Why don’t non target alumni care about helping there alma mater candidates?
I've been through over 10 interview rounds with various firms for full-time investment banking positions and surprisingly I've found that the individuals I had the worst interactions with were all alumni. It makes me wonder why only target schools seem to vigorously support their candidates in securing positions.
I 100% agree, i had not the best interactions with alumni. I would assume it is because the few alumni that get back to everyone are sick of talking with kids who have the same story and experience at school. The best conversations that I had were with bankers who had the same interests as me like the sports I played and the activities we both liked. these convos usually go better as u can bond on a topic other than bonding on just being from the same school. try to reach out to ppl who also share interests, hope this helps
I don’t have understand how going to the same school would lead to having the same story?
I don’t have understand how going to the same school would lead to having the same story?
I don’t have understand how going to the same school would lead to having the same story?
I am just generalizing, but most people have similar tell me about yourselfs from the same school
I think it depends on the school. If you are at Harvard for example that attracts people from everywhere. The stories are going to be very different. If you are attending University of Alabama, the stories are all going to be pretty similar.
Maybe they got tired of kids expecting them to help just because they are alumni
So why do target schools alumni not get tired of helping out there schools candidates ???
They hardly even have to help those mfs considering they have their own oncampus recruiting events
When you come from a shit school you tend to be a bit suspicious about candidates coming from shit schools because you know how shitty your school was
signed: a shit school alumni
Lol suspicious of what? Are they teaching math and English differently at these “target schools”
Coming from a non-target, the overall percentage of students that are lower quality are higher than target schools so I assume OP of comment was referring to the higher chance of a lower quality candidate.
You might not like this answer, but I think you're overestimating people's general willingness to stick their neck out for strangers in the hiring process. Especially at the junior level, you really don't have much to gain from going to bat for someone you've had a few networking calls with. If I had time, I was always happy to share my experience, provide guidance, and be a sounding board but it pretty much stopped there. Maybe I'll just speak for myself but I had enough to worry about as a junior banker to not want to take on a possible liability.
You seem pretty convinced that target alumni aren't like that and maybe the answer is in the fact that the target vs. non-target classification exists in the first place. If you vouch for a harvard kid and it doesn't work out, oh well, you could argue it was their spot to lose anyway. If you vouch for community college kid and it doesn't work out, you're in a shit position.
FWIW, I'm a non-target so I'm not saying I'm pumped about that dynamic. Just trying to speculate on an answer to your question.
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Can't speak for everyone because people are different, but I feel like some non-target individuals take their pride in being 'the one that managed to break in' and can perceive other non-target alumni as being dangerous for their success (like it's a mixture of jelousy/low self-confidence which results in fear that others breaking in will undermine their own success as this will make it less outstanding). Not sure if it's clear but I feel like this also depends on the nationality, especially when I think of continental Europe.
This.
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Non Targets are the idiots? Most target kids come into this industry with an art history background. Most of the non targets at least have an accounting and finance background. Also, have you met a target MBA Associate from an M7? Most of them are dumpster fires. Yet the banks love to hire them. There are so many discussions on this site about this.
The reason why some non targets do not help alum or put ridiculous requirements for their non target alum is because they are hardos that simp for there target school coworkers even if it is undeserved. Most non targets are not like this but you get a few bad apples.
Case in point, the title of this thread: "Why Don’t Non Target Alumni Care About Helping There Alma Mater Candidates?"
Correcting my grammar past 10 pm on a Thursday? I guarantee you've never been laid.
Could it be possible they just didn't like you? You seem very pretentious and that you're entitled to their help, spoiler: you aren't. I'm also a non target but have had no difficulty getting help from alumni.
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Extremely entitled answer you just gave. Not surprised you aren’t receiving help. You went to a non target, you better make up for that by being humble and having grit. You definitely don’t have humility.
for context: I also went to a non target and am recruiting, a good portion of my alumni are considered diversity and I haven’t had a problem getting a resume push or extra connections. It’s all about how you present yourself. What you do in the future is a reflection on them if they were to vouch for you. Have had about 20 networking calls in the past week and almost every single one has resulted in my resume being pushed or the person connecting me with others. Reflect inwardly before pointing the finger.
I’ve had a few from my state school reach out and I’ve found that it’s generally a waste of time getting on the phone and offering advice. There’s an unsaid expectation that since you both went to the non-target, the pressure for you to help give them a job is higher and that turns people off.
