Will companies revoke offer if they find out you're a veteran?
I've been job hunting(lateral) for a while now, and I am more assured that in this industry(more towards trading/quant), being a veteran is a neutral to negative factor in employers' perspective. They would rather hire a less qualified international student who needs sponsorship than giving veterans an interview(actual experience) . I now decide to hide my military experience on my CV and start a new round of application. Would they revoke offer if they run a background check and find out the candidate is actually veteran and older?
Every big bank I know of run veteran recruitment schemes, and my VP was a veteran. I really don't know where you've gotten this idea from?
If your VP an officer or enlisted? I’m also talking about hedge fund and prop trading recruiting
He was an officer in the army, and then he entered Global Markets
No, not at all. Your fears are completely unfounded. I don't know where you get some of this stuff.
Veteran is near enough a protected class (literally in some cases). Even if not, it would be a huge sh*t show if they got found to be doing something like this.
I don't know why you're making comments about "less qualified international student(s)", but they seem unnecessary and questionably motivated. International students are if anything generally at a disadvantage in recruiting due to the cost and risk of securing their visa status.
No, they would not revoke your offer if they ran a background check unless you both lied to them about your background and it was material to your candidacy.
You have no need to hide your veteran status from what I can see.
From another perspective, candidates who need visa sponsorship are also more likely to stay in the same company longer, more "loyal" and can be offered with less TC considering they have the need for sponsorship. This is what most of big companies are doing and they have been doing this for decades.
Your attitude seem to be quite bad, maybe work on that instead of coming up with excuses
All I can say is, I have tried everything to "guard" my perception of "being veteran is an edge in looking for jobs in finance" but the reality tells me otherwise
This doesn’t sound right at all, and is the opposite of everything I have seen in the industry (including our recruiting).
Military experience is a positive for many reasons, including leadership, having to perform under stress, determination, etc.
I think you are drawing inaccurate conclusions from your experiences as opposed to seeing what else might be missing from your resume. “Quant” like jobs are extremely competitive, what does the rest of your resume look like (school, major, experience?)
What you said about veteran is what I naively believed before, I’ve been interviewing for internship/full time in the quant space for almost 3 years now, it is hard not to smell the hidden discrimination from some of the interviewers(phds mostly)
I work in a quant like role (and run the whole group) and have never seen this. Like I said, what is the rest of your background? Do you have a PhD and is it required? What is your math background? Academic background?
I’m not saying it is impossible, but it’s unlikely. Any firm worth anything wants highly qualified people, and military background can be a very big positive.
This is plausible to me, I once worked at a quant shop and the PhD's were very . . what's the word . . gatekeeper-y? I had come out of one of the more quanty MBA programs where I took several Phd level classes in stats/econometrics and felt qualified to tell them when they wrong. And they were often wrong, because they don't have a good business or finance context to wrap around their math skills. And when anyone would challenge them they'd appeal to their advanced degree. It was pathetic.
So I'm not surprised such insecure people might look down on a military dude, and might favor the kid from China who only speaks numbers.
That said, as other commenters (me included) have noted above, there's other factors here. Military favoritism is generally a thing, and the above-described PhD gatekeeping is usually not powerful enough to hijack the hiring process.
My military experience was hugely highlighted in my interviews. My team told me it played a huge part in who they hired as it was me against 3 others. (I got hired off cycle)
are you an officer or enlisted, what role were you applying
Enlisted. Applied for IB. I know multiple enlisted guys and officers in various banks. Personally know a trader who was a seal for a few years and we talk all the time. Idk who put that nonsense in your head about veteran = bad. It's completely false. It helps sooo much to be a veteran
Also doesn’t matter from my experience if you were enlisted or officer. All people care about is that you served, didn’t get a dishonorable discharge and gained some experience from it.
people who hit silver banana know what I am talking about. Again, I am not talking about typical investment banking recruiting
Being a veteran is a huge plus in recruiting (even lateral when there's not specific veteran schemes) and I don't think you're going to get the answer you're looking for "oh yeah totally agree, no one wants to hire veterans".
