Coming from Pure Mathematics
I have just graduated in an M.Sc. program at a "regular" university. My specialization is in Number Theory which is essentially abstract mathematics with applications. I have taken accounting courses and finance courses during my undergrad. I have an A average through all the courses I have taken.
I guess my question is... is it possible I land a job as an Analyst? Or something in the finance industry? I'm fairly open to different areas.
My concern is that employers will think my background is not sufficient. To avoid this, I'm studying for the CFA exam at the moment. I'm also very close to obtaining an accounting designation as well.
I have looked at the quantitative material in the CFA program from Level 1 and Level 2 (Level 3 does not have that section) and so far it's pretty basic mathematics. Also, I have taken Financial Engineering and again the mathematics was basic. It was introductory stuff what you can learn in year 1. Of course, I'm not naive and well aware there are advanced topics in finance.
Anyways, what can I do to enhance my qualifications without going back to school again...? As I said, I'm near the end of an accounting designation and will go into accounting as a fall back. I personally rather crunch some numbers in the finance industry.
What do you think? Chance or no?
Note: Because of my M.Sc. I do not qualify for many campus recruitment programs.
On another note, I am also considered disabled. I don't think so but according to the "rules" I am. I have a severe impairment which has not affected my speech or hearing (hearing aids).
I notice that companies want to hire "disabled" people to diversify the environment. Currently, I do not note this condition if they ask.
And I have done a tremendous amount of volunteer hours, sports, events, and everything. I have mentored students. I have represented my univeristy at various conferences and fairs (i.e. no one notices my hearing impairment). And I have also worked as a Teaching Assistant for seminars in mathematics beginning in 3rd year!
1.) Can you code? If so, in what languages? 2.) Do you have any past work experience?
1) Visual Basics and Maple. I know the basics for C++ and Java. Learning code is not a problem depending on what you want to do. Writing algorithms is not a problem.
2) Accounting Clerk for one year and Research Assistant where I wrote an algorithm to solve certain math problems.
That's all I got.
If you can write algos look at prop shops in the Chicago area. Generally, grad level mathematicians who can code are the most highly sought commodity from a financial industry employer perspective. F500 should be a slam dunk, if you want to go with a lighter schedule. You're overqualified for an analyst gig, you could apply as an associate but quants are a much more marketable product. I would think that IB would be intellectually depressing for you. Just some thoughts...
That's what I keep thinking. So I look higher up but they all require experience hence I've been thinking about cold e-mailing some people soon.
But where to get a position as a Quant?
What should I study in the meantime?
What about public papers? I believe I have an algorithm that is publishable. My supervisor told me to submit it but I never bothered. I did it for fun. Who knows I might just to amp up my resume.
Thanks for the advice so far.
Ok, bro. First off, use the search function in the upper right hand corner. Generally, the only thing people worry about when hiring quants (which you are already whether you know it or not) is that they are way too linear/lab rat in their thinking. Little simple stuff like using the search function is often beyond your reach, but you write algorithms that 99% of the rest of us can't even fathom.
The name of the game for you should be research, read some books on the subject. Essentially, ALL trading today with the exception of guys who were in the game 10+ years ago is done by or with the direction/supervision of math men like yourself. So what you should do in the meantime is learn a little bit about markets and the different specific areas that are out there. You can do this on your own, you don't need any help. Look at different products, contract types, quantitative methods used in valuation, etc...
With a masters in pure math and you're own theorems you should be attractive to pretty much every single prop shop hiring, if I were you I'd also think way outside the scope of finance as getting a government grant, working for a think tank or any of a million other possibilities is available to you. I honestly think most shops would at least want to look at you if you presented the skills you mentioned having in an adequate light.
DO NOT under any circumstances publish anything for fun. Talk to a lawyer first, if it has any valuation metric potential, do not just let people see it. Trading strategies are worth billions, so if you may have possibly stumbled on to one, you sure don't want to just spit it out there.
My advice is to start out slow by looking at the markets daily, see what you see. Apply some of what you've learned, trade a little, if you have cash trade a live account, see if it's for you. At worst, if you find you don't have the stomach for it you can always just write algorithms. That pays extremely well and will always be in demand.
I'm happy to answer any other questions, but you should be fine with this. There's a thread somewhere that lists the top trading firms. Look it up and then go down the list. Good luck.
How can you be overqualified for analyst gig in IBD/S&T with a masters in maths?
I thought quants all come from Ivy-level universities? OP said he came from a "regular" college, won't that be an issue?
post your resume
If you're interested in quant, here are a few random points that came to my mind after reading your situation:
Masters does not make you eligible for an associate position in Quant - only PhDs and experienced hires qualify for this. You'll mostly enter as a 1st or 2nd year analyst.
Learn C++ really well and also start picking up Matlab/R. This will prove invaluable. Math will impress people, but inability to code in C++ and/or Matlab will be a deal-breaker for any half-decent quant job. The reason is that any mathematical model needs to be implemented in code to start being productive, and programming is hard to teach on the fly. There are already tonnes of mathematically qualified people who're good at programming (think all CS, EE majors e.t.c.).
Publish! Discussing a published paper in an interview is a HUGE plus. The problem with unpublished work is that noone can verify it. A publication also serves the additional purpose of an official reference certifying your credibility in math/cs.
What to do in the meantime? read above paragraph.
What about a Masters in Financial Engineering?
Not at my firm. My friends at other firms tell me it's the same with their quant groups. I'm sure there a few exceptions to this though (less rigid firm hierarchy or truly stellar candidate). That said, there's a good chance MFE/MS will put you on the fast track for promotion to Associate.
I can write algorithms in C++. That's not a problem. I can write them in Mathematica, Excel, Maple, Java, Visual Basics and GAP (algebra based). I don't see what's so hard in writing algorithms. I've written some tough algorithms before so in general I think I'm fine.
My undergrade is actually mathematics with computers.
Keep in mind that I'm talking pure mathematics. I never used a calculator for the past 5 years or so of schooling. Calculus doesn't need a calculator or Linear Algebra. Only class that really need a calculator was Statistics.
I don't see many Quant jobs posted... in Canada.
If you're very comfortable with programming, then good - more power to you. Also, programming isn't just about writing the algorithm; it's also about understanding a few thousand lines of badly documented code to immediately get a sense of the logic flow. This is pretty important, and people usually won't have time to explain it all to you.
Real quants don't use calculators ;)
I have no clue about quant recruiting in Canada. In US, however, every bank has a Quant research group and an Analytics group (sometimes the same thing). There's also quant at prop firms and AM where you develop algorithms that analyze signals and actually manage assets. There's also risk management (sometimes a part of Analytics), and some other smaller niche groups. The larger firms have structured Quant programs that you can apply to online. The smaller firms (and some smaller groups at larger firms) don't do OCR, so you either need to apply online at the firm's website or get referred.
I might be wrong here, but I'd think the the CFA is a straight waste of your time. Focus your attention on trading trading trading. Why would you spend time studying when you could be discovering the key to a new trading strategy? Time wasted on a worthless CFA is time you'll never have back.
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