Double standards in Diversity recruiting, When is Enough, Enough?
I’m a first-year associate at a BB, so I’ve been in the game for a couple of years now. I’ve seen the impact of diversity recruiting, and let me just say I was never against nor for it. Did I think it was unfair? Sure, but I always figured the people complaining about it were just making excuses for not getting the offer. My mindset was, if you’re good enough, you’ll land somewhere eventually. Life isn’t fair, and sometimes you just have to deal with it.
But recently, something happened that made me rethink things. Over the summer, I was walking around the floor during the internship program and overheard a female MD on a call saying something like: “There aren’t enough girls here. They hired too many men, They should’ve hired more girls, seems like recruiting was unfair this time round.” (Went on like this 5 minutes straight). Keep in mind everyone around her could also hear this and no one said a word.
For context, the class was already about 60/40 men to women. It wasn’t like the interns were overwhelmingly male or anything. But can you imagine if a man had said the reverse? “There aren’t enough men here; they hired too many women.” That guy would’ve been fired on the spot. No questions asked.
The double standard is almost ridiculous at this point We’re supposed to be hiring the best talent, full stop. When hiring decisions get based on anything other than merit, it starts to chip away at what made this industry so competitive in the first place.
EDIT: I noticed some people in the comments saying that this never happened and I’m unable to reply on Anon. All I’ll say is the fact that you don’t believe it happened shows how ridiculous it really is. Anyway I’m glad that you think it’s so stupid that it didn’t happen just shows the absurdity of what happened here.
Woke retards deserve a special place in hell (even though I'm diversity)
I wonder what would happen if people like that MD you described were made accountable and staffed almost exclusively with diversity hires and responsible for their mentorship. I imagine they would either change their mindset about mindlessly hiring people once their work days start getting blown up from hiring unqualified people or they would training people better. Probably the former.
Most of these female MDs are below average performers just there to ensure group head meets their DEI target and collects their 7-figure bonus. Their bosses don’t care about their performance as long as they do bare minimum. They will parade these female MDs at conferences, industry events and board meetings, hence, ensuring that group heads are perceived as diversity supporters.
Modus Operandi of these Group Heads / MDs is to insert these female juniors into value-worthy deals where they are glorified coordinators (guest appearances) for the large part while key work streams are handled by male A&As. This is how they build their profile and when it comes to bonus and promotions, MDs exaggerate their contributions for personal gains. It is a rigged game.
Can confirm this.
I know a senior guy who was going to attend a meeting and asked his VP to join, but told the associate (who prepared the materials) that he doesn't need to join. He then proceeded to walk around the floor looking around, and then asked a young female analyst (who doesn't know anything about the deal) to join the meeting and to pass the decks to everyone in the meeting when told to do so, telling her it's good for her exposure. Both the VP and associate were male.
Also know of another law firm partner who had a reputation to bring along the best dressed female associates to client meetings.
At least with Trump coming in, there is a possibility that something will be done about it.
DEI hiring is a garbage dumpster at this point. They are enforcing 50% female gender quota in hiring and promotions with main beneficiaries being white women. It was never about equality, it was about gaining power, and now being a female in finance is a privilege which needs to be curtailed unless justified by performance.
no actually private high school + white sorority becky is the paragon of diversity
It’s evident that major beneficiaries of gender quotas are white women. You will notice the odd WoC here and there but overwhelmingly it’s white Beckys
Not just them but also privileged Asian girls who are dumb as a rock for the most part. Seriously embarrassing and I really feel sorry for Asian dudes who are significantly more capable than your average Asian girl
Just to be clear, may be there are some who are still confused, the only diversity HR cares about and is actively implementing is gender one.
Yeah exactly this. I mean even assuming they had good intentions, they’re going about it the wrong way (even assuming that the issue of not enough woman in finance exists in the first place). Like why wouldn’t you just try to raise awareness for finance as a career path it’s not like a lot of these woman are underprivileged anyways so they have the brainpower and resources to decide themselves if they actually want to apply instead of giving them an unfair advantage.