It sounds like this is a behavioral fit issue more than anything, yes quant is mostly PHDs and Asian people and you need to be able to work with them and instead you're kind of disparaging them on here.
That said if you want to leave it off your CV they would not revoke the offer for finding it on a background check. The background check is run by a third party and it's basically making sure you worked where you say you did... you can leave stuff off your resume if it doesn't fit what you're trying to say. That said, don't lie about your age in the application portals - that would mess with your background check.
thanks, this is the answer that I am looking for
Sounds like you’re not the best candidate for the roles you're interviewing for, and instead of taking responsibility for that you’re blaming it on something completely unrelated that actually is a positive.
Non-target undergrad + top MFE program is honestly not a great profile for quant HF. That’s why top MFE grads end up mostly in quantitative roles at banks instead of places like JS. Quant HF prefers top STEM undergrad, top STEM PHD, or both.
My MFE program was able to get non target American kids into HFs like millennium, AQR as quant. Not sure why they never gave veterans a chance, yes I’ve asked other veterans in the program they only got looks from banks in the risk role
Even at top 3 MFE programs (which I assume you went to) it’s extremely rare to get a risk-taking role at a good quant HF especially if you didn’t go to a top-tier undergrad. Quant HFs don’t really respect the MFE compared to high-quality math, physics, stats, CS degrees.
Sure it has happened, but it’s the extreme exception. So you and your veteran friends probably didn’t get those roles because it’s extremely rare to get those roles with your academic background, not because you’re a veteran.
I'm sure you're telling the truth but those sound like outliers TBH.
What was *typical* for grads of your MFE program who have similar grades to you?
Not at all. In my industry, healthcare, a ton of the post-MBA hires at my school in the industry are veterans. Heck, some of them are extremely strong students given their discipline in the armed forces (one ex Special Forces guy comes to mind as probably the strongest student in one my classes and one of the best public speakers I've seen in my cohort - his previous job was in hostile environments overseas and I'm pretty sure he's led combat missions).
Some banks host vet-only events before recruiting picks up in October/November at firm-invite only events/interviews.
What? I'm a veteran and got a job a top BB with a 2.5 GPA (ded srs). they loved my vet experience.
Front office?
I can see why you could be concerned about this. My experience has been fairly positive with disclosing that to people. Where I worry is when you disclose that you’re still in the reserves as there’s the ongoing obligation. However, in your case, if you overtly hide military experience, you run the risk of being hurt by not reporting a job, not because it was the military. Military service is protected (though I do appreciate how reality can not reflect the law), however I think if they discovered you were in the military through a background check, they may have grounds to not hire you for being dishonest
Did you fight for russia against Ukraine? If not you are good
There are so, so many vets on the street. Friends with several. Military service and being a little older is almost universally seen as a positive. Is this a really niche and bizarre troll? Your take on vet status is odd as hell.
You sound like a bum
FK you, talk to me when you finish your school
OP your language sounds like you're from UK/Europe and yeah there isn't as much military benefits here as in the US (culture difference) although there is still definitely veteran programmes at the big banks (I have seen them). I don't know the numbers but one would assume that you have the same leg up as black people/women as they are the only other group with specific programs.
From U.K., my experience was seen as a huge positive. No idea what he’s on about tbqh
Sounds like you’re just not performing well in interviews and don’t have the academic background to compete and instead coming up with excuses. You’re coming from a non-target and the foreign students are likely coming from the top schools in their respective countries which are highly competitive.
Nope, i never consider foreign kids from top schools as my competitor. It’s the ones who also went to non targets and got more offers with equal performance in interviews upset me. I would say that 8 out of 10 times I will pass all my technicals and they give the offer to a younger candidate. It sounds like you are having a hard time to believe that being a veteran sometimes is a disadvantage in the job market, but this is that part of reality of the society that is not being seen by most of people.