"Why don't they care about helping there alma mater candidates?"
Two grammar errors in a short title. I see why you weren't at a target or even a semi.
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I don't think this is a non-target-exclusive thing. I go to one of the ivies, and no one goes out of their way to help, honestly. If a school is a target school, people either think you don't need help because you go to a target school or are too much of a snob to help their own as they believe they are superior with their job. People will do chats from time to time but very rarely will push your resume unless you are good. Had many more experiences where people just gatekeep to be honest.
100%. I come from a target too and feel the same.
What do you mean by gatekeep?
I had alum say shit like oh my firm only takes people who are in even greater target schools like Harvard like wtf. Some people are mentally ill and say that stuff to make themselves look good.
Non-target analyst who recently got riffed here. I have had some good conversations with Alumni, but agree to a certain extent. I know the lateral market is shit right now, but this post got me thinking:
Is the fact that I got riffed affecting perception of me given I am a non-target?
I know I am a great analyst. I got sick with long COVID-19 this past year which ended in my work quality being about B-grade for some of the year, but I brought it back at the end.
Sometimes I can't help but feel I'm being shut out. But could very well just be the market. Both Alumni and Non-alumni may just not want to waste time if there is a hiring freeze.
I am a non target that broke in and frequently field calls and coffee chats with kids looking to follow suit.
The harsh truth is most of these kids don’t seem like they really want it or understand it enough to justify me advancing their candidacy. Hiring committee is pretty meritorious and tough to get even the best candidates through who look superfluously good on paper. If I am pushing for my guy or gal to get a look, the question naturally arises “why this one and not some other mother’s son/daughter?”. And almost none of these candidates give me the ammo I need to make the case for them.
I can’t tell you the right answers, because then I’m just putting my finger on the scale. If I came across a non target that clearly had a lot of smarts and hunger and humility I would have no problem whatsoever arguing for them to get an interview. But almost invariably what I get is wishy washy “oh hey I want to apply to some unrelated division” or “I want to switch from nonprofit to investment banking” or just general indicators that the candidate lacks intention, seriousness and that special thing which will make them stand out and get them through the wringer.
I think non targets underestimate just how dime a dozen 4.0 gpa club presidents with a patent under their belt are, from Stanford, Harvard, etc…the bar is extremely high. If we just wanted to pick someone out of a hat there is a line about 1000 people long for my group alone and most of those are really accomplished. If you aren’t differentiated on paper (or worse, are below the bar), you need to be shining pretty strongly in other less traditional ways. And most kids if we’re being honest are just enjoying college and not really making this their top priority, which simply isn’t enough to catch anyone’s eye. Makes it look like I’m arbitrarily picking a charity case which is disrespectful to my colleagues who are being objective and will have to work with these people if they end up not being great.
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Would you mind if I PM you?
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I understand your frustration. I had the exact same mindset as you and made similar conclusions. The one situation that stands out is a guy actually blocking my email after speaking with me just once. I didn’t beg for him to talk with me and was respectful of his time - didn’t expect anything from him either. I consider myself a mindful person and made sure I didn’t present myself as desperate or off-putting otherwise. As tactful as I could have been, he wrote me off in the most extreme way. And now I’m fine with it because while I would have never done what he did, I at least understand where at least part of his mind was now that I’m on the other side.
He probably saw higher GPA’s with relevant experience from better schools. Him advocating for me made no sense, and I wasn’t able to impress him enough on the phone. You need to understand that the people you talk to put their judgment on the line when advocating for you. This has real impact to their career at any firm. The bar to clear without any doubt is to make sure you are above and beyond an adequate candidate. You see stories on here about people making it into the industry from non-targets with below 3.0 GPA’s when that’s not the reality for most people. Those people were charismatic, relentless, and potentially not the same tier of non-target as you. There is a difference between a JHU chemistry grad with a 2.9 GPA vs. random state school finance major with the same GPA.
I’ll tell you from personal experience that most candidates have 3.7+ GPAs and have leadership experience. They are mostly well spoken, too. Having commonalities of a low tier school and maybe a passing GPA isn’t inspiring enough for people to advocate for you. If I had achieved near perfect GPA with a scholarship, then I’d probably have converted more alum networking calls.
I write all this to give you better color and not to discourage you. If you have not landed an offer yet, don’t give up and understand that it could take you a couple steps. Hardly anyone meets their expectations for their ideal role out of undergrad.
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