't even aware of full IB timelines and how recruiting processes work. Echoing what others have said, the ceiling and potential of Stern is significantly higher than all the other schools, but I would say Cornell is probably more risk-adjusted if you think you wanna just coast in college and not be an IB hardo (you get the Ivy League branding for life, but then again you'll never be HYPSMW). Stern also gives you the optionality to explore other fields in finance with its great NYC network (HF, buyside, trading, etc). You also have the ability to schedule in-person coffee chats, which goes way further than being another 1 out of thousands of kids asking for a phone call.
I think it comes down to if you want to have a great nightlife in NYC or if you wanna be stuck in Ithaca drinking your ass away every weekend in the freezing cold. Regardless, all these schools are amazing and you should choose based on how hard you're willing to work + the type of college experience you want
Incorrect, I go to USC and am retarded AND have no nepo and still went to a solid BB in NYC
When we recruit from Stern, my view is that the Stern kids are definitely sharp, however I don’t necessarily think that is because of the school but rather in spite of it. Seems like very much a pressure cooker environment which just seems unnecessary at 18-20 years old. I would recommend any of the other schools you listed versus Stern imo.
To caveat, we recruit from a fairly technical group and while the Stern kids definitely do have some advantage initially in first 1-2 months, that leg up really goes away pretty fast as the other analysts get ramped.
dont be stupid. Go ivy league. Stupid amount of cornell kids at Evercore when I was there. Like 1 in 4 people in my intern class were cornell (didnt matter which school, no dyson for the record.)
I went to another ivy and it really opens doors that none of the other schools will. Especially in this environment prestige will matter more than you think. If you ever decide later to raise your own fund, go buyside, or have a startup, the Cornell name will help you infinitely more than stern.
Lmao this post is troll. Ross is above Stern
Ragebait
Lol all the stern kids MS’ing me. If u think michigan ross doesn’t place lights out directly into PE and top IB vs NYU stern - keep coping at ur middle market brother
UVA, Stern, Michigan all good options. Just a question of what vibe you're looking for.
Cornell's fine and probably on par with UVA/Stern/Michigan from a recruiting standpoint, but just doesn't stand out in any way. Stern benefits from proximity, finance focus. UVA and Michigan have beautiful campuses / active social lives.
Cornell has... long gloomy winters while somehow being just as far away from good skiing? If you like the campus / people, it's obviously a great option. I personally did not
Would avoid Georgetown. Obvious tier down from the others.
Georgetown is in no way a tier down from others
Go to georgetown, lots of prep kids there so I assume something there attracts prep kids. Beautiful campus and town imo, close to DC, great opps. It’s not worse than stern in any way (likely better per capita too), the overall school is stronger, and the grade deflation seems not as bad as stern. Not everyone in MSB is gunning for IB and you have much stronger consulting outcomes. But imo if hardo culture is the only thing stopping you from attending stern just go to stern. Any school worth anything for IB is going to be at least somewhat cutthroat and competitive (except for HYPSM probably).
Stern astroturfing is real, if you are just an average kid in MSB, you'll 100% get an offer, versus not at Stern. If you say you're a hard working top 20% guy with a prep school background, you'll fit in at Georgetown and enjoy it a ton. Outcomes at the bottom are way better than other schools + comparable at the top (good clubs/frat influence a lot but still attainable). Look at GPS/GUIO kids as well as GUSIF/Zeeba Board.
Go to a non-NYC school with an actual campus/social life so your just not in NYC your whole life. Love DC + friends at USC/Cornell also are glad they didn't just be a NYC bot for 4 years optimizing for a job and having no social scene other than going to Peculier.
You should probably also mention that none of your USC and Georgetown friends got into Stern. Can't comment on your claims re:GTown placement but if they are true, your school is better at placing into banking than Wharton. Congrats.
I can assure you 50th percentile placement at MSB is not ib LOL. Prob more like middle office or human capital. Especially if you cut out the (many) nepo-placements.
I'll give you a simple answer. USC is only good if you want to chill and enjoy life and coast in college. Placement into good places will be tough even on west coast. GT is a bit similar, very heavy on nepo for a lot of it's placements but it's a pretty happy place overall. Really the decision comes down to Stern and Cornell if you're serious about finance and don't have hard connects high up on wall street. Both I'd say have about equal pedigree in high finance (have seen slight lean to Stern in some personal circles, but I digress). Both have their negative reps ("sweaty hardos" vs. "ivy wannabes."). Both are relatively competitive student environments. I'd put Stern's upside higher on the top end while Cornell has higher optionality in case you don't want to do finance down the line. It's really up to you if you think you can make it to the top of your class at Stern and want to do finance.
-Someone who got into both Stern/Cornell and chose neither
This is the best response here.