The kid I mentioned in HF recruiting literally went to a no name Chinese uni and did a master at a MFE program that’s prolly ranked at 20th at best.
this is hilarious. we now have diversity candidates (military is diversity / quota program) complaining they aren't getting the looks because of some "not my diversity" angle.
The military guys I have worked with are either zeroes or above-average, there's no in between. Might be something with how your discuss your background and behavioral evaluation.
Work on you and your story - most likely issue - guys with visa sponsorship concerns are actively in a deep hole for recruiting (most firms don't sponsor large numbers or take the lottery risk since they might have to bounce after 1/2 yrs)
Guys I'm half native american cherokee and half black, thinking about going full on white chicks costume to hide this for my 1st round interviews tomorrow to increase my chances of getting the job. Do you think this is a good idea?
Should be both tbh, hours matter too.
Depends…which country did you fight for?
It's absolutely not a disadvantage, and usually an advantage. Many (not all) banks actually count veterans towards their diversity quotas. That's not to say that you might not run across some random nutjob who hates the military but they're very rare in the population at large in the US and even more rare in finance. If you're a reservist, that may be causing issues in getting hired--which is explicitly illegal but happens and is almost impossible to prove--but it doesn't sound like that's the case. Continental Europe probably doesn't have the same boost for veterans that the US does but it won't hurt you, UK/Canada/Australia are probably somewhere in the middle.
Your grammar and syntax don't sound like a native English speaker, did you grow up in another part of the world and if so did you serve in the US military or that of another country? I'm not certain on this but I believe if you served in the armed forces of an allied country (a NATO country, Australia, Japan, etc) you should be eligible for veteran hiring programs at many banks.
I'm talking about banks' FO, prop trading and HF recruiting, it's a different story out there
Bro I'm a veteran and work in CB housed under IB and work closely with the IB teams, it's 100% an advantage in hiring and I'd be shocked if the same isn't true in the other 2 paths you mentioned. I don't know anything about prop trading but there are a number of veterans working in HFs (even a few that are veteran owned) and tons in FO roles.
Note that I said it's an "advantage", not an automatic guaranteed job. You still have to be qualified, present a good resume, network, and do well in the interviews. I obviously don't know you so maybe talking out of my ass but based on your posts in this thread my bet is that you're coming across as combative in interviews.
I think it's obvious from this question why you can't get interviews. Hope your brain damage gets better, and thank you for your service.
speaking from someone who can't even pass 1st round of technical for my job and prolly never learned anything past college algebra, gl on your msf search for your future BO audit job!
Imagine making fun of audit when you’re literally in a bank’s risk department lol
Don't work in the HF / quant space and don't really have many friends who do but I have never heard of anybody in Finance view military experience as a negative. I'd be shocked to hear of somebody having an offer revoked by not disclosing that they were a veteran (as long as they didn't lie or create a fake position to fill in that gap in work exp). Otherwise they'd be at huge risk of being sued to kingdom come.
Even if it were an issue, based purely on reading your responses here, you don't come across as well, the most pleasant person to be around. Maybe that comes across in interviews?
When random ppl start to insult you out of blue under a question you post about a situation that they have never exposed to in their lives, it's hard to stay as "the most pleasant person to be around", right?
Not really - this is a forum of goobers and more comments are from the BMO and Truist gang vs. GS, etc.
look at that massive GS thread where only ~3 people had info on their layoffs
After reading all of your responses, there seems to be a problem with your attitude or perhaps behavioral fit. You keep trying to externalize the reasons why you aren't getting a job, even going so far as to blame international students, which frankly makes no sense because hiring international students is more of a process than hiring domestic. I would take a good look at how you're performing in interviews, how you're talking about your experience in your resume and the work that you're doing in terms of networking. You keep pointing to "this average kid at my program got a look and I didn't" then maybe instead of whining on WSO about how there's some hidden agenda, you can talk to people in your program and ask what they're doing differently. To echo what most everyone else said here, being a veteran is treated as a special recruiting group in most places, and is a 100% an advantage in recruiting. Either you aren't a good fit and lack the necessary background, or you are leveraging your experience poorly in your resume and interviews.
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