It’s painfully obvious that the banks don’t even actually care about DEI because if they did the only diversity candidates would be from lower socio economic backgrounds (regardless of race/gender) and even that I would argue is unfair because if they really did care about that they’d invest in those communities, provide scholarships for underprivileged kids and then give them the opportunity instead of a handout.
I don’t know if they’re virtue signalling or what because who actually cares about DEI aside from a few woke college kids who either won’t apply for IB or don’t have the grit to make it in the industry.
Had a coffee with DEI lead of a top BB some time back. She confided that all this push for gender targets is due to multiple charters that banks have signed with governments especially in EU, in return for favourable grants and bailouts. In US, they are implementing gender quotas despite being unconstitutional. Look at how CFO / CEOs are committing to gender targets like 50% senior roles will be filled by females by 2027 or 40% of the BoD needs to be female. This is an agenda driven by liberal / democrat govts. Take Canada for example, 25% of elected representatives are female yet 50% of cabinet is female. Anybody that advocates and implements gender quotas loves building incompetent teams and is doing so out of vested interest. MS / Alphabet / Tesla have all fired their DEI teams. Elon even got rid of DEI references from Tesla’s annual reports.
This is what you get for doing A2A habibi
come HF, markets eat DEI hires for breakfast
Good meme
You have to see how bad it is at the MBA associate recruiting. On top of the usual suspects (white beckys and not-so-bright Asian girls), you also have vets and dark-colored candidates getting the heads up. To be fair, I'm ok with giving the vets a push (justified IMO), but I see no reason to fill classes with women from random backgrounds who don't perform well on the job (it's become self-inforcing in that these women simply give bad rep to other qualified women trying to enter IB)
As a South Asian dude, I wish this was actually true....
It's been tough to break into IB and I went to a target school.
Vets are not diversity hires IMO. That implies that they don't meet the bar and need 'help' to get the job. Biggest grinders I know are ex-military to M7.
They are getting a huge advantage during recruiting. Not saying it's wrong, because IMO they do deserve such a "push". But you can't ignore the fact that they get a substantial boost during recruiting
For a lot of MBA recruiting, vets do get preferential treatment vs. their non-diversity peers. I had a vet classmate or two who admitted they felt it was a cheat code.
Did my SA this summer at a group that can be categorized as top (GS FIG). To this day some of the analysts don't know how the diversity MBA summer associates got return offers or the internship to begin with.
Just call them out. No need to sugarcoat. It’s the female MBA Summers
IYKYK
CBS + W lol...
Why is this thread off-topic now? It should be in the main IB forum ffs
Love to see the awakening :')
Edit: dei 🤡s cry
Feels like things are starting to swing back into a little bit more balance in the US but some of the tone deaf public comments from banks/companies in Europe are astonishing.
My firm had a small RIF in the Fall and majority of those let go were women who were underperforming and disengaged with this grind. It was refreshing to see the bank act in a meritocratic way.. finally… for the first time in like 8 years.
The sad part is these ladies are already batting away interviews and offers at firms that are a clear tier above their last role. My white male hetero friends who were let go 6, 9 and 13 months ago are struggling to get interviews anywhere.
I'll take "Things That Never Happened" for $400, Ken!
Most likely, the story did not happen but saying diversity sucks has to be the easiest way to get silver bananas on this site. I am surprised that women are the target here because usually it is the black people who are the subject of these rants. The majority of people on this site want a system based 100% on meritocracy but of course, they rarely talk about nepo hires because the undeserving wealthy people are useful idiots. Instead of ranting about diversity, they should just appreciate the United States giving them the opportunity get into good schools and to get good jobs.
Yeah. Well, WSO is full of snowflakes who are constitutionally incapable of realizing they aren't special or unique and have no real redeeming qualities, so they blame others instead. After all, that's the American way! If I didn't get something I want, it's because someone else took it from me.
