Columbia or Wharton for Undergraduate ?

I was accepted to both Columbia University and UPenn Wharton for undergrad. But I don't know which to pick. Any insights would be great, and please specify whether you have affiliations to either school/acknowledge your biases. Keep the following in mind:

  1. I definitely want to pursue finance/business/entrepreneurship as a career
  2. I could see myself as a teacher much, much later in life
  3. I enjoy the humanities particularly philosophy and political science (although I’d never want to make a career out of either)
  4. Financial aid is practically the same at both institutions and very generous, so that's not a problem
  5. I will most likely try to get an MBA a few years post-undergrad

Thanks!

 

I will take the counter position and say Columbia. I don't think the opportunities are that limited attending Columbia as compared to Wharton, despite what people on this board might say. Columbia is a world class school.

Also, if you are interested in philosophy, you will never have an opportunity again in your life like undergrad that will allow you to study something that interests you for 4 years. My major was pretty heavily loaded with philosophy courses and I think that those were where I "learned" more than any other subject in school. My major never held me back competing with Wharton students or others with much more technical backgrounds, including interviewing at EBs or places that want analysts with strong technical skills. There isn't any magic technical sauce taught in undergrad finance courses that you can't learn on your own for interviewing and preparing for entry level finance positions.

Also, for what it's worth, the curve at Wharton can be pretty extreme and a good number of people who I have worked with who went there for undergrad seemed to wish they had a different undergrad experience.

Ultimately you can't go wrong and fin aid isn't a concern so go where you want, but if I were you I would go to Columbia over Wharton for undergrad. MBA level is a different story.

 

I would choose Columbia if you are interested in liberal arts studies but still want to pursue finance. The reasons are:

1) Much stronger liberal arts university with a mandatory "core" curriculum that strongly emphasizes the classics/humanities disciplines. Caveat: there is a super left-leaning culture and student body at Columbia also, so I hope you have a high tolerance for dealing with liberal nonsense 2) More importantly for finance, you can actually do off-cycle banking / PE internships because you are in the mecca of finance. Great undergraduate jobs board that lets you stay on top of recruiting and internships year-round.
3) OCR is probably just as strong as Wharton, with all BBs / EBs making campus appearances. But, networking is made much easier because YOU'RE IN NYC!

 

As a counter position to the counter position, I would go in with the knowledge that more than half the EBs do not seriously recruit at Columbia whereas Wharton would be their go-to school. I think there is a substantial difference in recruitment prospects between the two schools, as places like Moelis, PJT, GHL, et al. aren't seriously looking at CU.

Evercore, Lazard, and Centerview take 1-2 kids but this is a drop in the bucket compared to their overall class sizes. I think HL takes a couple as well.

 
Kazimierz:

As a counter position to the counter position, I would go in with the knowledge that more than half the EBs do not seriously recruit at Columbia whereas Wharton would be their go-to school. I think there is a substantial difference in recruitment prospects between the two schools, as places like Moelis, PJT, GHL, et al. aren't seriously looking at CU.

Evercore, Lazard, and Centerview take 1-2 kids but this is a drop in the bucket compared to their overall class sizes. I think HL takes a couple as well.

All the BBs as well as Evercore, Lazard, and Centerview recruit at Columbia. I believe Moelis does too. Who cares if PJT and GHL "aren't seriously looking"? Plus, everyone at Wharton is gunning for the same spots. You only need one offer, and there are more than enough opportunities at Columbia... Like the poster above mentioned, the opportunities are 99% similar. The trump card is that you are in New York City for four years. If you can't get a job in finance while going to Columbia and living in NYC for four years, you can't get a job at any school--period.

 

I am a big fan of undergraduate business school is Wharton is without a doubt the best of them. On the other hand, the undergrad b-school curriculum doesn't leave much space for anything non-business related so that's a consideration if you enjoy humanities. Although the job opportunities you will have a both schools are 99% similar, Wharton will give you access to some buyside shops that recruits undergrads.

Location matters too. I would have killed to be in NYC for undergrad, but judging by comments on this board, a lot of people don't view it as attractive an option.

 

As a Wharton student, one takes 40% of the classes outside of wharton. You still have a chance to have a well-founded academic experience and top notch recruiting. Also I would choose Penn CAS Econ over Columbia for the same reason. The Columbia core is limiting in my opinion. Better to have a flexible curriculum and explore courses you are interested in. Also the location does not change much as comparing employment statistics between Penn and Columbia suggests.

 

For the most part, recruiting at both of the schools is the same. But at the top end of the spectrum, opportunities are heavily skewed to Wharton. We are talking the select few undergrad hires at PE groups like Blackstone, Silver Lake, Sankaty, top HFs etc. Wharton is the only serious school these places recruit at (Harvard and Ivey for SLP too, but less so). Also as someone mentioned, some EBs will favor Wharton. You need to decide if you are going to be the freak gunning for these top opportunities (very few are in the running). You should already know if you are that freak by how much you know about finance careers by now and by how obnoxious all your friends think you are.