Stern is a top-tier target for high finance and easily beats USC or Georgetown for NYC placement. If you’re in the top 30% of your class, you'll get interviews at every BB and EB. People here just hate on the culture, not the actual recruiting power.
Try MMU
I think getting the finance offers you want will ultimately be more about YOU rather than whether you go to Cornell or Stern (the 2 more obvious choices here). Whichever one you choose, you'll be the deciding factor in interviews. Go wherever you think will shape you into the person you envision yourself being in 4 years and also where you will enjoy being. College is fun, don't forget that.
DO NOT choose Stern. Take GTown or Cornell.
The fact that every comment claiming anything's better than Stern gets hit with more MS than SB shows you exactly what you need to know. Insecure Stern kids who get pressed that their private school isn't an ivy. If you're going to a private school, at least go to one without these insufferable chuds. Better yet, go to a state school and enjoy some good sports / college culture.
You're saying over half the people on this forum went to NYU?
Yes. I’m saying the people who give enough shits to read this thread and give reactions are from NYU. Stern is in the title man. As someone who does not go to NYU, it’s not hot shit and nobody puts it on a pedestal above other semi targets atp. Just look at the placement of non-targets this year across the board in IB / PE programs. Stern barely stands out, and to deal with the obviously toxic and overly competitive culture is not worth it anymore. Go to a school where you’ll enjoy the experience, work your ass off, and you’ll be fine.
Not that this thread needed another comment but take Cornell. Right off the bat I'd discard Georgetown. Considering the other options you have, Georgetown really does not bring anything unique to the table. The recruiting is not gonna be better than if you attended Cornell/Stern, and the social scene is not as fun as USC.
Stern I'd throw away simply because of the social scene. It's hard to deny Stern's track record of success when it comes to recruiting. So while I do think Stern will give you the best shot at recruiting, I don't think it's worth it. Everyone I've met who went to NYU stern has been incredibly sweaty and competitive. Although the Stern hardos in my analyst class are only a small representation of the entire school, the fact that ALL of them are insufferable worries me about what the rest of the student body looks like. I don't think the slightly better recruiting odds that Stern awards is worth the horrible social scene/students that come with it.
I attended USC and would still advise you to attend Cornell. The recruiting pipeline for NYC at USC, while improving, is still not close to being as good as Cornell, Stern, or even Georgetown. If you are interested in LA/SF, then it becomes a different story. USC places incredibly well on the west coast, sending numerous kids to top BBs/EBs every year as well as a host of others to MMs. Marshall is not that difficult, if you are smart it's fairly easy to pull a 3.8+. Another benefit is that the student body is not competitive. People are super nice and laidback and also the IB scene at USC is smaller with much more of the students there being interested in entertainment, consulting, PWM, real estate, etc. The social life at USC is definitely USCs strongest offering compared to your other choices. That being said, the social scene there is not what it used to be in the 90s-00s and even the early 2010s. It's not going to be like getting both a SEC level social life and good academics. I always see people throw USC into the category of top party schools which I think is undeserved. I'd throw USC into the category of "I'm smart but still want a social life" schools alongside Duke, Northwestern, UCLA, etc. (So fun, but nowhere near SEC levels). USC gets harder to get into each year which naturally attracts a nerdier type of applicant, making the student body at USC more nerdy every year. While it's still going to be much more fun than Stern or Georgetown, the golden days of the USC social scene are behind us. Will USC be more fun than Cornell? Yes. Is it THAT much more fun than Cornell that it's worth going there? Probably not.
All this to say, I believe that Cornell will give you both a good social life and a solid chance to recruit successfully. Cornell is incredibly well represented on Wall Street, and places better than some of the other lower-tier Ivys and other T10-15 schools. On top of that, the social scene there is halfway decent. Have some friends who went there and loved it.
I’ll say it like this: I placed from another big ten school and I wish I had better HS grades to apply to Ross. It checked all the boxes: elite brand, work hard play very hard, beautiful college town, direct admit, learning, networking/professor relationships. If you’re between 2 schools, one is obviously higher ranked, and the financial difference isn’t terrible (~$25k/4 years), go with the higher ranked school.
i wish I went to stern icl
Stern kids are circle jerking chronic WSO types who often flood online forums like this one with loud opinions and the associated neuroticism needed to be in that 99th percentile exit op (P72, Millennium!!!!!).
On average Cornell is slightly less autistic about IB/finance, and kids are more likely to 'stumble' into seats rather than the 'have WSO accounts since high school' version.
Pick the personality you'd prefer. Of course, there are outliers. I'd recommend any highschooler to diversify their career interest - too early to lock it in - and for that single reason I'd avoid Stern.
Help me collect Stern MS to support my point.
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