And 100% agree about the laughable hypocrisy of every idiot troll complaining about diversity hires but being totally silent on nepotism as a problem. After all, why blame a rich person when you can punch down at a woman or a minority instead?
Obviously, for a BB intern class to be 40% female requires huge favoritism toward females. The resume drop was probably no more than 10% female.
The firm wants the best talent with the caveat that some clients (especially institutional investors) care about diversity numbers and will penalize a bank for not hitting them.
Another reason for diversity hiring is that individual decisionmakers with sway over the process benefit personally. That female MD you mentioned personally benefits from perpetuating the narrative that there aren't enough women in banking, and that women "have it so hard" etc. Same for the leaders of HR and others with a personal stake or opinion in the matter.
A friend of mine is a national champion racer and suddenly after an accident, his family stops him from participating anymore which will affect his mental health because he wants to continue so he is struggling between family and passion.
Is there anyone else in this lobby who has faced the same kind of situation? On what side does he have to choose between family and passion?
What kind of racer
Oh wow white boys complaining about everyone else again. Y'all had preferential treatment since forever and now against helping others catch up.
People are either going to work within a system that corrects, or they'll work against that system. But they're not going to "stay in their place" below you.
"System that corrects" is a hell of a euphemism for a race-based system.
Weird that you'd think anyone would believe a dumb talking point like that. Save it for the goobers, bruh.
Incredibly racist
While I am sure some white people here are opposed to diversity, most people who complain about diversity on this site are not white.
LOL bullshit
"It is what it is", "Ah I don't really care, I'm focused on my grind". People who take an indifferent attitude towards this will see eventually that there is a cost to being apolitical. It will fuck you too eventually and it'll be too late. One day during your "grind" you'll be gunning for an executive position or board seat and see it go to someone less qualified. We'll see how you feel then. Glad to see people like OP waking up.
At the very minimum, please just vote in important elections.
I'm curious: wouldn't DEI be technically considered as the market working and dictating what it wants and values more?
Technically yh—our gripes are that wokeness is wrong (which is unrelated to markets & banking)
Time to go band4band on diversity recruiting
The DEI mandate has kept too many qualified people from helping firms succeed and deliver quality work, potentially costing institutions money through lower quality product/service/coverage. Just hire the best. I feel like it's really that simple. If the best ends up being one race or gender, then cry about it. The best deliver the best, period. Neither race nor gender should be considered whatsoever. And nepotism related situations should invoke identical, if not more strenuous hiring processes.
Agree with this, and I’m not against encouraging minorities to apply. But if you really cared invest in their communities, scholarship programs for minorities, go and speak at their schools and give them the same platform that everyone else has instead of saying yeah 20% of interns have to be Diversity.
.
Literally all of the worst analysts in my group are white women with rich parents.
How do you know they are not nepo hires?
Victim class get to say whatever tf they want with no consequences
Me when women get into better colleges after going to female dominated high school then on average are graduating college more and also outearning men, but still getting diversity programs: :)
”What’s wrong guys you don’t want more pussy in the bullpen” - white guy who recruited circa 08’
For a certain subset of DEI hires (where they wouldn’t have been hired if it weren’t for a certain immutable characteristic), there are literally different standards between straight white/asian males and women for
1) getting in: the number of applications from men are much higher relative to number of spots for men, meaning women applicants are quite literally held to a lower standard in terms of resume/qualifications and have a much higher acceptance rate
2) expectations on the job: there’s plenty of DEI hires who don’t pull their weight in terms of work quality, are on a fraction of the deals and have a fraction of the work output. I’ve seen some ridiculous cases where they push back on new staffings and end up working 40-50 hours a week, never work late or weekends etc. And nothing ever happens to them and they are the least likely to get RIFd and the most likely to get promoted. And they are fully aware of it.
While the few competent A/As work 7 days a week and get crushed doing all the work. And when bonus season comes around, the gap between the two groups is nonexistent or minimal because the bank can’t be seen as discriminating.
How can this not be considered discrimination against white/asian men?
why is everything done to its most comical extreme in North America?