Because if you aren't gunning for those opportunities and you just want to end up at a BB, even a place like GS/MS/JPM, then Columbia will set you up fine, and there is no real discernible difference IMO.

 

I think in sum, Columbia is a superior opportunity in every way

-More diversity in people than Wharton (finance robots....ugh) -More well-rounded education -Better location -Mostly equal IBD recruitment opps

EXCEPT IF:

-You have your sights aimed at the buyside/PJT/Greenhill/other EBs out of graduation

In which case, take Wharton and don't look back

 
  1. Thanks for the responses; they've helped. I'm wondering now, though: has anybody here gone to Wharton undergrad and felt neutral about it, or thought maybe a more comprehensive education would've been nice?

  2. Excuse my limited knowledge, but do you guys think it'd be possible to make it to firms like Evercore and Moelis out of Columbia (I'm not mentioning Lazard because it seems like the culture there blows)?

  3. Also, can anyone who actually went to Columbia undergrad chime in, briefly say how they felt about the experience, whether or not the Core was death, and where they had options of going out of undergrad?

 
Best Response

I went to Wharton as an undergrad. I enjoyed it, because college is a formative experience and it's impossible to go back and re-imagine those four years in any meaningful way. I think Penn will offer you plenty of opportunities for a well-rounded liberal arts education, even within Wharton. You can do a dual degree or minor in the College, and there are programs like Wharton Research Scholars or Joseph Wharton Scholars that are geared towards people with a liberal arts bent. My favorite classes at Penn, by far, were upper level English seminars.

That said, I am somewhat ambivalent about the culture of Wharton itself, which spills over to the undergraduate population as a whole. I used to browse this site in high school (pre-financial crisis...) and was absolutely certain I wanted to do finance, and then I got into Penn! Serendipitous. I mean, I work in finance now, but what the fuck did 16 year old me really know (not to be patronizing, and not that 16 year old me would have listened to 25 year old me)? I enjoyed my classes and found them interesting in the same way that I find a lot of things interesting (which isn't to say that I want careers in any of those things). I think that's a dilemma you'll find at any school or with any major, but Wharton is an elitist, wealthy, "rah rah finance", competitive program. My decisions/life trajectory are my own, but I do think that environment can be a pressure-cooker (not just academically) and leads a lot of people to sub-optimal outcomes. This is a conversation that came up time and time again with a wide range of people. That sentiment generally cools as you graduate and things work out and the nostalgia settles, but Wharton can be a very tough place. I'd also be weary of relying on anecdotes like:

"We are talking the select few undergrad hires at PE groups like Blackstone, Silver Lake, Sankaty, top HFs etc."

It's not that they're wrong, but we're talking a few handfuls of people in a graduating class of ~600 where most people are generally smart and accomplished. Everyone goes in thinking they're a genius...then you meet an M&T kid who's doing Biomedical Engineering with a 3.9 who somehow lives at Smokes. Which isn't to say that you won't be competitive for Silver Lake, but you probably won't be and you will be humbled at some point. It's not like everyone walks out of Penn with a BB or MBB job (far from it). I want to be like "This point is SO marginal that you shouldn't care about it unless you're truly a top tier student" but of course everyone who just got into Wharton/Columbia will consider themselves a top tier student until one day they aren't.

Honestly, just visit the schools and pick the one you like more.

Array
 

Damn it TurquoiseHexagon that was really, really insightful. I do plan on revisiting soon. And correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like: you enjoyed your time at Penn and at the same time felt like a different school might not have been a bad idea?

 
ConfusedIntellectual:

Damn it TurquoiseHexagon that was really, really insightful. I do plan on revisiting soon. And correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like: you enjoyed your time at Penn and at the same time felt like a different school might not have been a bad idea?

Sure, but the amount of time I've spent seriously thinking about life at a different school is Lazard takes 3 more interns." I mean maybe you'll be wrong (lol) but that's just life. Hindsight isn't 20/20.

Array
 

It's kinda pointless to base your decision on if Evercore/HL/Lazard/Greenhill/Moelis/Centerview recruit at the school. I go to Stern and other than Evercore who recruits aggressively, all of these banks really only take 2-4 students per year each out of a class of 600.

While some of these places may not officially recruit at Columbia if you put in the effort you can end up there easily since Columbia should have enough of a network to have alumni at all of these shops. I do agree with one of the posters above though that if you can't get a finance job while going to a school in NYC like Columbia then it's not the school.

Pick based on where you fit in better, which curriculum you like better, and where you think you will do your best!

 

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