The obsession continues.
You’re an idiot. People have every right to be upset, especially the Asian guy. After opening social media and seeing a cluster fuck of hate on him, having to navigate a foreign cultural institution better than natives and deal with dumbass white Becky teachers while getting 300 points higher on the sat than some black kid, they come to college and their chance to make the American dream comes true gets destroyed by white Becky who got an offer before non div even kicked off. But no your right bro, shit that can be life altering like getting out of high finance is not a big deal, in fact your right let’s not be obsessed YOU give your job to white girl from Exeter, no need to be obsessed.
Ah yes, another angry virgin on the internet. How unique.
Okay, white Beckys take 50%; you simply are not good enough to be among the white straight males who make up 35% or 45% of the class—blame yourself. I understand your frustration—yes—but, on some level nothing is theoretically wrong with heavy nepotism & hiring in line with what will draw more capital from governments & investors who are unfortunately pushing for DEI nonsense; but you have to lock in & understand that you are not the only one the world is unfair to—quit the whining & attempt the MBA pathway if college doesn't work immediately; life is long-enough as a marathon race that you may not necessarily be handicapped by the first 50m failure of not getting your desired role immediately after graduation.
There are also many who are smarter than the smartest Asian, would qualify for DEI due to immutable characteristics, but are automatically excluded from the race because they end up born within a country where valueless currency makes it impossible to take the First World tests for which you're boasting about your Asian scores.
There are many for whom the loss of a family member damages an aspect of personal logistics so badly that they can't even be present in the race that you claim DEI has rigged against you. If you're as smart as you say you are—you would get into quant HF, instead of chasing after IQ-damaging IB.
Accept that DEI is an integral part of the 21st century game that companies have to play to maximize their own profit (& adjust your definition of "merit" & "best results / optimal hiring practices" accordingly)
Imagine (assuming you’re a white male) being so coddled and entitled that being the preferential hire for 248 years just wasn’t enough for you. You now have to post to a platform geared towards helping future finance professionals achieve professional success, about how girls are getting hired. Then imagine thinking that a woman MD would want someone that thinks like you as a coworker! Haha man you dudes are pitiful, keep crying about women and other marginalized folks attempting to climb the corporate ladder, the same ladder white men have been “climbing” unencumbered for 248 years 😂. What a wasteful existence 😂😂😂
Becky - clearly, you don’t get it. Women, especially white women, have done nothing to warrant that 50% quota in hiring and promotions. You have not faced the social / economic challenges of racial communities yet you are main beneficiary of DEI as banks prioritize gender diversity mainly. You make a deliberate attempt to demonize white males to seek common ground with racial minorities and make it seem that we have a common enemy which is beyond hypocrisy as you are the most privileged member of this society aka white Becky. WoC don’t need your patronization. As a principle, we are against all gender and racial quotas. Drop this victim mindset, and unlike racial minorities like black / hispanics and lgbtq, you are under represented not because of discrimination but because of a lack of drive and tenacity, which is a given when you are top of the food chain from a racial spectrum.
Moreover, in those 248 years of preferential treatment, you were an accomplice and economic beneficiary given you were related or dependent on the same white males for provision in one way or the other for which you have contempt today.
Yes that's right, shit on everyone, make sure you have no allies left. You win more flies with honey, but you know what, fuckit. Call everyone a white devil, tell them how you really feel.....just don't act all surprised at what they come back with.
Ya'll 15% of the population, and women and latinos just voted for a blatant racist
Consider your position carefully
(written in Futurama Professor's voice) 2nd Year Associate you say? Been in the game for a while you say?
What is that? 3 years? ....4 max? All at the same job at the same unit of the same company? Correct? And......you earnestly think that's enough time to have perspective on the net effect of policy designed to offset 500 years of discrimination across the entire industry and civilization? You think that all civilization level wrongs have been completely righted, and now, white men are the oppressed class struggling in a world totally dominated by blacks (and god forbid, women)?
That's your pitch, right?
Shut the fuck up.
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